The Gut-Brain Connection and Healing Trauma | with Christoffel Sneijders

Michael: What's up, Unbroken Nation? Welcome back to another episode. I'm super excited to be here with you. Christoffel, my friend, welcome, I'm very excited because you've written this incredible book, Relationships? Which Brain Is Talking? And, you have this concept about the three brains, which we're going to get into, which I actually am really a fan of, because I think that most people don't recognize that we are a symbiosis of head, heart, hands, guts, emotions, love, and everything in between.

But before we get in there, there's always a path to somebody to write a book like that. I can't help, but think, man, there's a journey here. So I'd love to start off. Tell us about your childhood. What was it like growing up? What was your experience as a kid? That's led you to where you are today.

Christoffel: It's a beautiful question, I think about the childhood. You can look from different perspectives. What happens, how do you perceive it now? What did you perceive when you were, say, as a child, huh? If I look back at it now, from my age now, and I look back, and I say, you had a beautiful childhood because you had a mom who loves you dearly, and dearly a dad who loves you dearly. Yeah, that was good. And if you then look, say, a little bit deeper, you say, okay, my mom was four years in prison camp in the Second World War, so I brought her traumas back home. My dad was always searching for, hey, I have a lot of intelligence, a lot of things to bring, but I cannot find it, say, in the job where I can find passion in. So in the family situation, you also saw something like a little dance together. How do we all deal with each other? And you don't notice it when you're a child, as a child, you think life is how it is. And later on, I came aware from, hey, I always will say that empathic, high sensitive person. I've been there from day one, but I noticed also say how the family situation was running. Sorry, meaning if you spent as a child from eight to 12 in a prison camp in the Second World War, and she was in Indonesia, was sent back to the Netherlands to live with her 14, and you miss your own childhood, people dying around you, you die almost a couple of times, you bring that back in your family situation. So a mom is an extremely loving mom, but also has an extreme need of getting a validation and her time and her things done. It's also almost like sometimes the child's role in the family, knowing what I know now. So that means in a family situation, you always often, okay, we have to think about how we deal with how we deal, how you communicate and don't communicate. And it may say later in life, it gave so many answers why you do what you do. And now my mom is 89, still alive. So in that part, really amazing, and now she's in AIDS care center and you still see it there when she's there, it's about her. Yeah. Thank you. Yeah, because she missed it and she would still say, no, I do this because I was in a prison camp 80 years ago. And of course it makes totally sense, but you see that gives them huge pressure also on the family situation. So I would say you see it from two sides. The really loving and caring parents who always said to me, you're good enough, now that's freaking amazing for your self esteem. On the other hand, you live in a family situation that is say, really tense, because you really have to be aware of what's happening, not happening, and knowing that actually, your voice is less heard. So I came aware, hey, if I'm empathic and listen to everybody's needs, I fit in. The moment I like to be number one or something else, then it hits somewhere, the frustrations of your parents who are dealing with their own issues, I think we all have that somewhere. And for me it came, okay, it makes me also aware, while in later life, I was good, say, in sales or being a coach or therapist. Of course, I'm totally from day one, in tuned, I tune in into other people. Needs and forget your own needs. And so when I got the burnout 20 years ago, it made sense because I was trying to please everybody else against my own detriment, because that was somewhere where you learn and think, Oh, wow, it fits in so beautifully. I start laughing about it now on that moment, of course, not now I think, Oh, wow. That's interesting in my role as coach, therapist and what I do, okay. I can see what's happening.

Michael: Yeah, that's such a big part of the journey as I, whenever I'm with my clients, I try to teach them the same thing I'm in every day. And it's know thyself. Can you understand who you are at depth and most and probably even more importantly, can you understand how you got to the way that you are and generationally, if you look at it, most research points to we carry DNA from 7 to 10 generations before us, it's like you have that in you. And whether you like it or not, there, there is the stress of your mother growing up in dealing with these in prison camps from 8 to 12. There's the stress of the experiences of your father, their parents, and so on and so forth for maybe 500 years in the past, which God knows what happened then between wars and slavery and murders and genocides and famines and all of these things. And yet we look at society today, and I don't think we take into consideration enough how important it is to be aware of that. Now you, obviously you alluded to when you were younger, you were like, I have no idea. I didn't have the words for this, I didn't understand it, and most people don't, and when I look at my journey now, being in the position I am if you asked me when I was 12 or 15 or 20, why I was the way I was, I never would have been like because my grandmother was an alcoholic, and so how do you start to navigate that? ‘Cause I think we're in this place in society where we are bringing more attention to these concepts and to these ideas. But I also fear that a lot of people think that they're maybe nonsensical or maybe they're bullshit. And so how do you bring awareness to this in a way that's actually practical for your life?

Christoffel: Let's say, if I look, say it's all right, it will research proofs based on epigenetics. Epigenetics actually, how our DNA is split and what kind parts of DNA is actually activated. That's by our behavior we are doing, Michael and I, that we change our own, say, chromosomes, and if we then make little babies, those chromosomes somewhere, where our DNA based on our behavior today. Now, so if I work with clients and all this kind of stuff. Things, it's actually making aware, okay, you're genetically and also based on your upbringing, connected to your past. It doesn't mean it's an excuse for who you are now, but it is a fact. So the only thing you can do, how can we play with it? And in, say, in a broader sense, say in society, those kinds of things, like your podcast and how we share, it's actually making aware people, hey, there is, say, and generational bringing through and the good thing, if you would say, the good thing of, say, all those horrible wars and slavery and whatever we had in life is that research now shows it is actually true. And there is so much research done after the Second World War about, say, second generation and third generation, that it is scientifically not destructible anymore. We cannot say no to it anymore. Based on the scientific proof, we can play with it. Having said that, also other research shows that whatever our DNA now says, it is 50 percent of who we are now. 50 percent of what we do now is our DNA and epigenetics, the other 50 percent is actually all the choices we make in our own life. And based on twin studies who are separated by birth, they got those conclusions, genetically the same. They have different outcomes in their weight, in their emotional behavior, in their resilience and other kinds of stuff. Hey, what is happening there? Hey, it's actually how they dealt with it? What kind of choices to make? Yeah, I would say from my side is different, but I say what you're doing and bringing it out, it makes it more normal for people.

Michael: Yeah. And I think a lot of that is like recognizing nature versus nurture because your environment plays this gigantic role in your life, and if you grow up under stress, if you grow up under abuse and trauma or homelessness or, famine or a prison camp, like you carry that with you and your body assesses that to help you make meaning for survival, right? And so it's if you get. This for instance, if you get hit by a red car when you're eight years old for the rest of your life, you might be terrified of the color red. And I don't think people really piece those things together because it's survival at its finest. It's really the thing that our brain is suited for to keep us alive. While at the same time that survival keeps you alive, sometimes it can keep you massively stuck. Now you have decades of experience as being a coach, you have decades of experience as being a therapist, you're this incredibly qualified person, right? One of the things that I'm always thinking about is this place of stuckness for people and that place of stuckness based on their past experience. And you see this constantly where people may be incredibly successful at business, but terrible at relationships or incredibly successful at relationships, but terrible at managing money. And so how do you leverage the experiences of your past to help you get unstuck? And can you even do that?

Christoffel: And the last question, the answer is yes, it doesn't mean it's easier, but we can all get this stuck. And just to give you a little bit. Heads up, you said about three brains, what research shows, and you have to book the body keeps the score from Bessel van Kolk. And there's a scientifically proof that our body, and it's actually done already more, our body actually remembers trauma. As you can psychologically help, and CBT and all this kind of stuff, you can solve your problem in your head and understand why it happened and get somewhere peace with it. But your body remembers what happens now. That's somewhere a long time ago, sparked me from where in the body, how the body, how does it remember? Where's the brain in the body? Now, those questions led me actually to research that showed already 35 years ago in science. The brain has a heart. The gut has a heart, it has a brain. And that is scientifically proven, 100, 000 brain cells, 500 million brain cells. They memorize and they can make decisions. Now, what is now the beauty of all of this? When you talk about survival, we all like to survive, they have different roles. Your head likes to predict and know. Memory, but what is handy to do, not handy to do, your heart is all about bonding. Also based on the neurotransmitters it emits. Where do you feel love in your heart, where do you feel rejection? In your heart. Where do you feel betrayal? In your heart, your gut is all about survival. It is actually the part that still looks like it has the same functionality as the first living creatures 500 million years ago. A digestive system, and a digestive system was totally able to take care of itself. Your gut system physically can do the same, you can break your spine and still digest. Your intestines, your small intestine can make decisions by itself, massive proof already done on that, and your gut is only about one thing, survival, really primarily for that. If we both would be in a fight and God forbid, then the gut says, okay, hit him hard so that he doesn't stand up anymore, your gut would say hit him hard back. That part is also has capacity to turn off a neocortex, a logical thinking part besides bringing blood flow. So we're not thinking rational anymore, the gut remembers also all survival stuff. So what you said you got hit by a red car, your gut knows, and they did massive research. When is the first memory we have as kids? Something like three years. Before three years, we don't have an active memory here, but research also shows insecure attachment. If you don't have secure attachment with your parents in the first years, you're actually anxious or extremely bully and you disconnect or you get totally messed up. The first three years are extremely important for a lot of your socialization, yourself worth, and how you deal with relationships. But this one is not in place there, your heart and your gut actually know. Now, that's the one part of science. Now let's go to your question, how do you get unstuck? The unstuckness is actually in your heart and your gut. Sometimes I like to say it's easy and it doesn't mean the process is easy, but the solution is rather easy. Your heart and your gut don't know time, your head knows tomorrow and yesterday, your heart and gut like just are like the Average dog, they live in it now. Say to your dog, tomorrow we're going to the park and he already is next to the door standing. Hey, I heard park, are we going out now? Your heart and gut are the same. So the moment you work on the heart and the gut to make it like that, and you explain to them, let's use that word, that it is actually in the past that you were hit by a red car, that you were beaten up like that, that your parents were like this or then actually the heart almost drops or the gut drops it right away and thinks, okay. It's not needed to hold on it anymore, and just really drops it as this spirit, almost, of course, based on the habituals we have, you can still have the gravy a little bit because you always did that behavior, but there is no push anymore from your heart to your gut. There is no guilt, regret, or anger or fear anymore. But I love also to be here to make people aware we can. But up to now, due respect for all the psychologists and all those other kind of people, most of them are barking up the wrong tree, just not to insult somebody, but do you know what the two latest say let's call tools are for psychologists, techniques they use EMDR, Eye Movement Desensitization. What does it have to do with psychology? Nothing, it is actually going into the memory, really vivid memory, start talking about it and start moving your eyes. And you can learn that in a couple of weeks, you don't have to go four years or six years to study psychology for that. The other part is what they actually add also in CBT and other things are mindfulness. Now, Michael, when is mindfulness invented?

Michael: Probably at inception.

Christoffel: Yeah, absolutely. Thousands of years ago, in Asia already, mindfulness and psychology actually shows, in the latest techniques, that it actually doesn't have to do anything with psychology, because the psychology success rates are on average, based on research, 35%. Of course, with some ups and downs, what kind of topic they handle. It's already known that for trauma, war veterans, The average CBD or those kinds of things don't solve it. Peter Levine, trauma expert, had massive research about it and shows all those kinds of things. It makes sense that we as humans are somewhere hopeless, clueless, and sometimes thinking, what, how, what can we do with it? Because the medical science and the psychological science actually, the medical science gives us pills, but doesn't solve anything. There is no medication that actually solves something, it only soothes it. Because even antibiotics, what's amazing actually kills the bacteria, but it does, you could say, does it heal the body? No, it just kills what's in it. And psychology and psychiatry and all this kind of stuff, they actually always stay above your throat. Unless you go to somatic therapy now, so it makes sense that we find there's so many ways that we got stuck It's a beautiful commercial business to feel to make people sick because if you're sick Michael do you know how much money we can make on you?

Michael: Yeah a lot and I think that's part of the problem too. And it's really interesting because when I look at the people that I work with and even in my own life, success comes through the action, right? Success comes through the willingness to do the difficult things to look truthfully and nakedly at the role that you play in this journey, which that's a really hard one too, right? Because people are like, it's, and it's not your fault that you've arrived in this situation. I think that's very fair. But you have to look at what you're doing, and I remember I got a few years ago, I had written this blog post about why I would have done coaching before therapy, and what it really came down to is recognizing that therapy was this really incredible kind of sense of understanding. Of causation and correlation, but what coaching did, which I think is probably predominant and this is for me was gave me the ability to change my behavioral patterns because that place that we talk about when you look at these three brains of intelligence, it's like I would ignore my gut. And that to me is like one of the most dangerous things that you can do, and then I realized like, why do you ignore your gut? Because it's been negatively reinforced that if you actually follow your gut, you may suffer pain or hurt or be ostracized or ramifications, and so now it's a survival mechanism to take the very thing that is actually built for you to survive and put it to the side. And it's I only learned how to overcome that to be able to have boundaries, to be able to show up, to be able to not only say no, but say yes, to remove myself from codependency, to chase my dreams and to ultimately be sitting here with you today through the willingness to be like, I'm going to try this anyway. And what I try to teach people frequently is your brain is a liar. And, I had Dr. Gabor Mate here. I've had Dr. Caroline Leaf here, Mariel Bouquet, a lot of these amazing trauma therapists, coaches, specialists, myself included, we all agree. Don't trust your brain, it's stupid. And so let's get into this a little bit deeper. Chris felt like, how do you trust your gut? Like, how do you get to that place where you're like, I'm willing to go for my achievements, my success, what happiness I want to get in that place of following my heart, where I will get in that place of knowing that I have the power to change my life, even though those things may have happened to me?

Christoffel: No, it's a beautiful question. And then you spoke about all this amazing people in the podcast and what they actually say, yeah. The more you follow your heart and don't listen to your gut, what is your protection mechanism, pain will arise, because you say yes to everybody except to yourself, that's what it makes so much sense. So how do you start? And yes, this one, I always call this our beautiful head, the consultant, and if people say, how do you mean? I said, of course, your head can be in charge. If we do now breathing exercise, your head will be in charge. And we dictate how we breathe in and breathe out, saying on the same moment to your brain, ‘could you just stop thinking about all those thoughts that come in? Even the most experienced meditators say, no, sometimes you just come in and we just see them there. So you can the head is even not possible to stop all the thoughts coming in. Yes, sure, it is not the strongest. And if you just think about, say, when we're hungry and you go to the kitchen and say, open the fridge. And most times your logical head loses from your gut who says, oh, that looks yummy. So how do you start listening to him? Now, the first part is actually connecting with them, and when I train coaches or leaders on three brain coaching, and then ask, OK, what would your gut say if you would just follow it? But what would you do if you would just follow your gut? And sometimes people say, I don't know, I don't feel my gut, and they're so disconnected that they actually don't hear the sick, the signals from their gut anymore, they suppress so much, the anger, their own kind of things that they don't feel it anymore. The first thing that somewhere happens is now. physically start feeling it. That's one, and the secondly part is, and that's what you shared already, coming over here, what is actually stopping it from doing it? Where did I always ask, where did you learn only to follow your heart? Where did you learn to stop listening to your gut? Or where did you learn to stop listening to your heart? And not to go right away and theorize what happened there and diving in, but much more to create people's awareness, I learned it somewhere. Okay, you learned it somewhere. Now, always ask a second question, when you learned that, was it useful? And all people say, it was extremely useful. In that moment, the better relationship is with mom, my brother, my sister, my school, wherever I survive, okay. So when you learned it, it was freaking amazing good. Yes, it was freaking amazing good. Okay, and then people come here. Oh, wow. Okay, so my coping mechanism actually was freaking amazing good. And there's something else that most people think now because they think it's my saboteur. It's my villain, I hate it, I like to kill it. I said no, don't kill something that actually did all the best for you a long time ago. Start appreciating it from the appreciation you have in the past, you can hold it again because if you like to push it away, it's not there, okay. So if you hold it, when is the, when did you say to that coping mechanism? It's time to go or who should actually say it's time to go. And you learn to get a better relationship with your dad, or you did not get beaten up by your dad, or you were part of the peer group, and you were now one of the boys, or one of the girls. Who actually, for who did you do it? And the moment you know for who you did it, and most of us say, just imagine. That person now 30 years later, you meet them and they would say, Hey, by the way, I learned that 30 years ago because I wanted to be friends with you and I still do this. What do you think? Should I still do it? Nine out of 10 people who you ask the question would say, of course not. Maybe it's good to remember 16 years old and we wanted to be tough and have smoke. Please stop smoking now, crazy guy. And the moment they hear actually from the person they did it for, stop it. A lot of times that it falls out of the bandwagon right away, and it's just massive release in the heart and the gut feel okay. I don't have to do that coping mechanism anymore, it's not needed anymore. And that moment when people do that, they can also much more aware of the sensations that are happening in their own body. Of course, they don't feel the tightness anymore. So there are more things. And a quick communication to do, one is a somatic feeling part to really start somatically feeling it. And the second part is, hey, you learned once to stop it or not to feel it or to only listen to one. Now, so many years later, is this coping mechanism still needed? Okay, what do we need to let that coping mechanism go? Because these ones don't know time, these ones, your heart and your gut still think it's now, but the moment your heart and your gut know, oh, it was 30 years ago and it's not needed anymore. It dropped the coping mechanism almost in the blink of a second. So those two things, how you play with it, but that's more from the therapeutical coaching way, how we work with people, if you are sitting by yourself and you don't have you or me or somebody else around, you just say, you can ask those questions to yourself and do it by yourself.

Michael: Yeah. There's power in self coaching, like I really try to instill that in people. Like I believe that subconsciously and probably more often consciously, we know what we need to do. We know we, we like, we have this thought in our head, we fill it in our body, whether it's, quit the job or, start the business or leave the relationship or, travel the whatever it is, it doesn't matter, like you, you know what it is. And it's if you can stop ignoring that, and this is, I want to go deeper into something that I know that you have a lot of experience about. It's about relationships, right? But it's the relationship that we have not only to ourself, but to others. And then the fear I think fear, we have this fucking relationship with fear where it's our best friend. It's our worst enemy, it drives us. Sometimes it's the reason why we create change, but more often than not, it's the reason why we can't go forward. And it's here you are standing in front of everything that you've ever wanted, and all you have to do is take one step, and it's like the universe has supported you in creating an environment in which you can have your own success and yet you don't do it. And it's if we look at this, we measure, okay, here are all these experiences that lead you here, and here is your opportunity to set these positive intentions, to get an alignment with your three brains, to be able to lead your life, and yet you still sabotage yourself, it's like, how do we change that relationship with fear?

Christoffel: It's extremely good question. And you had the government date in your podcast, honest people. And we have two big fears in our life. The biggest fear is fear of rejection. Of course, if we are rejected by logically, we don't survive. Because if we are born when we were born, we depend on survival for my parents or caregivers, so being rejected by your caregivers or parents means death. So biologically we're really set up to bond, and your heart also can release oxytocin for the bonding besides your amygdale, so we are biologically set up for bonding. So biologically, we've been, we have a fear of rejection, so in relationships, stepping out of relationship. Stepping out of your work, which you don't like, stepping out of a toxic family situation, stepping out of peer group pressure, it's all fear of being rejected. So it is massively, fears for survival, of course, in your gut is also there. Say, as I say no to my boss, oh, I don't have a job anymore, I become homeless and all this kind of stuff. So those are the two major fears. In the average Western world is more fear of rejection than fear of survival. Especially in Europe, where there are so much social safety nets, fear of survival is almost not there anymore. It's a little bit different than in the States, where you have so many homeless peoples there, where the fear of survival is much stronger. But the fear of rejection is really biologically set in much stronger. How do we overcome it? That was your question. It's actually first thing acknowledging these are our two fears. I have a fear of rejection, I have a fear of, say, survival, and just acknowledge we have those. I have them, you have them, Michael, we all have them. And we can be both seasoned by all our ups and downs we have, but we still are somewhere fearful for whatever it is. So after acknowledgement, in some case, if I would skip away the fear, then again, say we just follow my passion. What would I really do? I most times I ask the question, just imagine your job, your partner, your family, your friends are not there anymore on this moment. You just emigrate to the other side of the world, like I did emigrating from Netherlands to Australia, you could not be almost more far away from it. From that moment, you can reinvent yourself time zone wise, friend wise, and that moment you can. No moment. Okay, so you're going now to live the next five years in Australia or wherever you're going to live on the side of the world. No friends, no family, whatever, sir, what would you do? And a lot of time people, they can much more connect with what they want to do, 'cause there is no fear of rejection or failure anymore, 'cause that is somewhere still in your own country. And from that concept you can play. Okay, so this is what holding you back. Fear, this is what you would do, everwise it from there, what would you like to do? 'cause the fears that holds you back are most times the fear from the past and stops you actually to live who you want to live and to be who you want to be. And then it's the third question of course, and we know that question probably both really good. Say we're both 90, Michael. We're sitting somewhere on the porch having a drink. We look back and we sit there a little bit say a little bit more gray, maybe a little bit less flexible, and we look back on the life and we have a chat and say, Hey, Michael, if you now look back, where do you really have regret off? What are the things you now say, shit, I should have done it, and that third awareness I also put on the table. Okay, so would you like to live your last years with regret? I did not do or will you like to live your last years when I did it? Maybe it wasn't always successful, but at least I did it, that's the sentence, better to have regret about the things you did than regret about the things you didn't do. And that dance of the three pillars in that case can help you for yourself, but also if you work with people to get that insight, that awareness at least. And then coming over here, actually, if you talk about three bits, which brain is in my words of the blocking to move forward, where is then that real fear of old coping mechanism there? Because say you have a fear of leaving your partner to make it extremely horrible, you have a fear of leaving your partner for whatever kind of reason. Your partner walks tomorrow on the street and for some odd reason that red car you just mentioned hit her and she's not there anymore. What do you do then?

And people never thought about it was a living in and now, but then it means, Oh wow, okay. Then she's not there anymore or he's not there anymore, oh wow. Now then I would move there and there. I said, so what do you learn from that? You're keeping yourself here, but you never know what's going to be in the future. So you're staying here, and maybe in one week, two weeks, three weeks, life totally changes. So who is going to be the director of your life?

Michael: Yeah. That's the question, right? I wake up every day and I put my feet on the ground and I literally, every single day I say this, I am in control of my life and it's just like a precursor to whatever is in front of me and look, and sometimes it's not going to be the best day and I am like, even though I'm like the trauma coach guy, blah, blah, blah, it's dude I have fucking horrible days sometimes, but I have amazing days sometimes. And it's but most of my days are just in the middle, like they just are and it's but what role am I playing in my success or my failure? What role am I playing in my suffering or my own need to get in my own way? That sabotage and, you said something about moving to Australia, there's so much power in the leaving everything that, you know, and I've been fortunate enough to travel the world multiple times. For long durations of time, and I'm actually getting ready to do it again. And part of that is because there's always discovery, there's a story on, I'll give you the short version of it. But when I was young my grandmother told me never travel the world, it's scary out there. And in my passport, there is a photo of her as a reminder to not listen to anyone but myself. Not that I don't love her and that there was value in a lot of the things that she brought me, but my grandmother was never on an airplane one time in her life, what does she know about the world? And it's almost like you have to be willing to compartmentalize. The thought of other people about who it is that you are and to put it to the side and then even do the same for yourself, which is really difficult to take the thoughts and concepts in your head about who it is that you think you are and instead actually move to the person that you want to be. And I think if you can, do that with some grace and some compassion. It's easier to face the fear because yes, it is the fear of rejection, it is the fear of, potentially being homeless because survival and community are part of the basic human needs, but it's also dude, we live in the safest time in history. We live in the most accessible time in history, we live in the most communal time in history, and it's I guarantee you here's what I think about. And I know that I'll get rebuttal on this and someone will email me. I know that this will happen, but that's okay, ‘cause I'm gonna say it anyway. I guarantee you that if you were on your last nickel with nowhere to stay, if you just asked for help, people would help you, and I've seen it time and time again. So here's where I'm leading with that question or with this setup here, when I think about my personal journey, when I think about my success, when I think about my client success, when I sit across from someone, whether it's one or one or in our group, the thing that they all have in common is this. And I think that you probably have this as well. And I want to go into the power of this. We were all willing to ask for help. How important is asking for help in this healing journey?

Christoffel: Extremely, yeah. Extremely important what you just said. We now have an average age in Western society of 80 years. 100 years ago, the average age was 45, we died. One hundred years ago one out of two kids died. Now it's one out of twenty or something. And so we are really in the most prosperous time of efforts. If you look at wars and all this kind of stuff. It looks worse because we have so much social media around us. And now you know that ten people died in Jakarta. And if you go out, 10 people died in Jakarta, and we never knew that 100 years ago. So you're totally right. Asking help is essential, because if you think about it, what you just said, why don't we change also? Because change is dangerous, our comfort zone is there for a reason, as we call it. If I know what I do, if I'm in a relationship with my family, with my work, with my traumas, it's safe because this is what I know. If you like to change, actually, if you also look at brain wiring, you have to create new neural pathways for the new you. Now, your three brains consume up to 40% of your daily energy, just by thinking, and your head alone, all 25, 20, 25%. So if you like to change yourself, step out of your family, your work, your trauma, your other kind of stuff, you need new neural pathways, that takes a shitload of energy. Your body says, Oh, I'm going to spend 10, 20 percent of new neural pathways that diminishes my energy system for order kind of things. I don't think so. I would like to stay in a comfort zone based on what we said. Bonding is our and rejection. The bonding is one of our biggest needs in life. The moment you ask for help, actually start bonding and bonding creates a feeling of safety inside yourself. If I feel safety with you, Michael, then I'm more daring to risk, to step out of my comfort zone because I know you have somewhere in my back. I dort, if you look at it in a negative way, if you, now say, if one person, not us, if one person is in a metro station, you must start looting. Put ten friends of him there, and before you know it, you have still a lot of hooligans tearing up the station. People feel safer in a group, for the negative, but also for the positive. So the moment you ask help. And somebody gives it to you. Actually what the person says is, no, I'm there with you. I create safety and bonding with you. And that moment, actually your heart and gut, in my words, say, my heart feels bonded with Michael. My gut feels safe with him, with that, maybe I dare to step out of my comfort zone and face my own fears, face my own boundaries, because I know there is somebody with me. I'm not there in myself, and so having that connection with somebody. Is I will not say essential for change because we also did a lot of self work as we discussed, but it makes life much easier, there is also that saying after every big precedent is an amazing, even bigger partner. And why is that? Because most of them, we cannot do all our amazing stuff by ourselves. Look at Steve Jobs. He has this guy behind him. Bill Gates had his guy behind him. They're almost all the big companies. There's always a silent partner who helps them, and why is that? Because it's that bonding, that safety, I dare to take risks. And it makes totally sense. We have that need to do and I will not say that, and the wisdom is coming from Joe Cocker and the Beatles, with a little help of my friends.

Michael: That's right. No, that's spot on. And it's sometimes also like recognizing that asking for help could be listening to the podcast or reading the book or hiring the coach. And I think that's such an important part of the journey is the willingness to put yourself out there and, in the hardest times. It's that's how you discover who you are, but that's also how you discover who has your back. And trust me when I say I know who my people are because in my hardest times, they're there for me and I'm there for them. My friend, that's been amazing conversation, thank you for this. Before I ask you the last question, where can everyone find you and grab a copy of the book?

Christoffel: I would say that's why they're easy or you Google my name, Christoffel Sneijders. That's sometimes hard, but Christoffel and then Sneijders. It's Dutch, so it's harder, or you type in Three Brains Intelligence and you hit my website, because really I talk about three brains intelligence because you have three wisdom centers there, and you find me. There you find also the link to the book. You can also go in Amazon, type in Relationships? Which Brain Is Talking? and you find it. And what is my passion? Just like you with your podcast. Why should people read the book or listen to your podcast to come over here? Hey, there is a solution, there is help. Somebody understands it is somebody did the journey, many people did the journey. So it's not me along with my shittiness, if it's not my relationship or something else, it is actually, you could say normal, normally in the fact that it happens to almost everybody somewhere in time. And then you come back to your previous question, asking for help or listen to your podcast, read my book, helps you because actually. It's not strange. You could do something about it.

Michael: Yeah, that's right. And guys, of course, go over to ThinkUnbrokenpodcast.com. We will put all this and more in the show notes for today's episode. My last question for you, my friend, what does it mean to you to be unbroken?

Christoffel: What does it mean for me, unbroken, it means actually to do a metaphor in Japan, if a beautiful face or pot is broken, they glue it with gold to make it more precious, to make it more worth. And I think for us being unbroken and have being broken, actually we are more precious than we were before because we have all the learnings inside us and the beauty also to share with this other people and help other people. So in my meaning, it means we, who are unbroken, have something that we could give to other people.

Michael: I love that. I could not agree more. There is something about turning your pain into pursuit. And I think that is so much of the journey, my friend, thank you again for being here on broken nation.

Thank you for listening. Please comment, share, subscribe on YouTube, check me out on Instagram at Michael Unbroken. And of course, wherever you listen to podcasts. Please hit that follow button and remember every time you share this conversation, you share this podcast, you're helping other trauma survivors become the hero of their own story, turn trauma into triumph and ultimately to be unbroken.

And Until Next Time,

My Friends, Be Unbroken.

I'll See Ya.