Healing Trauma Through Nature and Grounding: Expert Tips and Personal Journey with Clint Ober

Michael: Hey! What's up, Unbroken Nation! Hope that you're doing well wherever you are in the world today. I'm very excited to be back with you with another episode with my guest, Clint Ober. Clint, how are you today, my friend? What is happening in your world?

Clint: Well, I'm doing pretty good, Michael. I'm sitting out here in Southern California, the weather's pretty nice from now and that season of the year that I really enjoy, so I'm pretty content.

Michael: That's a good place to be, my friend. I discovered you a few years ago on a Mutual Friends Podcast, and it really got me thinking about so many of the differentiations of life and in the way that we live now versus the way that we used to as society changes, technology advances, we live in the electronic world. And I'm very excited to have this conversation with you. But before we dive in, tell us a little bit about your background and how you got to where you are today.

Clint: Okay. Well, I'm 78 years old, so I've been around a long time, but I started out, I grew up in Montana as an outdoor cowboy that's a boy that sits on a horse and rides around the pasture, watching, looking at the cows, make sure they're healthy and make sure they're okay. And as long as they are then, you know, you can make a living doing that. So, I primarily, I spent a lot of time in nature and in the early days, growing up, I was taught prevention, taking care of animals, taking care of animals in the wild and the livestock and so on but it's always about prevention. You keep the pasture clean and pristine, then the cattle will be healthy and then you can make a profit. If they get sick, you gotta call the vet. You have to call the banker at the same time, because after that, the vet and the bank owned the cows. So, that's kind of where the background I come from.

So, prevention is something that's ingrained in me and I come from the forties. So back then we didn't have all the institutions, all the medical, all the pills, we didn't have all the stuff that we have today. So, you pretty much had to take care of yourself and take care of your health and eat an apple a day, keep the doctor away, was the mantra.

So anyhow, after I left that environment, I ended up falling in love with the communications industry, the cable television industry. I'm one of the official pioneers of the cable industry, and in that industry, we have to ground everything electrical to the earth. We have to ground the cables to the earth before we enter a home in case there's any lightning or static or noise or electrical interference in the area. And to prevent, you know, lightning from entering the home and creating a fire. So, I learned about grounding, everything electrical has to be grounded in the entire electronics and communication industry.

Grounding is a very big thing; it has to do with electrical stability. So, you get good clean signals, good clean pictures, good clean data for your computer, and so on and so on. So, I spent about 30 years in that industry. So, to me, I took grounding, you know, for granted, you ground everything in order to maintain electrical stability and have prevent fire and have clean pictures. And that was all good and never thought too much about it, but I retired from the cable industry when I was 15, 20, 29 years ago. And the reason I retired was because I had a serious health situation. I developed an abscess in a liver from a root canal that was done, and I ended up losing the larger portion of my liver and they didn't know at that time, this is long time ago. But they didn't know for sure back then how much of the liver they could remove and how if you could survive and I was on a very marginal area. But anyhow, I did go through with the surgery, I did survive and, in the process, because it could have gone either way at that time. But anyhow, I remember one of the Docs told me when they discovered what was wrong, he said, you need to go get your house in order because we don't know how much of the liver they can work with, it's a long story. But anyhow, they ended up saying, first of all, you know, there's a chance you may not make it, so you have to have your affairs in order. And so, I went home and did that but it was kind of a shock because all of a sudden, you know, here you are, a 50-year-old man, King of the mountain, everything's going good and live in a frame 5,000 square foot, A-frame home in Evergreen, Colorado, I can see all the way to veil. But anyhow, when I was in the process of recovering from that, I ended up, just coming into terms with life and the main thing that hit me was that, you know, if I had died, my children would've come and taken some of the things in the home. And I had a huge collection of art and I got to thinking, well, nobody would've ever have known why I purchased anything or why I did anything in my life when I come to material things. And so, I called them all up and I said, I want you to come and get whatever you want, and then I'm going to give away everything else because what I realized in a moment when I was going through all of this is that you know, when you die, you don't take any of this stuff with you. And you spend your whole life collecting these things and your life is about these things, but they've really what's gonna happen to 'em when you're gone, you know, the kids are gonna take 'em or get rid of 'em or donate 'em, or all these things.

So, it's kind of a shocking thing. And so, I had this kind of an epiphany where I went through this thing where all of a sudden, I didn't want to own anything ever again, I just wanted to get rid of everything I own because it just put fear in me. And I didn't wanna own anything cuz I felt that what I ended up, I was being responsible for all these things I have collected. But my life was about acquiring things, taking care of things, and I just had this epiphany that I didn't wanna own anything, I wanted to let go of everything, and I wanted to make my life about something more important, something that had significance or not significance to anybody else in the world ‘cuz when you die, you die alone. There's nobody there with you. But I wanted to be happier the next time I die or come close to dying. I wanna be able to be happy with myself, feel like I was here something other than a great consumer. I wanted to be of service. I wanted to be of help. So, anyhow, after that, I sold everything, I sold the house and I bought a small RV. And I spent four years traveling around the United States just going from national parks because that's where I felt the best and I was single, I was just kind of alone, my children are all out on their own. And anyhow, so I ended up down in Largo, Florida on the Bayside of the golf down there. And I'd been there for a few months and one night I was kind of because I'm a nature boy, I just have a lot of nature in me. But I felt like, you know, I needed to go back to work, I needed to go do something worthwhile. I didn't know what to do, but I was just standing there looking out over the bay, and I had this feeling come over me, and these words came to my mind. The first one was, you know becoming an opposite charge.

To me, being an electrical background, that means go out and poke people or stir 'em up or do something, get 'em excited like rounding up the cow, charge 'em up. And then about a half hour later, I wrote down a second thing that just popped into my mind, you know, status quo is the enemy. Didn't know what to think about any of it but I wrote her down on a yellow piece of paper, still have it 30 years, almost, you know, 20 some years later. And so anyhow, I didn't think too much about it, but I had the feeling come over me that I had to go back west where I was from back in California, Arizona, and Montana. And so, I had to go back and do something.

So, I headed back and when I got there, you know, first of all, I went to San Diego that didn't feel comfortable, then I ended up going back to Tucson and that didn't feel right. So, I thought, well, I'll go to Flagstaff, Arizona because they have pine trees and snow, like Montana's cold, something I'm used to. And on the way up, I headed up there late in the afternoon from Phoenix and it got late in the day, and so it was about 10 o'clock. I said, well, I'm not gonna go any further, it was a little sign that pointed to Sedona, Arizona with a campground sign. And so, I thought, well, I'll just pull in there and drive up to Flagstaff in the morning. Well, anyhow, I woke up the next morning and I looked out the window and I said, wow, I'm not leaving here, this is like living in a national park. So, I spent a couple years in Sedona and while I was there, I accidentally ended getting involved in the art gallery business or the art galleries helping them light up their art shows and so on.

So, I started working with electrical again and I owned a lot of art, so I knew that art needs to be presented properly in order for people to appreciate what the artist is trying to present. And so, I started doing some professional lighting for these, nobody could pay for it, they didn't have enough money but I loved lighting art. So, anyhow, one day I was ordering some stuff on a computer and the computer kept crashing, this is back in the late nineties and you didn't have a lot of good internets or anything like that, but anyhow, the computer kept crashing. So, every time it would crash, I'd have to shut it down, bring it back up, and then try to order my stuff. And so anyhow, I realized that it was static electricity that was causing the glitches on the computer ‘cuz the computer wasn't grounded or anything back then. And so, anyhow, I laid a strip of copper tape across my desk and I connected it to an electrical ground and then I would touch the copper strip before I'd touch my keyboard to get rid of the static on my body from the dry air there and then I could type away and everything was fine. Solved the problem. And so, my grounding came back, so few minutes later I walked outdoors and I sat down on a bench across from Tlaquepaque, which is a tourist area there in Sedona. And a big tour bus pulls up and this is a Japanese tour group and they're a little shorter in stature, but anyhow, so when they started marching off the bus, they all had white Nike tennis shoes on like they had been to a strip mall, they had Nike shoes or Nike tennis shoes on, or athletic shoes on sale. But now they were big, they seemed big. And so anyhow, I just looked at it and I don't know where this came from it was intuitive and I said, I asked myself, if there's a consequence to humans no longer being naturally grounded, because when I was a kid, you know, in the forties and the early fifties, we were barefoot all the time. We never wore shoes unless we were going to school or church or some event. And when we did wear shoes, they were leather so we had to, if it rained, we had to carry them so they didn't get wet, because if they got wet, then they'd curl up and then you'd get in trouble when you got home. So, anyhow, I didn't know and so I went home that night and I did the same thing that I did with the computer at home. I first of all, I went around the house and took a meter and started measuring all of the electrical charges, like static electricity, EMF, just all of the electromagnetic interference or electromagnetic noise that's in our homes. It's everything from airplanes to police cars to, I mean, it's just relentless today. And then we had cell phones on it today so if you could see frequencies, you wouldn't be able to see anything cuz everything would be pitch black because there's so much noise out there.

So, anyhow in the process I went home that night and I started playing around there, I started measuring all these frequencies on my body when I was walking around the house. So, I went back to the hardware store, bought a roll of a three-inch-wide metal duct tape, brought it home, laid it across my bed, just more to the story, but laid it across my bed, ground wire out the ground out the window, connected it to the earth, and then I went in and laid down on the tape. And then as long as I was laying on the tape, then I was shielded or protected from all of these electromagnetic frequencies and fields and so on. And the thing that happened when I laid down that night, back then I was 54 or something like that, you know, being a cowboy, I skied for 30 years, played tennis, I've done everything, and my body was full of aches and pains all the time, chronic. You know how men are, you know, no pain, no gain. So, anyhow, I laid it across my bed and I laid down on that tape and I was playing with a vault meter and then the next thing I knew it was morning. And I thought, wow, there's something going on here because normally I can't fall asleep. I had to take Advil to go to sleep or I had to take some kind of a pain med because I had so much chronic pain. And I was at that 50 plus age. So, anyhow, I played with it for a couple of days and it kept again at night as long as I was laying on the tape, the grounded metal that was connected to the Earth, then my body was grounded, I could test it with a meter and see that I was at Earth potential, and then I would automatically fall asleep better. And then a couple days after that, I got ahold of one of my buddies who I was running, spending time with there, with having me light the galleries and stuff and he had arthritis and he had a lot of pain in his body. And I said, and he couldn't sleep and I said, well, you need to try this. And I said, it sounds crazy, but you gotta try this. So I went, put some tape on his bed and his wife almost threw me out of the house. But anyhow, so I hooked it up and he laid on it that night and I didn't hear anything from him for a couple of days, but he got a hold of me and he said, you know, he said, do you think this could have any effect on my arthritis? And I said, no. I think it's just, makes the noise go away and then you sleep better. Your nervous system is quieter and so on. And he said, well, my arthritis is way down then I realized that my chronic pain was almost gone, and then I said, Okay, how come I don't know about this? How come somebody doesn't know that being grounded makes pain go away?

Michael: Yeah, and that's one of the things that's really fascinating, Clint, is that first off, and thank you for that story. I love the backstory and I wanted to give you a space to share it because of a- your expertise, and b - because this is a subject matter nobody ever talks about. I've done my research now on it more and more over the years. And one of the things I think would be really important is if we can actually create some context and maybe definitions around a few of these words so we don't lose people as we get a little bit deeper. So, can you explain grounding to us?

Clint: Okay. First of all, the earth has a natural, what we call a negative surface charge. Negative means no charge means an abundance of free electrons, they're kind of like, it is a store of electrons. I mean, they're actually stored in on the surface of the earth. And so, we connect everything electrical to the earth so those free electrons can go up or down a ground rod and reduce charge. The most natural thing you can relate to would be lightning if there's a buildup of positive charge in the clouds, negative on the earth, then there'll be a fisher of lightning go up into the air, and then the electrons will go up or down in order to reduce that charge in the clouds. And then the rain comes and then it all dissipates and goes away. So, in the real world, like anybody working on electronic chips or software, gasoline, gunpowder, fireworks, any of those, they all have to be grounded when they're handling that. So, they don't create a spark from their clothing or something and create a fire.

So, grounding is about reducing charge, preventing ‘cuz charge can create a spark and create a fire. And it can create electrical noise and disturbances, you know, in the electronics and signals and TV signals and sound and all of those kinds of things. So, it's really about maintaining the electrical stability. So as long as something is connected to the earth then the earth will provide enough electrons automatically to prevent this noise or to prevent a fire. So, am I answering the question?

Michael: Yeah, that makes sense. What I'm curious about, so if the earth keeps us grounded, what came to mind as you were sharing this, I learned how to put computers together when I was about 15, and we always had to have the anti static mats. And that's so we didn't fry the motherboard, so we didn't fry the hard drives. And what I'm wondering is like, are we constantly getting fried right now because we're so removed from being grounded to the earth? And if so, is that negatively impacting our health, our inflammation, our pain?

Clint: Well, what grounding is about, what the discovery of the end effect of grounding is what we found was throughout all time, all living species on the planet were connected to the earth in some way either fish in the oceans, whatever, however we all got here, doesn't matter. But anyhow, we were always grounded and it's only been like, well, in reality, it 60 years ago we invented plastics. The first thing we did was put them on the soles of our shoes, carpet, our homes, and plasticized everything today, everything is plasticized to the point covered in plastic, to the point that, so what this plastic does is it insulates you from the earth when the human body is no longer naturally grounded.

To give you an example, it's too early for that. Okay. You know, throughout all time, throughout all time from all the way back to the beginning, we were naturally grounded our bodies evolved in a grounded state, and it was only 1960 or a few years before we invented plastics, the first thing we did, like I said, put 'em on the shoes and insulate our environments. So, all of a sudden, we lost our ground as a human, we no longer touched the ground and we didn't know it took us, you know, 10 years to paste all this together, but inflammation. The word inflammation was not in the English language in 2000. So, you know, 23 years ago, inflammation first entered the English language and inflammation, me is just what it says, inflame. And they referred to the body full of inflammation, the body is on fire. Okay? So that's what grounding's about is preventing fire.

So, anyhow, what we had to do is we learned early on that grounding reduced pain automatically. We did not know why, it took us six, seven years to figure that out. But we had to look at the body and look at, cuz nobody knew why grounding reduced pain. The only people that would even have a clue what was going on with the grounding would be somebody with an electronics background even like you said, grounding yourself to prevent static to fry a motherboard, same concept here. So, we're trying to prevent instead of frying a motherboard, frying the body. So, what happens is when you lose your ground, then your body's no longer negative other than that, you have a slight negative charge.

The key here is you can't have inflammation in a grounded object, whether it's a computer or a person, or an animal, or a plant, it's like, to give you an idea.

Inflammation doesn't exist in the wild animal population. It only exists in humans and animals that live indoors with their owners, that's the big giveaway. But nobody looks at it from that way I mean, we're nobody.

So anyhow, what we had to do is we had to trace down, so what in the body is causing inflammation? We know that by all we were doing is grounding the body and so it has earth potential or negative, this slight negative charge. Well, that negative charge is an abundance of free electrons that automatically move and reduce charge, it's automatic, it's just automatic earth, it's an automatic phenomenon. You don't have to do anything other than touch the earth. So, as time went on, we learned that neutrophils, white blood cells in the body, if you have an injury or a pathogen or you have a damage cell or something, the immune system releases or sends a neutrophil over to the site of the crime or the injury or whatever, and it releases what they call reactive oxygen species. Reactive means they're electrically charged, soon as we learned that, then we knew we were on the right path.

So, these electrically charged molecules, then, I mean so the neutrophil will wrap itself around a pathogen or a damaged cell and release these reactive oxygen species, and they will rip electrons from the damaged self or the pathogen and destroy it, that's how the immune system works; so, it's an electrical. So, then what we realized that when you have chronic pain in the body, it's like they say you have inflammation, body is on fire. So, what is causing the fire? So, what we learned was when you are ungrounded, no longer naturally grounded, then your body is short free electrons. You don't have an abundance of free electrons or an abundance of redox potential, so what happens is if there's any remaining reactive oxygen species after the initial oxidative burst, then those remaining radicals will go and rip an electron from a healthy cell and damage it, it sends a message back to the immune system something's still here getting us. So, the immune system sends another neutrophil it does and goes in fixes that problem, but in the process, it turns into a chronic loop, it's an autoimmune loop. The autoimmune system is automatically producing and creating reactive oxygen and trying to put out the fire but it's done its job. But in now, these excess radicals are oxidizing healthy tissue. So, the immune system now is trying to put out a fire that it itself is creating.

Michael: Is that because it's over correcting and trying to get you back to balance?

Clint: Well, it's trying to reduce oxidative damage in your body. I mean, it's trying to reduce radicals or damaged tissue to eliminate them, but in the process, there's not enough free electrons to reduce the remaining radicals that are produced by the neutrophils. And if you don't reduce them, they're only gonna last a few nano nanoseconds. So, they quickly move and latch onto and steal an electron from a healthy cell, damage it, which promotes another the immune system to release another oxidative burst. And so, the body is just slowly burning, it's on fire, it's slowly burning.

Michael: That makes a lot of sense. So, in that, with understanding that and how that occurs, like obviously looking at being ungrounded, Right? We always have shoes on. Nobody really, like, I live in a city, so there's no backyards anymore. The office is covered in carpet, the cars, the shoes, you know, you see people the hills of their shoes are now two inches thick. We know that those elements are keeping us ungrounded. What about the impact of the electromagnetic elements that are in our environment, wifi, wireless headphones, cell phones, televisions, things like this. Are these things negatively impacting our groundedness as well?

Clint: No grounding has 100% to do with physical contact with the earth which is it's a natural phenomenon. If you are ungrounded, it's just like if you were too unground some of your equipment in your studio, then you may get noise, or you may get issues. So, these electric fields and static electricity, they can create pops and noise and things like that. But they are a secondary stressor, but they're not the promoter of autoimmune disease or any of these inflammation related health disorders. But if you're ungrounded, then your whole system is off because the human body was always grounded it was meant to be grounded. We're from the earth. We live on the earth. We live from the earth, and we're the earth of walking around, you know, we were part of everything that exists, you know, as the earth. And so, when we disconnect and we lose our ground or we lose that natural immunity from fire, from inflammation in the body, when that's gone, then the body these healthy or these issues manifest. So, you stress the body's becoming stressed because it's on fire or it's no longer, it's positively charged it's not negatively charged.

Michael: And when this happens, does this start to put you into like a sympathetic state in terms of the central nervous system?

Clint: Well, what happens is, no, it's just the opposite. When you're ungrounded, then you're more likely to be in a chronically elevated sympathetic state. Your sympathetic nervous system senses everything in the environment. Noise, sound, temperature, sun, just everything in the environment. So, then you have a parasympathetic, which is releases hormones to dopamine, you know, like if you're in a fight or flight state which then your cortisol becomes elevated this is all related to the sympathetic senses a threat and then your fight or flight kicks in your cortisol skyrockets, and then you have a parasympathetic over here that releases hormones to dopamine the effect of this cortisol and so on and that's all good and it works, it works really well in the animal world. But today there's so much noise and so much interference. We lost our senses but anyhow, so what's going on with everybody is chronically stressed because they're ungrounded and their body is very sensitive to all of these things that go on in our environment, our relationships, just everything that's going on and all of the emotions. And so, what happens is we have so much stress in our lives that our parasympathetic nervous system, which operates releases hormones and to dopamine, the effect of this stress, eventually it becomes exhausted and it can no longer buffer the cortisol or the chronically elevated stress. And so, then the body becomes fatigued and then, eventually if you continue to live that way, then the cortisol continues to build and eventually it's gonna create anxiety, irritability, and depression, and maybe then it leads on to a chronic health disorder, like, an immune autoimmune disorder and it just goes on and on then if you don't take care of it, then you're gonna end up going to the doc and it starts out with the ladies with fibromyalgia, then it goes to lupus MS, then to cancer, then cardiovascular disease all of these are health disorders are because the immune system, our immune systems are compromised.

You know, I always like to say this, you know, health is the body's most natural state. Go sit on a rock in the woods and watch the animals. They have health and it's natural, it's a gift. If you do not have health and you have pain in your body, bend something, you're doing something in your environment, something going on is interfering with your immune system's ability to maintain health. So, you have to remove what that is or add back in this case ground because it needs ground, it needs those free electrons from the earth to prevent fire in the body, to prevent inflammation for the immune system to function like it was designed.

Michael: That makes perfect sense because so often you hear people talk about the research and the evidence about being in nature, about getting reconnected to Mother Earth about the fact that, and I agree with you entirely, I mean like really you break it down as humans, we just happen to be a really, really evolved animal. Right? But you look back at any of the lineage of the development of the human species, we were outside for the vast majority of it. We've only been inside dwellers for, you know, a hundred years now, if that. So, one of the things that I'm wondering here, Clint, for people who are listening this and they're like, Okay, I hear you. I feel like I'm probably ungrounded. I don't even know the last time feet touch grass like what are some of the things that people can do? What are like three things that people could start executing and adding to their life to start to get grounded again?

Clint: Yeah. The thing that that I teach the most, when I first discovered the health effects of grounding and I was working with, you know, NIH and other people that do research and California Health Sciences and so on. And the first thing that they told me to do that, you know, we understand what you're doing and but before you go out and tell the people, you have to have a no cost solution and then you have to have a low-cost solution so that people can incorporate it into their lives. And so, the number one thing I've always promoted and especially for women, at the end of the day. I mean, you're operating on cortisol all day long, you know, from all of the fight or flight and all of the stresses of life. And so, at night when you come home, you have to drain that cortisol outta your body and the inflammation related to it. So, you have to come home at night if you can't do anything else, then you take your shoes off, go out in the backyard, put your bare feet on the earth and sit there for 30 minutes, it will change your life. I mean, you'll be a different person because what you're doing is you're draining the inflammation, resetting the body, and then you're gonna feel better. Then you can be more present and you don't have that anxiety and irritability and all the things that go with being ungrounded.

And that's one thing, you know, sometimes taking a hot bath is good and those kinds of things, but you need a routine, you need to be grounded for some, and the number one thing, you know, any amount of grounding is good, but more is better because in nature you would be grounded 24/7. You could not have autoimmune disease, inflammation related health disorder, and that's everything from autism to lupus to cancer to cardiovascular disease, you name it, there's a hundred of them. But these are all inflammation related health disorders. So, you wanna be grounded as much as possible and reduce the inflammation as much as possible so along the way, when we did all of our research, we developed a handful of products called they're ground planes, meaning they are conductive like bed mats or sheets that you can put on your bed connected to an electrical ground and the ground which is connected to the Earth then when you come at night, you only do this one time, then you put your sheet over the top of it and then you just lay down and go to sleep. You don't have to do any extra work. You don't have to do anything. You just lay down and go to sleep and then you're grounded all night long, which is really important if you can do this because during sleep is when the body heals and restores itself.

So, during that process, you need to reduce as much inflammation as you can because it's not supposed to be there in the first place, but so that the immune system can restore and repair the body and restore and bring the body, return the body to normal because the immune system only knows to do one thing, return the body to normal. If you remove the stresses that are interfering with the immune system's ability to function, then it will only do one thing, it will return your health to normal. It's automatic. You see it in the animal world, and I we're so removed that it's hard to see this, but anyhow, so there's these sleep mats, those are products that we develop during our research projects in order to test the benefits of birthing and how to ground people and to do all of the studies. There's about 35, 40 studies that are published now, and we have the book, the movie, all those things now but anyhow, so the best thing to do is experiment with it. Put your feet on the earth, on the grass and notice the changes in your body and your respiration and your heart rate. I could go on and on about studies about, you know, how it changes your blood viscosity, how your circulation improves for the ladies that tell the beauty product. If you put your feet on the earth for 30 minutes, you're gonna look 10 years younger because your blood normalizes, your blood viscosity, normalizes, now you have improved circulation blood can get into the capillaries, clean up the damage and the inflammation in your tissue and so, you're gonna look healthier, you're gonna feel better.

Michael: I have that question I have to ask because I live in an inclement weather climate, and it gets freezing cold here, man. And so, I'm wondering, like, when you live in most of Northern America across the hemisphere, what can people do in like late fall, winter, early spring when there's ice, there's snow on the ground? Are we still like, go put your feet out on the ground and like freeze your toes off? Like what do you do then?

Clint: No, that's not probably, that's not a very good idea. You know, it's like I can get into it technically, but most of the animals, they don't live standing up in the snow, they have burrows and they have do this and do that and whatever, but they have skin and they're protected because of the way they are. The reason when we did the studies, we asked ourselves, okay, what is the best thing we can do to help people be grounded at home during sleep, the time when the body heals and restores itself? And that's when we decided we take these ground planes that we are using for our studies and try to make products that people could put on their bed, plug it into their electrical ground because the electrical ground in your house, that third round hole in the electrical out that goes to the earth, that's an earth ground. So, the only way you're gonna touch the Earth comfortably is to use your electrical ground, or you can drive a ground rot in if you don't have a normal ground, and run a wire into your house and connect it to one of these conductive sleep mats. And lay down and go to sleep and like sleeping outdoors in the pasture like I did when I was a kid.

Michael: Yeah, that makes a lot of sense because you know, one of the things that I do is I give myself sun exposure barefoot in winter. And I can only tolerate that depending on the day for maybe two minutes, some days longer and I realize it's not always sustainable. You know, I think there's so much information you've put out in the world, so much that we can find and access and personally I wanted to have this conversation with you because, I go back to times where I've traveled the world, where I've lived on beaches, where I've lived on islands, where I've lived in places where I can be accessible to nature. And as someone who has anxiety and PTSD, you know, it's been incredible and to even end this conversation, thinking to myself, the second this is over, I'm gonna go outside to the park across the street and stand barefoot for half an hour. Right. But obviously we can only cover so much information in a short period of time. Before I ask you my last question, can you tell everybody where they can find out more about you and about grounding?

Clint: Yeah. They can go to ultimatelongevity.com and they have all the information, the studies are all there, the movies there, they can get the book there, anything you wanna know, you can go to that website and they'll supply whatever information anybody would like or if anybody has questions. But the easiest resource for everybody to go and take a look at all of this and learn a little bit about it.

Michael: Brilliant. Yeah. And of course, we'll put the links in the show notes for the audience. My last question for you, my friend, what does it mean to you to be unbroken?

Clint: Well, unbroken, I spent a lot of my life broken in many different ways, emotionally, physically, sometimes, you know, a lot of pain, a lot of stress in my life. Today, I'm 78 years old, I have perfect health, I don't have cardiovascular disease, I don't have any health issues, I no longer have anything. So unbroken means to be healthy and happy and being in nature provides that for me, at being grounded to the earth and connected to the earth that provides it to me. So, it's really about happiness and wholeness and you're just a nicer person, you're a better person, you're more value to everybody that you're involved with or come in contact with so, you're an asset. So, being unbroken is the only place to be so do whatever you gotta do to get there.

Michael: I love that my friend. Thank you so much for being here. Unbroken Nation. Thank you for listening.

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