E156: Healing After Religious Trauma with Rachel Reinhart Taylor, M.D.| CPTSD and Trauma Healing Coach

Michael: Hey! What's up, Unbroken Nation! Hope that you're doing well, wherever you are in the world today. Super excited to be back with you in another episode with Dr. Rachel Reinhart Taylor. Rachel my friend, how are you today? What is going on in your world?

Dr. Taylor: I’m good, there’s a lot going on in my world.

Michael: I'm super excited to have you here. So for context, I asked you to come and be on the show because I was listening to you on a mutual friend Podcast Mental Illness, Happy Hour of Paul Gil Martin and I heard your story, I was like – oh, I've got to have this human being on the amazing story before we kind of jump in and we have the back and forth just high-level, can you kind of tell a little bit about your background and how you got to where you are today?

Dr. Taylor: Yeah, so I'll start with my professional training. So I have a medical degree in MD from the University of Utah where I graduated I started my training in surgery but because it was a single mom during medical school and decided strictly was going to be tough I want to spend time with my daughter and I switch to family medicine and then did Laurel emergency medicine for a couple of years and now I do, I did some frontlines work and during the pandemic and now I'm full-time telemedicine. So I'm board-certified in family medicine and you know that the other aspects are I'm very very interested in and optimizing people bodies without medications and supplements and things like that although I'm not opposed to them, I'm just very interested in how powerful are we inhaling our own bodies and optimizing, without before we use other things.

Michael: Yeah, that's really powerful. And I think that one of the things that really dawned on me and hearing you on Paul's podcast why I wanted to come over and have this conversation with you is because, you know, you look at your life and your trajectory of many of the things that have happened in that you've gone through and for you to come out the other side, I don't want to say seemingly, I think that's like dismissive that time but really being this place where you've taken control over your life and you've made it an effort to great energy around the impact of changing other people's lives and I recognize that in myself and part of it is our backgrounds, very similar. I don't know if you're familiar with the ACE Survey or Adverse Childhood Experiences Survey, but as it was done in the mid-90s and it kind of became this indicative factoring for determining long-term detrimental outcomes for people who suffered childhood trauma. It's a series of 10 questions, I answered yes, to all 10 of those questions, and I looked at kind of a thing that you were talking about in your experience of the childhood trauma experiences that you had, being misdiagnosed with bipolar, going through all these things and yet still coming out the other side. And so what I'm really curious, what I'd love to dive in and talk about here, to begin with, is kind of how in this journey have you been able to be, not only so resilient but to push yourself forward in a way where I think what happens in this was my experience we kind of without asking for help get we really stock?

Dr. Taylor: Yeah. I mean, you're absolutely right. I think we do really in the childhood trauma, I did read your story online and one of the things that I think is really creating a lot of divides, and a lot of difficulty with asking for help when you're stuck, is that we try to talk about differences, so, you know, I was going to say well your childhood trauma was like way worse or whatever than mine but the reality is that we all are dying for connection and connection so important for our healing and moving forward and asking for help, but we like to think well, it's not as bad or it could have been worse or whatever and really dismiss ourselves and therefore created a divine like this is how mine was different from yours instead I’m saying, how that feels, I think that more focus more on the very physical aspect, well, I didn't have my finger cut off or I didn't have for I did have this with you, but I haven't a different way or I'm a female and you a male. I think that we really take away that ability to say, yeah, but we both know how it feels to feel like no one cares. We both know how it feels to say, I'm not going to ask for help because every time I ask for help if things get more difficult or I think that we both and I think most of the population has the experience of saying, I need help to someone who was not good or healthy for us and they use, there was a phrase, I heard where he said, when you ask for help or when you're vulnerable with somebody, you hand them a loaded weapon, they don't and basically metaphorically I hope that literally, and they can either shoot you with it or use it to protect you. I think as a comic a shared human experience, we have all experienced a certain amount of people who use it to shoot us, you know, but the same day and I think, as children you want to help me to be protected and I think that really has created a lot of difficulty asking for help. But I think most of my life up until more recently actually when I started like slowing down, I didn't think anyone would have helped me and that is how she decided I need to both help myself and help everybody else. And, you know, mainly have shared experiences in using different substances to try to number way I think that we do that even, something is with Western medicine were so afraid to feel the feelings we know it away even by overmedicating sometimes. And I think also we have a great emphasis in making our society in General, on PTSD, Post-Traumatic Stress Disorder, but there is an alternative called post-traumatic growth and the post-traumatic growth is kind of, you can kind of see some, you can choose, you can say, wow! this is really awful, this is hard, I got through it and now you can have the experience to show other people and to inspire and to make things better for them.

Michael: Yeah. I found that in my experience that I fell into that accident, I mean there is no way where I look at my life and go this was my trajectory, you know, I was a kid, the only thing I ever wanted to do was not die, right? That that was it, that was my whole goal, that was on my whole mission, make it 18 and then I don't really know what's going to happen. And it's so put me on this crazy trajectory where, by my mid-twenties, my life was fully enveloped in chaos, and then I started going down this half of trying to take care of myself, trying to be better, trying to do all the things and by proxy, by accident, by divine intervention, whatever that means, you know, I've somehow fallen in this place of being of service. And I think that's all in part of the growth that came in that because I looked at and I said, well, shit, if I can make it through this and then there's got to be a way for other people too.

One of the things that we have in common is that we both grew up Mormon and our experiences while very different still have a lot of very similar parallels, not only that but and it depends on how deep you want to go and how far you choose to take this conversation. You know, looking at the very interesting parallel around abuse and around trying to really go for these things in life that aren't necessarily the healthiest and coming out the other side. What I'm curious about because and this isn't to make a point to go like, beat up, religion or anything like that but what is I know that there are people listening this right now who have had religious trauma, and I know that's something that's very new society and I know that somebody's going to email me and be like – go fuck yourself, how dare you to talk about religion and I'm okay with that, I step into that willingly. What I'm curious about is can you talk about your experience and growing up religious and then the pivot from moving into where you are in life now and how that's played a role in your journey?

Dr. Taylor: Yeah. Absolutely. You saw my email me and tell me to. Fuck myself too based on this religious discussion. So when I'm just going to say, I think the religion originally had the right idea, like the original principles are like, we're supposed to love other people and we're supposed to be kind to our neighbors, and we're supposed to, do kind things and acts of service and then I think that human beings, get a hold of those principles and then they make them very much about control and keeping someone else power for saying you can marry someone but only through the same religion as you. And I actually remember, what I was on one of the reservations, I was very, very, very interested in learning from the medicine because they would teach me and I just learned one that was talking about it and he was saying, you know, then he sends the white man, and then eventually said yeah, there are some people, some populations that take these like beautiful things and they like perm Earth and make them into something now that is used to flog and guilt and to say, I look better than this person or I'm worse or better than this person. And what I've come to find is that if you ever get to know in this place where you're just trying to look better than everyone else, you're isolating and not only that a lot of times you're starting to kind of hide, like, in my experience, we were hiding the angry outbursts and kind of pretend that everything was fine in the family, and we never talked about it because it was fine, we just needed to pray more or be go to church more and my mom needed to be more subservient to myself. I think creates this environment of; if you aren't flying to the Joneses and something's wrong with you and it's religion, you're not doing enough religion basically, but you know, I've done it. So I grew up Mormon as you mentioned and when I was 13 at my side my 13 years to figure it out, I was watching this guy talk and he was like, I loved my friend so much, I wanted to share the church is what they call it and therefore, the Mormon church with him and I thought to myself. Don't we say that God just loves everybody no matter who they are? And if that's so then, why is it matter what religion people are in? I think that it really is very individual based on how you want to go about becoming the best version of yourself. So, you know, I practice type of Buddhism called the chair in Buddhism for a few years when I was in residency and that was also beautiful based on everyone being equal, but there was still that aspect of, but you get extra blessings if you convert people. So, and then I always said, even if you say I'm Mormon or impression or whatever, there's always an aspect of that, you are kind of tinkering with like the rules on your own. No one's really anyone religion, there's always some sort of customizing to it. So why are we trying to pretend like we're something perfectly, when what happens is we're trying to suppress so badly what we perceive as our flaws and then those flaws get bigger and bigger and bigger, because we're trying to hide them and then we take that one our kids or our neighbors, we hate groups of people that don't deserve to be hated, you know, so not that you deserve to be, you know what I mean?

Michael: Yeah, you know and I think that a big part of it is and my experience with it growing up was kind of a church or one person and then at home your different person and I found that to hold true for a lot of people have had drastic religious trauma, whereas, you know at church everyone's a buttoned-up and clean-cut and good to go but at home, you're getting beat and locked in closets and molested and who knows what's happening and that was very much my experience. And coming through it, I remember one day I was sitting there and the Bishop who was like if you don't know this the leader of the specific church was talking and I just have this really interesting moment of insight and I was like, wait for a second, I bet that dude like beats his kids and that was the moment for me and I'm not saying he did or didn't and I certainly don't want to be dismissive of that but you know, I was like wait a second that to me feels like a really interesting misnomer that's not being addressed here because it's like follow the ten commandments, be honest, be kind, be all these things except when you're everywhere else but the church, and that pushed me into this place of wanting to kind of go into what's next. When you're having this experience and having it at a younger age, than most, right? And I think that there are people listening who may be having that experience right now. How did you start to navigate that? Like, what was it that became because it's such a part of identity, right? I think that's where I'm going with this. It's such a part of who you are, if you're Mormon people, often go home, I'm Mormon, by the way, I'm also Michael right? You know, it's always like a precursor to everything. So that for you like how did you start to navigate the shift?

Dr. Taylor: Thinking that I really like this question. You know, my mom would get pretty mad at us, I don't know if you did early morning Seminary, but we did it where we were supposed to go to church classes every morning from 5 to 6 a.m. before high school, and I kind of just started itching at things like that and I think, really, I kind of held on so I ended up, skipping two grades and I think my passion or my push to be pinned down with full, I think, was in part because I wanted to be out of the house. So I kind of just held on because I started college, I was 16, and then when I'm actually moved to Utah where my dad lived from California and actually in Utah, I kind of liked being that I think is maybe because I wasn't still teenager, I liked being that rebellious, I'm not Mormon, whatever and you tell a poem because Jack Mormons don't know if you've heard that before but I liked the rebellion every doll, it was a little difficult with my family, I didn't come back and end up marrying a Mormon guy when I was 19 a lot of it, and it says, to please my family and then realize, oh my God, my family doesn't give a shit like this house, has gained my unending evil from my parents, why did I do this? So, I don't think it really is and I'm finding this in my life really was kind of just saying, this is who I am, you can hate me, you can not like me, but the only person I'm not going to betray now is myself. I'm not gonna pretend to be happy in one place and then go home and have my parents screaming me or I was sexually assaulted when I was young, I'm not gonna pretend like that didn't happen but it goes back again to that, you know, the more we're pretending, the more walls were up, the more we're being divided from everyone else and I've actually, had a lot of friends that were more men and then decided, the kind of felt the same and felt very impressive I think, especially for women and now that women are like, oh, we don't have to one of the words is one of the phrases that use, serve your man or be the man is supposed to be like a beacon in the home and you're supposed to serve him and you know, this is all.

I'm a doctor now, like – I don't need someone to serve I want to, you know, and I think that for me, it mostly was women who I really encourage and talked to any religion and just informing just following those rules feel right to you then, no, okay, why are we following these rules? And again, I think that when we're designing what we look like, you know at church versus at home or at school on versus whatever, every time you do that, you really just you're dividing yourself, you're losing your power, you're trying to become something you're not. And that, I mean, this might sound real, you know, kind of ridiculous, but everyone has a very unique and talented personality and gifts we all need. So, the more you spend trying to be like Joe for the more I try to be like Michael, there's less Rachel in the world. Like, you know, not really comes with, I wouldn't say, like self-love. I think self-love, is this grand thing people are trying to accomplish with this comes with that little choosing yourself.

Choosing yourself every day when I'm tired, and I'm super exhausted and I don't want to go out and meet people or whatever, I just don't, I mean, I'm not perfect about it, but it's really just deciding, I'm not going to be someone else for someone else to be so comfortable. I'm gonna end it even goes to talking about things like sexual assault and rape and being, abused in the household and all of these things. And the more afraid we are to talk about it, especially with me being a doctor, if I'm afraid to ask someone if they've been sexually assaulted, my patients know there are several mechanisms by which people we'll pick up how you're actually feeling and we're doing I mean we can discuss the science about cotton on him. And really this is like if I'm sending signals to someone that it's not okay, to talk about this or it's not okay, to be a certain way, if I'm uncomfortable with myself, then this person sees this is not okay and this is not a safe place, and I think, you know, both of us are really, I don't know, you super well Michael, but from what I think we both really want to be a safe place for people.

So I really think the navigating it starts with one all just went all like okay, I'm going to choose like – I'm going to decide that, I don't believe that I should, you know, praying 300 times a day or whatever, I'm going to choose that little choice, I don't think that's something I have to do for my own spiritual connection, so it's just as well, it's a little by little. I think, especially me lately for some reason, I've been very impatient, with wanting things to come to fruition and just be this magical thing and easy and it's just you choosing little pieces.

Michael: Yeah, that's very beautifully said and I'm in agreement with you and I think so much of it, this applies in my opinion, to everything in your life is to follow your instincts, follow your gut, trust it, do the things you want to do and don't do the things, you don't want to do. And one of the most difficult aspects of that and I think that's where you really start to understand who you are is in that scope of the space of being who you are and that's what's really difficult about it is until you get to that place, you don't know that it's possible, but the only way that you can get there as you do the little things day in and day out, and sometimes that means not going to Seminary at 5:00 in the morning and sometimes that means, I grew up a Mormon, Boy Scout that meant not going to Boy Scouts that, all of these things and that doesn't apply only to religion. And I know somebody's going to sit here and listen be like, you guys are beating up on religion, that's not what we're doing but we're talking about choices, we're talking about decisions, we're talking about what it means to really take ownership of your life. I think it would be missed to not talk about this idea that PTSD or C PTSD when we start to have these traumatic experiences in childhood, start to impact our DNA and I know that you know, about this and I want to dive into this because I want to also create some very practical conversation here for people listening around the education, in the science of this. Can you talk about the methylation process of DNA in consideration of PTSD and how that's passed down from generation to generation? And for people who just got super lost, please, I know Rachel's going to explain that in-depth, so hang with us here.

Dr. Taylor: Okay, all right. Thank you. Oh my gosh, I'm such a nerd about science. So everyone gets ready to see like ultimate nerd over here. So one thing that is really kind of amazing is that it has been now proven especially in veterans, which family isn't an easy group to study in the sense that you can take one sample before the war and after the war and see how their DNA has changed at all because unfortunately, we know that war is kind of a tried-and-true place where people come back with PTSD. So there's been a lot of studies, you know, verifying that they have what's called methylation of DNA like you mentioned this is just a carbon group, that simple carbon group that in our methyl group is what it's called, then put onto the DNA, depends on where it's put on the DNA, how, what it will create or not create basically. So, this is what I really love to talk about is, you know, people think that I did and then we might get this later, but the mind-body, there's a strong connection, I see a strong connection I even say the same thing. When you're seeing something traumatic, witnessing something traumatic, that creates that PTSD, which then in your body, creates a change in your DNA and it's not just oh, and I get a lot of this, I'm not just man, just like some weekly who can't pull out of it. If your DNA and literally changed your body is changed they've done a lot of looking for different medicines, there are different IDs, infusions, and stuff, trying to reverse this methylation of the DNA and so far I don't know anything that actually can successfully do that.

However, there are some amazing studies on mice that are showing early promise they say, accuse my son of methylation of DNA, or DNA changes comedy in a change and they have what's called a quote carefree adult life and it starts to reverse this methylation and I do a talk about this in my book like okay, we all kind of laughing, yeah, we're going to have a carefree adult life but really what it is kind of about change like, okay, I made not be able to help that I'm getting divorced, for example, but I can reframe it as the detours, I can teach myself how to believe that even these bad things. I mentioned before we started recording, you know, I had a small stroke in February for various reasons, but I have to reframe, I mean, it was really, really hard. I had to believe there was a reason, I had to take a detour because, for some reason, it's going to end up, making me stronger better to do X, Y, and Z.

So the whole line is that can we change is really, really in research, but it's possible that it starts reversing itself. If we can kind of refrain, kind of find ways to roll with the punches, soberer versus saying, my life is horrible happening, we need to really, you know, that's the kind of thing I love teaching people. And then, as far as transgenerational, they're finding a lot of the same DNA changes and parents and children.

A more recent study showed and lead up to seven generations is, they're finding that DNA change. So, you know, then you can put this out into bigger populations, I think that we think if a mom is rates than their child's more likely to be raped and that's true but even if that doesn't have another child, they may carry that same kind of DNA change, which may translate to the same fears and the same PTSD without experiencing that and if you think that to why maybe this would be good evolutionarily, you can imagine if you are on the planes and you see a tiger eat a man, then your DNA changes watch out for Tigers, I think very haywire in society, in which we live now, and there are ways through verses that were working on and I have successfully, I have not changed, what did the DNA? But I've successfully helped people understand that don't like; don't want to talk about their problems and help them understand that their body and making that change and it's not just in their head, something they're going to work out, it's something that needs I wouldn't take some action, an active approach to. Creating an environment that does feel more carefree for you because lives commend my skin life, it's just gonna happen either way and we gotta find ways that feel more carefree and we can hope and I needed by the way you twist tighter in some cases, it's hard to replicate, there's just so many different implications for that.

Michael: When you're in this place of trying to step into a carefree life and trust me when I say it's not lost on me how incredibly difficult that is, I'm always trying to do that, I think that there are inherent stressors carried in my DNA that I can point and pinpoint, not only do being, you know, half African – West Nigerian, but half Irish, and carrying that church, homelessness, poverty, all those things. So, here I am in my life heading into the second half almost and looking at it and going, well, how the hell do you have a less stressed and more carefree life. Is there are some like in what I would call incredibly practical ways that you think that as trauma survivors people can step into that?

Dr. Taylor: Yeah, absolutely. So, I'm a bleeding heart. I am also very Irish as you might be able to tell from the little ginger, my ginger hair, and my very pale skin, so they can but the idea is that we can make these changes without my ideal is to make all of these changes kind of without medications or supplements or things that are not available to the populations that mean the most really. So I have a bleeding heart and it started, you know, I'm a bleeding-heart 4-under through populations. So and it really came to my attention that while medical missions are amazing, I love doing the medical work, sometimes, you'll give medications and they don't have that, they don't have another doctor, they have no way to get the medication again, there's no pride, you know, this is also repeated, night working on reservations here, in our own country.

There's are so many populations that just don't have money to pay for it, which I don't think is ridiculous. You know, I had a stroke in West Berlin from work and I couldn't afford therapy and stuff at that time, so through medical school, I'm going on with Medicare or so Medicaid and all of that.

So it's not absurd to think that literally any of us could it, and plan our lives, not have access to these things that cost so much money, including the new therapy and like I said, in Western medicine all in violence.

So I really, really, really have become interested in the last now, 12 years since medical met my first medical mission. I'm so interested in how can population, what does the science say about Tom populations can optimize their own health without needing someone else's like basically, without spending money. So there are a few things, I don't know if you're familiar with neuroplasticity, neuroplasticity is when we can create new neuron connections in our brain or new connections, in our brains, and a lot of times it might have one injury. So for example, a stroke and I had the opportunity to kind of rebuild that and actually when people exercise even though it increases their ability to kind of remodel their brain, that neuroplasticity and then there are other foods or certain types of meditation and you can remodel your homework things. You have to do things that are going to, I like the word potentiate them basically tell your brain, we're changing now and then when you're doing those have to be very, very, very mindful that you are focusing on the way you want your outlook to become.

So they're not so their refusal to as far as their opacity, there's some medicated, a kind of Mia is, by the way, I do not endorse using that of the tree that, please don't do that, it's very dangerous, but you can do, there are like a fusion center that are used and Physicians Overlook people who have PTSD and anxiety and depression and things like this, to help them, literally remodel their brain.

There was a yell study recently that showed psilocybin that in the like, active ingredient in magic mushrooms, again, exercise caution with this advice, but that does, cause your brain to say, we're remodeling you. And then again, different types of breathing meditation exercises and things that there's medicine, there's a meditation, you can increase. There's been a part of your brain sentiments gray matter that helps you when you do this meditation, it helps that area develop and that area is helpful in controlling emotions and making decisions in high-stress situations. It's not like well, my life stocked and now it's locked forever, it's like okay, look, the science is showing that you can remodel this and you can fix it. And then you, if you change that, if using neuroplasticity to change your outlook, then your life starts feeling more carefully, you can see things I can see my stroke as a detour to get to a place where my life is going to be better instead of this was the worst thing ever, I hate you, I'm screwed forever, what have another one would have been, you know, you have to actively choose them though, I mean, it's a marathon, not a sprint, you have to choose that all the time.

I think, you know, I mean, he talked about all the time to do, every time you make a decision that you can make that decision, help remodel your brain by meditating, by exercising and then knowing your brain was in remodel mode, so you're going to choose differently than before and that's all free and accessible to everybody.

Michael: Yeah, and that's such a great point. And it's so much of this does really start with the way that you're thinking, the way you're talking yourself, the way that you're allowing yourself to be in the world and I recognize it's difficult, right? Especially when you're inundated with the ideas that other people have put on you of who you are, who you should be and then you reiterate that into yourself and into the world and then suddenly you look at your life You know, like how the fuck did I get here? And it's a trial by fire to pull yourself out but you know you talk about one thing I think is really interesting that that would love for you to dive into in and I have gotten pushed back on this and so I will preface this that and I will say, I have gotten quote-unquote canceled because of saying this before and this is the idea that anybody can be healthy if they're willing to do the work and I fully believe that. Look, I'm not smart, I'm not better than anyone, I don't have any college fucking degrees like I didn't graduate high school on time, I've destroyed my life and built it back up. I believe that it takes the same amount of effort to build your life as it does, to destroy your life. And I want to know your thoughts on this because I think that sometimes it helps to come from another voice but why do you think that anyone can be healthy if they're willing to do the work?

Dr. Taylor: Yeah. Well, I mean, that is definitely I'm gone. It's hard for doctors to get canceled I think because the anus is so bad, but, you know, I'm essentially loved or hated by my patients, more loves and goodness and sometimes very much hated, and in a lot of this is that some believe, you know, I'm will tell people, you can get there, you can be healthy if you want to be and I think that really for me saying these things I can back it up with the science. I mean neuroplasticity just told you about. You can lower your blood pressure by meditating every day, let my God says shown scientific study, you can lower your risk of heart attack and stroke by meditating and there are certain types of meditation and these are all studying, you know, you can your bunch of your gets better when you meditate, everyone has a reason why they can't, or they're different, or they blah blah blah, but honestly, I've seen a lot of bodies and treat a lot of patients and in surgery, we are and I'm Primary Care there is nobody I have seen that I'm like, no, this wouldn't have some never ever ever have I seen that before. I don't care how sick you are, you can improve by doing things by only changing your mindset, I mean it's chronic pain, arthritis, I can literally me, 100 diseases that I'm worked with and revert, woman Academy, Madras top of my head, but there are lots of them worked with that I have gone able to reverse at least in part, this is science and it's all I got in science in my book and if anyone needs a book and they can pay for please reach out to me. I'm happy to see if we can figure something out and play send you one but I wrote that book, I wasn't looking to be rich, I wasn't looking to like be super famous, I just not in the book of all of the ways you can be healthy and free that, I know that I knew with the time I know more now, too.

So I would be shocked and I thought any patient that actually, again, hunker down worked with me and that didn't have a reversal of there are symptoms, I'm literally cannot think of any reason why that wouldn't happen and we can work with it if you're busy single mom, I think about it and we can talk to you then you don't have the money, try and do this for free access to anyone who can access it from anywhere. You know, I have families coming in the book, I talk a lot about this patient bus driver is work 12-hour shifts, he's like, I didn't have to go too long, so, we got this thing where he, like, talked about busting in, like, ten jumping jacks, you know, the result and was fun and I kind of pretty healthy, okay, we're gonna do 1 cup of leafy greens, that in the bag makes seven bags and there's someone like the spinach on Monday and you can just end up putting it in your mouth and having to shoot on this, finish like a rabbit, that's fine, that's how we're going to do good, in this case, won't pressure came down. We reverse the same retention, got them off of three medications, we got, you know, he had a family history of diabetes, which which is true okay can be a precursor, but that doesn't mean you have to be reversed his. I think he was someone Medication but I'm going to check them off of too, that's five medications he didn't need anymore by making really easy lifestyle changes and really just I think it comes with citing, the sciencing here's the deal, this is what will happen, this was a little change in your body when you make these tiny changes and again, this is not expensive, this is meant on purpose to be preaching news.

Michael: Yeah, what do you think and for the sake of time, I won't keep you for too much longer. I love this topic here and this is what I want to ask this question you've talked about at length, emotional cognition and I think about this idea about how we mirror each other, how our neurons marry each other, and I think change is really, really difficult when you're around people who aren't also changing. What are your thoughts on that? How do you navigate that knowing from a literal biological standpoint like, we reflect our environment?

Dr. Taylor: Yeah, you mean emotional contagion?

Michael: Yes. Thank you.

Dr. Taylor: Yeah. Emotional contagion I believe and it came about before we really have a lot of science to back around but it kind of was I thinking observed kind of more in the like psychological realm of observations so it's like your boss is having a bad day, he comes in and he's angry and then all of a sudden, the whole office is just that is seen with that. I use myself, I researched all the things I'm telling you are not like I was taught this specific thing like I raised her jaw home, my own individual way to come up with a solution is because there's not already the solution in place if there was we wouldn't have a problem.

So, you know, the things I've seen that can cause issues and you know, I talk a lot of physician burnout Summits to because, as you might know, or not know, positions actually have the highest suicide rate of any profession. So more than one physician who had a tollbooth also. A lot of it is when we have a grouping of mirror neurons, that will reflect someone back to you actually, your brain will light up in a way that if you are doing the same thing this other person is doing. So for example, there were monkeys and one monkey would watch the other monkey eating and the same neurons would light up, he's watching me and then they found that the monkey could tell whether what the intention was basically. So the monkey goes to grab a banana and he decides to then throw it the other monkey way could throw his intention that he was going to throw and then the next banana, I picked it up, and then he decides these mirror neurons can reflect. What a lot of people say, oh this explains telepathy, but it is helping us understand how connected we are and all of those stressors and all of the stuff we have to pick up some other people are again, it can raise, I pull the trigger, a pressure, all things that migraines, headaches, constipation, not sleeping, insomnia, people don't realize we're not fine. There's also another thing called coherent, we can detect our electron-proton, electromagnetic fields outside of a 20kgs fields and these are actually powered to be with emotion and you can actually coordinate your electromagnetic field with someone within 18 inches’ video and so you really need to know how to all of these things are happening whether you wanted to or not, is not like your conscious control that you can really learn how to optimize these things and that's true, you're going to be around a lot of people who are super grouchy, this is why it's really really important for you to know how we do our own kind of I guess body or energy, I guess. So ever you want to say that the moon sound stigma in a way that you can you know absorb the information. You need to know how it feels to be in your own body without all these other people around so that when you're not around the grouchy people or the people who are not having us such a good day, you're not just coordinating your body with them and just allowing yourself to be, then in that mood forever and ever, you need to realize basically it's not normal but a lot of it takes some practice. I'm happy to have to teach anyone, but it takes some practice.

Michael: Yeah and I imagine that with emotional contagion that it's very much, a practice of just awareness, right? That's what I hear like be aware, pay attention yourself, maybe predicate this whole thing with a little bit of exercise, a little bit of meditation, a little bit of like getting your brain in your body connected because often, you know, especially if you've had severe trauma, you're going to be dissociated, you're going to be, you know, living life and LaLa Land, which was my experience for a very long time, so there's practicality in this. Rachel this has been an absolutely amazing conversation, I'm sure we could go deeper and deeper and deeper but before I ask you, my last question, can you tell everyone where they can find you?

Dr. Taylor: Oh, yeah, just racheltaylormd.com and you can email me go straight into my personal email talking about I'll get back to you right away. Just go through the contact form, then the booking stuff has been taken down temporarily, I'm willing to work with people, if they want to work with me, though, but the bouquet son was taken down when I had that little stroke because I needed time to heal myself.

Michael: Yeah. I totally get, that trust me. So that said, thank you so much for being here, my last question for you my friend is, what does it mean to you to be unbroken?

Dr. Taylor: You know, for me, I'm really good that the science of self-healing what I was telling you in all of this being unbroken it's not even that you were never broken I think the people have that mistaken. When you cut yourself you got a scar, that scar is stronger than regular skin, you're stronger. There's also a Japanese form of pottery where when the pottery Briggs, they see all the cracks with gold to show like this pottering and how beautiful the tracks and beautiful that, you know, flaws can be and I think that really is unbroken to me to be someone who's stronger, someone who turns back in and gives a hand since I've been there before me, if you out, I think that's unbroken to me.

Michael: Beautifully said, my friend, thank you so much for being here.

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