E165: Spirit, Body, Soul, and Attachment styles with Virginia Dixon | Trauma Healing Podcast

Hey! What's up, Unbroken Nation! Hope that you're doing well, wherever you are in the world today. I'm very excited to be back with you for another episode with Virginia Dixon. Virginia friend, how are you today? What is going on in your world?

Virginia: Hi, Michael. Well, what's going on in my world is peace, thankfully, I just love this month and for some reason it's just a wonderful time to unwind and I know it's a little hectic for most people, but for some reason, I've learned to just embrace the end of a long year and just enjoy the peace of it all. So not much and I'm very happy, I'm very happy to be having this conversation with you today because I've become acquainted with your work and I'm so impressed that it's just an honor to be speaking with you today.

Michael: Well, the honor is all mine, I assure you, my friend. So for context, those who don't know who are not familiar with R.E.S.T or what you do, another podcast of things of that nature. Can you tell us a little bit about your background and how you got to where you are today?

Virginia: Sure. My backgrounds in the field of psychology and in the social sciences, studied neuroscience at UCI and for some reason, as I endeavored to pursue education in that field, I was uncomfortable and I felt that there were limitations, and various aspects of formal education, because I didn't see how they were addressing the need of the whole person and I had this 40-year long desert experience where I realize the limitations of all the disciplines that addressed issues of mental health. And anyway, I developed R.E.S.T., the reconstitution approach to healing over a very long period of time and I tend to speak to the philosophy, what's true and what's not. And the theology, God is our God is and these are fundamental root questions of how the soul works through the brain in the body.

Michael: That's so fascinating to me. And I think that often there is this interesting juxtaposition that is happening between our conscious and our subconscious and trying to figure out a navigate really effectively what you were just speaking to. And what I'm curious about is when you are in this process and you're looking at, wait a second, I feel like there's something missing in this conversation that is thus led you to where you are now, was there something particular that caught your attention more like wait a second – this doesn't feel copacetic or missing the boat somewhere like where does that really come from?

Virginia: Mental health is the number one health crisis we're facing in America today. And I feel like formal education and certainly, the medical field and the professional field have had control of the narrative for what 50, 60, some years. And I think how is it possible that we're using all the resources available and this is the number one health crisis we're facing in America today, something's missing and I think that's what I found so compelling about your story, there are all these Specialists, right? And all these feels but were not addressing the whole individual, we're not taking an integrative functional approach to this dilemma and I know where these conversations have been going on in medicine, integrative medicine, and allopathic medicine and these big conversations have been going on for a long time, but I don't think we have any more time to waste.

I think this is why I was so excited about the conversation, I'm having with you, your whole narrative here, that about Unbroken, right? How R.E.S.T. is instrumental in thinking about what's Unbroken and I think it's understanding the power that the individual has to step into wholeness, which is really the basis of your whole story. And so, just the whole narrative, your whole life story falls in line with what I believe is instrumental to expand the conversation beyond conventional methods, and that we've got to access resources, that we've dismissed. And that is the voice of what's sacred within the hunger; how about this? It's what the hunger within, every human soul to live, and to be free, and to step into wholeness and I think that's what brought me to this place. Seeing the limitations in the resources that we've had available to us for the last 40, 50 years everything's been so segregated that there isn't a holistic approach to the needs to address I should say the needs that were facing.

And R.E.S.T. the reconstitution approach to healing is a method that really addresses the philosophy and the theology of how the soul works through the brain in the body psychoneuroimmunology. And I think I just invite people into this space, to have a conversation, really of how to address what's fragmented in them, what's broken in them. And I've never, for example, Michael just, by way of example, I've never met an addict, the did not a person struggling with addictions I should say that does not have a broken heart and shattered soul, never, I've never it's a matter of fact, the people that struggle with addictions in the family, are generally the ones that have the most tender hearts and there was no way to displace the combustion of feelings and emotions and things that drown them. And so this is what really compelled me to step into this pilgrimage of finding solutions that are more integrative that address every facet of a person.

For example, well, we are a soul, a spirit, this quantum field of energy and there's so much written about that in you and I talked in our last segment, about all the resources available to our listening audience and to us, about, let's say, quantum physics about this energy field, call it, whatever you want, this spiritual realm, right? That speaks to laws of nature, but these in this quantum field of energy we talked about that in the context of the spirit here and rest quite a bit, but how it works through the soul? It's directed and regulated, right? Good, bad, darkness, light, truth, lies, I don't know what some people talk about in the context of demons and angels and demons God, Satan, it doesn't matter; there's this quantum field of energy that manifests. And according to the counsel of the will of the soul of a man mind, heart, will, conscience feelings, we decide what we access and depending on what the soul, the mind, the heart, the will, the conscience of a person accesses it determines what happens to that energy that we draw from where it's light or dark, good or bad, however, you want to discuss it, it doesn't matter. Ultimately the will of the man trump's all and according to what the conscience of a person decides determines what energy goes to the brain and is distributed through the body. I don't know if that just sounded too convoluted but helping people really understand that there are these three facets to who they are, I don't know anyone discipline in today's academic culture that can fully address all those facets of a person.

So I think people like you; half that are addressing the problem and where that's left us as a generation, there's any pill that's going to fix this; there isn't anyone method that's going to resolve this problem.

Michael: I tell people frequently I'm like – you will never do one thing and change your life and I'm not saying there's no efficacy and prescriptions because there certainly are you can look at or its form uses is SRI and you can see the benefit of that. You can measure cognitive behavioral therapy and gestalt and how impactful those are but I think that there's so much more of a relationship between mind, body, and spirit, all these things that need symbiosis in order for you to really start to create effective change in your life. And part of me would say, like the reason I believe that we are in this position is not only from the financial aspect of the monetary side where you go look at like companies like Pfizer, an Eli Lilly, which those are easy to pinpoint because they're right there but also because when you go measure the DSM, where's the conversation about spirituality? Where's the conversation about wholeness? Where's the conversation about Consciousness in this different scope? I mean, when you look at you consider 95% of the actions we make in our life, our subconscious.

How are we not having a deeper conversation about the reprogramming of all the conditioning that's led to this moment where we have these behaviors and that's why I think what you're talking about is so incredibly fascinating because it is addressing human beings as a whole and we're having this human expensive to negate that almost feels neglectful/negligent and yet we live in a society, especially if you live in the United States. I was watching a television show the other day and literally, in an hour's show, there were seven commercials for pharmaceuticals. How is that the solution?

Virginia: But, you know, what's great, Michael about the time, in which we are living? It's an assault on people's conscience and I cannot tell you in a given year all the people patients at the clinic that used to come in to see me or are cancer patients and clients their different, right? When I served as director of inner healing at a clinic nearby, and I had my private practice where I saw clients and I'm really big on education, like – you are, right?

So one of the things that became really shocking to me, was the amount of drugs and meds these people were put on and it became such an assault on their conscience, honestly, it's like I cannot in good conscience continue this, I don't even feel me anymore, I don't even know who I am. I'm afraid to go see another doctor because they're going to prescribe another thing to resolve the consequence of the last seven things I was given. And my body just can't seem to catch up and regulate the reality of what I'm dealing with help. I can't tell you the amount of people that just want to get off their meds and as you said, they do have a place, they have had a place, but this situation is completely out of control.

Michael: I don't want to caveat, excuse me, I want to dive deeper into that. Do you think that there is a level of that, in which, you know, you find someone who was deep within pharmaceutical because the doctor said, this is what you're supposed to do? Perfect example, my grandmother and her 50s inter 60s, she was on literally 30 different medications and part of me wonders is that just based in these lies, we tell ourselves because we've allowed to determine who it is that we are and what we're supposed to do to take care of ourselves.

Virginia: Well, listen to what you just said, right? Your hundred percent spot on. And by the way, I'm not slamming, I'm not here to slam anybody or any institution. I'm here to call people into this place of rest as you, well, know, so, they can engage all of their constituents, their spirit, their soul, their body, and the reason about the condition, they find themselves in. 100%, there is so much confusion and chaos, and dizzy's about what the best standard of care is, but at the end of the day, I tell clients and patients and people all the time; the standard of care must ultimately be determined by that quiet still voice that is saying something is not right here.

The fact that you're coming here with a bag, full of 12 to 25 medications and saying I am not, okay, it's a matter of fact, I feel depressed, I feel more anxious, I'm suicidal or I feel empty like there's a vacuum in my soul. Well, what are your thoughts? What do you think you need you should do? Can you help me triage? Can you help me figure out how to get my life back? And it's an incredible journey to embark on with people because yes, they can't get their life back and by the way, many times the therapists that call or the psychiatrist or psychologist, that call me I want to work in collaboration with them not against them and I will tell you many, many times I get calls from psychologists and psychiatrists that asked me, how can you and I work together to help them accomplish their goals? So I think there is an awakening taking place and I do think there are amazing doctors that are seeing the scope of the problem and the severity of the problem and they're wanting to help their patients. So I think it's an incredible opportunity we have to work and collaborate with one another.

Michael: Yeah. I've noticed that's happening as well and it feels like for a period of time it was kind of; for lack of a better way to face its phrase, it just peoples at battle with each other, my way is the right way. And I was thought to myself one time I was in the doctor was dealing with the intestinal issue and it was like this, doctors tell me, conflicting information, another one and it dawned on me that people are trying to be right, there not trying to accomplish the goal. And I think that's one of the really interesting things because you have these patients, these clients, these people who are just they feel buried, they feel like they're just dead inside because they all these people whose values are not in alignment and thus, you know, their succumbing to ideologies that maybe are not actually right for them, but they don't really understand who they are, right?

One of the things I think is important and not necessarily just whether or not, it's in therapy or prescription drugs or anything but life in general is like trying to understand your core values when it comes to healing because I think killing is all these three elements that you talked about. How does one understand, what it is that they know and what they're trying to understand who they are and their core values?

Virginia: It's a great question. There are three stories that I believe we're always trying to negotiate and this is what I've observed from working with patients specifically cancer patients. There are three stories, were always trying to negotiate and that's a story that of design, right? Laws of nature, things that are self-evident and speak to our natural affections, there's this story that says something inside of me wants to live, right? And we have an anatomy that bear was witness of that and then there's a story that we tell ourselves from our experiences in our soul, our mind, our heart, our will, our conscience, our feelings there's that narrative, we're always trying to negotiate and then there's a story that we carry in our DNA.

Our stories, don't begin at home, they begin in the home of the home, of our parents, parents, parents. So three, for generations deep there is a work of recall healing and Dr. Hammer from German new medicine expounded upon by. Dr. Gilbert Renauld recalls healing, which really speaks in powerful ways to that. So there's a story of our very constitution, substantiated, and well, explained by laws of nature, things that are self-evident again and speak to our natural affection.

There's a story, we tell ourselves from our experiences and the ideas and the thoughts that we got from our families of origin in our experiences, by the way, starting from conception, right? And in the womb, and our first formative years of life and throughout and then the stories of our anatomies and I think reconciling those three stories is where we find incredible freedom.

For example, with you, Michael something in you knew intuitively that I don't know, this isn't right. So you used all kinds of means and methods, right? And resources to silence that, to mitigate that, to reconcile that and they weren't productive. So, at some point, you decided you know what? This is not for me, so I'm going to just bring it into it all and somehow as providence would have it. You know, you weren't successful in that attempt, call it whatever you want, divine intervention, chance, accident, I think it because looks what you're doing now. I think it was divine intervention personally, but then you have the reality of the heritage that you bring to bear, and that legitimate experiences that are in your issues; the issues are always in the tissue, right? And that is very real and the disparity between this hunger of your soul, this thing of what's happening in my life, right? That you're negotiating through these experiences, you have and the trauma that you're bringing in from these generational patterns, right?

The disparity between those things is where we find the anatomy of disease and addictions and all these things. So, what happened, at some point, you reached the bottom and I love how you address that and you talk about reaching rock bottom, that rock bottom is really a beautiful and wonderful and great place to be and we were talking about this a little bit ago because there's nowhere else to go but up if you can just accept that hey, this is rock bottom for me whatever that is for you individual or if listening audience if you can recognize, hey, there's only one other place I can go from here and that's up, right? Because I can't get any lower than this, we all have different margins, right? But then you begin to decide, you begin to choose, you begin to dig, you begin to learn, you begin to turn every stone, you begin to reach out, like you were talking about earlier, looking for mentors, looking for information. We have the web now, we have the internet, we have YouTube, we have amazing resources at our disposal, we have amazing counseling, amazing podcast to listen to, so there is no excuse, why we have to give in to the disparity of whatever situation we find ourselves in. Nobody takes our life from us, we give it away.

Michael: Yeah. I have this thought just this question just popped into mind. What do you think is the biggest misnomer or misconception that people have about their own Mental Health?

Virginia: That it's inherited, that there's no way out without medication, that they're the victims of circumstances. I think the most tragic bit of information that people believe is the lies of why they find themselves in the situations they find themselves in. I think people don't realize how powerful they are. I think people do not understand that thoughts have power and words, have authority. It's one thing to have thoughts that are limited, but it's another thing to begin to speak them into being. Words have power, thoughts have power, words have authority. We have to be very careful about the things we speak, we're better off asking questions, seeking information to get us out of situations that we find ourselves in. Then we are to get together with a friend over a beer or glass of wine and continue to complain or we have very sophisticated ways of complaining, right? Fancy and sophisticated ways of complaining but it's tragic because those would seem like nominal conversations or relatively insignificant, just shooting the breeze with somebody, they have devastating consequences in your entire constitution and in your life.

Michael: How do you show them? I hear what you're saying. How do you reconcile the thought pattern of well, my mother was bipolar, and my father was bipolar? And so that this means I must be bipolar and then you add on all of the extra extremities of the world that we live in and being in a fear-based society and all the things that lead to this place where I feel like people have lost the ability to freely decide by the person that they are and dealing with and that's not to be disparaging so I want to be very clear, it's very much about this conversation of our people just lying to themselves to the point that even though they could have a thought that maybe it's not true, that all of that stuff has led to where they are, they're more comfortable, and living in the lie. Does that make sense to you?

Virginia: Completely, and I think one-third. Look, we're spirit working through a soul and a body, we have three constituents, right? That's our image. The identity we get from design is because everything in your body is working to live, your brain is working very hard as we said earlier to sustain your life, right? So there's something in our design that wants life and wants to sustain life, and is designed and created to sustain our life, that's our body, right? So there's that story, but then there's a story of our mom and our dad, and our ancestors, and I've observed that oftentimes 1/3 of the equation, gets 100% of the responsibility. So there's this beautiful intricate design that makes us makes up who we are, there's this amazing mother and father that we have lot is a maybe they gave us life and I find that more often than not, our life tends to be a little bit better most of the time then there's was even though it was lacking, right? I mean your mom didn't abort, you, your mom gave you life and yes, she was out of her mind with drugs and all kinds of things like that, which I'd like to address that briefly in ways that perhaps her a little bit unconventional to bring in the spiritual constitution of drug use and drug abuse and the spiritual element that brings into a dynamic, right? I want to address that and in a little bit, but you have the design, so you have your image, spiritual body, you have your identity, which you get from this design, this intricate design, that makes up who we are then there's the story of mom and there's a story of dad and then the story of our ancestors. And I just find sometimes we know very little about our ancestors and our parents but one-third of the equation gets 100% of the responsibility. And so we give away so much power and do not understand the incredible power of the design of the image we bear and the identity that we have work for fitting all of our identity to one-third of the equation and then it affects the purpose that means the value in our life. So one of the things that I think is imperative is to understand, don't oversimplify things, we're very complex beings, and even the narrative of our lives and of our stories, those are complex is like a giant, jigsaw puzzle. There may be a lot of pain, a lot of tragedy, and a lot of heartache in it, but there's a mystery in all of this too. And for some reason here I am in time and in spite of all these dynamics and in spite of my ignorance and in spite of the brokenness I come from something inside of me since I want life and I want to live and I want peace, right? So I help people understand well, three things. How do you love it? What's your attachment style? What are the hangers that drive you? And then hey, let's study and know and understand all these pieces I said makeup who you are. So there are all these moving parts that I try to bring into focus for people so they can feel hope and excessing greater measures of freedom. And of course, Michael, I don't know if you're aware of it or not, but I use biofeedback technology, I use ecosystems to see what's happening in a person's brain. I really start with the confusion, the chaos and disses that a person's caring and their anatomy, right? Why? So I can have access to their soul? So I do go after decompressing, the central nervous system in order to access those deeper, narratives in a person's soul so I can peel back the layers of where the confusion, the chaos that they find themselves in and bring them and give them a path into freedom.

Michael: That's right, beautiful, and so much of that I just sit here and go, I wish we had nine hours right now so I could dive into every element of what you just said, but a couple of things come to mind and one first and foremost, you talk about attachment styles, I'll save us, I haven't said this publicly on an episode yet but when I discovered, my attachment style was anxious avoidant everything in my life changed because I believe entirely and vehemently that the number one thing that you can do as a trauma survivor is learn, that's why education is everything to me. And so, if you don't know the attachment styles like I think it's profound and I think you're going to discover more about yourself and look, I'm not necessarily like let's go label every single element about who we are as a human being, but in order to get to where you want to go, you have to understand how you got to where you are and all those experiences they do help shape and form you to an extent until you get to the point where you start to bring awareness to them, you make meaning of those experiences and then you decide to like, is this on my shelf, or is this on the trash can, like, do I need this? Is it bringing me value or is it taking from me? And I spent a long time trying to figure out, why do I sabotage relationships? Why do I tear down everything around me when it's going well? You know all that because you to me, it's like causation and correlation, you need to have the framework and understanding of how you got to where you are. I would love if briefly, you would be willing to just go call high level around attachment styles because there are people listening, who have never heard the two words before.

Virginia: Great. I'd love to. If you put your hand up, Michael. This is the easiest way, I teach this to teenagers too, I teach has two children. Five fingers; five is a number for grace and so, I think the fact that we have two hands double Grace, that means I always have excessive access to unmerited favor, the universe gives me unmerited, a favor by the fact I have these two beautiful hands. So I explained a lot of complex things that I have to simplify for people with the hands, attachment is one of them. The pinky, the thumb, and the index finger, you can see that the index finger overpowers the thumb, right? This is what a chaotic home looks like in your home as in my home, I'm the daughter of immigrants, right? So, we immigrated to America, and with that comes a lot of chaos, there's a lot of attachment issues that come with that, right? It's painful to leave your country and come to America for example, or to come to another country.

So those homes tend to be chaotic generally in a chaotic home, there's a measure of, there are addictions, there's abuse or there's a sense that life is dangerous emotionally, physically, or spiritually dangerous, and unpredictable. And usually, a child is the victim of circumstances, right? And your case, it was physical and emotional and very serious abuse and in mine, I was a victim of political circumstances and that's why we left my country, right? But there's still the sense of hopelessness, excuse me, helplessness that comes with it. And this index finger represents somebody had to be in control of those circumstances, but the child feels like they don't have a voice, okay? So these homes are tending to behave a measure of danger and by the way, everything I'm going to talk about is in a spectrum of one to ten, then you have your middle finger and that's a childhood grows up in a place where there's been abandonment, right? And they're hyper vigilant, so this is the vacillator. So the five attachment styles so far that I've mentioned is the victim the thumb, the index finger is the controller addiction of homes, generally very chaotic, or a measure of chaos, in a spectrum, the middle finger is a child who has been abandoned their hyper vigilant because they don't know what to expect from their environment and their situations or circumstances, so they're hyper vigilant. I see a lot of bipolar personalities and I see this attachment style, that shows itself up with that diagnosis, why? Because there are high highs, there are low-lows and it's usually predicted the behaviors usually predicted and dominated by the behavior and the circumstances outside of them. They don't know how to behave, or how to act, they don't know what they feel or what they're going to act until they determine and take the pulse of what's going on around them. The ring finger is like a wedding finger, right? That's a pleaser, a pleaser generally grew up in a home where a parent or two were hyper-vigilant and critical. When a parent is hyper-vigilant, they tend to be critical because they have high levels of anxiety so the child wants to please to minimize anxiety and then the pinky alone out by themselves, their avoiders, they're pretty much left to themselves because Mom and Dad are working or parents are gone or the child is just like a perfect child of parents, don't parent much for whatever reason, the child's left on their own. Now, you can imagine that when we grow up and chaotic homes to some extent, we vacillate, we please, and we avoid because we try all those things and you can probably speak to that till the cows come home but you try all of those adaptive behaviors if you will, why to survive?

So, in a chaotic home, the child can fluctuate from all of those attachment styles, right? Being victimized, controlling, vacillating, being pleasing, and avoiding because you don't know what's going to work, you just try everything. Now, I do want to point out that if you attach your ring finger, to your thumb, and tap those together, that's the pleaser and the victim, the thing that separates, those two attachment styles is abuse. The victim generally has suffered significant and severe abuse on the high end of the spectrum, right? But the pleaser, they're the exact same except the pleaser will tend to have a boundary and they'll reach a point where they say no more and a victim tames tends to accept and tolerate the unacceptable in the intolerable, so that's the easiest way to describe the attachment.

Now, this is the central nervous system high wiring itself and preparing itself to cope with whatever circumstances they have to deal with. So, memory, experts, tell us that the child begins to develop memory six weeks after conception the last I heard. So what happens is the entire central nervous system of a child in the womb begins to adapt itself for whatever circumstances are going to be born into. I'm told and the research that I came across the last article that I read said that 97, 98, whatever percentage of the DNA is, uncoated DNA, and only what 2 or 3 percentage of the DNA is actually coded, that means that we have so much to leverage, we have so much flexibility; I kind of think about it in the context of an accordion, right?

So although these attachment styles, really begin to shape and form our entire central nervous system, and they have huge implications on our forming and anatomy we're not hostage to those things because our DNA, still has a great capacity to change. Was that too much information?

 Michael: No, I love that. I think that's really beautiful because I think when people can understand the way that they interact with other people and especially, particularly in attachment relationships, it's beneficial. One of the things I'm curious about as we are on this topic, going through this looking at your life where you are now, how does one have and make the assessment of the style of attachment that they have and use that in a way that's beneficial to them? Because things that happens is people will go and oh, I found out, I'm this kind of style and then they're go, I accept this whereas what happened for me, I went, oh, great, I know this now, and I'm going to do something about it. So I'm really curious about your thoughts around that?

Virginia: I have an intake package that I sent to everyone, and there are questions on there. So, when a person comes in to see me, they immediately know, their attachment style, they immediately know the hunger, the drives them, and they're starting to unpack well before they come and sit across from me, the story is that shaped them and that has impacted their lives. So I kind of set the stage and the paperwork that I get out to people, to do really 25% of the work that we're going to be doing in the whole scope of time I work with them, 25% of the information 25% of the work is done, just by that information that they give me. I would also advise your viewers and the listening audience they can go to my website, virginiadixon.com and we have links to a lot of these things and, of course, the podcast, I break down the constitution of these things in greater detail, but I would also advise people to look at the resource section in my website and there's all kinds of resources that they can access to quickly determine their love style, their hunger, and begin to unwrap the implications of these narratives and how they fall into family systems. And there's something along the lines of that and there's a story that is so compelling, Michael that, at some point, if not today that I'd like to I share with you of why understanding the family systems, even if you don't have full memory of them, your body does and there's a lot of energy testing that I do to help people understand what's happening to them. One story that immediately comes to mind beyond the attachment, the attachment is easy and understanding how you love, you can go to relationship 180 also and howwelove.com but if not, you can email us through my website and we'll get information out to you, so you can determine exactly how you love because when you know, how you love, you begin to have the resources to regulate your levels of reactivity, how we love largely explains, how your brain and your body interact and your levels of reactivity. If you're a victim, a controller, and immediately, once you begin to step into an understanding of that, you can begin to regulate. So it's transformational, you don't need years and years and years of therapy, it's a matter of fact, I think you and I are working so hard to make sure that this stuff and this information becomes accessible to everyone and they don't have to pursue therapy for endless years. We need to begin to learn how to heal each other in the context of these conversations.

Michael: Yeah, absolutely. And I think constantly about the idea that, if you can just have a better framework of understanding for who you are, that gives you such a huge advantage becomes ultimately the baseline for what's next when I was in the most dis shoveled chaotic vortex, places of my life, it was always in those times in those moments where I wasn't asking myself the hard questions, but I think that a part of it was, I was so emotionally dissociated, I was so turned off. And I know for sake of time, we got to keep it brief, but can you talk about what it means to embrace the full range of our emotions and our feelings, and how to turn back on after dissociation?

Virginia: Wow, well, would you like me to give you an example to track with it more easily, or would you like me to just explain it? I had this beautiful college student, just beautiful person inside and out total high achiever, her brother passed away from recreational drug use and was instantly killed and actually burned to death and she hit the skids, she was a high achiever, very well-to-do family, wonderful family I might add and the first time I encounter heard was through zoom and I could tell there was a real disconnect. So I knew there was a trauma that I was dealing with beyond the loss of her brother and sure enough such was the case and she came in to see me and she's been one of the toughest people I've ever, ever worked with, she literally sat across from me and just stared at me, pretty much and she did not have words, she could not find words. So I already know there's trauma, there's dissociation and, as I began to hook her up to some biofeedback technology that I have, I can see that her body is carrying one story and the few things that are coming out of her mouth are completely diametrically opposed. And when I ran protocols on her, I could see that she was in an incredible, incredible, agitated state and sure enough as we began to peel back the layers, come to find out she had been molested at a young age by a cousin, eight years old, she was molested by a 17 or 18 year old boy and that's simple enough to some extent but there was something beyond the reach of resources that I had that were like a wall standing between me and her. And sure enough, we peeled back the layers, I did a brain scan on her, we did Sarah set, which is an acoustic mirroring system, and it's all the brain regulating itself and bringing itself into a state of balance, harmony, and coherence. So, we did everything you can possibly imagine, and we broke down some barriers but I could tell that here's the body, here's her soul, and here's her spirit somewhere, and everything I did was bringing things closer, but something was just not right. And one day, I'll never forget her leaving my office and saying, I'm living my best life. And this is such an incredible, incredible feat that we'd accomplished and just a very short period of time. What I will tell you is while she was in college and she was living la vida loca, she was crazy, right beauty, she's beautiful, she's bright, she's intelligent stays up all night, they party like rock stars, and they're doing crazy things and I won't get into the specifics of that. When her podcast comes out Michael, I'll make sure you get a copy of it, but I don't think it's unlike many things you delved into as well, okay, let's just say that but one day she came into my office, nine months into treatment, it not treatment, but into our work together, right into coaching and something was just very wrong and I can tell this girl is sleeping and she's not resting, which made no sense because we had read that had her brain came into balance and it was regulated after several sessions of Sarah set. So there was something that just was not right, and doesn't ask me why but I just asked her; she said something's happening in the middle of the night and I can't put my finger on it but something is very wrong with what I'm experiencing.

And for some reason I asked her to describe exactly what she observed happening in the middle of the night and basically they had to do with her dog growling and bizarre sounds and just as bizarre stuff was happening in the middle of the night and I'm thinking, Okay, this may be the wall I'm running into. So I asked her to stand up and this is what I wanted to say, don't ask me why but I asked her if she could, please turn around and if I could lift her shirt, and I did and she had like a claw mark like a human claw mark going through the back of her shirt and of course, she's trembling and shaking and I asked her if she felt like something was suppressing her to the bed. If she felt like she couldn't breathe and I went on to ask all these other things and she starts kind of shaking and saying I'm terrified to basically step into my home, something's wrong. And this is not a part of my work or a part of our work that people often want to speak about but in fact, when you talk about dissociation, of course it dissociation happened, very, very young and throughout other things and activities is she endeavored to engage in, right? She chose to engage in up until the age of 21-22 years old, where she's seeing me nevertheless, I could see that she'd slip into these dissociative states, but we were dealing with a lot of that, but I knew that something bizarre was starting to happen beyond anything I'd ever seen.

So, I invited her, that night she couldn't go home and we have a retreat center where I do independent work with Executives and with certain people, and that night sure enough in the middle of the night, we began to experience bizarre things and I began to observe her while she slept and it was horrific and just suffice it to say that I have 15 names of things that I never wanted to be familiar with, or associate with, in any way and I didn't know what those things were but these she began to speak in other voices and other things, and sure enough here's the part of mental health, it isn't very popular and we don't want to talk about but when we expose ourselves, to certain things by virtue of sins of omission or commission, whatever you want to call it, right? The spiritual realm is a very real part of these dissociative states not always and that's not where I start but it's certainly where some of these situations take me.

And so with her, that's the most severe case I've had of people that really hit open themselves up to dark things in the spiritual realm and we had to negotiate them and deal with them. And now she's great and incredible and she works with me because she's uniquely qualified to address issues of the spirit, the soul, the body and now she's one of our technicians here, but those are parts of dissociative states that aren't very often spoken of, because you have to delve into things that people don't want to talk about.

But I can tell you is those names led me to 15 different kinds of demonic entities that drug use and crazy living and raves and things like that had she'd opened herself up to and so I've had to delve into that beyond I think what I ever wanted to know or understand or address but it's real.

Michael: Yeah. It's absolutely fascinating to me, what happens when our subconscious takes over, so fascinating to me, I wish we had more time. It's fascinating to me because what I always think about is, we understand that 95% of the subconscious and so, what's really happens when you go to sleep. I want to go into this more with you, I cannot wait to have you back on, but for the sake of time, my friend, I'd like to ask you my last question and that question is, what does it mean to you to be unbroken?

Virginia: To step into freedom and wholeness to understand the function of Liberty, and negotiate issues of the soul, the mind, the heart, the will, the conscience in order to live free. A broken heart and a shattered, soul to some extent is part of the human condition at one time or another, in our lives we experience those things, but I think what it means to be unbroken know that your spirit, your soul in your body are three beautiful resources that you have there. The three most important constituents that you will ever govern, and you must understand them, you must understand the power and the authority that you have, and the dominion that you have over yourself and your circumstances and the incredible value of you is, what is sacred in the conversation between that spirit, that's soul and the body and it is not as difficult and it's not as abstract as it sounds, it's very tangible and accessible and I hope that we have an opportunity, Michael is the first time we've spoken, but I hope we have other opportunities to delve deeper into what those things, those constituents are and how they work together.

Michael: Yeah, and I believe we will and thank you so much for being here.

I greatly appreciate, this has been an amazing conversation.

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