E210: Going to the Next Level with Kevin Palmieri | CPTSD and Trauma Healing Coach

Michael: Hey! What's up, Unbroken Nation! Hope that you're doing well, wherever you are in the world today. Super excited for today's episode with my guest Kevin Palmieri. Kevin is the co-founder of Next Level University a podcast host and a change maker in the world. Kevin my man, what is going on? How are you today?

Kevin: Michael, I'll tell you the same thing, I told you behind the scenes I am living the dream and I'm grateful for another opportunity to add value contribute and just be a good good human being. That's the goal.

Michael: I got a lot of respect for that. You know, I come from chaos, and I remember this moment of looking at my life one day and going, you know what, maybe if I'm just a good person, good things will happen to me, not knowing that the measurement for good or bad, was anything other than self-prescribed. I'm curious, what does living the dream mean? Because people here that in passing and I go, what the fuck are you talking about?

Kevin: So, back in the day like you mentioned, I'm the co-founder of Next Level University, so we just crossed 725 episodes. When I was seven episodes in and I was doing this by myself. One of the episodes I did was called, chase your effing dreams and it was about me at the time, being miserable at this job, I didn't like traveling all over the place, just trading in my time, energy and sanity, in some cases for a paycheck. In that episode I talked about how my dream life would be to wake up when I want go to the gym when I want, record amazing podcast episodes with amazing people, spend time with my friends, spend time with my family, and my significant others, and to be my own boss. And here we are seven hundred in eighteen episodes later and now, this is my full-time job where I get to coach people and I get to speak and I get to podcast. So, for me, living the dream means living a life by design, living a life on purpose, living a life based on growth in contribution and fulfillment and based on the freedom of getting to do what I want when I want and also just being able to change the world in a unique way that if you told me, I'd be doing this six, seven years ago I would have called you crazy, so it I genuinely some days, I have to pinch myself to say, like – I can't believe I get to do what I get to do but I have a kind of a saying to myself of don't forget how bad you want it before you had it. It's really easy to forget what it was like being broke and doing all those things, so you can't forget how bad you wanted it, you can't lose that hunger and you have to keep building that humility.

Michael: Yeah, I love that and congratulations. You know, I say often I only do what I want to do and I don't do what I don't want to do. And people don't understand that until they're able to do that for themselves. You know, at 20 years old, I landed a job with a Fortune 10 company, no high school diploma, no college education and I made six figures, I was miserable every single day. And so far in my life when I look at the times in which I was most miserable it was always when I was doing things that I didn't want to do. When you think about that moment of having that podcast of being like, I'm want to build and create this dream life there's a certain level of and maybe this is just me, but I'm curious of your thoughts, I think there's a certain level in which you have to; I don't want to say like, I but you have to convince yourself that you're capable of doing that. What was it like for you to in the beginning of this idea like at the Crux of the idea when you're like –you know what, I think I can do that. What was that experience like for you?

Kevin: It's interesting because I don't know that I ever did think I could do it in this weird way, I was listening to one of your other episodes and you were talking about the importance of mentorship and you interview, the co-founder and the co-host of our show, Allen. Allen has been with me since episode number 20 and Allen has instilled a level of belief in me that I didn't really have. So, I think it's about surrounding yourself with people who believe in themselves enough to help you believe in yourself, and I just remember, early on thinking that, if I could get to this point, if I could become my own boss, if I could make money with podcasting, that life would be amazing and like – all of my life, not just Friday, not just Saturday, not just Sunday I would really feel like I was doing what I was meant to do, and just for some context, Michael. I was a six-figure earner when I was 26 as well I know you were younger than I, but I was very, very unhappy and I was depressed, I was anxious, I was super self-conscious, my girlfriend ended up leaving me because I was so needy that I didn't want her to go chase your dreams I want to her stay with me. So she left me and I had the craziest work year of my life I was traveling up and down the east coast of the U.S. we worked on state and government buildings, making them, more energy efficient. So we get to the end of that year and I had been on the road for 10 out of the 12 months and we're not staying in nice hotels like, this is cockroach, blood on the wall type hotels, not fancy, but I got to the end of the year and I opened my final pay stub in my goal when I was in the pain, in the loneliness of my girlfriend leaving me was I want to make six figures with no college degree as a kid who just statistically shouldn't be making that kind of money. And I did, I made six figures and I remember sitting at my table like – I'm sitting today and nothing changed. I open that pay stub and I was still that insecure, scared, self-conscious boy, really and that's when like really figured out like, okay, this isn't the way, like the way isn't chasing money, that's when I originally started the podcast.

So it took a certain level of pain for me, where I was already in the mud when I started this show and it became my passion project, like it does for many people if you're watching and you're a podcaster. And the job that brought me so much money and so much significance because I could buy nice things started taking away from the podcast, right? I had to be in New Jersey and I lived in Massachusetts, I would sleep in my bed from 10:00 p.m. ‘till 2 a.m. or 1 a.m. and I would wake up and drive straight to New Jersey to the job site like I just wanted to be home, I just wanted to have a quote-unquote normal life and I was calling out I was leaving the job site early, the people that were working with me were pissed because we were leaving hundreds of dollars on the on the table every day and it got so bad Michael, I'm sitting at the end of a hotel bed in across the room in New Jersey, and I'm lacing up my work boots and I've done this hundreds of times, cold morning dark just heavy I don't want to do this. And the best way to explain it's like there's 10 televisions on in my head at the same time and they're all on different channels. And one is saying, do you really think you can leave this job and find another one? Like what will your parents think? What will your friends think? The biggest one for me and this speaks to your point, do you really think you can have a successful podcast? And in that moment, Michael, I genuinely thought the best thing for me to end my problems was to end my life and I was just rock bottom, trapped, stuck and I texted Alan and said, hey man, I'm going through it right now like I'm really going through it and he said, Kev, you've changed so much over the last couple of years, but your circumstances, your surroundings or environment, hasn't. He talked me through it and then I left that job, three months later. So evolved for me in a way of like we call it the pain pleasure pendulum.

The people who go all the way to hell no are usually way more likely to get all the way to hell yes, but it's that middle ground of it's bad, but not bad enough to make a change where I think a lot of people get stuck and I had seen rock bottom, I had seen the rock bottom basement. So when I saw that, I think that locked in belief of; even if I don't make it to the level, I want it can't be as bad as this is.

Michael: Yeah. And that's not hard conversation to have with yourself because a lot of those nights are restless nights, head on the pillow, thinking about what could be, won't look at yourself in the mirror, stuck in this narrative that this is as good as life gets and then you learn something really interesting about life and that is that life is actually based on the choices that you make that all start with the way that you think. And I'm glad you have that moment with Alan to help guide you through that because I say all the time man, like there are billion people on planet Earth and not a single one of them did anything great alone. And so as you had end of that and you have that really, what is such an amazing experience like I think about this sometimes and it perhaps might be a little off-putting in, that's fine, I think that rock bottom sometimes a good thing, right? Because I go and I look at my life at rock bottom – 350 pounds, smoking two packs of cigarettes a day, drinking myself to sleep and I put a gun in my mouth and I was like, okay, cool, so, what's next? Well, 11 years later, I'm changing the world, I'm impacting lives, I'm doing the thing that I'm supposed to do. And so what I'm always thinking about is like, can you mitigate risk, can you mitigate this idea that rock-bottom ultimately becomes the Catalyst for massive change in the world? Unfortunately, I think all signs point to no, but what I'm curious about is, do you think that there any way is that we can mitigate rock bottom to create massive change before that pendulum has this way?

Kevin: Yeah, I mean, it's a great point. I think you can find necessity through other people's rock bottom's, but I don't know that for most people and Evan Carmichael has said this, he's been on our show a few times, your pain is your purpose, like your purpose comes from your deepest pain. And for me, I believe if I had a level of self improvement, self-development I never would have got to the place that I got to. So, I think you need some form of necessity, maybe it doesn't have to be rock bottom, but there has to be something that is forcing necessity that you didn't have yesterday, maybe it's not your own rock bottom, maybe you see something that just inspires you more than you've ever been inspired before or maybe something happens in your family where it's not a rock-bottom to you. I think there has to be a new input to create a new internal environment to create a new output. I wish it didn't have to be that way but you've interviewed so many people, you know how it's just like those people – the people who make it to the top of the top have usually been to the bottom of the bottom.

Michael: Yeah. You know, and that's what's so funny as because I think what happens is and I don't know if this was your experience or not. I just stop fucking negotiating with myself, I just looked at my life one day as like you are done, you are going to go and get help, you're going to go and be of service, you're going to go and do all these things that's led me down this incredible path that I'm actually nowhere near close to the goals that I want to accomplish in my life but I just stopped making excuses. Talk to me because what I'm always fascinated I asked a lot of people this question, how are you speaking to yourself? What was your internal dialogue like before and after that moment?

Kevin: Before it was victim, like not enough, not good enough, scarcity, no hope for a brighter future, it just a lot of negative self-talk, a lot of limiting beliefs and I still have my limiting beliefs and I always admit that I think it's important to be honest about that, not a bright future, very little hope. Now it's interesting Michael because it's like in a weird way, I know that I'll be as successful as I want eventually and that's just a strange existence for me it feels like I'm breathing thin air more often than not but now myself talk I guess the best way to put it before I had a very very fixed mindset and now my growth mindset is the thing that I lean on more often than not.

I was on a call yesterday with a potential client, you know, we're talking 20, 30, 40 thousand dollars a year and it didn't go the way I wanted it to. I got off the call and reflected and talk to Alan and I talked to my girlfriend and it was with the growth mindset of what can I learn from this? What is the lesson here? How can I take this into the future with me? Back in the day, if something goes wrong today, life is terrible and I have no way of recovering from that. So, I think it's just give me this, it's level of certainty that it might not seem like it might everything's crashing but you have the ability to change the future, to change your own future, to change your trajectory because you work so hard on yourself. Back then I had never read a book other than in school but you know, I only read what they force me to, I didn't know anything about self-improvement, I didn't know we were malleable as human beings and we could change our thoughts, I didn't understand the power of learning. So I don't think I had enough life experience to shift my thinking and then, like – after a rock bottom moment it's almost like in a weird way this stuff that you go through, on the way down to rock bottom is the same stuff that allows you to climb up from it. Now, if I took my life, obviously that wouldn't be the case and I'm gratefully here, but I think the stuff I felt on the way down is the same stuff I was capable using to crawl out of that. I think that's why rock bottom can really, multiply your journey, rock-bottom can keep the gasoline in your tank that you might not have others, it's an interesting place to order.

Michael: Yeah, and I love that you said that and you brought up this idea about turning the education. You know, recently I had John Lee Dumas on the show and he was talking about the idea that when he was at his rock bottom, a guy who's built multi Million Dollar business, who has probably arguably the number one business podcast on planet Earth, who all of these things he has in common with the same thing as people have brought on the show like Jordan Harbinger, people I brought the show like you or Alan or name anyone who's been on here where we have all turned to education as this source, as this flame for creating the massive change for what's next in our life. And for me, it was when I looked and I turned towards his personal development, here's what's really funny, man, I used to make fun of personal development. Who the fuck does those guys think jumping up and down, are you out of your mind? Now, I will say this, you see me out of conference, I'm going to tell you right now Kevin, I'm not jumping up and down, not my vibe, but I will be there with a notebook. Why did that shift for you? Like was it for me, it felt like fucking desperation, I was like, I don't know what else to do, right? What was it that shift? Because I know someone listening right now is in this position where they have ordered the book or they've never listen to the podcast and they just cannot quite wrap their head around, why personal development is actually so important?

Kevin: Yeah, it’s a great point. My favorite quote, the biggest difference between the person you are and the person you want to be is your habits. The reason you have the results in your life is because you either don't know enough to do something different or you're not doing what, you know, you should be. And for me, Michael, it was simple, I remember this is very, very, you know, singed in my mind. I would see somebody drive by me in a Corvette, or a Mercedes or a really nice truck and my natural reaction was always to say, it must be nice, it must be nice, it must be nice. And I think I realized very quickly that like, they are just doing something different than I am, they're just running a different algorithm, they're just playing a different game, maybe they did get lucky but they're doing something.

So it's easy to say it must be nice but what if I get curious about how they got it? That for me was a very empowering thing of I never felt like I knew enough in any regard like that's my kryptonite is lack of enoughness always and it still is. We're interviewing amazing people like you and it's like am I good enough to be in this room, that's something I still struggle with. Seven hundred episodes, you know a multi six-figure business from our Podcast, I still struggle with that, but I had to get curious about what are people actually doing to get the results? Because what I thought was going to work for me didn't. So I either do what I just did and expect a different result or I go get some more information and I'm the same as you. I remember thinking, Tony Robbins was a cult leader, I said, that's Alan I was like, I'm not going to read this book like I just have to feel good and things will happen because that was the story I was telling myself, like – self-improvement? What do you mean? Like, how is that going to make me more money? Then when I started listening, I started to hear these commonalities and it was like, interesting. So that's what these people did? Okay, and then I started to see more patterns. And for me it was going from the victim of it must be nice, the scarcity of it must be nice, to the abundance of like will let me ask this person, how they actually did it and then take those lessons. Books are like the wildest thing in the world, you know, it could be somebody's year, it could be somebody's life and it's a three to six hour read, and you can take somebody's entire existence, all of their lessons, all of their experiences into yourself figure out what works for you and then kick the rest. But like it's such an interesting thing, it's such an interesting opportunity that you can read a book and encapsulate, somebody's entire life and then use that for your own good. You know, I didn't go to college, so learning wasn't valuable to me, I think that's the thing at the end of the day Michael, I didn't value intelligence, I didn't value knowledge, I didn't value education when I realized that what I was doing wasn't working and I wasn't getting what I valued, I realized it was probably time to look elsewhere and that's what I did.

Michael: Yeah, that's so interesting because I did value education, but I valued it for being right and that's dangerous, right? And so here's what's really interesting, as a child, I spent and I say this jokingly, but I spent the majority of my childhood in the library because they had air conditioning and we were in poverty, we didn't have air conditioning like we're fucking dirt poor. And so I would be in the library reading all these books, mainly nonfiction may be mainly biographical Sports books, right? Mean I've read about Jeff Gordon and Reggie Miller and Troy Aikman and I would be like –okay, this is really interesting like these guys have done this but then it would always be followed up by like, that'll never be me, right? Now, a lot of that comes from our parents that's, a measurement that's, grooming that's, trauma that's, abuse, I mean, a teacher, can say something you in third grade that ruined your fucking life like let's keep it real because we're in our developmental years. And then I started thinking about education like this, I didn't graduate high school on time, they literally just handed me the diploma, I never went to college, but what skills can I learn? What skills can I learn that I'm interested in learning? If you were like, hey, man, I want you to take this course, unlike Advanced Algebra, I be like, nah, I'm good, I'll put zero effort into it. But then when you start moving towards the things that you're curious about, it's incredible how deep you will go and trying to understand them. What do you think in your journey has been the most surprising thing that you've been able to prove yourself, right on?

Kevin: Oh, my goodness, I would say, my ability to build a business. You're a podcaster, you know, it's like the cheat, the odds of making money as a podcaster are very small like, we're talking minuscule percentages, and we've built a multi six-figure business and it's like, it blows my mind because I never thought that was possible that and I would say speaking. It's interesting because I didn't have the self-belief to start speaking but when I did it, I just never stopped. So in a weird way, I just have way more reps than other people, you know, between being on other shows in our show and speeches like I have 1000 reps of speaking, that's the only reason I'm even remotely decent at it. So, in a weird way, I didn't even believe I could do what I'm doing today, but for me, I force myself to learn what's necessary for the result. And I think that level of self-awareness is important, like I don't know a lot about cars, I don't know a lot about cooking, I don't know a lot about design, I know very little about things outside of my genius own.

I learned what I thought would get me the results that I wanted and when I didn't get the result I wanted, I went back and said, okay, why didn't I, how do I learn that? I learned sales because I was broke; like, couldn't afford Christmas presents for my girlfriend broke. So if I didn't learn sales, I was going to feel like I was letting her down, I learned leadership because we had a team. So a lot of my learning has been show up, take messy action, get sometimes a messy result, go learn, cleanup, go learn what you need to know, go learn what would have helped you avoid this problem in the first place, but I also think it comes back to you like, what result do you actually want? For me, it's just podcasting, speaking, coaching, consulting and then having an amazing relationship and family. So I do believe, that's one of the things Michael is like the level of clarity you have for what you want your future is going to determine the level of work ethic, the level of specificity, all of that the level of humility, that's another thing I'll say and you've said this a couple times throughout this when you're talking about mentorship and being willing to ask. One of the things that I really try to practice is radical, radical, radical, humility of like, I am blessed to have amazing mentors, I'm blessed to have a great business partner, I'm blessed to have an amazing partner in my life, I'm blessed to have an amazing community and a team and friends. And I think that I don't ever want to let myself forget that, because I believe the level of self-awareness that I have associated with the level of current, and future, success is important so I don't forget what it was like to not have it. And I just think that's being real with myself of look, I am blessed to be where I am and I owe a lot to a lot of people, I that helps me with that level of. I have to keep learning like that's what I did to get here, I wouldn't be able to stay at this level if I didn't know what, I know, I'm definitely not going to get to the next level if I don't learn what it takes to get me there.

Michael: Yeah. And I think humility plays a really important role in our journey. When I think about my own journey, with the people I'm associated, with the people in my circle, my own mentors, I have mentors, or people go how are you in connection with that guy? I'm like, well, I had to do all these other things for the last 11 years to lead to this moment and I think people get lost on that, where the fact that this is like, I love that there's a sign behind you that says that this is a grind, like it really truly is. Now, hustle or execution, I know for folks listening can't see the signs behind cabin, but you know, life is a grind, life is very much about tedium, you do have to do the same things repetitively, you have to build Mastery, become a high performer, show up, go to the course when you don't want to, read the book when you don't want to, execute when you don't want to, write because like dude, to be honest with you I'd rather be smoking a joint and eating gummy bears right now, like for real, but how does that align with my goals? How does that help me change the world? And you mentioned clarity; and clarity is one of my favorite word's because with clarity, we put our intentions and our attention and with clarity, like – it's incredible what you can create. I think we'll get lost and clarity though because they hear it so often they're like, yeah, sure, get clear about my goals, I want to make a million dollars a year, well, are you really being clear about that because where's the rest of the roadmap. Talk to me about Clarity and in-depth the role that's played in your life?

Kevin: Yeah, it's interesting. I think human beings set goals in one of two ways, they set goals based on what they think they can get, or they base goals set on what they actually want. And when you set goals, based on what you actually want, I think it's important to have that level of super, super specificity sitting down and saying, like, okay, that's the result you want, that's the goal you want but what is the experience of the goal? Like when are you waking up? Where are you waking up? Who are you waking up next to? Making a million dollars is great but that's only one, I mean, I don't even know what percentage it is. We break things into health, wealth and love so that's wealth but doesn't help you with health, and that definitely doesn't help you with love especially if you don't learn what it takes to get there. So, it's interesting because I think I got some what I want to say lucky, but I'm blessed that I found podcasting as soon as I did and went all in on it because my level and of clarity and my vision for my future, as an exponential level of what I'm doing today, I think, with most people the level of clarity you have is probably directly correlated with the level of belief you have in yourself, because if you don't believe what you want, is not only capable but capable for you then you're not going to take action. As a human being you have to have a couple beliefs, you have to believe it's possible humanly, you have to believe it's possible for you specifically, as a human being and then the third one, you have to believe it'll be worth it.

So if you don't know the deeper depths of like – why do you want a million dollars? Well, because I grew up broke and I didn't have that money, okay, cool, why? Well, because I think it'll buy me nice things. Okay, so maybe you're looking for significance, okay, let's go deeper, why else? Well, I know what it's like not to be able to put food on the table. Okay, so you're looking for certainty, you're looking for safety. Awesome. What do you want to do with your life, though? Like, when you get that million dollars, you're still going to have to do something every day, you're going to want to grow and contribute. So I do believe it's sure the goal set it and you could say, like I want to make a million dollars, that's awesome. But what do you want your human existence to look like? What do you want to do? Who do you want to be? How do you want to show up? I think what people do is they break it into one, it's either health; you know, I want to lose 75 pounds and I would be in the best shape of my life like, that's awesome, cool; they do love, I want to be married with kids and a family and a house and I want a dog and a white picket fence, or they do wealth, I want to have a net worth of 60 million dollars like awesome but you're missing the giant pieces of the pie. Like you only have one pillar and I think that's why so many people get what they want and if that pillar falls over because it's really a tripod, it's health wealth, and love. And love can mean anything spiritual-love, self-love, health can mean mental health, all of that. And then wealth is how you make your money, how you spend your money, where you donate your money? But I just think it's the level of creativity don't admit or don't say you have a goal because you think you have to have that goal decide for yourself like, what do you really, really want your human experience to look like if we were saying, paint me a picture of the future, you'd paint the entire thing, you didn't paint, you paint the entire, you wouldn't just paint one color or one line or the sun like you'd paint the entire thing. I think people just paint one color and they don't think enough about like, what is actually possible for them in the future.

Michael: Yeah. I think you're spot on and I look at that being a direct correlation of parts of my life, especially when I was younger I'd be like, okay, I'm going to focus the zero, focus on this one thing, period and then it would come to fruition and I would feel empty otherwise because I hadn't yet, get started move, effort and energy towards the other things in my life and I look at life as multiple there's multitude of pillars that we can put our energy into and you can shape your life and it's going to take you seven years, twelve years, fifteen years, twenty five years. I love what you said about this idea that you're going to continue to learn so you can go to the next level and I think that's everything in life because when your stagnant, right? This is what people say when they retired they and then, you know, they died shortly after, they're like, I don't have anything else to live towards and I'm like, well what I'm always thinking about is like, how do you create something in your life that is so practical and big and scary or maybe even in practical that you continue to move towards it forever? And someone recently asked me, like – when I was going to retire? I was like, I don't even have that word is not even in my vernacular, because I'm trying to create massive change, I'm trying to create impact in the world and I love what I get to do. And so I think, when you can get really clear about the life that you want to create and you accept the reality, that there is no Disney moment that no one's coming to save you that is going to take you a lot longer than you think, then you can really start to have forward momentum. One of the things I'm curious about as you continue to head into what's next; is what is next level? What is the idea? What is it you're trying to build? What does this look like? What is the future for Kevin?

Kevin: So, next level is just the thought that no matter where you are, there is another place for you to go, that is going to bring you more love, more joy, more fulfillment, more results, more success, more impact, more profitability, more health, like whatever that is for you. We all have the ability to improve as human beings and that's a never never never ending process. So that's my idea of Next Level, what's next, our goal and you spoke to this Michael, it's an audacious goal that we will genuinely never hit because I don't think it's humanly possible. But our goal is to put self improvement in the pocket of every human being on the planet for free seven days a week. So our podcast is always free seven days a week, if you listen You'll have self improvement in your pocket every single day. And then it's also, you know, our goal is to travel the world and speak and bring a level of none ego, but truth and we always say, and somebody gave us this compliment after one of our speeches they said, what I really love about you guys is your heart driven but no BS. I genuinely want what's best for you, if you're watching this, or if you're listening to this I genuinely want what's best for you, is a human being. But I also want what's best for you enough to tell you the truth. And Michael, I love the fact that you don't sugarcoat it, this will take you years, it'll take you a long time, it'll be a miracle, were of your lack in the stuff that you have to learn, it'll also be a mirror of the things that you're really good at. But next level in the future, is the brand that helps people figure out where they are and where they want to go and we guide them there through live events, through coaching, through the podcast, through speaking, through all of that stuff. I think it's time and our listeners are really a good example of this, our listeners are primarily female, and I think one of the reasons is Alan, and I try to live with a high level of humility, but also a high level of honesty. I want to give you the truth of what it takes, I don't want to sell you on something because that's not a good way to live, that's not value. The valuable thing to do is to tell you the truth. So that's what I see for us is the two guys who have the results that people think they want and we tell you how we actually got those results, and then we help you get your own version of those results through communication, through practicality, and through a level of humility, that attracts the right people in and filters the wrong people out.

Michael: Yeah. I have a huge amount of appreciation for that on. I tell people all the time, if you listen to this podcast, you would never have to buy a book, you would never have to buy a course, you'd never have to come coach with you, never have to do anything. Now, of course, I mean there's levels to it, right? But I do I agree with you like I want people to understand something like I'm not an anomaly, I'm not somehow special, I'm sure you would agree, the only thing is like (A) I'm fucking crazy stubborn that helps but (B) I've allotted myself the space in the grace to recognize that this takes time, right? In the same way that I have gone through this tremendous trauma healing journey is taking me time to get to this moment where I could sit down and have a conversation with Kevin and be confident in the man that I am, even though people look at me, they go, well, you're six foot four covered in tattoos, you can take on the world while I go well 10 years ago, that wasn't true, right? And so the thing is, you know, just still a tremendous amount of patience in this journey and the world on a long enough time line can shape and bend and be exactly what you want it to be. Kevin, my friend this is amazing conversation before I ask you my last question, can you tell everybody where they can find you?

Kevin: Sure. So if you like what Michael and I talked about Next Level University, every Podcast platform in 4k every episode on YouTube as well. I am @neverquitkid on Instagram and then nextleveluniverse.com is our website. You can find us over there.

Michael: Amazing. Kevin my friend, my last question for you is, what does it mean to you to be unbroken?

Kevin: Being unbroken to me means having every every single opportunity to quit and stay down but finding a reason greater than yourself, to keep showing up and keep improving as a human being and then passing that on to other human beings and showing them that you remain unbroken so they can do the same.

Michael: It's beautifully said, my friend. Thank you so much! Thank you for being here.

Unbroken Nation, thank you for listening.

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And Until Next Time.

My friends, Be Unbroken.

-I'll see you.