E358: 10-No BS lessons to be the HERO of your life with Lisa Bilyeu | CPTSD and Trauma Healing Coach

Michael: Hey, what's up Unbroken Nation! Hope that you're doing well wherever you are in the world today. I'm very excited to be back with you with another episode with my guest and friend Lisa Bilyeu, the author of Radical Confidence, 10-No BS Lessons on Becoming the Hero of Your Own Life, which is a subtitle that I love as the Unbroken Nation knows, this show has become the hero of your own story. So, another parallel yet we track together my friend. Thank you so much for being here. How are you today?

Lisa: Oh, my God. It's such an honor to be here. Thank you for having me. And I love that, that we already, there's already synergy here, right? We already know.

Michael: Yeah, absolutely. And you know, I think that it would be remiss for me not to ask you a hard question right out the gate. When you started the book, the very first thing, when you get past the copyright and beautiful neon pink letters, it says to anyone brave enough to pick up this book and consider change. And I thought as I picked that up and I held it in my hand, I looked at it for the first time ago, she's fucking brave because we live in a world right now where in 2022 to write a book like this, like cancel cultures, just waiting for you to say the wrong thing. And as I'm going through it, I'm like if I were in a fixed mindset, I'd be really in trouble picking this up and then I read a chapter titled toughen the fuck up buttercup. And so, it's a twofold question, one, why is it important to be brave enough to consider change? And then two, what does tough in the fuck up buttercup actually mean?

Lisa: Cool. All right. So, let's tackle one thing at a time. So, to even consider change for me was very difficult. I was brought up as a Greek Orthodox girl. I was taught that I would be a stay-at-home wife, support my husband, have a bunch of kids. And so, it took me at least 30 years to even challenge that idea and so to think about the idea of where am I now, what am I doing? Does this serve me? Does this make me happy? And do I want to change? Even that thought is petrifying and it could be crippling and it kept me exactly where I was completely unhappy in what I call purgatory the mundane for eight years; eight years, my life was just mundane, laugh enough that I was stuck in purgatory. And so, when I started to think about what was it that caused me to stay there when I knew I wasn't happy when, like, why didn't I ask for more? And it really did dawn on me that just in thinking about changing can be petrifying enough. So, I understand how brave you have to be to even consider it. So that was really why I started it and opened with that and everything that I talk about in the book to your point about council culture and all things like that, the truth is that I just said to myself, I need to be truthful in this book about how I went from being eight years stuck in a life that didn't serve me, that didn't make me happy, where I felt like I was living someone else's life to then today where you know, you see me as co-founder of a billion dollar company co-founder of impact theory, you know, author, host of my own show, all of that was done because I had to put one foot in front of the other. I had to tell myself, Lisa, even though right now, this thing upsets you, maybe you're being too sensitive, maybe your emotions are allowing you to run wild, maybe the way you think, the way you see things really is keeping you stuck. And it wasn't until I had to challenge myself, I had to ask myself, does this actually serve me? Am I doing what I love? And all of that started to open up what I wrote in the book. And so, kind of going back to what you were saying about cancel culture, I just have to be truthful to my story. And so, if someone doesn't like it, then that's on them, like it, I'm not here to say whether you should like my story or not, or whether this should resonate with you or not, all I'm saying is I only can be truthful. And I learned that if I let my emotions take away with me, I wasn't able to what I call emotionally sober up to focus to see something as fact, and then act in accordance.

And so, everything I talk about everything I say, haven't gone from stuck to where you see me now, all of that is written in the book. And so, this is a, hey, look, this book isn't for everybody. You know, if you're just looking to feel good about yourself every single day, this book is gonna be hard to read because for me, I had to face the truth that I wasn't good enough yet, I had to face the truth that I didn't know everything yet, I had to face the fact that I was inadequate at a lot of things. And until I was able to actually assess that and see those facts, I wasn't able to take a hard look at myself and say, Lisa, what do you have to do to get better? How do you have to show up tomorrow, even better than you did today? And that was how I went from being stuck for eight years to now being the hero of my own life.

And so, I just put it all on paper and I was like, I really hope the truth is what actually resonates with people, because that was what I needed to hear. I needed to just admit the truth of how I was feeling, I wanted to feel like I was badass and I could accomplish anything but the truth was, I wasn't confident at all, I felt shitty about myself half the time I was completely in adequate. And so, I had to figure it out the way, which meant I had to admit Lisa, you're not good enough yet, so, you're better toughen the fuck up and get back up every time you fall. And so that was really where it came to being brave saying the hard truth. And then just saying, Lisa, you have to toughen up, like if you really want to show up every day and be badass, you cannot allow yourself to be too sensitive too much.

Michael: You have no idea how much I resonate with that because you know, I look at my life 25 years old, total disaster chasing the wrong things morbidly obese, smoking, drinking the whole nine. And there's a truth in what you just said, it's not for everybody. And I do think that there's this beautiful space for grace, compassion, empathy, self-care, and love. But I think often people conflate this idea of self-care and taking care of yourself versus taking it easy on yourself. And I realized in that window, like I was taking it easy on myself and created this massive change, which leads me to today, blah, blah, blah. One of the things I'm curious about when I think about you, I was pondering this the other day. I was like, when I think about Lisa like, I think about this word transformation and that word feels so incredibly true about who you are, it fills it in your presence when I've had dinner with you or been around you, it's been like, oh, that's who this person is. But Lisa, so many of us fight this. And so many of us are like, oh, I read the next self-help book or I listen to the next podcast, I did the next thing. And like, I'm transforming, but I'm like, but you're not doing anything. How do you kind of reconcile who you used to be? And those ideals of like, okay, this is who I am, but that's who I want to be that's where I want to go and take action. Is there a process in that? Like how do you execute against becoming the hero of your own life?

Lisa: Well, I love this question. So, I'm so goal oriented. So, you have to know what' your goal is like, what is anything look like, because people keep asking me, Lisa, I want confidence like yours. And honestly, I'm like, who the hell are they talking about? Because if you heard how negative the voice in my head was how mean this, the bitch in my head, I call her how mean she is to me on a daily basis, you wouldn't think that it was confidence. So, what is it that people are seeing? They see that I take action, they see that I just move forward and so, what I wanna say to people it's so important to know what you're moving towards, because so much of the time I get up and I don't feel great about myself, I don't feel confident, I don't know what I'm doing, I am stumbling in the dark sometimes, and yet I still keep moving forward. So, you have to know what you're moving towards, that's number one. So, know what your goal is.

Then what I would say is lay out a path in order to get to that goal, make it binary because as you know, we can all convince ourselves to your point, right? We can convince ourselves that we're moving towards our goal, but actually we are just standing still, what did you just say, you weren't taking care of yourself, you were taking it easy. You can convince yourself that you're taking care of yourself. Right? But unless you write out a list of what does that actually mean? And then make it binary, then you're able to say, did I do this? Yes, or no? So, for instance, did I allow myself eight hours sleep? Yes or no, that's binary, there's no negotiating that. And so, now to your point of take taking care of yourself, you can say to yourself, okay, did I actually give myself the eight hours? Yes, or no? That now makes it binary. You know, you said, I want to take care of myself, taking care of myself means that I take get eight hours sleep. So, now your goal needs an actionable list that is binary so that you can't emotionally convince yourself, no, no, I felt like I did it. Did you actually do it? Yes, or no?

And then the last part now you've got your list of all the things you have to do in order to get your goal. Now, you just have to ask yourself, is that a life that is going to lift you up? Because people say they wanna reach their goals, but sometimes the day to day doesn't actually align with what they want in life. And so, now I think that's where the friction comes. So, for instance, the best example I could say is like, you wanna learn an instrument, you wanna be the best pianist in the world. And now every day, do you get up and play the piano? Yes, or no? How many hours do you put in? And then you can say, hang on a minute, this isn't a life, I don't wanna play the piano 18 hours a day. Lisa, I just don't enjoy it that much, I wanna be the best pianist for 18 hours, come on. Okay. Amazing. Now you've just looked at it with no like blinders on and you said for me to be the best, I need to practice 18 hours, I don't enjoy practicing 18 hours. So, I'm only gonna practice 10 and now, you know, what's gonna happen, I'm okay with not being the best. So, that's what writing out your goal, writing out the steps to get to your goal and I call it in the book. No bullshit what would it take? So that's kind of the last thing that you need to do, is that you need to then look and just say no bullshit. What would it take for me to get there? And now does that actually light me up? And the reason why you do this is then you can step back and say, oh, actually what I thought I wanted in life, doesn't actually align with my day to day. And now what do I do differently? Because I don't know about you, but for me, if I didn't reach my goal in one year, two years, three years, I'd start to beat myself up emotionally, I'd be like, see Lisa, you're a loser, you said you wanted to be the best pianist, but you're not even close, you can't even read cheat music. Right? And now what am I doing is I'm just beating myself up over the fact that I didn't get to my goal instead of saying, I actually don't wanna practice that much. So, instead of setting gold to be the best pianist in the world, what if I just say, I want to teach, second grade kids, how to play the piano? And now that only requires me to do eight hours of practice a day, and that's a life that I actually enjoy.

Michael: Yeah. And I think that a big aspect of that is being honest with yourself. And we live in an interesting time right now where, and I don't know how you feel about this I'm curious, but I always hear fake it until you make it. And I've always thought to myself that doesn't make a lot of sense because then you're reinforcing of falsity, right? As opposed to make it until you make it. And I'm wondering in the journey, so, you're going through this process, you're creating change. Let's say you map this out. You're like, I want to go and be this pianist, but in the middle of it, maybe you realize actually I don't and people get stuck and they're like, well, but I gotta keep going and I can't change my mind or I can't do something else and then they're like, well, I'll just keep faking it, I'll pretend this thing, I'll show up as this and hope that it will turn out to be what I want it to be. And that made me think about this concept that you came up with, which is like stunningly uncomfortable if people are paying attention, the purgatory of the mundane. I would love for you to go into that, dive into that and explain what that means, because I think for some people listening, which happened to me, it's kind of like a baseball bat to the face.

Lisa: Yeah. Thank you. So, to touch on your first bit, which was, sorry, I'll go into Purgatory to on the mundane, but you just said something, can you repeat that first part of your question? 

Michael: Yeah. I was just talking about this idea that people don't allow themselves the space for change, they just say, you know, I want to be the greatest pianist and then they don't make the change or they don't do what they need to do and they're faking it until they make it as opposed to making it until they make it.

Lisa: Okay. That was the fake it to you make it part. So that's one thing I wanna address, here's the truth about. I really don't care what the fuck you call it and I'm sorry to swear, but I did that deliberately like we so focus on, well, should we fake it? Should we not fake it? Is this an imposter? My imposter syndrome, is this not imposter syndrome? It's just like, what's gonna get you started. Right? So, for me, it was like if I wanted to walk into a room and I felt really uncomfortable, because I was very insecure, let's say a business room, and there's, let's say 20 entrepreneurs. If all I can do is fake it to just walk into the room, freaking fake it and walk into the room, like get in that room, that's my goal. So, I'm just like, what is the goal? How do I do it? And what tools do I use to get there? And so, if you are so petrified to walk in a room and all you have to do is fake it in order to get in there fake it. I don't care because my goal is to get started because once you walk into the room, then you can learn, then it becomes a different mindset than how on earth you show up and how you ask questions and feel comfortable about asking questions, all of that is doable, but first you just have to freaking walk into the room.

Michael: Can I push back on you please? I have to ask this question, please. Is it actually faking it if you walk into the room though?

Lisa: But it depends on what you mean by fake. And that's what I mean, it's like, if you have to say to yourself, let's say I'm petrified, in fact, this actually happened. I walked my husband and his business partners had like 10 years business experience over me before we started quest nutrition. So, here they are in a room, talking business and I got no idea what they're doing or what they're talking about. I've just been a housewife for eight years. So, I kept saying to myself, Lisa, you don't deserve to be at this table like you literally, it's a room full of entrepreneurs, it's a room full of successful people. And here you are, Lisa, acting like, you know what you're doing? I don't freaking know what I'm doing but if I don't pretend that if I don't pretend that I know what I'm doing, I'm not gonna be able to sit at the table cause I'm gonna be too scared. So, just freaking pretend, you know what you're doing, all right, great, what does that mean? Just sit your ass on the chair. Fine. I'm gonna sit my ass on the chair, right, then after that, how on earth do I not let being in that room feel detrimental to my self-esteem, right? So, now it becomes a stepping stone of how do I walk in the room? I don't care. If you have to literally tell yourself you are the most amazing entrepreneur on the planet and you've never done business, but that's where you need to, to yourself to fricking walk in the room, why the hell do other people care? Like that's my point is we put so much stigma wrapped around the idea or a notion and really, I'm just like, I really don't care if your idea is to get to walk in the room and sit at that desk, then what on earth do you have to do to your mindset to sit there? If you have to tell yourself you're the best entrepreneur, do it. If you have to tell yourself that you know, better than everyone, but really you don't then do it. I don't care. So, I'm so goal oriented; the goal is to sit at the table.

So, now that you've sat at the table, what are the things you're going to say in order to be able to listen to what is being said, because sometimes feeling like an imposter, like now you start to like, shut down, you start to like close your ears to what is being said, because you don't wanna be like called on there's a lot of emotion that gets wrapped up into sitting at the table. So, then what I do is I tell myself is Lisa, you are the learner, and that means that any situation you go into, you don't have to know everything, you don't even have to know anything because you're just gonna go in there and learn. And that becomes the other pivotal piece of my mindset that once I've sat down or wherever I am now, I just go where you are the learner. Now telling myself the learner means I'm very comfortable asking questions, and that means that if someone knows something more than I do knows something better than I do, having the identity of the learner just allows me to keep asking questions. So, those are two tips. I just need to walk into the room. What do I have to tell myself to walk into the room? I really don't care. You gotta tell yourself your imposter or whatever that you are faking it, just do it, then pivot and be the learner that allows you to ask questions and what ends up happening over time is as you ask questions, you get to be more comfortable as you get to be more comfortable you get to learn more. As you get to learn more, you get to practice. As you get to practice, you get to act. As you get to act, you become more competent and as you become more competent, you become more confident. So, everything freaking leads in from one thing to the next to the next. And so, anyone that's listing that may get caught up in the word fake it, that's why I wanted to knock it down from the start, because it's like that, isn't what we should be focusing on, it really needs to be that end goal of did I do it? Yes, or no? Did I show up? Yes, or no? Did I get better today than I was yesterday? Yes, or no?

Michael: 100%. And especially in that journey is like, you've gotta be willing to jump off the bridge like if I'm coaching my client so we're gonna go into something really, really scary emotionally. I say, look, if you don't dive off the fucking diving board, you're never gonna find out if you can swim or not and you're gonna sit there all day long, all week, year lifelong, wondering what if, and to me that's fucking terrifying. And so, that actually is a perfect segue, I wanna go back rewind just briefly to the purgatory of the mundane because when I think about that space, that chasm between here I am, and here I want to go and you have to cross that gap, it's like that gap is that purgatory, right? And so, that's where you were for eight years, what was happening? Cause I think people are gonna hear you and be, wow, this person sounds confident, they figured some shit out and I'm like, yeah, and there was a process.

Lisa: That's literally why I wrote this book because people think about who you are today, right? Who you are? Who I am? And that they think that defines who we've always been. And so, one of the most impactful quotes I ever heard was from Lisa Nichols and she said, don't make me extraordinary to let yourself off the hook. And so, thank you for saying that, it's very important for me to keep expressing where I started from, because it would be a disservice to anyone listening if they thought I was born with confidence because I wasn't, I was the complete opposite. I was the person that got teased and bullied and picked on for my big nose, for having a head brace, for having a uni brow, for having a really, really long Greek name like I was very insecure. And so, it is imperative to go back and see where I started, because I want anyone listening to know that they can do it too, I wasn't born extraordinary, I wasn't born with any magic spark, I was not born confident, I was the opposite, I was absolutely insecure. And so, how do I go from being that person to where I am today? It is everything we're talking about. It is with the tiny little decisions that we make in our life to go down one path and then to keep going. So going back to your question about Purgatory the mundane, I didn't feel great about myself growing up. I fall in love with this man who I love more than life itself. And we had made the decision that I was gonna support him for a year at home and that was gonna be in service of a bigger dream and goal for us, both, which was to make movies together. So, he was gonna go on this entrepreneurial journey, I was gonna stay at home and support him, we just read this Steve jobs interview where he'd said that he basically doesn't make any decisions out, like what he's gonna wear and what he's going to eat because in life we only have a certain amount of very concrete decisions we can make in a day, lot of clarity.

And so, Steve jobs was like, well, I'm not gonna decide what to wear, which is why you always see him wear black shirts and jeans. So, he just wore the same thing every day. So, me and my husband, our goal was our idea was, well, hang on a minute, babe, if I just decide everything else outside of business, you go in, you make enough money, you focus on making money, you know, being an entrepreneur, I'll take care of everything else. We'll do it for about a year and we'll make enough money and now we'll go make movies. Right? And the reason why I wanted to tell you that whole backstory is how many people right now are listening are saying, oh, I can do that for a year, I can do that for six months. You know what? It's not that bad. I can sacrifice. How many people sacrifice in their life for the greater good, for a short time, for someone they love, for someone that they just wanna make happy, we people please, we sacrifice for people in our lives. And at the time we think that we understand why we're doing it. Now, what ended up happening to me, I just kept every single day, it was like I was stuck in purgatory so, it was the same every single day. Now a lot of people, I'm sure you've met so many incredible people who, when they've achieved greatness, it has stemmed from the fact that they've hit rock bottom. So, many people that I know who have achieved amazing things in life stems from hidden rock bottom, because they don't think they've got well, there's nowhere else to go. Right? Well, I've hit rock bottom and so, you know, I've got nothing else to lose, so I may as well go for it. But what about the hundreds of millions of people that would just like me? You never hit rock bottom. And so, every single day just becomes like you are on that ham start on the wheel, you're just doing the activities, you're just taking care of the day, you're taking care of the family, you're taking care of the house, you're taking care of the people you care about and all along the way, you just get into this perpetual motion. And that's what I call purgatory the mundane, because I never hit rock bottom. And that was exactly why I ended up being stuck for eight years because I didn't hit rock bottom, nothing ever jolted me into action, nothing ever I basically slapped me in the face and said, Lisa, wake up, is this the life you want? Nothing ever did that. And so, I spent eight years of my life doing the same thing in utter miserable like I was utterly miserable. And so, for anyone listening right now, I want them to know that they can. For me, I had a beautiful relationship with my husband. I still do. I have a roof over my head. And so, every day when I was stuck in this perpetual motion, I was using gratitude as a way to keep me like self sooth. Right? It was like, oh my God, but Lisa is this really your life. And then I was like, oh, but you're grateful for your husband. Lisa, you really want your whole life, you want to live in America. And now you are here and you're complaining that you're not making movies. How ungrateful are you? Right? So, I was using gratitude as that self-soothing piece to keep going throughout my day. You know, Lisa, this isn't the life you want, oh, but don't worry. You have the husband that loves you. You know how many people don't even have that. Now the gratitude, as you can see was keep, was helping me but at the same time, after eight years, it was exactly what helped keep me stuck. And what I wanna say to people right now, listening is you can absolutely be grateful for something beautiful in your life. And yet you have every single right to ask for more in other areas of your life, just cause you're grateful for one thing doesn't mean that you should absolutely just be settling for other things. Why can't we ask for more? Why can't we ask for an amazing spouse and amazing career and a wonderful family and a roof over our heads. Who said that we shouldn't ask for that?

Michael: Yeah. And that is so incredibly important because people get so caught in that. I mean, I come from a background, you know, being homeless as a kid on the streets to survive, looking at my life, I'm the zip code. Right? You know how this goes, and I would just be like, fuck, I got food today, I should be happy. And then like the more I got into personal development and doing the work and like showing up every single day, I was like, why should I be satisfied? Why can that lifestyles of the rich and famous with Robert Leach, if you ever saw that show, you see these people on their yachts and their big houses and all the food in the world. And while I'm not there yet, like it's a part of my life, I go, why can't I have that if I want it. And I think that we're so tied in this idea, it's like I was watching your Ted talk one time, I think two or three years ago. And you're like perception is reality. And so much of our experience is what we perceive from our environment, the people around us, the information we absorb. And I think one of the most unfortunate aspects of the human disposition is we kind of sit in our own sorrow for a moment and go, I guess this is it. What do people really need to do? Like if you looked at this from just an adjustment, from the fixed mindset to an abundance mindset, I won't even call it growth here, I'll just call it abundance. What do they need to do? Because here you are. You're golden handcuffed to fucking gratitude, which is insane if you think about it. And yet it's like, you're unfulfilled, but you have everything. So, what do you do? Like how do you shift that thought process?

Lisa: Yeah, I think it just becomes what life do you want? You know, we're so caught up in other people telling us what we should and shouldn't have and how greedy we are if we want more or how ungrateful we are, if we want something different. I'm just such a non, like, why do we just keep judging each other? Why can't we just give each other beauty and generosity and grace and say, hey, look, are you happy? Are you living a life that actually fills you up? And if not, what would it look like if you did? Like, what would that actually look like? And now just tell yourself you have every right to get there. Like, it doesn't have to be this like evil, you know, like I want everything in life, it's like, no, like, why can't we, you know, to your question, it's like, well, aren't you grateful for X, Y, and Z, it's like yes, but you can still want more. And why is it wrong to want more? Why is it wrong to want to be happy? Want to have a great relationship, want to have a fantastic career, want to have family that you love? Like, I want that for every single human and now it becomes, how do we get it without like stepping on other people, without disrespecting other people, right? Like have a moral compass, but I just think it is important to give each other the empowerment to say, hey, what is it that you want? And what is holding you back? And, you know, how do you get there? And I'm not even saying cuz one of other thing that I get asked a lot actually in interviews is, you know, what do you wanna say to people that wanna create impact in the world? And I'm just like, well, who am I to judge that someone wants to create impact in the world? Like, again, there's so much messaging in social media right now about what we should do, what we shouldn't do, what's acceptable, what's not acceptable, what life is should you leave, what feels right? And it's just like for heaven's sake, when are we just gonna stop? Like, honestly, if someone's listening right now and they're not excited about their life. And they've spent the last 10 years studying they've, you know, made their parents proud and they went to college and they, you know, finished their degree and they went and got a well-paid job and they're working up their corporate ladder and they've told so many people that this is what they're gonna do and they've been grinding it for ages. And now all of a sudden, they're like, you know what, I'm not having a fulfilled life. And what would be actually fulfilling is if I quit my job right now, and I worked to nine to five and I sold my house because it was way too expensive and actually what would make me happy is to Netflix and chill with my partner in a one-bedroom condo and eat ding dongs and cake. Respect who the hell am I to tell you what life you should live? And that's all I'm coming from. The book, radical confidence is really putting zero judgment on anyone. It is just saying, what is that life you want? Are you living it? Or have you just accepted the word fine as a way to describe your life.

And in what world did we accept that fine was good enough. When we were kids. When you turned around to a kid and you said, what do you wanna do in life? Like, what do you wanna be? How do you want life to be? No kid was like, I just wanna be fine. Right? Most kids are just like, I wanna be an astronaut, I wanna be a teacher, and it's nowhere in life I think did we ever say fine was okay, that was never, the dream is this little kid. And so, I'm just gonna come, keep coming back to how do we stop judging each other and how do we empower each other to allow each other, to get to the life that we actually want?

And so, if that life is, I wanna quit this corporate job, cuz I freaking hate it and I've committed my whole life and I'm no longer enjoying it. And I actually just want a life of being able to walk around the meadow and work a nine to five because walking in the meadow is happy to happiness, to me. Respect. How do you do that? That is first of all, accepting that fine, isn't good enough then asking yourself,cause so many of us say, I'm gonna do that when right. I'll do that when. I get enough money, when I get enough energy, when I get enough time, when I get enough, you know, knowledge or whatever. And so, I just wanna propose with everything that I've just said, what happens if that when never comes? Would you still be doing exactly what you do today? Would you still be doing it? And if the answer is no, then now radical confidence, the book is ready for you to help guide you through what you need to do on a day to day so that you can really show up to eventually actually have the life that you want. Not what your parents want, not what your spouse wants, not what your kids think you should want, not what your boss wants, not what anyone else want. But what you want and how do you do that? How do you show up with radical confidence? How do you set boundaries? How do you actually speak up? How do you find your voice? How do you set guides and rules around the life that you were trying to create? All of that is in the book.

Michael: Yeah. And I think that it's so much about two things come to mind, the how, because you said, how do you do that? How do you do that? And my thought was one, you have fucking conversations like this that are really honest and really truthful and really about the betterment of humanity while simultaneously recognizing that every person is on their own journey and they have to decide. I recently posted something on social that went a little viral and I was like, don't listen to coaches, don't listen to authors or speakers or podcasts, don't listen to anything we fucking say it doesn't matter, cuz the only thing that matters are how you feel when you look at yourself in the mirror. And you know, it was really interesting that I recently got unbroken tattooed on my knuckles.

 Lisa: Oh, that's awesome!
Michael: Thank you. And I was on an airplane and this woman just, I could tell, she just needed to ask, she needed to ask, she goes, why would you do that to yourself? And I go, because it makes me feel good, not the physical pain of it. Right? But this thing of like the ownership, it's what I would contend with your wonder woman necklace. Right? I said to myself, who am I? How do I wanna live in the world? How do I want to show up? What is my avatar, right? And this is who I am. And in this tremendous amount of ownership in the face of shame and guilt and hurt and people who throw stones and just realizing like, even though it's difficult and life tells you, you have to fit in this box and you have to be this way and the ingrainment of these ideations, especially from childhood, right? Growing up grief or Orthodox your parents, telling you this, your grandpa telling you the secret to a healthy marriage. And it's like, oh my fucking God. Like, what do you do if you don't change? And I think the sad part of the HOW, how that gets left out in this conversation is if you don't figure out the how for yourself on your deathbed, the word that you're gonna think of before it's all over is regret, and that is terrifying to me.

Lisa: Yeah, regret to me is actually one of the most fearful things I have in my life. You're a hundred percent. And that's why I process everything. A lot of people, you know, the comment that I get back a lot is that I'm very analytical and I think through every little thing and it's like, the truth is I do that so that I don't have regrets so that I am comfortable with my decision, because the thing is, of course regret a decision I made, I can't control that, but at least if I can process why I made the decision and I can reassure myself in hindsight that I gave it my all of focus and the reason, and I understand why I made a decision, the way that I did. I can't regret that decision based on the knowledge that I had at the. Right? So, I can just give myself the grace to be like, oh, you didn't know better. You processed it, everything that you knew in place in order to make a decision, but you couldn't have made another decision because you aren't who you are today. Right? So, like if we grow, we look back with the different lens because the lens we now currently have is more, I'd like to think it's clearer than it was when we are making that decision at the time. And so, that is a massive point of the thing that I talk about in detail about regrets and especially about not having kids, that was a big thing for me because so many people, or at least I thought I was gonna have kids, when I met my husband, I wanted four. And then as I got older and my dreams and desires started to change, I realized that if I wanted to actually give birth myself and have my own children, that like anything, the time is ticking. And, you know, I felt the pressure of having to make a decision and the idea of regret that was a big thing, because especially when it comes to giving birth to your own children, timing is a factor. And so, that was something I really had to process and now how I broke down in the book exactly how I chose not to have children, how you look at every single avenue that you can think of in that moment. So, what I did is I said, okay, well, I don't have kids right now, what would my life look like if I worked and had children? Another thing, how would it look if I just had children and gave up my work or how would it look if I didn't have children and just worked? And so, those were three decisions that I could see and so I took something which I call your average Wednesday, because your Wednesday's like non fund day. Right? It's like, you can convince yourself that a Friday would be a great day or a Monday, but it's like, what would like this decision that you're trying to make look like on an average Wednesday. And so, I just processed having kids, what would that look like on an average Wednesday, if I worked, did if I didn't work and that allowed me to really see the realities of what it would be like to have a child and that was how I then decided either I didn't want kids.

And so now, as I've gotten older, I can look back and say, I know exactly why I made the decision. Now whether my heart changes, what my north star changes, I can't control that. In five years, I may change my mind and go wow, I really want kids now, but I'll never regret the decision I made because I did it with as much thought process as possible with as much communication with my husband as possible, with as much research and prep and, you know, like kind of really self-assessing myself. And so, that is why I think it's so important to really look at what you're trying to do. Look at what goal it is. Look at what is involved in reaching that goal and then assessing does that feel right to you kind of coming full circle where we started this interview? Because if the answer is, yes, it feels right. Now at least, you know why you are doing it, and then you can just let yourself, you know, for me, at least I just knew that if regret ever came up, I would be okay with it because you can't change time and you can't predict what's going to happen in the future.

Michael: Yeah. You can't. And I think the further that you get into not only understanding yourself, but understanding yourself in your environment and the world, if you're really paying attention, I think you'll learn the greatest lesson, at least that I've learned to date. And that said, if you can be present, like that's the most important thing that matters, cuz we can ideate about the past all day long and reminisce about the past and for like create this insane reality doesn’t never going to come and we get trapped. And it's like this really interesting process of recognizing, like, if you can just sit with yourself and just be massively honest and truthful and be willing to just walk that path, you'll find out everything that you need to know about yourself. And if you're willing to do that, like, I've come to find it's beautiful, it's not like, like, fuck, there are hard days. Like, I don't think anything that we're talking about here is about like being happy or being, I am always joyful. Right? It's like, you said, like, honestly, like most Wednesdays in my life are very boring in consideration of many other days of my life. Right? But that makes the joy so much better, it makes the happiness so much better, the sadness, I feel it deeper. And there's this emotional experience that I think comes along with this radical ownership of who you are. And had me thinking about this moment that you had, and I know it's intimate moment, you shared it on a couple shows, and you were talking about the moment that you called Tom three times and you didn't pick up the phone and how that really became this cornerstone for your understanding your inherent power to pick yourself up off the floor, literally. And I would just love if you would go into that.

Lisa: Yeah, absolutely. So, I've been with my husband now about to celebrate our 20-year wedding anniversary. And so, I was very young when we met. And so, we've grown up together if you will. I always lent on him, he always lent on me we're partners. And so, I never really thought of anything was wrong with that, it never like dawned on me and we have this being business partners and life partners, we have this rule and the rule goes that if I need him, the wife needs her husband, not the business partner and needs her business partner. But if I need my husband, we have a rule that we have to call each other three times because of three times mean, hey, I'm calling as your wife, you need to pick up. So, I'm in this photoshoot, I'm having these really, really bad massive health issues at the time, I had really bad gut issues, to the point where I could barely stand up for longer than five minutes at a time. And it's gotten better like I had leaky guards and I won't even go down into like all the health issues that I had it's way too long. But I was really suffering, really suffering, I was 20 pounds lighter than you see me now, my hair was falling out, my nails were brit, I mean, I was very sick. But I didn't tell anybody, I tried to always grin and bear it as much as possible. And so, I'm in this photo shoot and I start getting these massive stomach cramps and so, I politely excuse myself. I quickly go upstairs cuz we're in my house. And so, we've got this rule and so I call my husband, I'm like, okay, great, he's gonna come and help me because we know we've got this rule. He knows I'm not asking him a business question. So, I call him once he doesn't answer, now at this point, I'm in so much pain, I've literally like fallen into my knees. I've grabbed my waist and I'm taking like breaths as much as I can cause I can barely breathe it was that bad. And so, I'm calling him, he doesn't answer the first time I call him the second time he doesn't answer. And I'm like, it's right, Lisa. He is gonna call; he's all gonna answer the third time. So, I call him and he doesn't answer. Now in that moment, I'm like, oh my God. Oh crap, what am I gonna do? Like, I need my husband to help me get up off the floor cause everyone's waiting for me, I got this photo shoot. So, I'm like, oh my God, I need my husband, I need my husband, a crap, a crap. And I was like, hang on a minute. I don't need him, I want him, but I don't need him. Lisa, you are your own freaking hero. Get up off the damn floor and save yourself. And in that moment, that one little moment where I got up, I realized I was my own hero. And that idea, that notion, that I can save myself that you don't turn to other people. You don't wait for someone to come along and rescue you. You don't look for someone else to make you stronger. You've got the strength within you, but you just have to freaking be willing to call on it and to get the F up. Like it isn't easy, but you have to find that power within yourself. Like, and that was the biggest thing. And so, after I got up, I went downstairs, I finished the photo shoot. Now at the end of the day, my husband saw the three missed calls and he comes running over. He's like, oh my God, I just saw three calls. Are you okay? I was like, it's all right, babe. I got it. And he's like, what do you mean? And so, I told him what happened. Now that story, this happened, maybe I think this was like about six years ago now, five years ago, something like that; that story breaks his heart. And he tells me that he's like, every time you tell him that, tell that story, I feel bad about myself cuz he said that, as my husband, he prides himself in being there for his wife. Now on the flip side I say to him, but you can't take that story away from you, babe, because this is the story the moment that I realized that I don't need you, but isn't that beautiful. A it's beautiful that I am not with you out of necessity, I am with you because I actually want to be with you. So, that's number one on why that's the most beautiful thing in a relationship.

And number two, that was the moment that I discovered how strong I was. And so, you can't take that away from me either. Like that's one of those moments that I go back to now, time and time and gain. And I want everybody listening right now to think about, how many times do we turn to other people because we don't actually believe in ourselves. We don't believe that we've got this. We don't believe that we're strong enough. But in that moment where literally it was well, Lisa, if you don't get up, you're staying on the floor like that was kind of the reality of it. And so that's when I just called on myself and I was like, all right, Lisa. Are you actually gonna save yourself? And I got up and that was one of those moments that I go back to time and time again. And that was exactly why now I say the end of every show, be the hero of your own life, that's why you know, talk about that in the book, that's why I've got my subtitle, like being your own hero, to me, changed everything from business. Now, when something goes wrong in the business, how is this my doing? How am I the hero? How do I have to save this? In my relationship when something's going wrong? I don't look for my husband to fix it. I look at myself and I'm like, Lisa, if this is on you, if you are the hero, if this is all your responsibility, what are you gonna do differently? How are you gonna show up and save yourself today? And so that mindset changed everything.

Michael: That's incredible. I mean that's like a literal testament of picking yourself off the ground and I think it's beautiful. One of the things I think people fear most often in this journey is transformation is that as they grow and as they become the hero that they lose a part of themselves. And so, I'm curious, are there any parts of you that you feel like you've lost that you miss or is it just like I've integrated and I've just leveled up?

Lisa: Oh, no, I hold onto every ounce of my insecurity on purpose. Now, what I mean by that is I love remembering and knowing where I started from that encourages me to keep going. So even now, when I think about something's not possible and I'm like, oh, well remember that you, when you were 14, you remember how you never thought that was possible. Look at what you did, Lisa. Right. So, it's like that encouragement. I think it's important to remember where you started from because it becomes a proof of what's possible of what you're capable of. But also, to be honest, there's a big part of me that's never gone. And so, I've accepted that and in accepting that it has stopped me from beating myself up. And what I mean by that is take for instance, this book, for example. About a year and a half ago, we've already, built and sold Quest Nutrition. We've created Impact Theory that has over half a billion views on our content. And only a year ago, someone reaches out to me and says to my husband, would Lisa consider writing a book? And when my husband came to me for this office, he's like, babe, you never guess what a literary agent just reached out and asked if you wanna write a book. And I was like, oh, that's nice. And he's, why are you brushing it off? And I was like, gosh, that's very nice, it's a compliment. Thank you. And he's like, are you not actually gonna take this seriously? And the very first words outta my mouth, this was a year ago, the very first words outta my mouth were well, who would buy a book from me? And I realized the 14-year-old insecure, Lisa that doesn't believe in herself is still here. And I don't beat myself up over, I've accepted that she's here and I actually greet her. And in that moment where I literally said out loud to my husband, well, who would buy a book from me? I paused, I looked at him and I was like, oh little Lisa still here, and I gave myself the grace. And in that moment, I was like, the grace is Lisa, you're petrified, you're scared, that's why that insecurity came up. Right? Because you are worried that if you wrote a book, what if it tanks, that's the truth. And so, the insecurity in me just tried to prevent me from being embarrassed by speaking up, say, Lisa, you're not gonna be good enough, don't write a book. And so, I've just learned to greet her, to accept her and to ask her what she's really worried about. And when you listen and she's warning it, Lisa, you dunno how to write a book, I now think of her as like, I call her, she used to be my critic and now she’s, my coach. She used to be the bitch and now she’s, my BFF. I got a couple of more than I could throw out there, but she used to be the person that voice, the insecurity, that little Lisa that felt badly about herself, used to keep me from ever doing anything. And now she's just my warning sign. So, when she spoke up, I was like, oh, okay, what is she worried about? Okay. She's worried about the fact that I dunno how to write a book and what if I write a book that it's terrible? It's like, oh, okay. She's actually right. I have zero idea how to write a book. So, one earth would I be like, forced cockiness into thinking that I can, I dunno how to write a book. So let me be the student. Let me be the learner, going back to something I said earlier, because I dunno how to do something and now I better learn. And so, I spent about a month just hitting up all my friends, Brendon Burchard, Mel Robins like anyone that I could think of that I had in my phone book, I was just like hitting them up. I had a list of questions, had 10 questions written out and I just called them and I was like, all right, I dunno how to write a book so please, if you don't mind giving me like 30 minutes and I just wanna ask you some questions, they're like, of course. So, I was like, what is the thing that's most surprising? What did you hate about it? What did you love about it? Would you ever do it again? What was the things that you would change? Was it good for your business? Was it good for your marriage? Like I literally just like have wrote all these questions and became the learner before I even started writing the book.

Now, the reason why I did that was because I listened to the young insecure Lisa that I made sure has never left me. So, going back to your question, I think it's very powerful to potentially keep the old you but I think I'm so goal oriented and I'm gonna keep saying this, it goes down to, does that old you like, are you able to use that person to encourage you to motivate you to move forward, to keep going? Or does that idea of the old you keep you paralyzed? Is it like, so you're no freaking good, what the hell are you doing? And so, if it keeps you paralyzed, if it makes you feel worse about yourself, then I'm goal oriented. So I'll go, okay, this doesn't serve me. So how do I either pivot, what do I do differently? And to my point, that negative voice, that old Lisa was detrimental to my self-esteem. And that was exactly how I said, how do I use this to help me moving forward? Because right now, this negative voice in my head, this bitch, the critic is keeping me stuck. And if I don't change anything, I'm gonna be stuck for the rest of my life. So, how do I pivot? How do I use this as a motivator? How do I use this as fuel? How do I use this to keep me going? And that's how I pivoted. And I was like, oh, just like someone in your life that cares about you sometimes has to say the hard thing. What if that was my voice in my head? And what would that look like if she was a bestie? And that was how I discovered that she would be warning you and that, that warning is something you can actually do about do something about, and then actually doing something about it, now you feel good about yourself because you're taking those steps forward in your learning.

Michael: That's absolutely beautiful. And I hope that people will rewind this and listen to what you just said again, because it matters so fucking much. I remember you told me that story we're having dinner in LA and I had goosebumps. I just got goosebumps again, it's really beautiful. Lisa, my friend, this has been incredible, incredible conversation. Before I ask you my last question, can you tell everyone where they can find you?

Lisa: Absolutely. This has been so much fun. Thank you for having me. You can find me @lisabilyeu on social media and then Women of Impact is my podcast that I do. You can check that out on YouTube or on podcast, or you can go to, and then radical confidence is the book where you can get that anywhere books are sold, Amazon target, or you can go to radicalconfidence.com to get amazing bonuses that we've got for you. So go over to radicalconfidence.com

Michael: Brilliant. Of course, we'll put the links in the show notes for the audience. My last question for you, my friend, what does it mean to you to be unbroken?

Lisa: It means that I can keep getting up no matter what comes my way.

Michael: Brilliantly said. Thank you so much for being here.

Unbroken Nation. Thank you so much for listening.

Please, like subscribe, comment, share.

Tell a friend.

And Next Time.

My friends, Be Unbroken.

I'll see you.