E54 How to change your own life with Annarose Kern

Michael: Anna Rose, what is up my friend. How are you?

Anna Rose: I'm so good. How are you?

Michael: I'm good. It's awesome to connect again. We met at influencer last year, which is not like a social media influencer, but as much as a conference for people who are looking to create change in the world and like moths to a flame, somehow, we found out of all the people there each other and had this really amazing couple of conversations. And, you know, I fully supported your efforts and everything that you do as a human being. And now we're going to have a conversation. So it's crazy. I think about serendipity often and how it's led us to this place.

Anna Rose: It's wild because when I went to influencer last year, I'd never been to anything like that really. I'd been to other personal development type things, but nothing so entrepreneurial. I was alone. Didn't go with anybody. I was actually kind of nervous and I got there. I sat down and you sat down next to me. And I was like, this dude is so cool. This is like, these are my people. I found my people. So it was indeed very serendipitous.

Michael: Yeah. It's interesting because I had been to personal growth seminars before, but it's been a long time. And going to that one, I was nervous, but I was so excited because some of my favorite human beings on planet earth were speaking. And that to me was an opportunity. I was like, I can't miss this. So I literally came back to America from Bali.

Anna Rose: Yeah, you were just gotten back from Bali. And I was like, oh my God, I love Bali. I spent some time there doing yoga and we instantly bonded over loving Bali. 

Michael: Yeah, and that, you know, what's crazy about that is like getting to, getting to that place there was so much lead up in my life where I'm like, how do I put myself in a position to be successful in life? And, you know, serendipity also takes action. So what was the course of your journey leading up to that moment? Because I think this is important, because people often don't really step into the idea that personal growth seminars are actually impactful. And they think that they're fucking woo-hoo and people jumping up and down and screaming, which yes, it is absolutely a part of it. And I'm normally just watching like, okay, you guys live your best life, but as a whole, like, there's something about personal growth in the self-healing journey that's so impactful. So how did you even get to influencer?

Anna Rose: Okay. So I got to take you back a couple years, a decade actually. I started my career as a hairstylist and makeup artist in Hollywood. That's all I ever wanted to do with my life. Since I was a little girl, I just wanted to make people beautiful. I moved from, I grew up in St. Louis, Missouri. I moved to Los Angeles when I was 18, started doing hair and makeup on little things, built my way, worked my way up to working being part of the local 706 union for film and television. So I working on the biggest and best movies and TV shows that you've seen, like shows that everyone has watched. And I thought that I was living my dream. You know, I was chasing this dream of being the hair person, the makeup person. And I got it. I was working on the hunger games. I was working Gordon Ramsey's personal. I was working on the bachelor. I was working on all of these huge things and it consumed my life so much that that's all I was, I was just my career. I even would say, like, I would speak it into existence. Well, I'm just a hairstylist. Well, I'm just a makeup artist. And I didn't really realize that in this obsession with chasing this goal, I had lost every other aspect of who I was. You know, I was not well-rounded as a person. I had, all of my relationships were failing. My friendships were suffering. My, you know, I hardly saw my friends because I was so addicted to my job. And it wasn't until about four years ago that I actually suffered from clinical burnout. And it was during this period of me suffering from clinical burnout, experiencing heart palpitations and overwhelm and anxiety and panic attacks so bad that I would have to pull my car over, that I was like, I got to do something. I got to do something, but I don't know what. I feel stuck. I feel trapped by in a house that I built for myself. I felt trapped in a career that I'd built for myself. And I couldn't see a way out. And so I went to a seminar that was recommended by my then boyfriend now fiancé. And he was like, just go to this thing. This woman was Danny Johnson. I don't know if you've ever heard of her. And he was like, she's, you know, there's some good parts about it. There's some stuff that you're going to leave behind, but I think it might help you. So I went to her seminar. I'd never really been to a personal growth seminar before. Not like that, not like an in-person conference. And I went and I was like, Oh, this is what, I get it. Like, you get a type of clarity from taking a whole day or two days or three days or five days to sit and focus on what it is that has you stuck. When you're at a seminar, you get to just sit in the room and listen to people. And all you get to focus on is how is what they're saying going to translate into something actionable for me. You have the space in that room to just concentrate on what's not working for you or what you want to take away. And I went away from Danny Johnson and I was like, this is cool. Like, I really like this environment. I wonder if I could recreate this experience for other women to have the space, to have the clarity, to have these kinds of aha moments that I'm having. And then I let it go. This was probably about five years ago actually. I let it go because I thought, well, that's, I can't do that. I can't coach people like [06:14 inaudible]. 

Michael: Limiting beliefs. 

Anna Rose: Yeah, because again, it comes up. I'm just a hairstylist. What do I know? I don't have the education. I don't have the training, but you know what I do have, as a hairstylist, I have an ability to hold space for people while they talk. I have an ability to listen. I have an ability to guide. I have an ability to get feedback. Oh wait, all of a sudden, those skillsets of what I'm already doing are translatable. I needed the perspective of somebody else telling me that this is possible for you. So I started going to influencer. I've gone to other multiple events at Brendan's and seeing what was possible for me. And the thing that I love about a seminar is you get to immerse yourself for a day or two days or whatever in a world where it's nothing but possibility.

Michael: Yeah. You know, they're powerful. They're poignant like realistically, because of the industry that we're in, sometimes you can end up in a snake oil salesman seminar, that does happen.

Anna Rose: I also got conned on a $5,000.

Michael: Yeah. That happened. Like that's crazy. So, you know, I think about that often and I have lost money on seminars too, where you go and you're like, wow, I didn't get anything from that. So, you know, I’ll say this as important as I think these things are, you have to do your due diligence. You have to do your research. But I want to rewind here because I think this is a really interesting topic of conversation, because there's something about that moment in which you actually make the decision that you start to take a little bit of ownership in your life, because look, realistically, you were faced with being presented the opportunity to do this. Something that you weren't unfamiliar with and you could have just as easily have said, no. What I want to know is what happened in that moment where you're like, okay, I'm actually, I see that there is something here that may inform me in a way that changes something. And in that there was a decision to make. So what was happening in the time where you're like, okay, let's see what happens.

Anna Rose: I'm going to be really honest. I got so sick of my own shit. I got so sick of complaining about being tired, being burned out, having nothing left for anybody else that I was like, my choices are pivot or die. Do something else, figure out a way to get out of here or die on that set. And it sounds dramatic. But I remember so clearly the moment where I stepped out of the hair trailer, we're in a parking lot in downtown LA. I remember it like it was yesterday. I was looking up, they were building a skyscraper. And I remember feeling, you know, when you have a panic attack and it feels like everything's closing in around you, I thought, yeah, you know, and there's looking up at something so big, while you're having a panic attack is probably the worst thing that you can do, because it feels like it's going to fall on you. But I remember thinking I'm going to die in a parking lot and tomorrow they'll have a new hairstylist at my station doing my job. And this production will not skip a beat. And in my head, my friend, Kendra, she has a tattoo on her wrist. It's just a little dash, it's about that big. And I remember asking her like, what does that tattoo mean? And she goes, when you die, the only thing on your tombstone that represents your life is a dash between two dates. And I never want to forget that I get to choose what that dash is. I remember thinking I'm going to die in this parking lot. The dash is going to be short and I'm going to have nothing to show for it. And if I'm going to die in a parking lot, I sure as shit better have made a bigger impact on people than just combing their flyaway.

Michael: Yeah. That's potent. I get goosebumps actually, because that to me is beautiful. There's something about in that moment of listening and following your intuition and saying like, I'm going to be accountable for myself that really does change everything. Like I think about these moments and I'm going to assume I am going to put words in your mouth. That is one of those moments. And I rewind going back to this moment of looking in the mirror being 275 pounds. And I lost, you know, 50, and I was on this journey to healing and I'm in the process. But like I was just stepping up enough and, in that moment, and I won't forget this, there's a level of intensity where this thought process came to my mind where I was like, no excuses, just results. And I just buried that into my head because I was at this plateau where I was like, I’ve been working so hard. I lost like fucking 50 pounds. I quit smoking. I'm not drinking every day. I'm now single, because I had been working on this relationship that was never going to work. And so I had to ultimately do the things I had to do. And I left the place I was at living in Indiana and came to Portland and on this journey and blah, blah, blah. But as I stood in that mirror and I looked at it, there was a level of intensity that existed in me that I'd never had before. That can be scary for people. And you relate to that because this is your moment where you're like, I'm going to be more than this thing that would be my dash. I'm going to change what happens in my life. I'm going to move towards that. How did you leverage that intensity in that moment to like step into that, because that shit goes away real fast.

Anna Rose: Yeah. It goes away real fast. And it's easy to think like this was just a thought that I had. This was just a moment. Let it pass. It's not that, it's very easy for us to talk ourselves out of things. Especially when the thing, the pivot, the change feels scary and overwhelming. So I think the most important lesson that I’ve learned is that none of it happens overnight. It's a process you don't go from, I want a new career to, I have a new career in a day. It took me months of learning, of exploring, of getting trained in new skills, getting qualified to do something so that I felt like I was ready. And then going, okay, I'm going to start talking about this. I'm going to claim this for myself. One of the biggest things that I was, I was holding back, not saying, you know, studying for a long time, being ready, getting ready, and then not saying it. And actually it wasn't until influencer last year. I think it was a conversation that you and I had where you said, have you told anybody that this is what you want to do now? That this is what you're going to start doing? And I was like, no, not really. 

Michael: We were sitting in front of that little grocery store.

Anna Rose: Yes, and you said, can you please tell people, can you please claim it? And I did. I went home that night. I put it on my Instagram story. I said, Hey, you all, I'm starting coaching business. I want to help women live better lives. I want to help them break their dating patterns. I want to help them stop their toxic burnout. I want to help them get better boundaries in order to live more authentically and feel like their true selves. I want them to stop doing what I was doing and start living better. And I put it on Instagram and that was me having the world hold me accountable, mostly because you pushed me to do that. So thank you.

Michael: Well, you know what, I think that in life, the most important thing that we can do is try because the worst thing that's going to happen, 99.9% of the time is that it's not going to work. You probably not going to die.

Anna Rose: That's not the worst thing that can happen.

Michael: You are probably not going to die. You're probably not going to go to prison. I mean, I’ve done illegal shit. And it worked. And I got lucky and I didn't go to prison, but that other 1% is going to prison. And I think about the effort that I took, now, that's another life. If you are first time listening to this, let me be clear. I was a child. I haven't done anything illegal in a very long time. But that said in that moment though too, you didn't have to do that. And that wasn't just me. The only thing that I did in that moment is I told you what you already fucking knew. You knew this. What I'm curious about since we're talking about this moment. And I remember I had gotten back to the Airbnb and these guys had this giant dogs, slobbering all over everything. And I'm sitting there looking and I'm like, oh wow, she's posting them out that thing, she did what she said she was going to do. I already knew the thing that you were going to do cause you told me, but you had to step up to the play. Like, what is that moment for? And I think this is important for everyone across the board in multiple different scenarios. But there's a moment when you're faced with a decision. 

Anna Rose: Yeah. I think we are, women specially taught to be small. We're taught to play small. We're taught to play quiet. Don't brag. Don't be loud. Don't, whatever it is, like don't claim it. And it just takes a moment of courage to change your whole life. It takes a moment of bravery for you to step into that. It's scary. But like you said, what's the worst thing that can happen. Somebody laughs at me on the internet, okay. I'm not going to die. Nobody's getting hurt. I'm taking a risk. And by taking the step and feeling the fear and doing it anyways, it got me one step closer to the goal that I had. It got me out of hiding, out of the shadows and forced to be held accountable. Okay, you’re starting coaching business. You better start talking about it. You better start looking for clients.

Michael: You know, that's interesting. And I think about that and creating sovereignty, right? And fortifying your ability to kind of remove criticism from people who don't matter from your life. But I'm going to tell you this, somebody listening right now and I'm talking to you person listening is in this position where they have had this conversation that they're ready to try this thing that they're uncomfortable with and they don't do it. They don't step into it. And in that moment, you, I think you had already made up your mind and you were okay with the idea that people would judge you. But before that moment of being okay with people will judge you, that's probably what was keeping you from stepping into it, right? The fear of criticism, because it's so often like we are worried about like, man, fuck, what do other people think about me? And your superpower is that you don't care so much.

Anna Rose: I don't care. I don't care because really what effects does that other person have on me? The only affect that person has on me is the power that I give to them. A total stranger doesn't have an effect on my life really. Like them saying like, Oh, I don't like that you talk about weed so much. I'm wearing a sweatshirt that's a straight out of weed. I don't like that you swear or whatever it is that they don't like about me, doesn't actually affect me. Unless I go, oh my God, I'm not pleasing everybody. And then I can get myself all worked up about all the people who don't like me. People think I'm too positive, the people who think I'm whatever they think, I give them the power to affect me. Now this is a very complex concept. If you're hearing this and going, I'm super affected by everything that other people say about me, because it takes a ton of work for you to detach from the opinions of others. But detaching from the opinions of others and giving yourself that freedom is the gifts that you give yourself and the best way to do that is to surround yourself with other people who think like you. 

Michael: Yeah. I mean, that's communal right? That's how we end up in that place like influencer. Because we had made up our mind that we want to be surrounded by people who are about something different right? We all have our clubs. You might be an e-sports guy or UFC girl, or, you know, whatever. We all have that thing that we want to be a part of and stepping into that. I think, especially now you can even create your own club, right? We have zoom, we have the internet, you can do that. You can find people. There's what? Almost 8 billion people on planet earth. I'm pretty sure that there's someone out there who will support you. But so much of that conversation that we have in our head is pointed inwards, where we're like trying to validate how we feel about ourselves against other people's opinions. And ultimately like that doesn't work. You know, I think you know as well as I do like that's not a thing.

Anna Rose: Yeah. And you have to, in order to like kind of move past other people's judgment, you first have to stop judging yourself. Like you have to stop judging yourself. Why are you holding yourself to impossible standards? People hold themselves to insane standards, right? Like I have to get X amount of work done before Friday, or I can't have Saturday off. Like people who work for themselves, I hear the whole time I have to get a certain number of things. It's like, why? Why are you holding yourself to, you know, that you can't get that done? You know that. There is no end to the work in life, right? And this is like, I'm sure people have heard me lecture on this. I talk about work-life balance all the time. There is no end to the work. There will be work there for you the next day, until the day that you die, whether it's at home, whether it's at your job, whether it's in your own personal growth, there is no end. There is only time and what you do with it, you get to decide when the work ends. Right. You get to decide when the judgment ends, you get to decide when the comparison ends, when the obsession with other people's opinions ends. 

Michael: But how do you fortify that? Because I think on paper, that sounds great. Oh, you're telling me I can just decide. Oh, perfect. Well, no shit, I should've done that 25 years ago. That's not reality though. Like how do you even fortify that in yourself? Because I know that you've had to go on that journey of doing that for yourself. So have I, so have most people have stepped into a personal growth journey. What was that like for you to fortify that in yourself?

Anna Rose: So It's literal practice, right? Like it's like a yoga practice or a meditation practice. It's a thing that you do every single day. Now you don't do a yoga practice with the intent of a yoga grand finale, right? Or whatever, or yoga game. It's not like that. You're not practicing for some big goal. The practice is the repetitive nature of doing it every day, right? The practice of using social media with intention, unfollowing anybody that you compare yourself to, blocking people who you don't feel, who are giving you feedback that you don't need, or you don't want, journaling with intention of releasing self-judgment. There are a thousand practices out there for journaling specifically is such a powerful tool. If you're working on, I want to be less hard on myself. Getting the thoughts out on paper, that your self-judgment thoughts and looking at them and going would I say this to my best friend, something as simple as that.

Michael: That specifically, I think about how powerful journaling really is, but how do you step, like for you, because I think this is really interesting to watch growth happen. You can measure it by the person that you used to be. You can look at this and go, okay, I used to be that, I was afraid. I was scared of my power. I was scared of my intuition. I was scared of judgment. Whatever those things might be that are fear-based that kind of guided you to where you are now, but there's that moment where you do have to get vulnerable with yourself. And you talk about journaling with intention may. How do you step into intimacy and vulnerability with yourself?

Anna Rose: With yourself? You have to, I think for me, understanding that your journal is like a, it's like a brain dump and not judging what comes out. So here's, would you like to hear how crazy, I used to be about journaling, what I thought it had to be. I buy these beautiful journals and then I would be like, I have to write in this, but only with nice handwriting and only with a certain kind of pen because I want it to be beautiful. And if it's not pretty, then it's not good enough. This journal is not pretty enough for me to just dump my thoughts into, it needs to be like, I had this whole thing in my head. Do you want to see what my journal looks like now? It's a spiral notebook. And I just, I'm a big on list-making because I find that I struggle with structure. When I try to write like today, I did this, no, I want to bullet point. What are the 10 thoughts that I'm thinking about myself right now? I need to challenge that. So I'm not productive enough. That was one that came out today, not being productive enough and not focused enough on my goals. I'm not making progress. You know, and you can list, I would list out like, what am I thinking about myself today? And then now it's on paper. So now I can challenge my own thoughts. Are you really not being productive enough? Because I think you just planned out eight weeks’ worth of content in about an hour and a half. That's pretty productive. Are you really not focused?

Because you just sat there and worked for an hour and a half. Are you really not getting enough done or whatever it is that's coming up. Everybody has different stuff. I'm not a good mom. I hear this a lot from clients. I am not a good mom. Is it true? Is that true? Is that thought true? No, what's the evidence? Your kids are healthy, they're thriving, you know, they're alive. You're a pretty good mom if you're keeping them alive. Is there an alternative explanation for this thought? Well, yeah, I was late to pick up my daughter three days in a row at school. So I think I'm a bad mom. So can we be a little more gentle with ourselves now that we've unpacked the thought, kind of a little bit of the process that I take people through when journaling this. I actually have a Socratic, I call it the Socratic questioning method because it's based on the Socratic questioning method, but I have a little graphic and I can actually, if you want to send it to your audience, I'm happy to share it with them. It's on my website. You can download it, of how to walk yourself through once you've jotted down those thoughts that you're having about yourself. Let's challenge those, let's stop accepting them at face value.

Michael: Yeah, I think about that in two ways, you've got the site of reframing, right? And kind of recreating your narrative and your story. And I also think that there's a level of applying and attaching meaning to it right? Often, I think that this is my personal experience. It was never good enough for me to just journal something and not create meaning behind it so that I could really create a reframing process. Because it wasn't enough to say I'm not going to eat chocolate cake or I'm lazy. That's because I eat chocolate cake or whatever that thing might be. And then to step in it and go, okay, that's not actually true. I'm not lazy because I eat chocolate cake. What I need to do is take better care of myself and remove that from my life. Because when I do that, then I feel better. And looking at the overarching mission of my life is like, how do I feel better? How do I be better? How do I grow? How do I change? And you know, there's so much value in writing because we have all these thoughts that just circle up here in our brain all day long. And it's like, what do you do with those? Where do you put them? Put them somewhere where you can assess them. And like, not everyone needs to journal in this aspect where it's like, I'm going to write down every tedious detail about me. Sometimes you just need a place to exist that's outside of your own brain.

Anna Rose: Yeah. And also looking at a thought that you've had on paper, rather than just thinking it, it changes the way that you view it. Because when it's in your head, it feels huge. It feels overwhelming. It's hard to digest it. But when it's on paper, everything becomes a little bit clearer because you have just enough distance from it that you can actually see it written down.

Michael: Yeah. Yeah. And that's how you achieve goals and dreams and the things that you want. You make them real because you move towards them. So when you're in this place of having this moment, cause I want to rewind because I think this is a really special, you're looking at life through the dash and you're thinking about this is what's next. And this is the thing that I'm going to do to create fulfillment in my life. What's the journey been like to getting to that place? Because I don't think most people recognize that they're allowed to change. You're like allowed to your career. You're allowed to change your partner. You're allowed to change your hair, right? How do you step into the acceptance of the change?

Anna Rose: I have to tell you that was one of the biggest. And honestly it still continues to be a struggle for me, seeing myself as something else was even harder for me than other people seeing me as something else. I had spent so much time kind of building Anna Rose, the beauty expert in my mind, turning myself into this person, which I was, I was absolutely and still am honestly an expert in all things beauty related. But I had a thought of no one's ever going to be able to see me as something else because I wasn't giving myself permission to see myself as something else. We're taught that you have one career, you pick that career, you do that until you retire, you get a 401k, and you'd retire, and you have a nice life. It doesn't have to be that way. It doesn't have to be that way. I don't think human beings were designed to only do one thing, to only live in one place, to only have these singular life experiences in one lane, you can pivot at any moment, but you have to accept the fear and uncertainty that goes along with that, because it takes time for you to adjust to a new role. I'm still learning every single day to remind myself, touch it every day, touch your goal every day so that you remember where you're going. 

Michael: And I would have to think this is my experience and I'm curious if you relate, part of the understanding of me. And like, even now I’ve been doing this for years, I still am not in that place of comfort. And it's not necessarily because I measure it against this idea that I will do the career that I want to have. Cause I'm already in it. It's the measure of my goal is so fucking high, like I don't know how to get there other than doing it every single day. And when I reached that, I'm going to be like, okay, cool time to reassess and do it again. So how do you like stay motivated in this? Because I think it's easy to get into it. It's much harder, day one is cool. Week one, great, month one, you're probably still going great. Seven months, eight months, nine months, ten months, five years from now. Like how do you stay the course? Like, what is it that's inspiring you right now?

Anna Rose: So I think for me, it's having people around me, whether that's my partner, whether that's friends, whether that's I have a coach that holds me accountable, but other people holding me accountable, right. If I'm going to show up and be the life coach for these people, I better live it, I better live it. I better keep sharing it. Personally I find that social media holds me accountable in an awesome way, because people are expecting for me to show up in a certain way there. And I got to step into it. I got to keep, you know, testing myself in order to stay grounded, in order to stay focused on my goals. Because yeah, it's really easy to be like, this is great, week one, month one, month six. But there are moments where you experience the dip and reminding yourself, like, why am I doing this? Why? Sometimes taking myself back to where I got started to that moment of standing there going, if I'm going to die today, the dash between those dates doesn't mean anything. You better make it mean something, it will kick my into gear, right. Knowing like, there's somebody out there who needs me right now. There's somebody out there who needs my help, and I can help them because I have a skillset that they connect with and I'm selling them short if I don't keep going.

Michael: Yeah. That's so much a part of it. And that's true for everyone. Like I think about it. I have a coach, I have multiple mentors. I have so many people that I look to in groups that I'm in for accountability. Not only in career in business, but in life and all of it. Cause I'm always thinking like if I can get myself to be the best version of myself, well understanding like that's improbable, perfection isn't real. I'm never going to be whatever that thing is that I’ve kind of manifested in my head, in this tangible right now, there it is, you can touch it way. I can move towards it every single day and every single day I do. But I also know that it's a part of the process. A part of this journey is just saying, like, if I'm willing to step into being the best version of me, then I can serve other people, right? 

Michael: Right. Because there's nothing. And I don't know if you relate with this. Cause I'm really curious because somebody listening is probably thinking, man, I’ve want to be a coach. I want to like step into helping people. How do you, how do you do that? Right? How do you make that declaration that you're going to be willing to serve and then step into it? Because that's effectively what it is. You know, I don't talk to a lot of people who are coaches, but we relate to this. Cause this is our journey. And as that, for me, I look at coaching as I want to serve. I want to show people that it's fucking possible. That no matter what has happened in your life, you can prosper. And for me that's important and that's impactful. We all started out some place. And as you're in that, and as you're thinking about that, how do you make the declaration that you're like, all right, I'm going to do it. I'm going to just go for it. Cause like the dash is great and all, but like there's something else there where you're like, all right, I'm going to go. This is going to happen. What's that experience like?

Anna Rose: I think for me, I always think about what I wish I had found earlier. Like I came to personal development sort of late in my like late twenties, early thirties. If I had hopped on that train and found somebody, if Instagram had existed back in the day and I had found somebody who could have guided me with reminders, with accountability, with coaching, where could I be now? And I think about that person is out there that 22-year-old version of me is out there. And she needs me. And knowing that I have the ability to hold space for people, I have the ability to see from a bird's eye view, what needs to be tweaked, what needs to happen next and being able to guide people, you know, that's like, it's a calling and not everybody has the capacity for that. But the people who do have the capacity for that can feel it. They can feel it. I want to help people. That's my drive. That's my goal. How do I step forward into this? And it's like, start with what's right around. Start with, you know, the people who come to you for advice, like start there. And then I'd say like, if you want to be a coach, start doing your research on what's out there, start seeing what's out there and what's resonating with you. And what's not resonating with you. Look for training programs that click with your style of, you know, there's a million people out there sharing information about personal growth, information about personal development. Everybody has a different way of doing it. So you're going to find people that you vibe with. Maybe it's me, maybe it's you, maybe it's one of the many giants in our industry, but everybody has a different style. And I think if you want to be a coach finding your voice is the first step, finding your voice. What is it that you feel like you can help with specifically? 

Michael: And that's what it's about. And then just feeling like in that moment, you do have to tap into courage a little bit, because I distinctly remember New Year’s Eve, I guess it had been four, maybe five years at this point, kind of just putting it out in the universe. Like I'm stepping into something here and it's terrifying and you do have to bit up a little bit of courage, but you know, one of the things that was profound for me in my personal growth journey is that I developed this thing called self-esteem. Wow! Holy shit. Talk about something incredible, right? Being able to tap into this place where you feel good about who you are. I'm curious, cause I love this conversation. What has been the most profound change for you in your personal growth journey?

Anna Rose: I think for me, because I spent so many years people pleasing and trying to say the right thing and look the right way so that other people would like me. Just dropping that and being who I feel like I really am was the most profound thing for me being like, Oh, I can just dress however I want. And it doesn't matter what other people think. And I can just say, I don't have to make myself small to make other people feel more comfortable. For years, I would try to blend in with the background. I only wore all black. I would, you know, and my job did encourage that. I was supposed to be out of the way seen and not heard, do your job and then go and nobody should know that you're there. And for a long time, I let that keep me really small. I wouldn't talk about struggles publicly. I wouldn't talk about my, I was very private on social. I would only share anything that was related to my job and beauty and nothing else, nothing about my personal life, nothing about my own vulnerabilities. Like being vulnerable was not a thing for me. I was not good at it. I kept my walls up and I kept myself small so that other people would feel comfortable around me and realizing that that did not serve me, that actually made me almost disappear. Literally made me almost disappear. And when I realized I get to wear whatever I want, and I can say things. And if people don't agree with me, that's okay. If they're mad, it's okay. Like releasing my obsession with people pleasing is what really started me kind of on the journey to having self-esteem because then I wasn't looking for the validation in other people. It was in me.

Michael: Do you think, and this may be a retrospective understanding, but do you think that you were looking for vulnerability for self-esteem for those things? Or do you think they came by proxy by just being curious?

Anna Rose: I was purposefully avoiding vulnerability, because I thought it made me weak and it wasn't until I realized that like me being vulnerable turned me into a magnet, it had people coming to me, drawn to me because I was okay with talking about the thing that they were scared to say. And everybody wanted to be around me, once I started realizing that vulnerability is actually a superpower, yeah, it does make some people uncomfortable, but those aren't my people.

Michael: Yeah. And what was, as you're in it, like I think about, I think about vulnerability kind of catching me off guard and you know, I started this journey so long ago that it wasn't even a buzzword. It was just like, Oh, I recognize that in these moments I can show up in this particular way with someone and whether it be around intimacy or a conversation or whatever that was. And now it's such like a hot word. It's like vulnerability, pop, pop, pop, it's fucking everywhere. And I don't think people truly understand that vulnerability is about you first. And building you and self-esteem. And to me getting that place in this personal growth journey where you find those, it's just so incredible because you're right, everything changes. It becomes like, think about the person you were versus person that you became because you were willing to step into the fear of the unknown. 

Anna Rose: Dude, I can tell you the exact moment that it happened. The exact moment. I was in Thailand, I was doing yoga teacher training. I lived there for about three months. I had a rough time in Thailand because I was going through a lot personally. I was going through this kind of thing where I was alone. I didn't have any of my stuff. I was living in like a very rustic situation that, you know, I'm a city girl. I'm not used to living in a hut in Thailand where like lizards crawl the walls at night and I have to take a shower in a bucket. So I was really going through it. And one night we had like, it was a lecture by the owner of the school, but he showed Brene Brown's Ted talk from 10 years ago or whatever it was, her first Ted talk about vulnerability. And I remember sitting in the yoga Shalla in Thailand getting eaten alive by mosquitoes, watching this thing being projected on a screen and having this moment going, oh my God, that's what vulnerability is. I truly didn't understand what it meant. And if you haven't watched that, if you're listening and you have never watched that, that changed my life. That was really the beginning of me going, I have a capacity for holding space for people in vulnerable moments that other people don't, like realizing that this is my superpower here, but I didn't really know what it was. And that Ted talk made it so clear that I went, Oh, I can do this. I can do this. I can be this person. It's okay. That was, Brene giving me permission by proxy to be vulnerable. And it changed everything.

Michael: Yeah. You know, it's really funny again, heading into our serendipity. That was the same for me. It was Brene Brown's talk on vulnerability. And in fact, I put it in the book think unbroken because as I recall, it was probably about seven years ago I want to say, I had been listening to ask Gary V and someone in the comments on YouTube had written something about, go check out this Brene Brown human. And it didn't sit with me the first time. The first time I saw it, I was like okay, whatever, you know, Cause I'm like, how do you like vulnerability? I'm a man. I'm a dude from the Midwest covered in tattoos. What do I know about vulnerability? And in retrospect, I go back to that moment being so pivotal, because that planted the seed. And then about four years ago, I watched it again and I was like, okay, I'm ready to actually step into this.

Anna Rose: Yeah. That's so crazy that it's the same content that like had that light bulb moment for you.

Michael: I think sometimes you just have to be guided. You know, and you know, if we are a horse in this scenario, we were guided and you know, initially I did not drink, but the second time I was like, Oh, there's something here that I'm curious about because also it might not be the right time yet. People often want to step into this idea. Like now I have to do it. Now I have to do it, I have to heal. If I don't do this now, blah, blah, blah. But you might not be ready. Did you have moments where you were like, I want to do this, but recognize I'm just not ready for whatever healing or growth or change is?

Anna Rose: Definitely. And I always like to remind myself and I like to remind my clients that integration is so important, and integration is just a fancy word for letting shit settle in. It sometimes takes years for things to crystallize for you. And depending on what that is, I mean, it took years for my business, as it stands now to crystallize, to be seen clearly by me, to integrate into a place where I went, Oh, this is what it is. For years it was pieces of a jigsaw puzzle on a table that I was just staring at. And as time goes by, and the more work you do, the pieces slowly move into place. It doesn't happen all at once. And I still beat myself up because I still have times where I'm like, this concept is still integrating. I'm still learning this. And I still struggle with stuff. Even to this day I still need time for things to integrate, you know, I expect things to happen right away. And I'm sometimes very impatient with myself.

Michael: Yeah. I get that. I mean, even, you know, as a coach and as someone who mentors people around the world and in this position where I feel so fortunate, I still have those moments. Because guess what? We're fucking humans. This idea that one day it's just going to magically change is not a thing. It's every day, every single day, and you move up the mountain, you move up the mountain, you hit a plateau, but that's not the end. You don't reach the goal. You just have to like move a hundred yards to the left, hop back on the path and move towards what's next. 

Anna Rose: There's another mountain. 

Michael: There is, there is, and there's another integration and there's another adaptation. And there's another everything. My friend I could talk to you literally all night. But I don't know that people would listen. Only because... I know we can talk about everything forever. And so I want to, I want to ask you one question, but before I do that, can you tell everybody exactly what you do as a coach my friend, Anna Rose and where they can find you?

Anna Rose: Absolutely. I am a life coach and relationship strategist. So I love helping women figure out how to love themselves more and step into more authentic places in themselves to live like fuller and better lives. I also do a lot of business coaching, helping people pivot and move into different careers because as you heard, I had quite a dramatic pivot in my career from one to another. You can find me on the internet at Anna Rose on Instagram is my favorite platform to hang out on, you can find my website, www.annarosekern.com. I have a great actually a tool, if you're a person who needs to kind of question your own thoughts and you're having imposter syndrome issues or anything like that, that you could find on my website, if you subscribed to my email list, it'll go straight to your inbox. That Socratic questioning method tool. And I love connecting with people on Instagram. It's where I am the most that you can see me is on Instagram. So I'd love to connect with your audience there and feel free to reach out.

Michael: Beautiful. Yeah. And please do, I hope that you guys do reach out if you need relationship coaching, which is such an integral part of who we are as human beings, we all are in some kind of relationships. We all have friends, family, business partners, romance, whatever it may be, there's value there. My last question for you my friend is what does it mean to you to be unbroken?

Anna Rose: What does it mean to me to be unbroken? Being unbroken means that you have the freedom to know that you're not defined by any one thing. And you get to choose in every moment who you're going to be in the next moment. And I think your story is one of the most powerful stories of you made your own path and you chose to be unbroken. And I think for me being unbroken means freedom.

Michael: Yeah. That's beautiful. I love that, it is freedom, right? Because you get to remove yourself from what everyone else thinks that your life should be. My friend, thank you so much. Everyone, thank you for listening unbroken nation. I appreciate you so much. Please Like, subscribe, review, share this with a friend. And until next time my friends be unbroken. I'll see you.