How to Be a Leader after Trauma | with Coach Bill Courtney

Michael: Hey, what's up Unbroken Nation. Hope that you're doing well. I'm here today with coach Bill Courtney. My friend, you have an incredible life story, a movie esque life story. If you will, you have been able to transform the lives of countless children. You've been able to build a gigantic business to win an Oscar to do things like literally as I'm sitting here, like reading this out, like I got goosebumps because I'm like, I think about the possibility that people have to actually make a real impact. And your story and your background, I know this because you and I have had the pleasure of meeting before, but you didn't come from much. And it's I look at your life today, and it's I'm so inspired and honored to have you on the show. So first and foremost, thank you for being here.

Bill: Dude, thanks so much for having me. And if I ever need a publicist, I think I'll let you do it, that was the greatest introduction ever, far too kind.

Michael: No. Look, man, it's just, here's, what's interesting about that, it's just truth, it's not like I'm sitting here rattling off untruths or things that aren't real or things you haven't done. It's you've actually been able to do something really impactful and powerful with your life. What I'm curious though, is I want to jump off here so we can paint the trail as we go. Tell me about childhood. What was it like growing up for Bill?

Bill: I'm a Memphis guy, born and bred in Memphis, grew up in Memphis. I'm 55 years old and I still live in Memphis, I went to Ole Miss to college and that was the only years I never lived in Memphis, but that's only an hour south of Memphis. So who I am as a Memphis guy, the way I grew up mom and dad were married young had me, dad left the home when I was four, I had no relationship with him. In fact, he died earlier this year. I found out cause I got a phone call about it, no relationship with them. Mom was married and divorced five times. Mom's fourth husband, after finishing off a handle of us or Scotch pulled out a 38 caliber pistol and shot up the house, shot at me down a hallway. I had to dive out of a window to live through the night police showed up and mom was cowered in a corner in the attic and he was trying to get into her. And so I had that the first real fistfight ever got into was with one of mom's boyfriends, and yeah, you grow up with in that environment you're in apartments, you're, you're locked into, I guess a cycle of psychosis and trauma. And the first time I broke away from that trauma really is when I went to college and got away from it. I had two grandfathers that were good men that loved me and my mom, despite all of what was going on, she loved me and did the best she could to care for me, but didn't have any money grew up in apartments, didn't have a lot of resources and had a lot of trauma in my life, that's how I grew up.

Michael: Yeah, that's a hell of a way to grow up, man. And the hard part is, I think not only myself, but many people listening to this can recognize a lot of those similar experiences, obviously we don't live the same experiences, but I paint a picture of my childhood quite frequently on this podcast and publicly. And it's very similar mom, multiple marriages, married, super abusive stepfather, she had her own drug addict and alcoholic tendencies, grow up in the hood, it's funny, yesterday I was sharing a story with a friend. We were so poor that I literally would get clothes from the lost and found at school. And I remember one day I got this Tommy Hilfiger, this is the early nineties, I got this Tommy Hilfiger jacket, and it's one of those. Pullovers like the old NBA kind and it's red, white, and blue. It says he'll figure on the front and I'm wearing this jacket to school on this cold wintry day and this kid saw it and he was like, that's my jacket, and I remember just the sheer feel of embarrassment, of shame, of guilt, of pain from something I had no control over. And Bill, this as well as I do that, those traumas, that psychosis you mentioned that tends to carry with people forever in their spaces of doing the work and healing and overcoming, and I look at your life and I go, there's no way this guy has the life he has without doing some work in the process, how have you been able to take all of those things? Many of these things that most people would say and play victim to that would destroy their life that would take from them and yet not necessarily use them to your advantage, but not allow them to use to be used to your disadvantage.

Bill: Bro, two things you just said are something I echo constantly. And I'm going to share both stories with you to answer your question. One is you spoke about victim hood and I want to talk about that. Second, the first thing I want to tell you is I lettered in six sports in high school. I'm 55 years old and fat now and don't look like much of an athlete, but. Back in the day, I could go a little bit and my father was the starting quarterback all four years at East High School in Memphis, which back in the day was like the school, Sybil Shepherd actually graduated from that school, it was the school. He was also the point guard for the basketball team. He ran track, he actually held the 100 yard county record for the 100 yard Up until the early nineties and he went to school in the sixties. He was a dog, he was really interested in sports and back in the day, when everybody's still got a newspaper, the sports page always printed all the high school results. I was in, I let her in six sports, I was all state in all conference in a couple of sports, I know daggum good and that man knew what I was doing yet. He never once saw a single down, a single at bat, a single shot, nothing. And I'm telling you this and I'll get to the point, then you've got these other stepfathers that come into your life. And as a young strapping guy, you've got this exterior hard shell that you got to have, but inside. All of us have insecurities and especially a 15, 16 year old boy growing up trying to understand, girls and where they're going with their life and who they are, and it's an extremely formative time. And when you're growing up, this guy that's Keeping his grades up and doing all the sports and he knows his own father knows what's going on, but takes no interest in them, and there's a series of boyfriends and husbands in and out of his life, and no man takes the time to stick around at that age. You start to wonder what's wrong with you, you don't understand that they're broken people, that are causing you pain, rather you look at yourself and you start to reconcile that something must be intrinsically wrong with you, and you must have very little value that no man sees enough value in you to be willing to stick around in your life. And you carry that valuelessness with you, and oftentimes it manifests itself in, if you don't think anybody values you and you start to think you are valueless, then you engage in behavior, this destructive you engage in all kinds of things, because if you're not valued, what's to keep you from doing destructive, harmful things. And so if you look at our inner cities, and you look at the fatherlessness and you look at the trauma going on, and sometimes it's second, third generational, and you wonder why 16, 17, 18 year old kids from the hood are oftentimes engaging in destructive, horrible behavior, you might want to ask yourself. What is the environment they're growing up in? And what is the stimulus that is convincing them that their life lacks such value that there is no reason to do the right things? And I experienced that, and I know it in a very real way, and you said, you have to overcome it, I will tell you, I was 40, until I came to terms with it, I carried this into my early Mary, I've been married the same woman for 31 years, she's a saint. We had four kids in four years that are now 28, and until my wife explained to me that I was being the biggest butthole on the face of the planet, every father's day and Christmas, Thanksgiving, and that I needed to decide that I could celebrate fatherhood, not from a point of fatherlessness, but from being a father. And I started to make that transition, that trauma lasts a long time in a lot of men and a lot of men are unwilling to discuss it, or maybe not even recognize it. Fortunately I had a wife that proved to be a beautiful mirror for me, that trauma is lasting, it is dangerous and it incensed people to engage in destructive behavior that we see replicated across our country on a daily basis. The thing that really got me to start thinking properly second thing I want to tell you is I got in a fight in high school and back in high school, when you're an athlete, if you get in a fight, you don't go to the principal's office, you go to the coach's office. And I trust me, the coach's office is a hell of a lot worse than the principal's office, especially when you're like one of his guys, right? So I knew coach Spain was going to beat the ever loving hell out of me for getting out around and Fighting and carrying on. And coach Spain was a guy from a little city called Milan, little town called Milan, Tennessee, cotton farmer, father, he was a no nonsense, yes or no, sir. Guy hardcore, but he also had a massive caring heart for the kids that played for him. And so I sat down in his office expecting just to get blistered, and he looked at me, he said, why'd you get in a fight? And I said, coach, I'm just so angry all the time. And he said, I understand, and he said, I was Billy back then. He said, Billy, let me tell you something, he said, you have a reason to be angry, you're dealing with a lot of stuff. I know what you're dealing with at home and I know what's hard on you and I know you're angry. He said, but you got a choice to make bro, he said, you're old enough to make babies and you're about to be old enough to serve our country, I'm going to call you a young man at this point and young man, you have a choice to make. You can succumb to all of the trauma and dysfunction in your life, and frankly, nobody would really blame you for it because it's tough. And he said, but if you do that, understand you're going to be the very thing one day that's making you so angry right now, he said, or you can make a decision, you can decide you're going to dig your heels in the dirt and you're going to be a rock. That other people break themselves on, and he said, because you have that strength in you. So it's a choice that you need to make young man, are you going to be a victim of these circumstances and let it destroy you? And you become the very thing you detest, or are you going to dig your heels in and be a rock that those idiots break themselves on and you're going to climb above it and be better, it's really up to you.

Michael: Man, I got a little emotional for a SAP, I've recorded 700 episodes, this podcast, it's rare that I ever get emotional, but you said something that really struck me and it is so much of the environment that we grow up in is a reflection of how we think our self worth is determined, growing up with a, an abusive stepfather, I only met my real father one time on a birthday for 30 minutes I've. I had all these mentors and my coaches, right? But most of these guys were hurt too, like you would be in practice with them. It's I feel like these guys are taking out their anger on us. It'd be chaotic because like you, I played multiple sports, I played four sports when I was eligible. And when I was eligible, dude, I've got countless trophies and ribbons and awards and certificates and blah, blah, blah, and it was like, man, I'm very grateful that I had. Sports to usher me through because I don't know what I would have done otherwise now, of course, because of the decisions of my environment, I got expelled from high school three different times, one for selling drugs, one for being absentee and then once for fighting. And I remember I was 18 years old and my high school business teacher, shout out Mr. Bush, who was also the basketball coach, I didn't play basketball. I'm terrible at it. So I wrestled and Mr. Bush, he's my first period class, I go up to him one day and I say, Hey man, look, I'm gonna keep it real with you. I'm not coming to your class, this is a 7 a.m. class and I'm out, look, I'm out at night selling drugs. I'm working some part time job just trying to help keep the lights on, pay bills, my grandma's in a coma and I'm living with my little brother, and it's we're on our own at 17, 18 years old. And he comes up to me and he goes, look, did I get it? This is one of the things I think about there's wisdom and there's intelligence and there's wisdom, and Mr. Bush had wisdom because what he brought to me, he said, Hey, I get it, this dude's been coaching and teaching for 20 years, Bill, he's seen everything, he gets it, he goes, just check in with me and do homework. I did that zero times, and an entire semester, and it was interesting because he was actually, I'm going to use this terminology, he was the only teacher to ever stand up to me, like I'm a, like I'm a bolstering guy with a big personality, I'm six, four, two 20, I'm a big human with a big personality, and he goes, you're not graduating, you're not walking down the path with your friends. You're going to summer school, and Bill is the most, most important and embarrassing lesson of my entire life, I got uninvited from every graduation party, I got uninvited from every get together from the senior field trip, everything. And I had to go to summer school and in summer school, this teacher, it was the polar opposite experience. He looks at me, he goes, It's so obvious you don't want to be here, you're disrupting the class. All you're doing is flirting with girls, which these are true, and he goes, we're going to give you the diploma, get out. And he said a sentence to me that it will, it may actually be the last thing I think about before I die. He goes, we'll let the streets figure you out, and to remember that like you was my choice, it was my moment, my line in the sand, where I was like, Dude, you better do something different or your ass is going to prison, like your family members, like your community, like your friends, and fast forward, dude, my three childhood best friends have been murdered. I got family in prison for life, like literally, one of my family members has been in prison for 30 years, amongst others. And I look at that and I go, we have to make decisions today when you are leading, not only the kids you have led, but your own family, your team, your employees, your community, how much of an impact of that conversation plays a role in the man that you are today, ‘cause sometimes I think it's just that one thing that changes everything?

Bill: I would like to say the minute coach Spain said that to me, it was epiphany and I changed on the spot. It wasn't, it was an epiphany. But comments like that percolate, it takes time. And then every time an opportunity comes to either be a complete jackass or do things the right way, that voice comes back in your head, are you going to be a victim or are you going to be a rock? Are you going to be a victim or are you going to be a rock? And ultimately I chose not to be a victim. So realizing that in my own life for better or worse has equipped me when coaching kids ask a lot of questions before I make any demands, much like your business teacher, he offered you a chance to meet him halfway and you just told him, no, he didn't require of you, he gave, he still required something of you, but he didn't give you the same requirements that he gave everybody else. He was willing to meet you halfway to give you an opportunity. I think that's the best thing we can do as leaders is understand there's a story under every helmet, understand those stories, you have basic fundamental rules about showing up on time and everything else. But if you seek as a leader to serve, to be a servant leader, the only way you can do that is first you get out of your own comfort zone. You get out of your vacuum of thought and you seek to understand those that you're trying to serve and you grow to understand their fears and their goals and inhibitions, and if you set out to erase the fears and inhibitions and help to make the opportunity for the people you're trying to serve or coach or lead in your business or your children or in your family or whoever help. Those people reach goals, then you're serving as a leader, then when you ask somebody to meet you halfway, there are a whole lot more apt to do it because they see that you're actually leading in a servant's way, and then if they meet you halfway, you got a shot. So I say all of this, in that when I started coaching Manassas in inner city, it was clear we were going to have to teach character, commitment, integrity, leadership, teamwork, all of these basic fundamentals and tenets that are outlined in my book but do it in a way that from the ground up understand them. These kids, their environment and what they're coming from, which was not hard for me to understand because I identified with it well, but then once you offered a halfway point, once you offered a reasonable halfway point, then is when accountability and victimhood come in, then you can say, look, dude, I get these problems, you're going to have to overcome them. I'm going to work with you to help you overcome them, but you got to meet me halfway, and if you meet me halfway, I'll keep working on your behalf, but if you don't, I'm done because you are going to have to be accountable to something to ever elevate yourself, and you have a choice to make. Do I want to meet someone or some opportunity halfway, give it what I've got and be held accountable to it or do I want to be a victim to my circumstances? And walk from it and suffer the consequences, and I think you have to clearly articulate that's how it's going to be to the people you want to lead and stay consistent in both your service and in your accountability and remind them that that's how it's going to be more times than not, people will meet you halfway, they'll appreciate your service and they'll elevate themselves and slowly work themselves out of the victimhood of their circumstances because that victimization is real, but if they understand you see it too, and you will serve them, then oftentimes more times than not, they'll meet you halfway and you got a chance to exact some measure of positive change.

Michael: Let's go a little deeper into that, you said something that, it has been such a interesting thought that pops into my head with frequency since I first met you six weeks ago or whatever, and it's players when games coaches, when players and I think about that in terms of what I do in coaching Bill. I've coached people who have been through childhoods like mine, like yours, at this point it's thousands of people around the world and back again, and I see this really interesting thing happen for those who have the willingness to effectively go and run the play as a coach, I am on the sideline, man. I can't win the check, I'm not going to score the touchdown for you, but I'm going to be like, run this play, and if you run this play, I've seen it work time and time and time and time again, I know this play works, I've ran this play in my life. I ran this play for bill, I ran this play for Susie. I've been able to run this play on stages in front of 10, 000 people. I know this works, what breaks my heart, man, is I know that, there, this number I'm going to say didn't used to be this high, I used to say there's probably 5 percent of people who aren't going to change. And now I look at it and I can't help, but think it's probably closer to 20. And it kills me knowing that there's like all these people with so much potential, on the other side of a decision, but their self worth is so tied into the abuse, into the system, into success is the first and the 15th and getting the check successes, the rims and the car and the clothes successes, the girls and the drugs and the money successes, anything, I got the job at the warehouse and I'm not saying those things can't be, contextually. But it's I think about if you raise your standards. If you just raise your standards for you, your life can be different. How do you get when you're working with people, especially these kids, because these kids become the adults that I work with. How in the world, you break through for them because it's here you are, man. You're like, yo, I'm showing you how to do this shit, I'm telling you, I got your back, I'm supporting you, I will catch you, if you fall, you just got to do it. How the hell do we get them just to do it, man?

Bill: All right. Turkey person is coming first, I will say you're right, one of the things I say to everybody that will listen is coaches, players win games, coaches, win players. And I'm so glad you brought that up because, managers don't win business, the workers, the salespeople, those guys win business managers win, the employees kids, your children, they win their lives, you have to win them, that mantra goes everywhere, bro. And so the question is then if you've never seen a coach score a touchdown, you've never seen a coach, hit a home run, it's because players win games and coaches when players, you, I'm the CEO of an 80 million company. I haven't sold a single load of lumber in 16 years, I don't sell lumber, my salespeople sell lumber, my salespeople make the business grow, I just got to win them and get them motivated. So the question is, how do you win them? That's, I think, ultimately your question. Yes, I was taught how to win them, my first year at Manassas, we were three and three now for the listeners who haven't seen undefeated when I showed up at Manassas, their previous 10 years record was four wins and 95 losses. It's insane, garbage, slaw, terrible, and that's 17 kids on the team and the equipment was worn out, they had crappy uniforms. It was, the most abject, worst poverty stricken, disenfranchised loss of loss you could imagine, and all of that in their lives was refracted in the record on the football field loss. So I get there and midway through the season, we're three and three. Now I think three wins and three losses midway through the season is average, but when you've won four games in 10 years, you think three and three, they thought I was like a redheaded fat version of Pete Carroll or something. So everybody's like coach Bill, and we were paying for ACT prep classes and we were, we bought new uniforms because I wanted those kids at least for four hours on a Friday night to have the best equipment, the best uniform, be the best prepared so that at least for four hours on a Friday night, they were second to nobody. For four hours of their life, they didn't have to build second class. You look good, you feel good, you play good, that was my belief set and man, we were pouring into them. It was also really clear that we needed to coach a lot more than X's and O's when we showed up teamwork, character, commitment, integrity, the value of hard work, the dignity of hard work, the importance of the hands on a clock, they're not a suggestion, they're actually reality. So show up on time, all of these things, and halfway through the season, we're three and three and the whole team was really yes or no, sir, really respectful on the football field. But the minute practices or games were over, half the team was buying into the important stuff. I was talking about the stuff that serves you long after football is over the other half of the team while buying into football and yes or no, sir, on the football field, the minute football was over there back in the streets, and it's driving me crazy, they're that 20 percent you're talking about. How do you reach them? And so I went to my guy, every coach has a guy and I said, Hey man, what do I got to do to get that half the team to buy in? Like your half team, the important stuff, everybody's good on football, but all the other stuff that really matters, I can't get them to buy in, and this is the guy who had real conversations with me at the very beginning about his culture and his neighborhood and where they came from. The things I need to understand, and I knew he'd tell me what was up and he just looked at me dismissively and said, all coaches keep doing what you're doing, bro, and I'm like, no man, real talk, he said, coach, I don't want to hurt your feelings. I said, you are not going to hurt my feelings, tell me what's up. He said, all I said, I want to know why that half the team will not buy into the important stuff. Like you're half the team football's cool, but the important stuff's more important. What's up, and he says, all right, coach, they're trying to figure it out, if you're a Turkey person or not, and I'm like, I've learned a lot of vernacular and a whole lot of phrases I'd never heard before I got to Manassas. Manassas is 100 percent black and I'm white, I was big daddy snowflake, ‘cause I was the only white thing around and the movie and our relationship is not about race at all. And you'll see that if you watch the movie, but the reality is, I didn't know that when white people got rained on, they smelled like wet puppy dogs until I was told at Manassas, Oh, did I just break something up there for you, bro? You want to tell your white listeners what I just said later? That's fine. Anyway, I went to him and I'm like, and I'm like, I know he'll tell me what's up. He's coach, I don't want to hurt your feelings. I said, real talk, he said, coach, they're trying to figure out if you're a turkey person or not. And I'm like, man, what are you talking about? And he said, coach, every Thanksgiving and Christmas, people from where you live roll into our neighborhood and they give away gifts and hams and turkeys, and we take them because we ain't got none, but then they leave and we never see him again, never see him again. Makes you wonder if they're doing that because they really care about us or they're doing that to make themselves feel good. And he looked me dead in the eyes and he said, coach, what the hell are you doing here, bro? Now, if you serve in a soup kitchen or give away turkeys on Thanksgiving or Christmas, don't misunderstand, that's a beautiful thing, the question is what's your motive? What's your motive? Are you doing that? Because when you go back to your neighborhoods and everybody slaps you on the back and says, man, that's wonderful. What you did for all those poor little black kids down there at Manassas, are you doing that because of the way it makes you look and feel? Or are you doing that humbly and quietly, simply for the edification of people who are not as fortunate as you? Same question in business, why are you trying to raise yourself up to be a manager? Is it because you want the quarter office and the raise? Nothing wrong with being exceptional and getting a quarter office and the raise, but are you doing it only for you, or also to help exalt the people that are helping you be successful? And it pissed me off, dude. I'm like, I'm here every day, ACT prep classes, I'm spending my money. I'm spending my time away from my kids, I'm like pissed because if you think I'm a turkey person with all I'm giving in here, man, I'm going to tell you something, you can't help these people. Folks, this 20%, you can't help these folks if they think I'm a turkey person. And then I started listening to myself and anybody, anytime, anybody asked me about my time at Manassas is like bill the commercial appeal, the daily newspaper in Memphis had me on the front page and all the sports session, but the whole front page said by nine, a picture of me and the title was Manassas miracle. People walk up and said, Matt Manassas three and three. How's that working? Man, we working them hard, we're coaching them up, what else? I got them taking ACT prep classes, what else? I got them new uniforms, what else? I got them new equipment, what else? I got them winning games. What else? I got them doing homework, anytime anybody asked me anything about Manassas, I was all too pleased to tell them all that I was doing. Meanwhile, I had kids getting called uncle Tom's and sellouts, that white coach ain't got none for you, bro, I had kids doing homework and called chumps. Homework, man, coach makes me do homework, man, you're a chump, man, he's selling you out, you know he is. I had kids that were getting beat out of gangs because my only rule was the only colors you could wear are blue and gold, Manassas colors meaning you couldn't wear red and blue and black and GDs and crypts and all that, you can't wear that. So some of these kids had to get beat out of gangs in order to play, I learned that kids sleep in tubs in the hood because in the hood the houses are old, the tubs are cast iron, and the reason you lay a baby in the tub at night is because if there is a dry bow outside, the baby survives. I had kids doing all kinds of things outside of their reality to be part of one positive thing in their life, and anytime anybody asked me anything about it, I told him everything I was doing because it did make me feel good. See, my motive was off, so what I started to do is anytime he asked. People ask me, I'm going to ask this. I told him all this stuff, I just told you about the amazing steps, these kids were taken, I took a backseat because I found out the greatest measure of the success of the leaders, the actions of the followers and the actions of my followers was poor, which meant I had a problem, I just needed to see it. And the greatest leaders of our time always give credit to the followers when things go well, and take the heat when things go wrong. I was taking the credit when things go well, I started giving the credit to the kids, I started pointing out all the things they were doing, I stepped back and let them have the limelight. And in doing so that team grew to 75 players and went to 18 wins and two losses, and I ended up in a movie that wins an Academy award because the payoff is this. As a leader, if you're motivated by the right things and you give credit to the followers, when it goes well, the payoff is this, it comes back to you in spades, bro, and I'm living proof of it. So how do you reset 20%? Don't be a turkey person, be motivated by their exaltation, be consistent, don't give up on them and show them that you're there to serve them, not to be served by them, and you have the best chance to reach them.

Michael: Yeah, I think that's not only a great analogy and parable for leadership on the field and in business, but in the home also,

Bill: No doubt.

Michael: And you see so many of these, it drives me now. I don't have kids yet, Bill, but it drives me absolutely crazy, when I see some of the children's schedules of just the kids in the world right now.

Bill: While the pet the parents keep those schedules and then helicopter over them the whole time.

Michael: That's exactly right, and it's yeah, it makes no sense to me. And it's like your kids, my, my thought and opinion of it is that your kids should follow suit. They should, you should be leading the home, not the children, and what's really interesting about that is there, there's this need that we have. For love, for admiration, for care and support from both our family members, our friends, our community, but for most people, they're children. And I'm going to put on my parent hat, not being one, but I see this happen frequently where it's we see these people bend. To the needs of others and putting themselves secondary in the hopes that the backside of that decision will be love, will be support, will be compassion and care, how important is it, and especially due to this environment, how I grew up, my, my school, Northwest High School, the year I graduated was on Harris Polls list of what was called a dropout factory, one of the worst. High schools in America, pregnancy rate was something like 24%, graduation rate from freshman year to senior year was something like 18%, the school has now been closed, defunded, I literally saw kids get murdered outside the front of the school, we had real cops with real guns, like you get this because you were in that environment in Manassas, I get it, cause I grew up like that, many people listening to this show grew up like that, and then what happens is we become adults, and we find ourselves breaking our boundaries, breaking our moral character, breaking our integrity, breaking our commitments in the hope that someone else will fill us up, will give us love, will give us support, will give us the thing that we were denied in childhood. Because as adults, we seek the thing we did not have, people ask me all the time, why are you a public speaker? I'm like, I was invisible as a kid, I love being in front of 10, 000 people, but I know that about myself. And I think the cornerstone of life and success is know thyself and be honest about it. So how do you come from these environments where you're invisible, you're hurt, you're lost everything. All we hear about in society right now in the mental health space is boundaries is control is self care is love, and yet all we see, is people bending who they are to get admiration and love from others, especially in this pursuit that you've created. How is it that we as individuals can have integrity, but also have love, can have boundaries, but also have community, can have everything that we need to be who we are, but also serve.

Bill: I used to tell my children every single day, I don't care if you like me, I care if you respect me, and the reason is you will respect, you will love what you respect, eventually. I adore my children, they are, and this is not a, this is a very purposeful adjective, there are delicious, I savor them, they're the most important thing in my life besides my wife, I would go to the wall for my children and I love them too much to allow them to be assholes. So growing up, I was not the cool dad, I was the hard dad. Now, fair, but hard, and I told them their whole lives, you will respect me, you don't have to like me. But you respect me and that respect eventually as their minds matured and grew older, they grew to love me deeply because they do respect my character, my commitment, my consistency, I think that also translates to self respect, if you can't respect yourself, you can't love yourself and you will never respect yourself because when it's you and you in the mirror and only you know who you are, you know what you're doing right and doing wrong, and if you continue to be a victim of your circumstance and continue to do things that are destructive, not right to other people, not right to yourself, you will not have self respect, and if you do not have self respect, you will not have self love. So if you can't respect first, you will never find the love that you need to find of yourself. And if you can't love yourself, don't expect anybody else to love you. It all starts with respect, it all starts with baking a foundation of character, commitment, integrity, doing what you say you're going to do and being a solid human being. So when you look in the mirror every morning, you can say, I'm a man of my word, I do what I say I'm going to do, I'm going to be respectful to other people, even if they aren't respectful to me, I may disagree with what you have to say, but I will defend with my life, you're right to say it, I am going to be civil, I'm going to have real conversations, about stuff that matters, but I'm going to do it in a nonthreatening way. I am going to be that person, and when I look in the mirror, that's someone I can respect and I can respect that person. I can love that person, and if I can respect me and I can love me and I'm worthy of that, then other people will see those tenants and fundamentals in me and they will respect me and they will grow to love me too. It does not work by bending, you lose respect and you lose love, it works by getting that respect. By digging your heels in and being a rock against the prevailing preconceived societal notions that we got to be, no, be who you're supposed to be. Have self respect, love yourself, admit that to everybody around you, people will respect you and they will love you. I don't have to agree with you, but I can sure as hell respect you. I have, I am a white Southern Christian guy who's probably, politically, I'm very centered, frankly, I'm fiscally right and socially left. So just call me centered, I voted for Republicans and Democrats in my life, one of my best friends in this world is in LA is a Jewish gay man married to his husband who have surrogated two children from some, a lady in Seattle who is the most progressive person I know, but you know what, I can have the most real conversations with that guy about things that we disagree about, but we do it in a civil, non threatening way, this man has built a business, he's cared for his children, he's very active in his synagogue, I have so much respect for that guy because the way he carries himself and the tenants he employs with in his life, that I love him, even though he is a polar opposite of me and we agree on almost nothing except that we respect one another and based on that respect we can love one another. Now, what would happen in our country if we all just could respect one another? What would happen to all this division if we could just respect one another and that respect starts with? Earning it by the way we carry ourselves. So I would say the bending is the chipping away at our culture.

Michael: I would agree. And there's, I think there's three steps that you could take to get to respect. And I think I figured this out because at 25, I had wasted a million dollars, I was 350 pounds smoking two packs a day, drinking myself to sleep, 50 grand in debt, cheating on my girlfriend, my little brother says, never talk to me again, you're not my brother, and my car got repossessed, I had a beautiful 2004 Cadillac CTS. It was like bad boys too, it was like dream car, I bought that car at 20 years old, nobody does that.

Bill: Had* is the operative word.

Michael: No, it was real funny when they had it on the tow truck, and it's I look at that and I go at 25, I had zero respect for myself heading into 40. I have enough that I can build an empire on it, and I think there was three things that have been able to allow me to do that, and I try to instill this in people. One, you show up, that's like step one, like you just got to get your ass in the room, man. Number two is you be honest, we're taught to lie. It's insane to me, like it does not serve you. And then three is you just execute, and you know as well as I do, like even the best coaches in the world, we think we have the game plan, and you're going to make mistakes, you're going to screw up. But, it's about having that goldfish memory to some extent, really. And in that memory, I think it's like, can you forgive yourself? Can you let go? Can you pick up where you are and not have a defeated attitude? Because, this as well as I do, man, like I, dude, I screw up all the time and it's not intentional, I'm not, it's not like when I was 25 and I'm going around the world, like not thinking about my actions. Today, it's I really put a lot of thought in this, it didn't work. I messed up, the relationship didn't work, the business didn't work, the friendship didn't work, the routine didn't work. Okay, cool, let's reset, recycle, get back in here, and then it's about the rinse and repeat.

Bill: I want to say something about what you just said. ‘Cause it's so true, if you have a proper foundation, built on those tenants that we're talking about. When you go out to the fringe and you screw up, you don't fall all the way to the basement, you just fall back to the foundation, which means you can go back, you're right, we make mistakes things, but if we build the right foundation around the right tenants in our life, of respect and character and all of the things we're talking about when you do mess up, it's not a, it's not a 24 drop, it's just a story because you fall back to your basis, and once you have that basis that gives you the temerity to go out and try other things and be creative and give it shots, but you're always falling down to a place that, you can really quickly build back from, but you can't do that unless you have those tenants in that respect, and I think that's a difference in now in your life, and when you were 20, you didn't have that basis. So when all this stuff went away, you probably went in a hole that you had to dig out of now, when you make a mistake. Yeah, now, when you make a mistake, you're not, so bump, it's not that big a deal, it's not life shattering.

Michael: Yeah, at 26, I was for sure at rock bottom, like the only way it got lower is if I killed somebody, and I mean that like it was a dark, and I was on that path for sure, I look at that and then it's but you have to earn every inch.

You really, truly do, you have to earn every inch and it's do the thing you said you were going to do, stop lying and just try, and if you do that, man, oh my God, your life is going to be so different. Bill, dude, this conversation has been amazing. I want to have you back, we need to go deeper, but with that said, my friend, before I ask you my last question, please tell everyone where they can find you, learn about the new podcast and discover more about what you've been able to accomplish.

Bill: Well, you can find me at coachbillcourtney.com and book and movies and stuff there, but most recently, most currently, and really to me, most importantly three months ago, we released An Army Of Normal Folks, the podcast has been as high as number 10 in the country on Apple. I'm so humbled by the response to it, and we're trying to grow this thing, and in an elevator pitch, it is a podcast where we go out and we're not interviewing a listers, we're not, we're interviewing average, normal people who in their daily lives are doing extraordinary things in their communities, and we're telling these stories, stories you don't know of thousands of people who you need to know and they're entertaining and they're well produced and they should make you laugh and cry and all of that and interesting and redemptive but most importantly we want them to be inspiring because we're trying to grow this community this army of normal folks inspired by one another just seeing small areas of need in their community and filling them and we're celebrating those stories, growing this base, every guest shares their personal contact information. So if you listen long enough, you'll probably hear something that somebody's done that you think I have that skill set and I'm passionate about that, their story is a blueprint of how to get involved in the way they did, and you have the contact information to call and have a mentor to help you do it in your community. So we're trying to build this army of normal folks, working in and around the country that we can celebrate one another and hopefully continue to fix the it. Normalfolks.us, you can email me at bill@normalfolks.us and, reach out, listen and you can get it on iHeart, Spotify, Apple, wherever you listen to podcasts, and I just hope your listenership will give it a shot and I bet they'll be inspired and really what they hear.

Michael: Yeah. And I'm going to encourage them to go check that out guys of course, go over to thinkunbrokenpodcast.com check, the show notes for this episode and as well as the newsletter where we will have all this information and more. Bill, my friend, my last question for you, what does it mean to you to be unbroken?

Bill: You and I are cut so much from the same cloth, the new V. title is undefeated, and I tell everybody all the time that has nothing to do with wins and losses on a football field, it's about not being defeated by your circumstances, the very circumstances you and I have talked about this entire podcast. What it means to be unbroken is to be that rock, is to not be a victim of whatever, everybody on this planet suffers some form of difficulty and trauma in their life, and it's making the decision to be the rock and not the victim and not allowing the difficulties of life to break you. But rather be unbroken, not because life's perfect, but despite life's challenges, undefeated, unbroken is basically talking the same language.

Michael: Brilliantly said my friend. Thank you so much for being here. Unbroken Nations, thank you so much for listening, please like subscribe, comment, share, tell a friend, and remember every time you share this episode, you're helping other people heal, transform their trauma to triumph, and to become the hero of their own story.

And Until Next Time,

My Friends, Be Unbroken,

I'll See You.