How to Build a Relationship After Trauma | with John Trone

Michael: John Trone, my friend, welcome to think I'm broken podcast, man. I've been looking forward to having this conversation with you. I had the privilege of getting to see this viral clip of you and your wife talking about your relationship. And I went a little bit deep because, I'm a guy in the world trying to better understand myself as a man in dating and relationships and love and all of these things and just your honesty, your vulnerability the way that you communicate and what you've been able to build in your podcast with your wife. One dope couple podcasts. I was like, man, I got to talk to John today. So brother, thank you so much for being here.

John: Man. Thank you so much for having me, brother. I'm truly honored to be here and thank you for even thinking of me, man. Even allow me to be a part of, everything to build in here.

Michael: Yeah, man, no doubt. You know what it is I want to have conversations with people who are doing something of value in the world. And, before you and I started recording, we were talking about, especially from the perspective of being a man there's so many guys who are afraid to say, I love my wife. And it's you're out here, like screaming it from the rooftops. And I think that's, I think it's so respectable and I'd love to know a little bit starting off, obviously we'll talk about you and the podcast, but I'd love to know a little bit about John, like what was life like growing up and what has led you down the path you are on today?

John: Oh brother. Originally from Birmingham, Alabama, actually born in Tuscaloosa, but I grew up in Birmingham, Alabama, which is pretty much where I spent the majority of my childhood. I'm the youngest of six man and single parent household exposed to a lot brother. So a lot of abuse, man, a lot of addiction, a lot of tough stuff, man, because honestly, I'm from the hood really just being transparent. Growing up in the projects and things like that. And more than I said, every nine again, man, but really like my sister raised me, my mom was there, but my sister, she really was the one that made sure that I was always taken care of. Went to school, man, one of the best in the world. I really don't perform well in the classes that the teachers that I like ended up around 16 or so deciding that I was going to start pursuing the army, ended up taking the as well. Really, man, only because I had to, because I was in student leadership. I took the ASVAB. Recruiters were coming after me. And next thing I end up in the army and I tried to go to college, man, but it was not in the books for me. Like it just, it wasn't even in the cards. I didn't even finish the test. And ended up going into the army, man, when I was 17 years old, met my amazing wife, man, really months after I joined the army, me and her, we were together for two and a half years before we got married. Had a pretty amazing career, man. Got to travel around a lot. Went to combat one time in Afghanistan and married my wife at 21. After that, man, it really just my body took a toll on me over time. I had been exposed to a lot of different things, man from active shooter situations, man, to a lot of, really serious situations, dealing with my time and career in the army. And then from there, bro, my body started to really deteriorate immensely, like I started to just fall apart at some point to the point where they ended up saying that I had to get out. So I was medically retired after nine years after that, man, the life really fell apart. Almost went bankrupt coming out of the army because COVID happened. So man, went from, really being stable and supporting my family to everything falling apart. And my wife, man, she held me down and yeah, man I'm so grateful to have had her through all of those times. Started a couple of different businesses here and that man in the financial services industry and really just started, going back on that journey and really discovering who I was all over again and really rebuilding myself because that took a huge shot on my confidence because all I had known was stability. Throughout my time in the military and just being that leader that I thought I was supposed to be for my family and then when that happened, I lost myself because I never really knew who Trone was outside of the military. So I had to create a new identity for myself, which was way more difficult than I thought, because so much happened immediately after I got out with COVID and all of the things happening, man. Ended up, being able to get myself through a lot of those things, man, and turning my situation around for my family. And I ended up not having to file bankruptcy, thank God. Started a couple of businesses, man, to be able to grow out of that. And then now, man, up until a point to where I think about 2022 is when we started our podcast. Got into doing that man really just sharing a lot about who we were as a couple and talking about love and in our relationship because we didn't see much of it out there. That really started doing well until we end up catching a little bit of heat for that. So that really caused a pretty big shift, in, in our mindsets and in our lives as well. And from there, really just kept building on it, man, and just building my own brand and building the podcast and the platform around that. And just trying to be a bigger, louder voice for husbands and meaningful relationships and advocating for marriage and encouraging people, to be more open, honest, man, and real, and just being willing to accept the beauty of what love and marriage and commitment is in its fullness, despite what social media would like for you to say, or like for you to know, so to say.

Michael: Unbelievably powerful. Obviously a multitude of places we can go in on this. But one of the things that you said that really hit home for me is that idea of what social media is telling us right now? Because all you hear. And maybe this is just my algorithm, right? All you hear is how men have to be a certain way, women have to be a certain way. We create all these falsified expectations where we have put so much pressure on each other, where it's like, what in the world are we doing now? Where two people can't be humans together, where you can't make mistakes, where you can't go through struggles. The fact that you said your wife held you down in that time, like that's such a powerful statement because on social, they'll be like, leave him. You know what I mean? It's leave your guy the second there's a problem. And I was having conversation with someone who's very close to me. And I said, I look at dating and relationships like this and not to necessarily use this analogy in terms of your background, but it made sense to me. And I was like, I think that life is war. And what I mean by that is that you're in these constant battles. Battles. There's always the next thing in front of you. It's not going to just be COVID or the stock market crash or nine 11 or any are losing friends or almost finding bankruptcy. It's bro, the next thing is coming. And in order to go through war, you need to be a part of a squad. You need to have your friends. You need to have your family, that stuff all has to be squared away. But most importantly, you need to have that partner, that husband or wife, that boyfriend or girlfriend, that person who has your back. And we live in such an insane society, dude, it's fucking crazy to me, John, where I see these couples on social. Arguing about nothing, breaking up over nothing, and people saying, Oh, John lost his job, things got hard after the military, almost filed bankruptcy. Girl, you should leave him. Go find you a real man. And I'm like, what are we doing to ourselves here? Where have we gone wrong in social? Because for you to stick out the way you stick, stuck out to me, because I was like, John is speaking truth here. Obviously there's a huge problem in the narrative being spun about love and relationship and commitment and marriage and coupledom. And I'm just wondering, where do you think we went wrong here that these concepts that we're seeing today, and in my opinion, obviously, but in my opinion, there's just so wrong.

John: I got a lot on that, honestly. Cause I've actually spent quite a bit of time thinking about it. And the unfortunate part is now we've gotten to a point to where, you know, it used to be called social networking, and now it's social media. And when you think about media, man, media has always had an agenda to push a message, regardless of what that message might be. And what I come to realize, man, is that when you have social media to grow to a point where it's able to do what it's doing now, and so many people have a voice, even though there are a lot of people who may want to push good and positive messages and be vulnerable and transparent, there's also a lot of hurt people. And there's a lot of people who've been through a lot of situations and things like that, that have had a drastic and huge impact on their lives and their mindsets and the things that they've gone through. And unfortunately, sometimes people get to a point where they're so verbal and vocal about the things that hurt them, and they're just sharing it, thinking that they're being vulnerable and transparent. And the sad part is, even if they are, it's a very familiar, it's a very familiar wound that a lot of people can relate to, but not necessarily in a positive sense to where when they start to speak these things. It becomes this dominating myth because unfortunately, not all relationships work out. And so when you hear these messages, people putting out all of this crap about, how marriage doesn't benefit men and all of this crap and men and women, just colliding and it's because so many people have been hurt and now we're in a world where we're so exposed to so much lifestyle stuff and content, whatever the case may be, and everybody wants to be like the things that they're seeing and they're looking at other people that they admire for whatever reasons that they have. And they think that just because they see somebody at another level, or whatever the case may be, or their struggles are a certain way that they are, that validates their hurt, that validates what they've gone through and what they, it validates, them feeling the way that they do and people will accept that stuff is true and they never think to double check it or to battle it or to go against whatever that thought process is. And when you get so many people saying the same thing, you start to justify it as if it's logical, if it's right. And what I've grown to realize, man, is that the vast majority of people in any field. usually represent the lowest performance in that area, regardless of what it is. It could be marriage, relationships, it could be business, whatever the case may be usually the larger majority in that space is a representation of the lowest performance. And a lot of people can relate to being hurt in some shape, form or fashion. And so it's easy to cling on to that pain. And so many people, again, they, people aren't attracted to positivity like that. And negativity is polarizing, it grabs your attention, and when it's easy to have our attentions grabbed in such a way, it's only natural for those messages to be as big and loud as they are, and now it's just, it's fuel to the fire with so many people who have voices to speak down on.

Michael: Very poetically said, man, and you're spot on. And I think, it's so funny. I've seen this on my own social media as someone who's been dating over the last couple of years. And just the old, they own joy that I get out of it. Like I'll post something silly about a date, never anything negative, or if I had a bad date or it, but just funny stuff, right? Even recently I said whoever can find me a wife, I have a 15,000 bonus for signing, right? I wrote, and that blows up and there's. A hundred comments and shares and everything. And I'm like, this is the way you change your life. And this is how you actually move about the world, and it's like crickets. And so on one hand you have this entertainment capsule that exists in social. And then if I were to say, and this is just the theoretical, I've never done this before, but I guarantee you, if I said I'm overdating, cause women are terrible and blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. Dude, it'd get, it'd go viral. And you just hit it on the head. It's so negative. So as a couple who is putting this content into the world and also consuming it, cause I'm sure like me, you do. And everyone does because more people watch social media than they do anything else. How do you guys protect your relationship from all of this negative brainwashing that's going down?

John: Man, this might actually trip you out. I actually didn't even know that there was a war between men and women and relationships and stuff like that. I had no clue until we started creating content. I didn't even know that this problem existed. I had no clue. And so when we first started, doing our podcast, the only reason we started was because we had a goal for ourselves to where we wanted to get better at communicating. We wanted to be able to have a creative way to do that, and we figured that we would just, get a couple of questions. We asked some people that we knew that were close to us or whatever. And we just asked, we answered the questions of people, who were asking us. And we just, was having fun with it. Just talking about our marriage and things that we thought about stuff or whatever, and that's what it started as. And we didn't even really think about it from a performance standpoint, a business, like our first video was a trash, like we didn't have any intent for it at all. It wasn't until I think maybe three or so odd months into us creating, my wife, she had a clip that went viral for us so to say, it got like over a million views or whatever. People took her words completely out of context, making up all of this stuff. We was getting all of this backlash. It was a lot of people that, was rocking with what we said. Some people that wasn't different things like that. And it just, at that point, we started like really looking into seeing what was going on that online. And that's when we discovered that, oh my God, this is actually a thing. Like people are really out here, in full on debates about the value of marriage or the value of meaningful relationships and high value, this stuff and all of that, like it was brand new to us, and so that was polarizing us because to us, like marriage is made sense, and we're young, but we've been married since we were 21 back in 2013, but we had been so focused on our own, our own marriage that we never, I never looked for relationship stuff online, you know what I mean? And so when we started really actually trying to get really more serious about this thing, it shocked us and it put us in a position where we actually took a step back for six months to work on ourselves, like working on our mindset. Being able to handle the trolls, being able to handle the people in the backlash. Because even though we were getting a lot of praise and things of that nature as well, we had never been verbally attacked at such a rate when you got content that's going all over the place and people taking your message and twisting your words and things like that. So, we had never been exposed to that. And now we just grown to a point now to where we just. We really see the humanness in people and we understand man that a lot of people are hurt and it's easy at this point in time to see that and realize a man that really on a not so deep level, the algorithm man is really just a reflection of our subconscious mind. The things that already got our attention anyway, and is reinforcing feelings that we already have anyway. And we're not looking for anything different to be able to counteract the thoughts that we already have and give us the positive side of what we actually desire. And so we become our own worst enemy by overly consuming things that confirm Feelings that we don't want. And that's what a lot of people are.

Michael: Yeah. So much of it is confirmation bias, right? You go and you look for it, you will find it. And I think it's one of those things that's so difficult because as you are navigating this world, I think what's in front of you, cause even I did, I get backlash. Like I'm sitting here trying to help people heal from childhood trauma, to love themselves and to become the hero of their own story. And people all the time send me, I get the craziest DMS. I get, so I relate to it. And for me, I just turn it off and I, you just hit it on the head. I go, these people are hurt. And it's interesting because you want to lead with love, but sometimes you got to lead with uppercut, you know what I mean? And so I think about this a lot. And so much of it is, how do you compartmentalize that? How do you not get distracted in your own relationships? Because any time that you're looking at anything on social media, you do have to take into consideration, there's a level of curation to it. There's a level of which, because you watched one video, you see all these other videos or the other day I was having a conversation with someone about glasses, lens cleaners. And the next thing, I've dude, I've never Googled this in my life. The next thing, all the videos on my Instagram are how to clean your glasses, right? And it's, so it's you got to know these things are happening, that it's impacting you. And even at a subconscious level have you guys put parameters into the relationship about like, how do you discuss what on social, or maybe if you're noticing each other being impacted by the content you're consuming. I have the strangest feelings that more relationships are ending because of social media than relationships becoming more bonded.

John: Yeah, man, what's interesting is that so many people, they don't see, man, that relationships and the way that you manage them, it's the same way you do anything else that's important to you. The same level of intention that it takes to be in a marriage or in a relationship. It's the same level of intention that it takes to do something like podcasting or to run a business or to be able to maintain, a high level or a decent job and be good at it. Anything you want to be good at, it requires that level of focus and intention. It's just that our lane is marriage. You know what I mean? It doesn't take, it's not anything different. It's just that what happens is. We like to pick and choose where we like to actually apply the principles to take, for example, right? Like me and my wife, we've, we're so focused on what we have in our marriage, and fortunately enough, before we started it, we were already so rooted in what we have. You can't, there's nothing you could do to tell us otherwise that marriage just isn't dope. You know what I mean? Because we built this thing from scratch when we already had people telling us that we shouldn't get married young. We already had people telling us that we shouldn't get married while we were in the military, and we were getting that in real life. There was no online backlash at the time. So, we had already had the opportunity to overcome naysayers, and we've been a lot of the times, the ones that other people that we've encountered through, over the years. And we've been a lot of the times, the ones that other people that we've encountered through, over the years. Who they've confided in outside of their marriage. And we were way younger than them. So now coming over here and seeing people talk online, it's you don't have the experience that we have. And not to mention that a lot of times, man, we've been in this thing long enough now to know that even a lot of people that are married, aren't married with intention. They just taking up each other's space. So, we've seen marriages, man, with people who they're together in their court, but they're not romantic. They're not intimate. They're not very intentional. They're just, they've created a pattern and they're sticking to the pattern. But we've also seen people, man, who, a year in our head over hips for each other. And you could see the intentionality in it. You could see the transformation in the depth of what they have. And my wife and I had a lot of that early on. So, it's have you seen like those people, they're in business for 20 years, but yet they still haven't broke a certain threshold in their income or whatever, but they got all this experience. But then you see a kid come out and he's 22 years old and he a million already, right? But he's learned something. He, there's some principles of something that he's learned and applied at a faster rate to progress faster, even though this other guy may be a, entrepreneur business on whatever the case may be. But he's been stagnant for 20 years, he hasn't grown. But when you come over here and you have that substance, man, you have that level of depth in what you're doing and you're being intentional and really apply yourself. You can jump light years in front of or ahead of other people who don't apply that same effort. So when we get backlash and things of that nature, whatever, man, like we don't really have to talk about it cause we solid on this, but I ain't gonna lie, man. The worst thing is done to us is it's made us disconnect from people, and that's had a negative impact on us because we social people like, we love people like we like having close relationships, connecting with people, having good friends and things like that, but it makes us have this mindset towards people where it's I'm like, like sad for you or now I'm questioning your intent or do you have a certain mindset? It makes us a little bit more hesitant to let people in knowing that these are such common mindsets. And it hasn't had any negative impact on us personally inside of our marriage. But it's made us more hesitant about letting people in at times. Now we don't deal with that as much, but it, that was probably the worst of it. So it really made us like, take a step back from dealing with people.

Michael: Yeah. And that happens all the time. I have been a proponent for a long time of keeping what's in the relationship in the relationship and not talking about it with people because like your friends, your family, your homies, like they got your best interest in mind. Like they do, but they're not in the relationship. And I think, and this is just my opinion, which is the irony of having this conversation. I don't think you should take relationship advice from anyone, except from the person you're in the relationship with. But that's a communication issue and we've been taught to outsource our communication, which John, the reason I can speak to this is because without question, I know that a relationship that I had failed entirely because we were not communicating. Because we were not talking because we were not doing the thing. Now, this was years and years ago. And I've been single for a long time, but the thing that I have come back to is, man, if I would have had the idea to sit down and have a podcast with that woman, who knows what would have happened. And even if it never saw the light of day, which I don't know that necessarily has to, it's the thing is intention, communication, clarity, understanding, and that's the thing that I think people miss out on constantly. And even now when I look at dating, I'm so intentional about it, right? And obviously, maybe I'll meet somebody in person, maybe I'll meet them online, whatever. But I always have intention the same reason I make the joke of I'm looking for my wife and somebody's going to get a 15,000 bonus is because that's what I'm putting into the universe because intention with clarity is everything in life. And if you don't have that, I always tell people a ship with no compass will land on any island. And I believe that applies to relationships, to career, to health, to money. And we get so lost in the need for that to happen. When you talk about intention, and obviously you had to fight some waves of people being like, dude, you're a kid. Don't get married. You guys are crazy. Don't do this. Don't do that. That's a prime example of what I mean. Why in the world are we taking other people's advice about the thing that we know the truth. And of course, I'm not saying that you guys probably didn't ask for some leadership and some guidance along the way, but I would have to imagine you were steadfast in your decision. And I think the thing that happens is people, they let the boat rocks a little bit and they want to get off. The reason that I had asked you to come and be on the show is because I saw this clip of yours, and it was you two sitting down, and you said something that I thought, (A) was incredibly courageous, but (B) was filled with strength, and even though it was vulnerable, it felt like all of the above, because you said there were periods of time in this relationship, and I'll paraphrase because I don't remember exactly what you said, but you said there were times in the relationship you felt so broken, and as a man, as the person that you are as a husband, and yet she just kept encouraging you. She kept having you down. She had your back. Do you talk about that?

John: Absolutely, man. I'll give you the context that's not in that video. When I met my wife, man, I was, we were nothing at this time, we were barely getting to know each other. I was coming out of a really dark space. Like I had, not too long ago, joined the military, got to my first unit at Fort Hood and it was my first time, really being away from, home and things of that nature. And I lost myself, man. I was doing so much ridiculous stuff, man, from, drinking and partying and doing all type of crazy stuff or whatever. Thank God I didn't get a DUI, nothing like that or whatever, but I had been through so much, man. And like right before I met her, I had went through this moment where I was just done. I didn't know myself anymore, man. My sister who basically raised me, it was like, she had to take a step back from me because she didn't know who I had become anymore. My mom was looking at me sideways and things like that, man. And I didn't know who I was. I was just trying to be something, and in the process of me doing that just lost myself. One of my closest friends at the time, he moved to another unit and I was by myself and I was just in this hole, man. And I ended up, tuck myself away in my bedroom, which is like a dorm, for those that don't know. And I just stayed in a man for two months. And the day that I decided to come out was the day that one of my boys pulled me out, trying to pull me out of my slump. It's the day that I met my wife, or the woman that will one day end up becoming my wife. And so, I was sharing all of this stuff, man, about me being broken and insecure and things like that. Quite honestly, man, she didn't even know most of this stuff. Like she didn't know that I was dealing with a lot of these things at the level that I was because we had barely known each other, but it wasn't until a few months later to where she really started to see some of the insecurities, and she started to really be able to see that I was battling with my own insecurities, just not knowing you. She actually was really interested in me, not knowing if what we had was actually real. And if, somebody else had attention and all of these other things, just making up stuff in my mind. And it wasn't until she had a God mom, somebody in the military was really looking out for. And she came to her one day where she came to me one day and she told me, she was like, Trone, you're going to mess around and lose that girl. If you don't, how do you lend securities? So she told me that. And then one day my mother in law who didn't like me at first for a lot of reasons, we ended up becoming very close and she told me some of those same things. And I knew that I had that problem, but for whatever reason, man, like she just, she kept allowing me to work on it because even though. I was dealing with a lot of those things, man, from trust issues to self-sabotaging, man, to my toxic traits, man, from drinking too much and all of this crap, she still saw so much in me that I didn't see in myself. And she kept reinforcing that and that made me want to be better, which is why I knew I needed her. So, when she criticized certain things that gave me feedback, I never resisted it because I knew it was true. And she was so structured and stern and like powerful as she was, and I respected everything that she shared with me at such a level to where it's not like she would say something to me and I just be like, all right, whatever, I'm gonna go do my own thing. And I would actively try to fix it or work on it, and I was getting better, and she saw that over time, and that's why she was still there, she saw so much more of me than I saw of myself, and she constantly made it a point to let me know that. And over time, man, that, that allowed us to end up getting to a point, to where here we are 10 plus years married, so she really did, man. She poured everything into me, but she also did not let up, man. She was stern on her standards and she wasn't flexing for nobody, not even me. And I had to rise to the occasion.

Michael: I love that. I am such a proponent of raise your standards. And I think that if you want anything in life, health, wealth, or relationship, or otherwise, you have to raise your standards. You said something that I think is so important is, we keep these insecurities, especially as men, right? I'm not afraid to talk about this, right? We keep these insecurities as men, we hide the truth. Anyone who's paying attention in any capacity would look at John's life and say, Oh yeah, you were raised by your sister, predominantly six kids in a house. Things with your mother. Obviously, you haven't mentioned your father. I don't know what that's but for me, it was like, I grew up in the hood. I was homeless, most of my childhood, I never met my real father. Just crazy abuse, drugs, alcohol, got kicked out of high school for drugs, for fighting multiple times. I had an amazing score on the ASVAB because I was going to go the military route because that's what happens where you're from, where I'm from. And I had asthma, so I couldn't pass MEPS. And so all these things, we have these similarities. And as we're talking here, John, which I think is really interesting. And when I look at some of the relationships that I had, dude, I was so terrified of vulnerability. To tell the truth to a woman to be like, yeah, I didn't have the greatest childhood. It made me who I was. I never met my dad. My mom was a crazy drug addict. Like my sister partially raised me for a period of time. That to me felt not like vulnerability, but instead like weakness. And luckily, I had a moment happen in which the woman that I was with, and this is Gosh, 14 years ago. Now it's a very long time ago. She saw something in me like what your wife saw in you, but the difference between you and I, John, is that instead of me leaning into it, I ran from it. And I think that so many guys run from it. It, dude, it was so ingrained in me. I was like, you're a bitch if you talk about this, you're weak if you cry. And now it's bro, I cry when the right movie comes on, and I'm not afraid of the feelings and the emotions that step into it.

John: On that same point, man, what's so interesting about that, and I apologize for interrupting.

Michael: No. Please.

John: I hear that so much man from so many different guys having all of those ways of thinking. And my problem man was like, I didn't have any I didn't have anything. So like from the concept of bottling up emotions and stuff like that, man, and not being vulnerable. Cause I think, a lot of guys, they, they struggle with that, being able to open yourself up or whatever the case. And I just didn't I didn't feel worthy. You know what I mean? I didn't feel like, who cares? You know what I mean? And that is like my, I don't know, man, what to call like Achilles heel, man, like I couldn't shake that. I just didn't feel like it mattered at all. And yeah, it's I didn't have any, like my dad, he wasn't there. And when I say the youngest of six, man, my next older sibling is eight years older than me, which is the sister that raised me. So, it was just me and her, and but yeah, bro, like this, it's a, it's such a ingrained thing, like in our nature to not be connected with ourselves and all that we are. So that vulnerability and being able to accept ourselves against everything that the world says we are and that we should be is so difficult. And I didn't, you had that thought process, as a man, that you should be all of these different things or whatever, for whatever reason, I didn't have any of that stuff at all, but I still didn't do it because of my own made up reasons or whatever. So it's just ingrained in our nature for some reason.

Michael: Yeah I think it's partly a nature versus nurture conversation, right? You grow up with having no real measure of manhood, you grow up with no real understanding of a strong bonded family unit, you grow up, even though I played sports, like I wasn't great at most of them, I did pretty well at a couple, I still got bullied for being the poorest kid in the poorest school in the school district, like even though I'm six foot four, two 20, dude, I'm getting in fights constantly, people try to start shit. And it was just like, I turned off and became a robot, an emotional robot as a man, as a teenager, as a boy, and eventually as a man, I was like and dude, it wasn't until I'm sitting here in this massive rock bottom moment where my life is a complete train wreck, where I was like, there's gotta be another way. And what was interesting is the other way came in honesty, John, it came in the truth, it came in sharing the deepest intimate secrets of my soul initially with professionals, obviously, but then with people and learning to trust people and learn that I am worthy and here's what's so crazy about worthiness. And this is my thought on it, like you're not worthy until you do something that you feel to be worthy of. I didn't feel worthy because I was so scared of the idea that I could. And it was like, until I took the steps, nothing became different. And then now, obviously it's very different. I live a very different life now. But the narrative about this idea that to be a man requires you to be invisible, to not see yourself. I think that's the biggest lie we're told.

John: I think, man, that in that same token, I don't even know, man, where those destructive thought processes come from. And even though I didn't have that, that the same frame that you had I've been around men my whole life, obviously, especially being in the military, seeing so many different frames from guys who were just, gung-ho freaking America's in my blood. You know what I'm saying? Give me a rifle, and my, my, my dip or whatever the case may be and send me to combat type guys to, the guys right out the hood, man, who you can put them in the military, but you still can't take the hood out of them, which was myself, man. And we have so many different frames of what we think we're supposed to be. And then for myself, man, it really took me getting to a point to where I had to decide who do I want to be? Like, what type of man would make me proud of who I am? Because I'm the only one that gets to live my life. And what's interesting, man, and I can't remember what book it was, I don't know if it was no more Mr. Nice Guy outfit was models, which are both phenomenal books, but I came to realize, man, that even in the way that we carry ourselves as men, be it relationships, be it in whatever we do professionally, whatever the case may be, we prioritize the perception of how we show up to other men and we will disregard ourselves to make sure that they think something about us. And I didn't realize, man, that I had done that multiple times in my life, and that at a lot of the times when I felt like I was the most lost, it was because I was trying to be somebody for somebody else, or for some other man, only to find out, man, that they weren't even sure about themselves. They got all of these thought processes, and these frames, and these ways of thinking that weren't even theirs. They were just holding on to them, but they had no context. Somebody gave it to them, and they never thought to challenge it. And it wasn't until I really found peace with myself, man. Therapy and reading books. No more. Mr. Nice guy really unlocked me like it really unlocked me and finding out, man, that one of the best things that I was ever able to do was truly accept vulnerability and being open with everything that I am. And it made me realize the more that I saw myself, that I was able to see other people because we all got stories, man. And I realized that there's nothing that I've ever been through to where somebody hasn't been through something worse. And the worst thing that I could think about myself, somebody else is thinking about themselves and whatever they've been through. And they're thinking that their thing is worse than my thing. So we're in these subconscious battles of comparison, thinking about ourselves when nobody's actually thinking about the other person. We're so in our own heads, man, that we're fighting these own fictitious battles for validation. And we never think about ourselves to the point where we say who am I like? What actually brings me joy? What should it, should I be doing that gives me a sense of fulfillment? What, could I design myself in a way to where I could truly be proud of myself and think that I'm more than what I thought of myself before in previous points in my life? And man, it took a lot of self-work and reflex man to get to that point, but it wasn't doing all of that man. I found high level of peace. High level of peace.

Michael: I love that man. And that piece is In my opinion, that piece is the thing that changes your life. Because I have the same journey, because at a young age, even though I didn't graduate high school and I come from the hood and I have nothing, man, my goal was like, I need to make money. And I landed a job with a fortune 10 company. I'm making six figures, but I'm in debt. I have a horrible relationship. I'm flexing. Cause I have an 80,000 car and go into 500 dinners. But I got bill collectors calling me. But I got Jordans on my feet and I'll age myself. I had some Sean John suits on and I'm like, but what are we really doing here? And it wasn't until I had this unbelievably humbling moment where at 29 years old, I packed up a rental car with 500 in my pocket. And I drove across the country to go work with this trauma therapist. And a couple of weeks in. I'm broke, I'm completely broke, my business had failed. I have no money and I'm only trying to go to therapy. That's it, dude. I'm that committed to the game where I put on social media. Can somebody loan me 150 bucks so I can go to therapy this week? Because in my mind, John, the thing to me that I believe to be what it is that sets you free is your willingness to be vulnerable, your willingness to ask for help, the willingness to receive, but also most importantly, the willingness to recognize what you just said, your thought is not an exclusive John thought. It's not an exclusive Michael thought or a Stacy thought or a Bridget thought. Like it's an, everybody thought we are all having this interconnected human experience at this eternal and soul level. And when you think that it is a you problem, you isolate yourself to this point where it's almost impossible to get out or at least seemingly and then you raise your hand and you're like, Yeah, I'm the military guy and I did this and I did that, but I got to go to therapy and I'm like, I'm the business owner entrepreneur. I came from nothing. I was homeless as a kid. Now I drive an 80,000 car and I'm like, but my life is a disaster. I need to get a coach. And it's that's the moments in which your life changed because that vulnerability equals freedom, man. Cause I can't tell you how many times I had these thoughts in my head that collapsed me, that made me have a panic attack that put me on the ground. I'm not good enough. I don't matter. I'm not important. And then it was like, man, I unraveled all that shit. What kind of boy feels important about the world when he never met his father? And what kind of man has good relationships with women when his mom was a drug addict? And it was like, fuck man, I keep unraveling all of these layers, but it all started with vulnerability. I'm so curious for you. What has vulnerability done to your relationship, to your friendships, to fatherhood, to husband dumb, I really want to go deep into this for a second?

John: Yeah, for sure, man. It's been freedom, bro. Just like you mentioned, it's been complete freedom. And in doing so for me again, it made me see not only myself, but it really made me see people. And I was listening to a podcast, man, a while back with Alex and Mosey, and I forgot who he was quoting, but one of the guys he quoted, he was saying that forgiveness is. True forgiveness is understanding. And I sat on that, man, for a while because it really made me realize that a lot of the things that anger us, man, in ourselves and even in other people is what we don't understand. And that's the only reason why it gets as worked up to that degree to where personally we shut down. We start to think of ourselves as being unworthy. We start to have all of these limiting beliefs and self-doubts and things like that, because we create all of these stories behind ourselves. And we don't even empathize with ourselves. We don't even show ourselves any grace. A lot of the stuff, man, that we've experienced and that we ran into wasn't even our fault. It was just the cards that we were dealt. But we grow through those things just like any other person, man. We overcome them or whatever. And we get to a point that we're able to look at those things in hindsight. And if we choose to, we can frame those things and see how they actually had some benefit to us. Because something I've learned, man, is that Nothing can singularly be bad. And when I started doing a lot of myself work, man, and really just unpacking what vulnerability meant to me, because it really had no definition to me until quite honestly, maybe about three, six, three to six months ago, maybe like to where I really started to think about it for myself and not just what I heard. And in doing so. It just brought me to this point, man, of realizing that I needed to spend more time of like just understanding myself and then doing that. I just realized, man, that we all have a story and I was able to look at, man, every bad situation that ever happened to me and I was able to find a positive ending. From the point of me, almost going bankrupt at that 1 point in time. Man, that brought me and my wife and my daughter so freaking close after that, man. It did have this traumatic experience on me or whatever the case may be, but there was also equally positive, strong, positive that came from that. I look at other moments, man, where I've been through some of the worst situations or whatever, or moments where I really need to connect with people because I've been sitting, across some people before who are ready to end it all and it was my ability to connect with them based off of things that I've gone through that allowed them to be able to see me and let them know that they were seen because of what I had dealt with and they knew that they weren't alone. But if I didn't have that context, I probably wouldn't have been able to do what I did. And so, it's we think that everything that we've gone through and the things that have beat us up and torn us down at some point in time we think that they're just. Woe is me type moments or whatever the case may be, but if we try hard enough man to actually leverage and I started looking at all of those things, man, it's like, how can I frame these things in ways that are actually beneficial? And I was able to do that with the worst of my situations, even being able to look at man, different things about me, like little quirks, man, the things that make me weird, so to say. It also became a filter because if I'm open and honest about everything that I am, man, it also makes me able to connect with people way quicker, but it also detracts the people that aren't for me very fast, which saves all of us a little bit of time, you know what I mean? And so it just allowed me to see myself and just realizing, man, we're human. We're all living this human experience, man. And we got to get out of our heads, man. The thinking that was so special that people are actually thinking about us the way that we think they are when they're thinking about themselves. And if we honest with ourselves, man, our lack of vulnerability, man, is really just a high level of arrogance and selfishness because we think everything revolves around us and we think that our struggles are so special. That we put them on a pedestal, and we believe that other people should put them on a pedestal too. And they ain't even thinking about us, man. They thinking about their own crap, but we all exchanging all of this judgment and hate and stuff like that or whatever, thinking that as long as you don't know mine, I'm safe, which just shows how broken you are. And when I was able to just see people in that light, after seeing myself in that light, freedom, bro, just freedom. Like I can be okay with everything I've gone through and realizing that the worst thing I've gone through ain't even a fraction of negative or bad in comparison to something somebody else has been through. It's just a portion of my life and if I can look at it as a positive and you can't, that's a you problem.

Michael: Mic drop, right? And I think so much of it is the quote that comes to mind for me is, and Tony Robbins says this all the time, Life isn't happening to you, life is happening for you. And that is such a hard thing to wrap your head around when you are a victim. And if you play victim games, you win victim prizes. And I know that's such a hard thing. It's the hardest pill for people to swallow John. ‘Cause like when I go look at my life and it's a rock bottom and it's a disaster and my brother won't talk to me and everybody hates me and I'm drinking every night and partying and 350 pounds. I was playing victim games and man, those prizes were not worth nearly the value of playing the game as being the hero of your own story. John, there's so many more levels. I want to go here with you, man, but I think we're going to have to save a few of these pieces for another day. I'll Before I ask you my last question, I just want to give you some gratitude and tell you thank you for being here. Thank you for being a vulnerable man, for leading your relationship, for sharing the truth, for being willing to be the outlier in such a negative space. I just want to see you and acknowledge you for that. Before I ask you the last question, where can everyone find you? Listen to the podcast and learn more.

John: First off, man, I appreciate all of that, but especially doing this whole thing, man, and not really looking to get a whole lot from it, but knowing that it has some level of an impact. So I think that's. Special in its own way. But yeah, man, Instagram is why I'm primarily at @TroneSoDriven. That's T-R-O-N-E-S-O-Driven. So that's why I'm at on there, man. Same thing on TikTok, for this little have alone, it's gonna still be there. And on YouTube, man, also we're at One Dope Couple. Same thing on Instagram as well, One Dope Couple where I have a show with myself and my wife. And that's primarily where we hanging out, man. Really just being open and honest, sharing, our conversations and things that we're actively growing through. So we stay away from scenarios and hypotheticals or whatever, man, is it's just, it's being open and honest, man. That's all it is.

Michael: Love it. And guys, remember, go to thinkunbrokenpodcast.com where you can learn more about John in the show notes for today's episode. My last question for you, my friend, what does it mean to you to be unbroken?

John: Be unbroken, I honestly believe, man, that means seeing yourself, not as we as people tend to see ourselves, but seeing yourself the way God sees us, made in his image and realizing that. None of who you are was by mistake. So you're not broken. Like you're right where you're supposed to be learning the lessons you're supposed to learn, realizing that all of what you have and all of what you are, it's not just for you, but it's meant for you to really be able to take that and use it with purpose to be able to serve somebody else. So don't look at those negative things, that you've typically framed your life around as being scars or battle wounds or things that you think will break you, but things that you made it through another to help somebody else make it through the right way is supposed to be. And so that's how I look at it.

Michael: Brilliantly said, man, I couldn't agree more. And the thing that comes to mind for me is. The worst thing that happened to you is not the worst thing that happened to you. And it's we got to keep going forward. You've got to continue to press forward, know and understand the truth. And in that you will be free. John, my friend, thank you so much for being here. Unbroken Nation, thank you for listening guys. Please remember when you share this, you're helping other people transform their trauma to triumph breakdowns to breakthroughs and become the hero of their own story.

And Until Next Time,

My Friends, Be Unbroken.

I'll See Ya.