How to Find the Courage to Be Yourself | with Leila Hormozi

Michael: Leila Hormozi, welcome to Think Unbroken, my friend.

Leila: Thanks for having me on. Excited.

Michael: Thanks for coming. I've been looking forward to doing this with you for a long time. You guys have had a ton going on between everything amazing that you do at Acquisition.com, as well as this new amazing office that you're, that I'm lucky enough to be the first person to record you in here, word on the street. But how have you been? What's going on in your life?

Leila: Good. Busy probably one of the busiest seasons since we sold our last business. So that's probably been three and a half years. I think it's probably the busiest and the most, I would say like amount of stress that I has been present in my life. In a long time, which has been interesting to see the difference.

Michael: Which is really fascinating because when I, you and I have the honor of meeting each other. We did a top golf event like a year ago, right? Through a mutual friend, David Meltzer. And you and I had accidentally somehow by the synergy of the universe found ourselves just to the side, having the sidebar conversation for an hour.

Leila: I'm so much more comfortable doing that, I'm right. Talking to 100 people.

Michael: People don't believe it because I'm on social media. I'm such an introvert. I'm like, you put me in that room and I just want to run. But you brought something to the table that was deeply intimate. And I feel like I have this wonderful gift that's been bestowed upon me to have real conversations with people. And at the end of that conversation, I was like, you're a real motherfucker and you've been through some shit. And so I want to jump this off. If you were to describe your childhood in one word, what would that be?

Leila: Alone.

Michael: I resonate with that. Why?

Leila: Yeah. I think that what's given me a lot of the skills that I have today of leadership was that I was alone for a lot of my childhood and had to learn how to lead myself. And so it started because, my parents were married, but clearly did not love each other for my the memory of my childhood that I have my sister and I did not get along when I was a child. And so being in the house, I remember a relationship where two people were very cold towards one another. And therefore I would say like more distant from me because there's a lot going on between them. Rightfully, if you have a marriage that's not great, then it's, everything else is a little bit tough. And then my sister and I were not close when we were younger, we're great now. She's about to get married and we were made of honor, but back then we weren't. And parents ended up separating and then getting divorced. At the same time, my sister left the house. And so then I was left in the house with my mother. So my dad moved out, then my sister moved out, and then it was just me and my mother. And then she stumbled into drugs and alcohol. And when that happened she just started to, I would say first she's aloof mentally, and then she's aloof mentally and physically. And so it got to the point where I would think that she was dead because she'd be gone for days at a time. And I think that if I reflect back on my childhood what was I feeling? It was just like an intense sense of loneliness and isolation. I didn't want to call my dad because I didn't want him to know what was happening with my mom because at, when I was growing up, I was a little bit closer to her because he was at work, she stayed home. And so I felt like this weird sense of obligation to protect her and not, and I felt like worried that if I wasn't there that she might die, she might not be able to take care of herself, the animals wouldn't be able to, we had a ton of animals, wouldn't be able to take care of themselves. And so I felt this sense of duty to stay. I didn't feel close enough to my sister to talk to her about that because we just fought constantly when we were younger. there's, I have very, honestly, I don't think of any like good memories, I think she would say the same. Until we were much older, we just had no relationship. So those were really the two people I could call on. And aside from that, there's friends, but you never want to reveal too much, because you don't want any anything to happen that takes you out of the house, because even if it's terrible, when I'm a kid, I don't think that, I'm just like, this is what I know, this is what I'm used to. And I just remember having this perpetual feeling of stress I remember reading a book one time, and I identified a lot with that, which was that the feeling that I had was like, I'm sitting here, and there's a lion circling me. And it's just like constantly looking for like, where's the lion? It's going to get me and eat me. And that was the feeling that I had every day, all day. I think that showed up in a lot of ways in terms of just like a kid being that stressed. It was tough and I think I just felt very isolated.

Michael: Yeah, I resonate. And I think that what happens for a lot of children who grew up in that situation is it makes them unbelievably resilient. I remember there were times when I'm like eight years old getting bounced around place to place. I never knew where I was going to sleep most of the time calling my mom, no one knows where she is. And she would just disappear like ghost. And we'd be like, where's mom at? And nobody knows, and it was another vendor, another rehab, another. My mom got married like six times. Another just random marriage and some dude would show up and you'd be like, what in the fuck is happening right now? And I remember one time I was very young, I was like 10 or 11 years old And I was in the house living by myself and I just made this decision, and this is the moment that you and I think really connected, ‘cause I was like, holy shit, I don't know a lot of people have experienced this. I was home by myself in Indianapolis living in this house with no electricity, no running water, everyone's gone. And I was like, fuck this. And I was like, when I'm a grownup, like I'm going to be awesome. I didn't know I didn't know what awesome meant. And I got super focused at a young age and it took me down this spiral of different things, but I felt so unbelievably certain where I was like, I'm never going to worry about paying my rent or my water or my electricity and I have all the food and a cool car and a hot girlfriend and the whole fucking nine. And you had that thought too, but what I think was really interesting about the intersection for us is it both came from there was no other option.

Leila: Yeah, it's funny when you say that because I'm like, it just makes it reminds me that we're all human and we're all so similar, but we don't realize that from the outside, right? We all look so different, we all talk differently and we all share different experiences, but. Yeah. I had the same moment. It was, I remember it vividly to this day and it's the moment I think everything in my life changed, which was, it was like the third day of my mother being gone, didn't know where she was. It was like, whatever, two or 3am. I probably called her 20 times and I just wanted her to answer, not because I want her to come home. I just want to know she wasn't dead. And I was like leaving messages. I'm like, just call me and just tell me you're not dead, like that. God give me the like relief.

Michael: Even the death might've felt better than the unknowing.

Leila: Death would be a relief. Because it's the unknowing and the not knowing what's going to happen next that's just torture. At least when you're a kid at that age. And so I remember sitting there and I'd been, I was sitting in our guest bedroom, staring out the window, there's no one out, it's dark. And I'm on this phone with this ring, ringlet cord, it's so old school back then where you had to plug in the phone instead of the internet. And yeah, I'm showing my age.

Michael: I remember that.

Leila: Yeah. And I just, all of a sudden this voice in my head was like, stop calling her. And I put the phone down and I was like, this will not be my life. But the next thought was, but you've got to make it worth it. And I was like, I need to become the woman that I do not have in my life. I need to become the woman that this girl today could look up to. And I started thinking about, what do I want my life to look like? And I was like, I want this to be the worst part of my life, and I want everything thereafter to be the best life I could ever build. And that was, I don't know what it was, but it was like after that moment, I stopped calling her, I stopped hoping for her to come home, and it was like this weird sense of acceptance that it was gonna be fucking awful, but that I would be better for it.

Michael: Yeah. And it is awful. There's nothing more awful than isolation and childhood. And that's one of the reasons why I wanted to have this conversation with you is because I look at your life outside observer, we don't really know each other. And I go, Oh, we have one thing in common. We're like, fuck it. We're going to figure this out. And the thing that I'm always driving towards is how you help other people do that. But in my own journey, even that realization I had at such a young age had driven me, but in the wrong direction, right? Getting kicked out of multiple high schools, handcuffs more times than I can count, running in the streets, getting shot at, hurting people. Shit. Like I don't even talk about Leila cause I'm like, if I say this shit, am I going to go to jail? And then I look at it and I'm like, there, it was more than just one breakdown on the way to this success. And a lot of it just had to do with, I was just willing to get back up. And I know that you had a lot of similar struggles as I did. You're overweight as a teen drinking, partying, bad situations, fucking your life up. But in the back of your head, you still had this, I want to be great. How do you I want to take you back into that moment because I think that there are, let me phrase it. I know there are people right now today who are like, I want to be great, but they're 37 and their life's a fucking disaster because they're still tied into 12 years old. When you were in that moment and you're like, I'm fucking my life up, I've been arrested six times, I'm fat, I'm using your words. By the way, I was fat too. So like fat kid club.

Leila: Yeah. I don't either.

Michael: I think we need to admit it. Yeah. How do you navigate those moments in those break points of fuck, I really want this, but I am destroying my life right now?

Leila: I think that, for me going back and I would say that I gained a lot of wisdom through what happened when I was a child and I rose above it and was on a decent path. And then I allowed the, I would say like anger to overtake me. And That's really what happened that drove me into partying and drinking and doing all this stuff was.

Michael: Anger at what?

Leila: Everything. I just felt pissed. And I remember like the moment that I realized, I was like, I'm fucking mad. I was at my dad's house because my mother had tried to kill herself. And then eventually the police came, found out I got taken away from my mom, right? I was like 14, and ended up living with my dad. And I did good for a couple years, and then it was close to when I was going to graduate high school, and I remember I was Because I'd been living on my own for so long and then I came to this house with all these rules and they start telling me what to do. And I was like, what the fuck? I fucking took care of myself, I took care of this woman, I took care of 13 animals. I took it like I've done this for years.

Michael: I got the bills.

Leila: Yeah, I don't. Yeah.

Michael: Dress yourself. Yes.

Leila: I drove a car. Like I was like, I don't need these rules, and I had stepsiblings in the house and I think they needed the rules, but I was like, I can take care of myself. And I started getting really angry. And I think the moment I realized that I remember specifically. I said I was leaving and they were like, you can't leave because, we made these new rules in the house and we don't want any of you leaving like past this time. And I was like, this is stupid as fuck. I'm just like over it. And so I was at my car and they were like, give me your keys. And I just remember my stepmom was standing there and I was so mad. I took my keys and just chucked them at her face. And my dad didn't speak to me for a month. And I remember after that.

Michael: How old were you?

Leila: 18. Okay. I remember he sat me down and was basically just what the fuck, you could have really hurt her. And I just remember like thinking, I was like, I'm just so mad all the time. Like I'm just, and I didn't know why, and I think that there was, what I realized was that, though I had gotten through what I did with my mother, I still refused to solve a problem that somebody else started. I did not create the circumstances that created my problems. And therefore I thought that this isn't fair. I shouldn't be the one to solve this. And I think that's what, when I finally came to the other side of realizing that I was completely fucking my life up, like six arrests in, overweight as fuck, like just a deadbeat. I remember my dad sitting me down, and saying, I think you're going to kill yourself. And the first thought that popped in my head was, I think he's right. And the second thought that popped in my head was like, this is not the person I want to be, but I just don't know how.

Michael: Yeah. One of the things I teach my clients, it's like the first thing when they come in, I make this frame and I say, the problems in your life from your childhood are like owning a house. And when you go outside, there's trash everywhere. And even though it's not your trash, it's your house. And it was sitting in my therapist's office, I was like 30 years old. I'd been like four or five years into this work, but I was still just fuck, because I destroyed my life at 26. I had made a million bucks, I was 50 grand in debt, 350 pounds smoking two packs a day, car got repoed, brother doesn't talk to me, cheating on my girlfriend. And I was like, fuck this shit. I'm going to fix this, and it was like, I had spent everything. everything, time, effort, energy, money to go down this healing journey. And here I am four or five years into it and like things aren't progressing. I'm like, why am I still dealing with this? And I remember sitting in my therapist's office and he, and I was like, dude, I don't want to be here. I'm tired of your fucking face tired of I literally, these were my complete honest to God words, I'm like, I'm tired of your fucking face. I'm tired of this same chair, this dumb chamomile tea, the same clock every Wednesday night for years. And I was like, why am I having to clean up the mistakes of my parents? And he was like, you don't have to, but what else are you going to do? And I think that there's so many people who just play into that victim. And when we're in that victim space, letting anger be the driver, you can watch what your life looks like through a frame and scope of anger. What was it for you that became the pivotal turning point?

Leila: It was in that moment realizing that the times when other people quit are an opportunity for others to step up and win. And when I say win, I mean win at life. And that was what I really realized. I was like, I'm so angry at the things that my mother did to quote, ruin my life. But I was a kid when that happened and now I'm an adult and I'm just choosing not to acquire the skills to fix these problems.

Michael: Do you, I'm going to interrupt you because this question is killing me right now. I have to ask you, I always felt like I was exactly what everyone told me, even though I had made money and had a relationship and cars and clothes and all that. And all of my childhood I heard, you suck, you're a loser, you're not enough, you're fat, you're dumb, you don't matter, and even though I had these glimmers of success, I felt like I was living in the expectations of other people. Does that resonate with you at all?

Leila: It doesn't anymore, but it did back then.

Michael: Yeah, then.

Leila: Yeah. I think I let a lot of what other people told me about what happened to me, what it meant, and what it meant for me, and what it meant about me, and what I needed to do to get over it and I need to just sit there and keep talking about it and because I just need to keep talking about it because I'm so angry because I need to talk about it more I'm like I've been talking about it for five fucking years and like I don't feel any better man Like I feel better when I don't talk to you about this shit. And so I think it was that combined with a lot of labels that people put on me They're like, oh you should go on, they put me on antidepressants and anti anxiety medications and like shit that's like It has long term repercussions that you should not be putting children on. And it's, they told me all of these things that I was feeling and experiencing were bad and wrong. And because of them, it's a problem, right? And I think that a lot of where my anger and anxiety stemmed from was believing people that were in authority, authoritative positions and believing what they told me about myself. Until one day I remember that my dad was like, I want you to see a psychiatrist, right? Which we all know differences, psychologists and psychiatrists. One prescribes medication. And I went in and it was a 20 minute session, and I remember the questions this guy asked me. Like he literally even said, he's do you have more energy on the weekends? And I was like, duh, I'm not getting up for fucking school, motherfucker. And after the session, he's I think I know what's wrong. He labeled me with three different disorders. I think it was like bipolar, depressed, generalized anxiety disorder, yeah. I think it was those three. And then he gave me six medications.

Michael: Holy fuck.

Leila: Six.

Michael: And that's funny because that's the solution when you probably just needed a hug.

Leila: And someone to be like, it is reasonable that you're so angry given what happened. The problem is that people kept telling me that it's a problem that I'm angry. If somebody had just said, that makes complete sense. I would have felt so much better, but it's I felt like my anger and my anxiety was a problem. I'm like, oh, I shouldn't feel this way. It's should you not feel that way when all of these awful things happen to you? Of course you would feel that way. But I think that people, I would say demonstracize negative feelings to the point where people who do experience them think there's something wrong with them for feeling so awful. And part of it, I think in my journey to like, where I am now has been embracing feeling awful and being like, I'm fucking good at feeling awful now. All these people around here that aren't able to achieve what they want to achieve. I think a lot of it is they're not good at feeling awful. And I have a lot of reps of feeling awful and realizing that's a completely normal reaction to a lot of bad things that happen in life. And it's okay.

Michael: It's human. Yeah, it's human. And this is what I try to teach, especially in my men's groups. I'm like, you need to know how to be angry and allow that feeling to exist, but to control that shit. And I remember once I was in this men's group and we were talking about anger. And one of the guys looks at me and he goes, you don't know how to be angry. I was like, motherfucker, I'll throw you through that wall right now. These are literally my words. And he goes no, see, that's the thing. You know how to be violent, but you don't know how to understand anger. And it changed my life forever, ‘cause I realized it was an emotion, not a reaction. And we're all victim to our emotions, especially if you're sitting in this moment where here's this guy who's fuck it. This is why I look, I'll, I have a lot of different thoughts about psychiatry. And therapy as a whole, and I tell people all the time, if I go back in time, I would have hired a coach before I hired a therapist because I needed behavioral changes because this is what happens. You have all these people who are just young and hurt or even older and hurt. And they're like, fuck, my life is a disaster. They sit around with some guy who happened to go to college. He's here's six prescriptions, and you're like, motherfucker, do you know what it's like? In this real world, but that's a, that's trappings, right? Because that becomes an excuse and it almost becomes dogmatic to look at this experience of childhood and be like my life sucks forever, fuck it, I might as well kill myself or I might as well not be successful. I might as well continue to be fat. And it's so difficult for people to shift their mindset. If you look back at the beginning of this and you're like, okay, I'm going to make this decision to become this different version of Leila. Did you have this grandiose idea about what life looks like now, or was it something much more nuanced?

Leila: I just knew I had to make the bad worth it. And I did not have a clear idea of what it was going to look like. I just knew I was going to run as fucking hard as possible in the opposite direction. So I just looked at, honestly, and I still probably have this as like a reference point for myself, which is I was like, what is everything I detest about my mother? And what is everything that I'm so terrified of becoming? And then I ran in the opposite direction. And by the way, that still controls you if you run the opposite direction, which I then realized later, which is okay I do have aspects of her that I also like, so I can embrace those as well. But for a long time, and I think a lot of the times what I realized for myself was, when it's, when you're first stepping into that change, when you're first going from like being a fucking deadbeat to I need to get my shit together. I think it's okay to use a little bit of that energy.

Michael: I agree.

Leila: You use whatever the fuck you've got. I had a ton of anxiety and I probably to this day still do a lot and I use it in a way that is acceptable. And I think that is what I realized is that I was using, I was letting the anxiety use me. I'm just using general terms. And now I have used, learned how to use it in a way that is celebrated socially. And that is all. It's not like the feelings, one, I think that I have a very high tolerance now for negative feelings. I can suffer very well. I can feel awful very well. And a lot of people, I think, have a very low tolerance to suffering. And these are not things I say about myself. These are things that I would say that my closest friends observe about me. And I think with that having that tolerance is that a lot of people never allow themselves to build it because they're spending so much time trying to run away from it. It's like I'm just trying not to feel it, and I'm trying to just pretend it doesn't exist, not feel it, whatever, rather than like me who I accept it, and then I doesn't, it's almost like I can find joy in feeling bad, because I realize that if I can feel bad and still behave well, I will get to my goals. The feelings will come and go, I have control over my behavior, I'm going to get to my goals either way. Does that make sense?

Michael: Yeah, of course. And it's you have to compartmentalize. Because if my feelings were the thing that controlling, were controlling me, my feelings are to move towards pleasure by any means necessary. And pleasure for me, knowing who I am, is drugs, alcohol, girls, porn, video games, gummy bears, chocolate cake, buying cars, like the whole shit, that's pleasure. And suffering is chosen. I love that you use that word because I look at it, suffering means, if you look at the definition, to be in discomfort. Growing a business is in discomfort, coaching people, standing on big stages, losing weight, fit bikini competitions, like that's fucking chosen suffering. And I've, I believe this to my core, it takes as much energy to destroy your life as it does to create your life. But I think there's a decision making mechanism involved in this. And I know that you have this really interesting thought process on decision making and love for you to break that down, how you utilize that in your life.

Leila: Yeah, I think a lot of the times. If I'm looking at making a decision, whether it's about a person, a behavior, I just ask myself the same question all these scenarios, which is this going to make my life better or worse? By my definition. And that has served me very well in a lot of instances example would be drinking. Is this going to make my life better or worse? Now there's a caveat, which is, I would say there's 10 minutes and 10 years. It could be better in 10 minutes, worse in 10 years, right? And so I try to, when I filter that question I want to make the best decision that will make, what will make my life better both in 10 minutes and in 10 years. And I actually think about that. That question probably pops in my head five times a day, because I have a lot of urges to do things, especially because I'm generally uncomfortable a lot of the times, that are not going to propel me towards my goals. And so I have to catch myself, and that is the question I constantly use, is this going to make my life better in the next ten minutes and in the next ten years? And if it's not going to in both, then I'm not going to do it. Even if I want to, I ignore that. I think a lot of people, they come to me and they say but I was thinking, I'm like, Dude. Don't trust your thoughts. If your life is shit, why are you listening to your own fucking thoughts? Agreed. Go listen to somebody who knows what the fuck they're doing. Go listen to you. Go listen to me. Go listen to somebody else's shit together. I was like, your thought shit's fucked up. Don't listen to whatever the fuck pops up in your head, okay? You should probably just do the opposite. For me, that's always worked really well, and I think that's guided me into making good decisions because I think a lot of the times making bad decisions is just thinking what would make my life better now, not later.

Michael: Yeah. And that's the impulse. That's the thing of moving towards pleasure in the immediacy for going delaying instant gratification or trying to have instant gratification instead of foregoing it. And then you end up in this fucking situation where you're like, I can't believe I just woke up hung over again. I didn't start the project. I cheated on my wife, next thing you know, the kids don't talk to me, I'm 50,000 in debt. And then you're in this fucking crazy, vicious cycle. And it's really about self control, but it's so difficult. Here's what I always think about. If you grow up in chaos, self control is so far away from your emotional home that you might as well be talking about planet fucking Mars. You know what I mean? And then what I've come to discover is the people who create actual change in their life, they become radically disciplined. It almost becomes non negotiable to the point that people think they're insane. Like I know with, sir, I've had. The last three women I've dated have all called me a workaholic because they don't understand the mission. And my mission is to be the greatest version of me humanly possible, which requires discipline, like doing shit, like getting up at five 30 in the morning and researching Leila Hormozi and then packing up the studio and coming up the city and dealing with the I 15 traffic and be like, this is what I decided to do. How do you follow through on your decision making?

Leila: I think that there's a couple things. Which is, I always try to engineer my environment to make it easy as possible for me to make good decisions. So I'm not the type of person who's oh you should grit through it. I'm like, dude, if you can make it easier, that's called intelligence. Agreed. If I can make my shit easier for myself, which means, If there's any friends that, they can be rich as fuck, they can be billionaires, they can be, but if they make me want to go drink, if they make me want to go, if they're single women that ask me to go out with them and they're gonna go try and get guys if it's anything that would influence, that could ruin the things that are most important to me in life, I just say fuck it, I don't touch that shit. I just ignore them. Honestly, I'll just completely ignore them. Why? You don't have to. What do you mean?

Michael: Like, why ignore them? Like, why make the decision to keep moving forward, right?

Leila: Because why have those people in my life, in the very few slots I have, when I could have people that are propelling me forward towards my goals, rather than just not helping me?

Michael: Is that discipline?

Leila: I would say it's a form of discipline and intelligence, and probably also not people pleasing. A lot of people don't know how to say no. And so somebody's you come to the party, and they're like, I went to the party, I ended up drinking because they invited me. I'm like, what the fuck? You know what I mean? Replace the wishbone with a backbone. You need a backbone, motherfucker, you need to say no. And I think a huge piece for me was, I have learned how to say no without being a complete dick to people. Pardon my French. But I think a lot of people feel like, oh, I, I don't want to say no. I'm like, why? Saying no to somebody else is saying yes to yourself. And I think a huge piece for me was, I felt like I had to say yes to all these other people, otherwise I was like a mean person. That was a huge thing for me. And what I realized is every time I said yes to somebody else, that deterred me just a little bit from my goals, I was saying no to myself. And I think a lot of people, it's the little stuff like that where they get stuck. It's like, how do I say no to my family? How do I say no to my old friends? How do I say no to my boyfriend? How do I say no to my boss? And I'm like, okay if that's not going to help you get the ultimate yes that you need to make to yourself, then. You just default to no. And I think a lot of people don't have that muscle. And it just takes doing it one time to get the, I would say to start working the muscle.

Michael: I look at it as what does my future look like if you're in it? Like I'll tell you right now, like dating me is very intense. I ask the craziest questions right off the bat cause I just don't want to waste my time. And I rewind that back to this really intensive moment, like I never hit my mom in my entire life. She would beat the shit out of me. I'm six foot three to 20. Like I'm a big dude. My mom was like five, seven and I never touched her until one night she like tried to attack me with scissors and I kicked her to the ground and I stood over her and I said, if you ever touch me again, I'll kill you. And I meant it more than I met anything I'd ever said in my life. And I said, I'll never talk to you again. And Leila, I promise you this, I swear to God, I would not be here with you without that cut and dry moment of being like enough. And I think that's the thing that people fear is, I can't say no. What if I don't? It's my mom. It's my sister. It's my cousin, it's this, it's that, and it's they feel shame, they feel guilt. For me, I didn't feel that, there was no other alternative. And I don't feel it now. If you don't move me towards my goals, there's no place at my table for you. And that's not to be selfish, but it's just looking at the reality of the world.

Leila: Expect others to do it too.

Michael: I 100 percent do. I don't want to even interview people who aren't moving towards something incredible in life. How is it that, and I don't know if this is true for you, but when you have to step away from these people, when you have to change the environment, when you have to say no, is there shame? Is there guilt? Are there thoughts in your head about what if or what not?

Leila: I think sometimes I feel sad for the people I have to say no to because they don't have anything that they're moving towards in life. And so if anything I feel sad for them because I go through this process truly. I could help them. Is that within the scope of this relationship though? No. Is it worth my time? No, like I have the ability to help these people and like the truth is I would rather put it towards these other people. So it's that's actually the thought I go through. And so sometimes if I feel slightly guilty, but it still doesn't justify it to me because I look at it like this, which is if you say yes to this person, who on the other side are you robbing that time from, whether it be yourself or somebody else who is much more deserving of that time and who has done much more to propel themselves in the direction that you also seek to go. And so I, a huge frame I use for myself is okay this person wants this thing from you. You could help them. Who else needs your help that has shown through their actions that they are probably more worthy of it? And I'm like I have a whole team. I could do I would rather spend more time with them. I'd rather spend more time with these, six people that I think are like my true friends, I would rather spend more time with my husband, like I would just rather do that. And so I think it comes down to a preference at the same time, which is like I have the ability to help somebody. That doesn't mean that I have to. And I could also just say I would prefer not to. And I think a lot of people have a lot of shoulds must have tos. And I just think you have preferences. And I just say, I would just prefer not to help this person. It's not like I can't, because that's also language, like that's factually incorrect, people like, I just can't help them. I'm like, no, you can, you choose not to. So I just, I'm like, I just prefer not to, I think I have other things that I would rather do.

Michael: Differentiating who it is that you want to become, I think is the frame and the filter for that decision making. And that's a really hard thing because most people don't have a north star. They don't have anything they're moving towards and it's one of the things that drives me fucking crazy. There are people who I've coached over the year. Thousands of people at this point who've come through my programs or one on one. And I always can tell the people who are really going to be successful because it's very simple. They just do what the fuck I tell them. And that's the whole point. And that's not me being like, Oh, I'm no more than you. Or it's not, it's just there are reasons it's success leaves clues. And in your own life, you have to ask is this person bringing value to me, even if it's my own mother?

Leila: I think it's really interesting point that you point out because. When people are always like, I need a mentor, and I'm like, no you don't. Like, when you're first starting off, you need to go look at somebody who's successful, and just do exactly what they're doing, just go emulate them. Because the thing is that, at that point, when someone's just starting off, like they're a complete deadbeat, and they come to you, and they're like, I have no idea what to do, they also have no skills, they need one skill. Which is, they need to know how to follow instructions that you give them. And it's gonna get them, is it gonna get them to exactly where they want to be? Probably not, but it's going to get them way fucking better than where they are right now. And then, hopefully by that time, they can acquire critical thinking skills, decision making skills. They can think about ways in which they want to live their life. But if you meet people that are at that point in their life, they don't even have the skills to decide what that looks like for themselves. And so it makes sense to follow instructions from somebody else. I say this as somebody who, I don't even coach people, but I'm like, hey, if emulating this person's life would make your life better, why would you not do that? Because they're like I don't know what I want. And I'm like that's clear. It's very clear. So I'm pretty sure if you just pretend to be them, it'll get you better than where you are right now.

Michael: Yeah. Taking a step forward is always better than taking no step at all. And that's the thing that I look at. Fuck, I have felt so many times in my life that have become these beautiful lessons of learning and health, wealth, relationships, and especially in business. It's holy fuck, if I make one more mistake, I might close the whole thing down and you're like, okay, just keep going, and I think that's a huge part of it is just. The just keep going and this is an infinite game. There's no loss in this journey if you're willing to show up and play all out, but fear keeps people completely trapped. This as well as I do, like you can see the fear in people's eyes, even the willingness to be like, Hey, will you come on my podcast? Like people are like, Oh, she'll never do it. She's super famous. She's very busy, blah, blah, blah. And you're like, we're all just humans. We all have fear. We all are navigating this thing in front of us. And I've just learned to sit inside of fear and look at it and be like, I was homeless when I was eight. I don't give a fuck. And I leverage what I've learned to do is leverage at the worst scenario of my life against everything, the opposite.

Leila: Yes.

Michael: When fear comes into your life, how do you navigate that in your health, in your wealth, in your relationships?

Leila: I try to just completely go into it, like just rather than resisting it, I just go all in. I do not avoid it, I do not try not to think about it. I try to, I would even say befriend it. Like, how can I get more of this? Because I know that through everything I've done in my life, the more that I embrace the fear, and what I mean by that is, I engage with it, the less power it has over me. And, why would you be scared of fear if it does not control your behavior? People who fear, the reason that they have that fear is because it controls their behavior. If fear does not control my behavior, then why would I be scared of it? And so for me, I just know that every time it pops up, every time it's present, the only way to ensure that I do not become scared of it is to just not let it dictate my behavior. And so I almost make it like, if I'm scared, I'm like, I have to do it then. Because I'm just violently opposed to letting it rule my life, and I think I'm more scared of that than I am of whatever very catastrophic scenario my mind has made up.

Michael: Yeah. Which probably isn't even going to happen anyway.

Leila: Never. Has it ever? Maybe like once. Maybe.

Michael: No. Yeah. And I look at my life very simply, and I ask myself, on my deathbed, what is the last thought going to be? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And it's in that last little breath and you're like, your soul leaves your fucking body or whatever happens, if it's regret, that's my last thought. I know I failed, and so even though I'm scared of business, even though I'm scared of dating, especially in Las Vegas, his fucking nightmare, even though I'm scared of like the idea of speaking on stages, I spoke in front of Grant Cardone and 10,000 people and he invested in my company. I was terrified and it was like, fuck it, let's go. And I think that you have to, courage, I think is probably the most important thing that someone can do in this journey. Is the willingness to stand at the edge of the mountain, look down and just say, I trust that it's going to work out at the end and to compartmentalize that emotional, irrational thought process that they have about the what if. Because especially if you catastrophize and you look at the worst case scenario, you won't get love, you won't get happiness, you won't get joy. And obviously those are fleeting emotions. They don't all stay with you all day long. But when you look at life and you ask yourself, maybe you haven't, I don't know. I'm going to ask you and you look at that last moment that last before it's all over for you. How will you know if you actually kept that promise to that little Leila inside of you?

Leila: It's funny, the first thought that pops up is ' cause I'll be beat the fuck up by the time I get there. I want to know on my deathbed. I'm like, take me, I'm good. I'm done. I'm fucking, I'm toasted. Like I've given every ounce I've got. I'm exhausted, I'm ready to go, and I think I've always had that thought. There was actually a quote and I don't remember it word for word, but it talks about the point of life is not to make it to death well preserved in this amazing looking body with everything perfect and having never been touched by any tragic, but it's to get there beaten up fucked up, but proud of yourself for doing it because you got through it. And I think I look at it that way for myself. It's I just want to know that I died not having lived my life ruled by fear. And I think that's honestly the main thing for me. It's I just never want to be ruled by fear. That's it.

Michael: Are you proud of yourself today?

Leila: Yes.

Michael: Why?

Leila: Because I am constantly scared and constantly still doing things. And I think that I've gotten good enough at being scared that people don't even know I am. And to me, that's an accomplishment because I also don't want my fear to change somebody else's behavior. That's it. I don't want my fear to change my team's behavior, I don't want my fear to change my spouse's behavior, I don't want my fear to change my friend's behavior, because I think that people show up better when people around them aren't scared. And how can you lead others or influence others in a positive way if they think that you're terrified? And so I think that I do feel proud of myself because I think on a daily basis I am proving that to myself that I do those things.

Michael: I think that confidence is built by consistently doing incredibly uncomfortable things just every day, all the time, no matter what. And for some people, the most uncomfortable thing is not like the running the business. It's not the working out. Some people it's love. Especially when they come from chaotic backgrounds, when they come from having mothers who were like our mothers. And, we get a, I get to share that with you in solidarity, which is a very rare thing for me. How have you learned to accept love in your life?

Leila: It took me a really long time. I don't think that I loved anybody until Alex, like I had lots of, I had a five year relationship. I had a three year relationship, I had a two year relationship. And I don't think I let any of them in because I was too scared. And when I met Alex, he said something to me one time we were in the car. It was probably like six weeks into meeting each other and something happened, and I used to shut down and be cold when I was upset. Just weird to think, just don't do that anymore. But he looked at me and he said, he just, he looked at me like this and he was like, If you do this cold thing, this will never work. And I was like, and I felt very seen in that moment because he was so calm. It's like he yelled at me, and the first thought that popped in my head was, he's right. And it wasn't like, oh, I must do this to save this relationship. It was, if you ever want a relationship to work, you're gonna have to learn this. And so I really learned how to love through showing it. I think that I realized like I was really bad at holding hands, touching people, like hugging, like there's a lot of stuff I just didn't do, it felt weird. And I just challenged myself to do those things because I wanted it. I just didn't know how or what to do. And so I just did it through action, and I think that the more, through what I say to people and how I am affectionate towards the people I love, and hugging, and praising, and, little micro movements and stroking hair, like, all of those things, I would say are what made me comfortable with having, I would say giving and receiving love. I think that my actions in terms of showing love to my partner, like Alex that was never hard for me. Showing that I am loyal, showing that I will go through I will endure tough conditions and maintain the relationship. That's what I think love is. It's like, how much will you go through to maintain the relationship with the person? And I would do a lot, but I had a really hard time allowing any reciprocation. And that took me and it's probably, still something that I can be bad at, even three weeks ago he was like, you're really bad at accepting help. And I was like, ah, but I'm really good at taking feedback. So I was like, Oh, that's not good, okay. Can, and then I just literally was like, okay, I'll ask him for help on something. I think that I'm very good at showing it to others. I'm not as good at receiving it, but I am, So much better than I was, and I think it's also circumstantial. I can absolutely receive it from Alex, and I've learned to even ask for it. But also be okay if it's, if he's busy or something. I think I just allowed it to be uncomfortable and just knew it. I was just like, I It makes sense it's uncomfortable because it's not something that's familiar to me. I didn't grow up watching it, I didn't grow up understanding it. I was never in a household like that. So I only saw shit like that in like the movies, you know what I mean? And it's funny cause nobody's ever asked me about this. So I'm not very articulate around it, but it's interesting for me. It's, I think what has helped us well is I think that I'm also with somebody who has experienced similar things. And so we can talk about those things and we've been able to grow together in those ways, which has been really helpful to be honest. Because it's not like I had, in my past, for example, I had a relationship where I was just showered in forced push, almost a pusher of love and I was just like so wildly uncomfortable at the rate at which it was being thrown at me that I just left the relationship because I was like, I just don't know how to deal with this, and I don't think that relationship would have worked out anyways, but I think that I needed somebody that could. I would say had a higher level of intelligence to understand where I was coming from. And Alex knew. He's Oh, she's got a little bit of a barrier, she's a little cold, she has some behaviors that are not working in her favor. And he was like, that's okay if you're working on it, and so I do think that finding somebody who you can be a work in progress with, and you can talk about it with, and maybe they're a work in progress in something else, and you can hold each other accountable. I think that's really special for a lot of people.

Michael: I think it's necessary to if you really, truly want to live it's about the allowing, and I look at this in my own life. It took me a long time to love myself first. To do the work to show up to be like, yeah, I'm going to push myself through this discomfort. I'm going to choose suffering. I'm going to make myself get out of 50, 000 in debt and lose 150 pounds and stop smoking. I'm going to make myself love myself. There was a moment I hit this massive rock bottom and effectively I just, I put a gun in my mouth. I was done. I was like, fuck this shit, I've suffered so much, I was 26 at the time, I suffered so much. I just didn't want anymore. And there was this voice that called to me in this question in my head, it was like, what are you willing to do to have the life that you want to have? And the answer was no excuses, just results. It's fucking driven me every day of my life. But sometimes no excuses for me also means allotting the space where other people can care about you. Where you can let your guard down, where you can be human knowing that like even three weeks ago, having this experience of you are bad at asking for help. It's yeah, that's fucking human for people had to figure out the streets to figure out how to navigate the world to figure out that maybe they are alone until they realize that they're not. And it also reinforces this thought. I always have where it's like, this is a rest of your life journey. It's like when you decide to be you, what's really fucking crazy about it is you just signed up for a rest of your life game and it doesn't end. When you think about that, when you look back at this journey and these transformations, building amazing businesses, leading, becoming this person that both men and women alike look up to in the world, like it must feel worth it.

Leila: It does. And not because of any of that, but I think because of I can go to bed at night. feeling proud of who I am. Like, I was writing this post the other day, and it was like confidence doesn't come from compliments from strangers or even public recognition, but it comes through the teeth gritting white knuckle moments that you experience by yourself that you get through while adhering to your values, becoming the person you want to be, that nobody ever sees. And, you I think that is why I do think it's worth it, and I hope, I hope that it is an example for others, like specifically for people who have been in situations like that, of course because I think when I was growing up, and even early in my life, and even early in my 20s, I didn't know who to look to, like the, what I wanted to look up to just didn't exist, and I think that, that probably also propelled me forward into then, step into it. Because I think that there were a lot of just candidly, like there were a lot of men I looked up to, there were not a lot of women because I felt like I would be really I would admire a woman a lot and then they would expose themselves as a victim in another area. And I was just like, I just can't look up to somebody who blames others. And I think there's now a completely different more of there's a lot more women stepping into, I would say like an era of self responsibility of not blaming their emotions for being mean or rude or anything to people or spouse or whatever. Which I think is really great, but I think that it all stems from taking responsibility.

Michael: Yeah. Which is like the most difficult thing that we do. It's so much easier not to, and it is about that. It's about this decision and creating this life in this space where if you really truly want to be the person that you're capable of being, it's you fucking have to, because and look, I'm going to say something. This always gets me in trouble, when I say it, no one gives a fuck. If your life sucks, I don't care, I don't give two fucks. Like I don't, I'm here to help you. I will guide you. I will do anything in my power. I will interview the greatest minds in the world and expose you to them. But if your life sucks and you're not doing anything like, so what?

Leila: Yeah. Sure. Nobody cares.

Michael: Nobody cares. But it like that personal responsibility is almost frowned upon right now. Yes, we see this shift happening and thank God because we are creating such a weak society of human beings, but I would have to, I would have to take a step back and look at my life and understand one thing to be true, to understand how I got to where I am today and it's personal responsibility.

Leila: Yeah. It's really sad to see because I think, I see a lot of it, which is just blaming, shaming other people, calling people bad, toxic, awful and it makes me sad because I'm like, in those moments when you're just giving your power away. Even if it's true, even if it's this person's fault, even if they're a terrible person, how is this useful? How is it useful to you to blame this other person? And that's the question that I pose to people because I'll be honest, the question I get a lot is how do you deal with? Like being a female, when you have this husband and people don't give you credit, I'm like, I don't even think about that. And they're like I think it's true. And I'm like, even if it's true, how's this useful to me? It's not. It's not fucking useful to think about that. So why would I think about that when I could think about a million other things I could do that can make other people's lives better in my own. And so I think if more people took that stance of maybe it's true, is it useful? I think they would have way better lives.

Michael: I agree. And if I look at my life, maybe it was true. I was fat, I was dumb, I was lazy, I was a drug addict, I was a cheater, I was a manipulator. All true. Great. And you can either use it for you or against you because none of those things are true today. And it's something that I take a lot of pride in. And to tell you the truth, I just have a shit ton of gratitude for myself because I'm like, I'm really glad there's a hilarious video of Snoop Dogg on the day that he got put on now. Hollywood Walk of Fame and he goes, first of all, I'd like to thank myself. And I was like, yeah, you should. But today, since I'm interviewing you first, I'm going to extend gratitude to you. Thank you for being you. Thank you for the willingness to show up and to honor that little girl in you that wanted something better because of that decision, you're shaping the world, which means that you're supporting my mission. Which is to end generational trauma in my lifetime so that kids don't have stories like ours and I have a tremendous amount of gratitude for your willingness to get the fuck out of your own way and show up and it's very difficult. What do you have gratitude for yourself for?

Leila: My honesty. I think that I have a lot of gratitude for my ability to be honest with myself and honest with others and honest with Social media. I actually, it's weird you say that because I'm like, oh, I'm not good at recognizing things I'm good at or that are important to me. So then I was thinking like, what is really important to me and people around me? And I was like, honesty is like the number one. People can do shitty things, but if they're honest about it, I'm likely to be forgiving because nobody's perfect. But if somebody does a shitty thing and hides it, I don't want to talk to you, I'm never going to talk to you again. And I was like, why is that? And I was like, it's because I hold myself to this irrational standard of honesty. That probably bites me in the ass a lot of the times because I just, when people are like, oh, I'm going on this podcast, but I'm like, what should I say? And I'm like, I've literally never had that thought. I'm just like, I don't know. Be honest, be honest. And the way that I think that the, what I'm grateful for is that the reason that I can be honest is because I'm proud of who I am. And if I wasn't proud of who I was, I don't think it would be easy to be honest. But I am, and I don't feel like I have anything to hide. And so because of that, I think I'm proud of how I can show up.

Michael: Who's somebody in your life that you don't give enough gratitude to that in this moment? If you were to extend something to them, they've played a role in your life. Maybe they've helped you in some little way, maybe there's somebody that just man that one time at that one place in that one thing or maybe even somebody closer who changes your life on a daily basis. Who's somebody that needs a little bit of gratitude from Leila?

Leila: My friend Trevor. His name is Trevor Kashey. He is just like the most amazing human. And he, because of the things that he does and he studies and then he teaches me, he is, I just sent him a text yesterday. I was like, you have just generally in every area of my life made my life better. And I think that he has given me the tools to articulate the things that I know how to do. And without him, I do not think I would be able to do that nearly as well. And I feel grateful for him every day, almost to the point where I think it's weird to say. But I sent him a text yesterday about it, and so I would say it's him. I think it's very rare in life that you find a friend where when you take on something new, or when you have a problem, they immediately go and read 12 books about the topic, so that they can then condense the information to give it to you and help you. And he is that friend.

Michael: Before I ask you my last question, where can everyone find you?

Leila: I would say I'm most active on Instagram. So @LeilaHormozi, and you can also find my podcast build with Leila Hormozi, which is like a mix of, it's really just building your life. Building business, building career, building relationships, building health, wealth, all that stuff. So I'd say those are the two places I'm probably the most active.

Michael: My last question for you, my friend. What does it mean to you to be unbroken?

Leila: To admit that you actually are and that is normal.

Michael: Brilliantly said. Thank you so much for being here. Unbroken Nation, thank you for listening, please remember when you share this, you're helping other people transform their trauma to triumph, breakdowns to breakthroughs, and you're helping them become the hero of their own story.

And Until Next Time,

My Friends

Be Unbroken.

I'll See Ya