How to Overcome Alcoholism, Infidelity, and Societal Pressures | with Michael Chu

Michael Unbroken: Michael Chu, super excited to have you on the podcast, brother. You are the founder of champion development. Your story and your journey is phenomenal. When I think about guys like you, and we're going to get deep into your conversation and your journey, dude, you have just really hit rock bottom so many times and yet.Figured out a way to keep going. I'm inspired by that. First and foremost, just as somebody who's constantly on this journey, and I wanted to have you come on this show because I think that so many people see successful entrepreneurs or a high performing people, or people who like quote unquote have that life. And yet behind every closed door is like this tremendous amount of possible pain and hurt and trauma and turmoil and suffering sometimes at your own hands. And you've been able to navigate that and still are. So I'm super excited to have you here. So thank you for being here.

Michael Chu: I'm honored and excited to be here. And, you mentioned like entrepreneur and all those things. Admittedly, when I jump on a show like this, that just feels to me like a title. I should very much feel like I am a man figuring out his own dramas, traumas, and all the other things to just be the best version of myself. And so to remove any titles from it, like that's how I want to show up and share here today.

Michael Unbroken: Yeah, I love that. Let's start at the beginning. What was what was childhood like for you?

Michael Chu: Yeah, it's actually, it's a great place to start because you use the word rock bottom. And when I heard you use the word rock bottom, admittedly, the first thing that came up for me was like, have they been at rock bottom? And the reason I say that is because I almost don't know if I even categorize it as rock bottom because it just felt so freaking normal to me, to live in a life of chaos that like, instead of viewing it as rock bottom, it actually just felt like, isn't that just the way life is that there's drama and chaos? Because to answer your question to childhood Asian upbringing, but grew up in a wealthy Caucasian town. My mom was a teacher there. So that's why we got to live in that area as an adult. Now I can reflect and look back to what I thought was just a high achieving culture. I used to point to all of my achievements as I had a good childhood, I won 12 national karate championships. It went to a great college and, all those things, but in reflection at the cost of what on the other side of all those achievements, I also had a childhood where I didn't get to be myself. There was no space to share my actual concerns and desires. It was like, we never give up. We, once we decide to do something, like if I was having a hard day, it was like, from my karate instructor to my own mom, to my parents and everyone in between, there was a little bit of Suck it up, pair that with alcoholism pair that with emotional demonstration of a lot of stonewalling and yelling and all those things. The best way I could describe it, Michael, to start off his childhood was one thing I thought was successful, but at the cost of my own emotional pain, maturity and development and being able to be in my own.

Michael Unbroken: Very common, right? Especially for children who grow up in homes where parents have expectation of them. And you see this all the time where on this one hand, it's interesting how they're, I always think about if you have kids, you're probably going to screw them up to some capacity. And I think the goal is to not screw them up to the point where you were screwed up, but on this one hand, you have kids who grew up like me, where there's no rules, there's no regulation, there's no parents, there's no figures, there's just me doing what I want, whenever I want to my own proclivities, which was often very dangerous. And on the other hand, you have the hyper controlling, you do what we say, when we say we're going to do it, and on both sides of that coin, which is so fascinating, The thing that you end up with are children with no identity. When you were growing up, when you were facing these moments of needing to have the experience of self, what was happening? Were your parents like literally telling you, you can't be you? Where was it like, do your homework? Don't talk. What was it really like?

Michael Chu: Yeah. In one breath, like the weird part for me that was very confused, still is still at times is very confusing is it felt quote unquote great parenting at the time because it led to a lot of achievements. So like to answer your question, it was a lot of that's not how we do things here. No, you're not going to quit. I started karate when I was three as an example, by eight, 12, 16, I was wanting to quit all the time. And so it's really a confusing thing that I'm still navigating. Cause in one breath, couldn't I look at my upbringing and be like, my mom taught me to not quit. My mom taught me to be disciplined, but there was also a level to what you're describing where it was like a controlling, it was a never honoring. What I was actually feeling, never honoring my own desires. And you said something interesting that controlling this leads to no identity. And I have through my adult years, which I'm sure we'll get to, I have been, I've been, I jokingly call myself a recovering people pleaser where I would be scared to ever share what I actually want or who I actually am because I feared that I wouldn't be loved or I would lose the pack. Because growing up, you said, what was it like? It was, that's not how we do things here. You're going to do this. This is what's expected. Use the word expectations earlier, whether it was spoken or unspoken. There were these expectations that came with them. This fear, if I ever break these expectations, which I think in hindsight, the expectations feel like. Impossible to reach almost perfectionist type of expectations. If I ever don't meet them, I won't be loved. Yeah, I'm going to disappoint a dad who really I only felt loved from at times when I was winning trophies and achieving, he would tell me how proud and then everywhere else in between, I felt disassociated from. And so I only was loved when I was being this perfect child and achieving and succeeding.

Michael Unbroken: Yeah, which is on a long enough timeline, impossible, right? Because cause the thing that happens then and I moved towards achievement in sport because I was like, for the love of God, maybe somebody will care about me. And I became, captain of the football team, captain of the wrestling team. I did multiple different sports, won tons of awards and I would, I dude, I remember this vividly one day there's this girl I have this huge crush on, and I just won the city wrestling tournament beat like six schools. It's an all day event, like I was number one in the entire city. I go and I show my grandmother the metal, right? Cause my grandmother raised me at this point in my life, ‘cause my mom was in rehab and she just could give two shits about it. So again, that thing of not having the care of the control. I go to school, such a ridiculous story. I go to school and there's this girl I have a crush on and I'm like, I show her the metal and I'm like, this will definitely make her want to hang out. And nothing, of course, because duh.

Michael Chu: The thing that impressed teenage girls, a metal.

Michael Unbroken: Yeah, exactly. You're like, Oh, you want a wrestling tournament? Great. But the thing that, that we believe that is going to bring us value in childhood is achievement or lack thereof. And what's really interesting is like that delicate balance of trying to figure out who you are with all those pressures on you and getting to the point where if you're paying attention, which generally doesn't come until much later, you're like, wait a second, these things don't matter. And so I'm really curious like growing up with that, you mentioned this relationship with both your mother and your father were both of them pushing you towards these expectations. Was it one more than the other?

Michael Chu: Yeah. So to answer that question directly, the household I grew up in very much felt like mom had high standards and she was the disciplinarian and she was the one like present, physically active and parenting. And my dad, I think I had a an interesting strain or daddy issues cause he was physically there, but it felt like he was never mentally or emotionally there. Either a, because of alcoholism. So one moment he feels like he's mentally there. And the other time, all of a sudden one other beer takes him to a buzz or takes him to drunk and now he doesn't feel like he's mentally there. But then on top of that, emotionally, and my dad passed two years ago, God bless him, but emotionally, he just did not have the emotional tools or the emotional capacity to really be in the room. So it was my mom setting the high standards and expectations. Doing what she believed was her absolute best. And then it was my dad that was I was craving his love because he was so mentally and emotionally not there that I was taking what my mom said would meet with equal love. And I was hyper trying to create that. ‘Cause if I achieved all these things, finally, my dad would see me. My dad would approve of me. My dad would love it. So that was the dynamic there.

Michael Unbroken: Yeah, which again, impossible expectations, right? What comes to mind here, my mother was an alcoholic and so was my grandmother and so was my stepdad and so was every person in my ether. My uncle was, my aunt was, my cousins were, I got drunk for the first time when I was 13 years old. Alcohol is just this thing that I watched take and take. And there were moments where you early on, I was so incredibly embarrassed of my family. Especially my mother, she would show up. I won this tournament. I think I was in eighth grade. I won this wrestling tournament and she was completely wasted, passed out, drunk in the bleachers. And I'm standing on the podium, getting my award as the ambulance is coming in to take her out of the auditorium. And I remember being that this young kid trying to create what I wanted to. And this was that sport at the time, but trying to create and go and really be competing and be great at something. And it was like, every time I touched it, it was taken away from me. And what I learned to resent her and women and people with control issues. And that turned into this huge thing where my walls were gigantic. Like you couldn't get in if I let you, and I'm wondering what was it like for you watching this alcoholism from your father? What were the experiences that were taking place for you in relation to him? And then what were you just thinking in general as you're like witnessing this man who's supposed to be the person rearing you into the world, having your back showing you manhood and leadership, like succumb to this poison this disease, this addiction?

Michael Chu: Yeah. I don't know if I was consciously thinking anything at the time, other than I want to make my parents proud or even more I don't want to disappoint them, but here's what was happening, even if I wasn't conscious to it, what was happening, during that time is I do believe subconsciously, I was trying to fit in with the family. And I was, I think I was modeling 2 very unhealthy behaviors. I got started getting drunk for the 1st time with older cousins as early as 12 years old. And basically binge drank for the next 3 years. 12 to 22, 32 next two and a half decades after that. And you were mentioning earlier how the, like these expectations can be impossible expectations to me. I think the way I dealt with the fact that those expectations were actually impossible to me. I dealt with those unrealistic expectations by. Disassociating disappearing into my own world. And one of those ways of doing that was through blacking out. And like alcohol was the excuse of why I can act like a fuckhead, right? Why I can be destructive, right? Why I can be outside of my own morals and values. But then you pair that number two with the fact that a Asian culture. Naturally has a little bit of the man is the superior and the woman's inferior, but then I'm not getting that masculine love and validation. I'm just getting clear recently, Michael, that I think what started to develop at that age is that I started to see women as this conquest to validate that I was loved. And never really owned a mature masculine identity because I didn't see that from my own dad. So to hopefully earn his love, I tried to be on a conquest to sleep with a lot of women, but at the cost of my own integrity, where it started to lead to cheating. Affairs, like all these things. So to answer your question about what started to develop as I'm not receiving my dad's love is I think (a) really sick drinking habit and then (b) a poor relationship to actual intimacy and connection and respect for women.

Michael Unbroken: Yeah. It's interesting, Michaels. I can look at that and I go, yeah, I could have saw that coming. You know what I mean?

Michael Chu: Now, I bet at 12 years old, I was like, please, daddy. Love.

Michael Unbroken: Yeah, for sure. No, same dude. Same. And for me, like my measurement at that age of trying to understand manhood came from, hip hop and movies. And so the conquest, which and this is, I want to say this, cause I know a lot of women listen to this show a lot, thousands and thousands every single week. When you are boys, I'll speak for myself, being a boy growing up in the environment that I grew up in measuring myself against men who I had absolutely no relation to in any capacity other than that, through media, I was taught that if you want to be a man, sleep with lots of women, make a lot of money, have a cool car. And dude, I became a master at it. And one of the downsides of mastery over something so destructive that it destructs. And destroys and completely evaporates any level of intimacy in your life, any level of trust, any level of vulnerability. And then you add in all the alcohol and the drugs and the crazy party nights, it's a wonder I'm alive today. And so I'm wondering looking at this and creating that level of, here's, what's so interesting. This came to mind just now. The everything that you taught was like, have been taught is don't quit. Don't give up your conquest is women and alcohol. And you're like, okay, don't quit. Don't give up how much of this might be the weirdest question I've ever asked, but like how much of the influence of your mother and the influence of your father led down this path to be like, I have to conquer all of this chaos.

Michael Chu: It's a great question. In one breath, I think I was addicted to the chaos because that's what my nervous system was used to. I think if I'm hearing you correctly, how much do I think that upbringing also caused me to be like, I have to conquer this chaos? Is that the question?

Michael Unbroken: Yeah, exactly.

Michael Chu: It took a level of awareness to even understand what the hell the chaos was. Once I understood what the chaos was, because for context, through all of my twenties, if you had asked me what I was feeling here's my most common answer to you, I would say feelings aren't fucking real. I would say things to you like, I'm not stressed. I just have a lot going on. I would say things to you like you're telling me your emotions are what's stopping you. You get to decide how you I thought it was all here. I thought emotions were bullshit. I thought they were soft. I thought they were woo and I thought they were made up, but it's largely just because I was never put in a safe environment to actually feel feelings. So I'm giving context to that because before all that, I didn't think there was anything to conquer. I thought I just had to achieve more. That's what I had to conquer, achieving more. But then in my early thirties, I'm at this low point in my life on the verge of divorce, having an affair, drinking too much. I had made millions of dollars and I was on a bathroom floor, right? Crying, crippled anxiety in my stomach, unable to get myself to go to work. And at that point, I thought I knew how to win. Through all of my old personal growth things, which was all mainly mindset stuff, right? Where the head's not connected to the heart, the mind's not connected to the body. And I could not get myself out of that low point with just the personal growth stuff up here. And that's when I got introduced to somatic coaching. That's when I got introduced to like actually feeling my feelings from that day forward. Michael, to answer your question, I've now been on this half a decade, six year conquest to heal and solve my own personal traumas. But I'm also on this like conquest to heal that trauma for generations. I'm a dad of two girls and heal that trauma for like layers of ancestors and everything like that. So, I've never been asked that question before. So, this is my first time putting words to it. Yeah, I do think that achieve and succeed and never give up. Has now started to be used for good. Once I got aware of where my own bullshit and traumas were, and I want to conquer like all of those traumas, whatever you want to call them, all of those low points, so I'm not sure if that answered your question, but that's what feels true to me in the first time being asked that.

Michael Unbroken: Yeah, for sure. It's just in my head. I think that the brainwashing that we go through in childhood creates who we become in our adulthood. If you're brainwashed to go and be the best, even at the worst thing possible, you will find a way to do.

Michael Chu: And we're not really quickly.

Michael Unbroken: Please.

Michael Chu: I took pride in being the best drinker, like the destructive things, right? Whether it was women, whether it was drinking, I also had never been asked that before. So I appreciate the questions. Yeah, that conquer and be the best and never give up. I look back now, even as I think and reflect on some of these questions, and I'm like, ashamed of the pain and the toxic like environment I probably created for friends were like, we're going to finish this 30 pack between me and you right now. Don't be a bitch or like whatever or like how many beer pong games can I win? Even if it leads to us being blackout or sick or destroying property or destroying relationships, but there was one mission whenever I was doing something, even if it was bad things, and that's, I'm not going to quit and I'm going to be the best at it. And so thank you for asking that, because I never really put words to that.

Michael Unbroken: For sure. That's why to me growing up being invisible. Like no matter how many awards I won, no, how many, no matter how many times I was the best at the thing, no matter how many times I was number one at anything, no one saw me. And so I was like, I'm going to do whatever it takes to be seen. And good kids do not get seen. They just don't. And I was like, okay, cool, you're going to see me. Tons of fights, getting kicked out of multiple high school, getting kicked off the wrestling team, even though I was amazing at it, like I would have likely been a state champion had I not kept getting in trouble, got kicked off the football team, kicked off the baseball team, stopped getting invited to parties, eventually kicked out of high school so many times that I got expelled, right? And like you play that game and it's like you win these games, unbelievably painful prizes. And some of those prizes, unfortunately are herald heralded in our society as success, right? You're like, man, I had all these girls and all this money, but I have nothing to show for it. And I want to come back to that. So, I definitely want to talk about 30 and the somatic work and all that, but we got to step back a little bit more. Cause I think this is such an important thing. I do not want to over overshadow by any capacity. Addiction is something that isn't always what you think it is. And what I mean by that is we often move to addiction for coping mechanisms, but the thing for high performers is that they can be addicted And yet still go and win championships.

Michael Chu: It's crazy.

Michael Unbroken: And you talked about growing up playing karate. Was it 12 national championships? How the fuck do you do that?

Michael Chu: Yeah. One identity is I go hard at whatever I'm doing. And so here I am in one world addicted to being the best and winning. And so I'm acting fine there, but then. The only way I would get relief from this impossible expectation that you're describing, the only way I could get relief from that was then going to my own dark side, right? And escaping that perfect expectation world through disassociation with alcohol, and doing all those things. So as far as like, how did I do it? I could play the act. I could play the game Monday through Friday, so to speak. Friday night, Saturday night. Like I had a level of discipline where I'm not going to drink Monday through it. So I was never.

Michael Unbroken: Justification, right?

Michael Chu: Yeah, I was never the addict that couldn't stop. I was never the addict that like needed the thing every day. I was the addict that when I needed the thing though, I only knew one extreme of using the thing. If it was alcohol, it was never like, let's just have three glasses of wine at dinner, it would turn into three bottles of wine. It would never be like, let's just have a beer or two, right? I only knew one level of using that was the type of addict that I was around those things is that I could look controlled Monday through Thursday, Monday through Friday, whatever it is, but when it was my opportunity or invitation to disconnect. I went hard on that thing as well. So, I only knew one identity and that's go hard as fuck.

Michael Unbroken: When you were growing up and martial arts are incredible because they teach you so much discipline. And I talk about martial arts on this show a lot. ‘Cause growing up wrestling, that's a martial art doing some karate and then Muay Thai in my adulthood. In fact, I even moved to Thailand at one point so I could practice with the Thais and it's taught me tremendous amount of discipline through suffering, through pain, and that's not necessarily a bad thing. By the way, and at such a young age though, there, there's this pressure to perform, right? But did you, were there benefits? Did you pull values out of martial arts?

Michael Chu: 1000%. I will never, it's hard for me to even. It's not hard for me to have these conversations. It's hard for me to talk about it. Like it's only negative because my parents, my upbringing, martial arts, they gave me a lot of great tools that are foundational for success, right? External success. I learned to be disciplined. I learned to be committed. I learned to not quit. I learned to focus on getting a little bit better all the time. I learned to focus on competing with yourself before you compete with others, all of those things. And I will always be grateful for those things in my life. But whenever I talk about some of the, if you want to call them negatives of that environment, it was as a six year old, I could be crying at a karate school and, or a nine year old, and I could be told to stop crying. I could be told to, in our karate school, it's if you felt like you were out of line, you would be told to do knuckle pushups on a hardwood floor, right? You might get hit with a bamboo stick. And so that type of upbringing, while it gave me all of these positives, there's one thing I point to that is the thing that was most challenging about it in looking back, and that was, I never was allowed to actually have my own human experience and if as early as three and six and seven and eight, you're shoving down, you're shoving down embarrassment. You're shoving down, I don't feel like I'm good enough. If you're shoving down shame, embarrassment, guilt, fear, whatever the things are, Michael, we both have probably heard versions of quotes like what you resist persists until it expands. And then one day explodes. So because I was always in an environment where don't cry, stop it. So toughen up, whatever. Any emotion I experienced, I never developed the muscle of how to have those feelings. So what did I do? I shoved them all down and they only got released in one of two ways or one of two places, absolute destruction while drunk was like my escape to be like, if feeling the things to the point where, I have times where I threatened to kill my own sister. I had times where I've tried to fight my entire family. And we can unpack any and all, like there's so much there to that. Or the other way it would get released is through out of integrity, infidelity, cheating, dominance with women, et cetera, to the point where it all just exploded and I essentially turn my entire life upside down at about 32, 33 years old.

Michael Unbroken: Yeah. When I think about this, it's, and you said something leading off the show where you're recovering people pleaser and I'm like, it's beyond that. And I'm not going to label you by the way, but understanding a lot of this narrative and journey for myself, I'm like, dude, recovering people pleaser is the beginning of it. It's massive codependency, massive lack of self, here's what's so crazy. This is me framing my own experience through the lens of a reflection here. By the time I was 25, I'd made a million dollars. Nobody 25 years old was as successful as I was, where I came from. And I had a plethora of women and I had a ton of clothes and an 80, 000 car, but my brothers wouldn't talk to me. And I was in crippling debt, by the way. And I was 350 pounds, not to mention all the other chaos of my life.

Michael Chu: I've heard you share that before.

Michael Unbroken: And I've shared that a bazillion times, but I've never shared what I'm about to say. I did not believe in myself at all. So not at all, not one fucking bit. And it is so crazy how even more so you talked about like these two spectrums, the blackout drunk, and then the women, and you're like, you're seeking like for the love of God, someone see me. And that was my experience as I'm sitting here so deeply in this chaos I had created, but I did not believe in myself. At all, I could go make millions of dollars. I could hook up with any girl I wanted to. I could go and create anything I wanted out of thin air, except self belief.

Michael Chu: Man. First, I appreciate you sharing that. And as I hear that something really hit me because I don't know, for me, it was that I would achieve all those things. Same thing, bought a house at 25 years old, making all this money and blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. I don't know if it's that I would have felt like I lacked self-belief as I achieved all those things and everybody be like, you look like it, you had it all together for me, I think the more I achieved. I felt like I deeply lacked any sort of self-identity or self-love. And to relate to your part of your story, if you had asked me if I was confident at that time, or if I believed that, yeah, I think I would have said yes, but did I think I loved myself or loved life or love those around me? No, I was just a machine going through the world at all costs, which led to this really scary thing that when I finally was like, I don't want to be seen just for my achievements anymore. Am I loved for just who I am? That shit felt so scary to start to just be honest. With the world, honest with relationships, honest with people that I don't know, Michael, if I it's weird. It's one of those things that I don't know if I could ever categorize myself as suicidal. And yet I remember this three-year period where I started to get real with myself that I don't know if I had self-love despite all these accolades, it felt so scary to know if I'd be loved in the world for just who I am, that I would daydream on a regular basis about jumping off my sixth floor balcony. I would daydream regularly about driving my car into oncoming traffic, and it would just feel so much safer and easier. And so I wanted to reflect that point about lack of self-belief and self-confidence for me, almost same story, but it felt like there was a deep, which probably is self-belief and confidence that I'm loved, belief and confidence that I'm worth it, belief and confidence that I am enough, but it felt like a lack of self-love.

Michael Unbroken: Yeah, I think it's impossible to love yourself if you're like deeply hurting other people, and that's what infidelity, that's what cheating is and I've done it, and I've shared that openly here because it was something in my life that again, man, that narrative, this idea, not only because it's twofold, right? And I want to walk into this, I'm going to walk into this very dark territory with you for a minute. I think it's really important. There's this really interesting juxtaposition of this ideal that as men, we show our power, our dominance, our ability to conquer by having, drones of women and at the other side of it completely lacking any and all intimacy and yet continually chasing it by trying to fill it with more women. And it is one of those things that becomes this Ouroboros. It is a self-eating, self-maintaining system where it's I feel less about myself. I need more. I feel less about myself. I need more. And the next thing, and this was my experience, I was in a relationship with, and this woman, obviously I've apologized to her and I've done my work. And I don't think, I don't even know if I'm owed forgiveness for this necessarily, but a six year relationship with this person and I must have cheated on her a hundred times and every single time what it was and look, and you can be like, Oh, you were 25. It's not that big of a deal and bullshit bullshit. But what it was, and especially now as a man looking back at this 15 years ago, almost, and 14 years ago and sitting in and looking at it, dude, I was just trying to fill that gap of having no mother, of having no father, of being invisible. And I would take any person at any time under any capacity until I came. And then on the backside, I'd feel like shit.

Michael Chu: I relate to, yeah I love the part you said until I came and then I felt like shit. Because of that pursuit, whether it was through strip clubs, whether it was through paying for sex, whether it was seeking out sex, but you said some things that were interesting of a lot of women, but also you, I think you use the word dominance in there somewhere. I think for me growing up as an Asian and an all Caucasian area, I remember like one of the most shameful moments of my childhood with, there's a bunch of guy friends over my house. We're having a sleepover and eight and 10 year old boys do, they start learning their own bodies. And I remember they were, we were comparing penis sizes. And one kid was like, my penis goes past like his belly button or like whatever. And I remember feeling like the shame, like mine doesn't go right that far, but I'm pointing that out. It's still a little vulnerable. I feel like for me to even, I just got clear. I just remembered that story this January, but what that, did inside of me is like, it created this if I can't get women, so to speak through just who I am, because again, minority, I remember in childhood as well when kids are all pairing each other up there, with this guy's dating, this girl, this guy's dating, all of like our friend circles, they decided that I was going to pair up with this one other girl who was the one other Asian girl in the school, like that's her girlfriend, like they're assigning her for me. She happened to be. Adopted by a Caucasian family, but yet that's who you're supposed to date. So it felt like you created this deep insecurity that like, if I can't get women for who I am, then I'm going to pay for it. I'm going to dominate. I'm like, just became this, like you mentioned like just this unhealthy relationship lacking intimacy, but yet, yeah, it looks like you're getting all right. I realized that the last thing I want to say to that is that moment, that point you said until I came and then I felt like shit, anytime I would pursue validation through women like that, I remember for the next 12, 24, 48, 72 hours after getting it in that nature, just like walking around with so much like shame and guilt in one sense, but then like right afterwards needing it again, 72 hours later. And it was such an unhealthy back and forth internally trying to battle that because it was so unhealed here.

Michael Unbroken: How did you, tell me about marriage? How old were you when you got married and why did you get married?

Michael Chu: I started laughing the minute you said that you said, tell me about marriage because I'll answer your actual question. Somatic therapist about my relationship with marriage. Do I actually ever want to get married again? And if I was to ever get married or propose, I promised myself and I promised my partner that I would only ever propose if it felt like it was in complete integrity and complete alignment, but not driven by any external pressure or forces, the reason I started to laugh somatic therapist practice where I was getting into my body and the coach, the therapist said, okay, now that in your body. What's the first thing that comes to your heart and mind when you hear the word marriage? And immediately I blurted out a black fucking hole.

Michael Unbroken: Yeah.

Michael Chu: So that's my relationship. That was my relationship with marriage. So to answer your question I got married at 31, 32-ish. I probably got engaged 29, 30 and you asked, why did I get married? I got married, I would say for. Two to three reasons. That's what you're supposed to do when you turn 30 years old, right? Like it's this age expectation of what's supposed to be happening in your life. So you want to talk about age expectation or social pressure. And then the second reason familial societal pressure, right? Parents starting to say, when am I, when are we going to get grandkids? And so once again, wanting to make my parents happy, wanting to make my family proud, wanting to be loved. I got to do my part. I got to be the good boy. I got good grades. I accomplished in sports. I was always doing the thing. I was always checking the box that I thought made me the good son, the good boy. Even if it wasn't in alignment or an integrity with what I actually wanted. But at that age of my life, I didn't even know how to get attuned to what I actually even wanted. That's why and how I got married.

Michael Unbroken: Yeah. And that's interesting because it's like in this journey, there's so much social pressure about this idea of the forever person. And you have these relationships and these friendships and all you ever see now, and especially on social is people aren't good enough and they don't matter. And I think, dude, I am so glad social media isn't what it is now when I was going through all this 14, 15 years ago. Because I don't know if I would have been able to come out of the black hole, to be honest with you, because it's so chaotic, just navigating all of the pressures of identity and letting go of codependency and healing different addictions and then to have that reinforced by society that says, Nobody's good enough, no matter what, unless they hit all of these standards and all of these things about red pill in terms of being a man, and then that's compounded by if you're not flying private every single day, you're a piece of shit and it's dude, I don't, I just, this is why I want to do this show in the hope that people will hear the truth of this journey and how hard it is because it's even more difficult now than ever before. And I would argue we even have more access to information. Now there, there's these moments in our journeys where for lack of a better way to phrase it, it's like that coming to Jesus, you're standing in really your own destruction. I wrote in my book when I realized what I'd done in my life, it was standing in the house that I had burned down. That's how it felt. I lost everything and beyond lost everything because of my decisions. I had to ostracize myself and it was a conscientious choice where at 29 years old, packed up everything I owned into a rental car with 500 in my pocket. I you go from a couple hundred grand a year to nothing. And I drove this rental car from Indiana to Portland, Oregon. So, I could go work with this. Unbelievable trauma therapist, and I left it all behind because I was like, dude, I cannot do this again. I can't burn this down again. I cannot fathom another deceit. Another lie. Another. My brother is telling me to go fuck myself. Another failed business. Another night of drinking. Another, that's another that. And I made a decision because I just could not face it again. I'm curious what happened, right? 30 years old, not yet married, obviously dealing with some massive addiction issues between alcohol and women. I'd be willing to bet you were probably a workaholic, even though you haven't used those words yet.

Michael Chu: And let's throw it in the mix. I was a workaholic.

Michael Unbroken: Trust me. I know people are cut from my cloth, brother. Trust me. And I'm curious where did the baseball bat to the face moment come? Where did the okay, Michael, dude, I'm real, this is bad. Cause here's what I think is interesting. And I know I'm on a bit of a diatribe, but I want to really parse this out. You're fucking your life up

Michael Chu: So fucking crazy. It's you're watching yourself in a movie, do it. And you can't stop. So your question was, what was the baseball bat to the face type of moment?

Michael Unbroken: Yeah, where's the moment where you're like, I know I'm fucking this up and I just can't do it anymore.

Michael Chu: So, I walked down the aisle. You asked to bring it back to that with marriage. And I remember now that I like know what it feels like to be in my own body. I'm able to look back at that day and I remember feeling like I was walking down the aisle like an actor in a movie. Like I was just playing a role, right? And so I'm bringing it back to that point because I think the baseball bat to the head moment builds from there. So here I am walking down the aisle to be the perfect son to continue looking like the perfect human with the seven-figure business or the great relationship and checking all the boxes at the certain ages that you're supposed to almost living like a double life. In one breath, I look like this to everybody else, knowing that I'm over here doing these other things here, drinking, et cetera. And so here this marriage happens and I'm now knee deep in an affair and the baseball bat to the moment, the baseball bat to the face moment was a compilation of a couple of things. In one breath, I'm trying to figure out, cause the reason I use the word people pleaser is I was terrified of giving people my truth. If it meant losing love, like the abandonment of love felt like death to me in my nervous system at that time. So, I'd rather manipulate, lie, omit the truth, and all those things. And so here I am trying to figure out how to get out of this marriage to be in this other relationship and then but terrified to tell the truth, right?

Michael Unbroken: And how long have you been married at that point?

Michael Chu: If there was happening before the marriage even happened.

Michael Unbroken: Yeah. Right.

Michael Chu: And so, this is the first time I've ever shared this next piece before ever. And obviously what comes after marriage in the stereotypical, like timeline? Now you're supposed to start having kids and I'm still trying to figure out how to get out of this marriage without feeling like I'm going to die. Like my whole family's going to be ashamed of me. I'm going to lose love. My whole friend circle should mention. I grew up in a hometown of 3000 people. So everybody knows everybody's right. So there's like fear of losing everything. And I felt like I had evidence around me that family members, friends, cousins, et cetera, sometimes when they tried to have kids, it didn't happen right away, right? It sometimes took months. Sometimes there was infertility issues and all those types of things. So in my head, I'm like, okay. I can keep playing this act of trying to get pregnant now while I figure out the courage to get out of this thing. And we conceive on the very first attempt. So now, Michael, I'm in a marriage, having a child while completely out of integrity, alignment, and just not right, not there at all. And so here I am lying to two people. I'm lying about an affair and the affair I'm lying about what I have going on at home. And the baseball bat to the face moment, as I come back from a trip to Japan in this relationship, in this affair, and somehow, some way, something had happened during the trip where she now realizes that, I'm married with a kid back home. And so she confronts me. I'm scared to tell my wife, like the marriage I was in. And that was the baseball bat to the face moment. I'm going to lose this. I don't want to be here. I'm not being honest with anybody. Most importantly, I'm not being honest with myself. I'm living a life where I feel like I'm looking over my shoulder at all times, which is just leading to this crippling anxiety. I felt like at that time in my life, I needed two hour morning routines to just get myself into the day because I would wake up every day with so much anxiety, guilt, and shame, like all over me, but yet I had to get to work and I had to be this disciplined, hard working person. Work, workaholic we were talking about. And that was the baseball bat to the face moment is, I'm going to lose both of them and I then tell my parents that I'm getting a divorce and say, can I come live with you for just a couple of days till I figure out my path? My dad says, yes. I sleep there for the first night and I wake up and I can tell him the feeling of the entire house, which is what my whole childhood was like when my dad's mad about something. The whole family has to deal with it. You can feel it in the household. So I'm like, what the hell's going on? My dad is so ashamed that his perfect oldest son is getting divorced that he can't live with it. So, he starts getting into a fight with my mom. He gets my mom to kick me out of the house. So now I'm losing both worlds here. I don't have a safe space to go home and I'm now in my car. I'm letting my ex and the kid live in the house that I owned. And I'm literally driving around in my car going, I should just kill myself. God doesn't love me. And how could God ever forgive me for any of this? How could I ever forgive me for any of this? And nobody loves me. So that was the baseball bat to the face moment that led to this journey of healing and looking myself in the mirror.

Michael Unbroken: Yeah, dude. Talk about holy shit. And there are people who will hear this and because this is the world we live in. It's people who will hear this and go, yeah, you got what you deserve. You're a fucking liar.

Michael Chu: Totally. I'm the judge will tell me this. I deserved it for sure.

Michael Unbroken: Totally. And I hear this and I go, this is a dude who's so fucked up that he is terrified of love that even if he got the other chick, he would have fucked that up too. And how do I know this? Cause I lived that life and I played that game and playing that game, which is so crazy is there is something innately in you when you are dealing with alcoholic parents, narcissistic, bipolar, manic depressive. God knows what else we can label people. And I'm not labeling your people, but I'm just laying this out and you bear witness to this in childhood and your thought about love as it's in marriages, it's a black fucking hole and you feel no worth except the moments that you're hooking up with people. And this is men and women alike, by the way, don't get this twisted. This is not exclusive to men. And then you are sitting in it, and yet another thing that you have set on fire and you're like, why doesn't anybody love me? The whole thing you're seeking is love. That's it. And people don't understand that unless they've walked in the shoes. Now, here's the hard part, you don't understand it until you do the work. And this becomes a catalyst. You're looking at your life, and now, you're driving around the city. Thinking about taking your own life, trying to probably piece together anything that you can. I would imagine most people probably aren't even talking to you at this point. And so what's next, right? Because I think this is as much as it pains me to say this. And I've interviewed obviously hundreds and hundreds of people over the years. I've sat with Gabor Maté, Caroline Leaf, Mariel Bouquet. The list goes on. Tom Bilyeu, Anthony Trucks, David Meltzer, Amy Porterfield, Jenna Kutcher. Everybody. I've sat with hundreds of people. We all share one common belief. And this is the most uncomfortable belief about the human experience. You got to destroy everything. The pain of your life has to be so fucking unbearably bad that the only thing better is to make your life better. And so I'm wondering what's next.

Michael Chu: To your point earlier, where you said if people listening were like you got what you deserved. I just want to speak to that for a moment. And then what happened from there. What are you what I would say to that and what I've learned is that anytime I'm talking about trauma and or every time like Michael, you were labeling like growing up in a world of alcoholism, of course, this is almost like what would happen. One thing I believe at this current state of my life is that yes, talking about the trauma and naming it and explaining it, all of those explain the behaviors, they don't excuse the behaviors.

Michael Unbroken: Exactly.

Michael Chu: Yeah. So. if someone's listening to us, like you got what you deserve, I'm me pointing to any of the alcoholism, this, that, and the other is not trying to excuse it at all. I've also heard quotes like it might not be your fault. Those things did really happen to you through childhood, but to answer your question about what came next, it might not be your fault, but it is my responsibility and that's what came next is that I had to look metaphorically. I had to look myself in the mirror and you said it really well. You said at this point, you're probably trying to piece everything together. And I'm trying to hold it all together. I'm trying to make sure nobody knows this is what's going on in my world because then they'll never love me. They'll never like me. They would never want to work with me in business. And then I'm going to be alone. And then I would have created the true reality that I feared in my head. And that is nobody loves me. So, what came next is I was recommended to go see a somatic therapist. Now, first of all, I had no idea what the hell somatic even was. And my perception of therapy. Was you were really fucked up. Something's really wrong with you. Again, I grew up in a world of, I had to be the perfect kid for 30 years. I did all of the things that you're supposed to on your checkbox. So, my ego was like, there's no way I'm going to a somatic therapist. And my brain, I was like, how can fill in the blank? How can Tony Robbins help me with this? How can like the world of business personal growth that I was used to? That's what I wanted to lean on. But nonetheless, I walked through the doors of the somatic therapist office and it didn't happen overnight, but session after session, I was starting to be revealed to and trained on the ability to actually feel my own feelings.

Michael Unbroken: Which is terrifying.

Michael Chu: When you've never done it before for 34 years and you've stacked everything from being four years old, told not to cry for the next 30 years, it felt terrifying. I would have rather death at times. And not only did it feel terrifying, I felt inadequate. Like, how do I do this? Like I wanted to fix it all right here in my head, but I going back to the early parts of my story, I'm the type of person that once I decide to do something, I become obsessed with it. I only know one speed. So instead of going to one session a week, or one session every other week, or one session a month, I started going to two sessions a week. To three, sometimes four sessions a week. My therapist now, I still see her today. She jokes. She'd be like, after about a couple of weeks of seeing me, she would, I would think, Hey Tess, I need to schedule an hour session. He would block off the rest of the day. He would, ‘cause I would pay per hour and on the clock.

Michael Unbroken: I would, I only laugh. I only laugh because I did the same thing, dude. When I moved. I moved to Oregon and dude, I was doing EMDR on Mondays, CBT on Tuesdays, men's group on Wednesdays, AA or NA or SA on Thursdays and Saturdays. On Fridays, I was going to do Reiki or like body work or somatic work. ‘Cause I was like, if I can fuck up that, this is so crazy. I've never heard anybody as intense as I am on this, but I have the same thing. I was like, dude, you know what? If I can build a business and I can go hook up with all these people and I can have all this bullshit success over here, I can fix this.

Michael Chu: I can do this.

Michael Unbroken: I can do this. And if I'm a, it's expensive, be it's time consuming. See, it's fucking incredibly difficult, but man, I relate to that. So it, to me, it's a very much a go big or go home mentality. And you know what? You doing that, even though it's difficult, it destroys the bank account. It destroys your time. It destroys everything, but it gives you your life, man.

Michael Chu: I would do it all over again. It gives you, you said it perfectly. It gives you your entire life back. And if anyone's listening to that and what the hell does that even mean? When I say it gives you your life back. I can now say I truly know what it feels like to experience peace in my heart. Doesn't mean I don't have hard moments. Doesn't mean I don't still have shit happen, but I also know what it truly feels like to be able to love others and love myself. I know what it feels like to regulate my own nervous system. I know what it feels like to show up. For myself, how I need it, whether it's communicating boundaries, that's something I didn't know how to do. It felt so scary. The first time I ever wanted to give a boundary to my family member friends. Hey, I'm only going to come for three days and instead of entire week, that sounds like such an easy thing to do for most people, not me. That shit felt so terrifying. And so I love how you put it. It gives you your entire life back. So yeah, that's what happened after the baseball bat moment is I just attacked all the things that I needed to learn and all the things I needed to heal.

Michael Unbroken: Yeah. And look, and I'll say this too, ‘cause this is important. I did it on credit cards. I did it on borrowed money ‘cause I destroyed my business. There's a post December 14 2013, something like that on Facebook where I was like, can somebody give me 150 so I can go to therapy this week? Publicly. I was like, dude, I'll do anything. I would do anything because here's what, so this is the thing that sucks, man. Like people can look at your life and go, you got it figured out, man. You got all the girls and the cars and the money and the accolades and your fit and blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. And it's but you want to put a gun in your mouth every second of the day. And that's what's so difficult about this journey is that those things don't make you whole that thing about the trophies and the ribbons and the awards and being in the magazine or being on the TV show or any like even to this day, man, like that shit means nothing to me. It's a part of the process of the conversation that I'm opening and helping people. But man, if I can't go look in that mirror and like myself, I shut all this down. Dude, I will walk away from this. I will take my ass, even though I still do go to therapy and coaching. Like I will go deeper, and there's new levels to this, TD Jake's amazing preacher says new levels, new devils. And as you go deeper into this journey and you reflect more, whether it's the somatic work of the CBT or the MDR, a coach like me or you read my book or listen to this podcast, I can tell you, and then I'm speaking to the audience cause you know this, I can tell you with 100 percent certainty and honesty, I still got shit. I still have to do the work. I still have an intimacy. These moments where I'm like, do I deserve this? When I had a bestselling book, do I really get this? When the podcast is go to number one, I'm like, who am I? There's no question that the work does not stop. And so I think it's really important to just anchor against that for a moment and really tell people the truth. We're still doing the work, man. Once in, I hate to say this cause it's so fucking cliche, but like once an addict, always an addict, man. But it's because it's embedded in our body, it's embedded in our ecology. It's better in our social systems. It's embedded in our family, in our genealogy, in our DNA. I promise you, your dad was not the first addict in your family.

Michael Chu: Most definitely not.

Michael Unbroken: And so same for me, like my mom, my stepdad. They weren't the first addicts in their family, but the buck stops with me. And that's the game, right? And you've gotta get to that place. You've gotta make a decision and you've gotta, will be willing to put it all on the line. I'm curious now, we went on a quite the journey here today, but what's life like today? What's life actually like today?

Michael Chu: Yeah. I want to answer that question and speak to something you shared as well. I heard a coach share one time that the work never stops. Like you said, so how do you measure if you're making progress? If the work never stops, and this was a really like for me being an achievement driven person, this was really helpful for me to hear. They said the work itself never stops, but the progress that you know, you're making is that the time between dramas. Lengthens. So instead of getting into a fight every week, you're not getting into a fight every month and then every quarter and then every year and then maybe once every five years. So, the time between dramas lengthens and the depth or intensity in dramas morton's, right. So in other words, you're getting into a fight once a year now, instead of once a day. And even when you get into a fight, it doesn't turn into this, like throwing bottles across the wall and yelling vulgar things that your partner and threatening to leave, you learn how to communicate with tools. And so the time between dramas lengthens and the time between intensity in the drama shortens and that's been a way for me to understand that the work will never stop, but I can give myself ways to identify look how much progress I'm making, right? Just going to the gym. We know we have to work out to the day we die. If we want to stay in good shape, there's emotional health going on here as well. And if we keep doing that work. So I just wanted to speak to that and then answer what life looks like today. Piggybacking the two together, as far as the work never stops this year for me has actually been about working on my relationships with men now, right? Not women, not intimacy. And I went into the year my fiance said to me, she said, Mike, you don't really have any friends. I was like, what the hell are you talking about? Look at all these networks I'm in and masterminds. Yeah. And then she pulls up her text. She's this is friendship, bantering all day with each other, sending each other memes, able to show up at the person's house whenever you want. And when she said that, I said, wow, you're right. I don't have friends. Like I did when I was in middle school, I have mentors. I have masterminds. I have transactional friends, but I don't have that person. I could be like driving down the road. Be like, Hey, I'm in the area. I'm swinging by. And why I'm sharing this is like where life is today. I realized, you're right. And then I explored why I didn't have friends and it came down to one thing. I didn't trust men. Men are always going to hurt you. Men are always going to look out for themselves. Whether it was a childhood friend sleeping with my girlfriend, who was supposed to be my best friend and like all these things, I didn't trust men. And so, I went into this year with one commitment and that is to heal all the places that I've lost trust with men. And it's been really beautiful this year so far, Michael. I enthusiastically spend time with friends. Now I feel like I'm not roaming this earth solo, like a lone wolf anymore. I have friendships, like male friendships as one piece. What came unexpectedly from that is I have this deeply trusting and loving connecting relationship with my dad now, and he died two years ago because I started to trust. I learned, I started to learn to trust and see him as well. And the last thing that led to about like where life is at today is that I've gone to church most Sundays for 20 to 40 years, but by learning to heal my relationship with trusting men, for the first time in 40 years in Tulum, just six weeks ago, almost, I completely experienced in my heart and my body for the first time, what it felt like to trust, love, believe in, and surrender to God. And so those have been the relationships with men that I've been enveloping. I own the role of dad, right? Because I never wanted to be a dad because I thought I was going to fuck it up and, do all the things like I saw with my, I am absolutely in love with my two daughters. I'm absolutely in love with the role of dad. I'm working right now on fully owning the role of provider, mentally, financially, emotionally in my current engagement, my, my relationship with my fiance business, I got amazing businesses, but more importantly I feel deeply driven by purpose in my own life to share my darkness, to share my journey in such a way that inspires other driven, successful men to walk themselves home from their head, but more importantly, get back into their heart to be the type of person that they actually love themselves, don't hate themselves and live a life of fulfillment and peace. Hopefully that answers your question of what life is like. I could go on and on, but it might just sound like bragging, but I'm experiencing peace and happiness.

Michael Unbroken: Yeah, man, that's beautiful. And the reason I asked you that question is because, I want to show people the journey. Sitting in the darkness and having these hard conversations is a human experience, especially, as two guys sitting here having very similar, but very different backgrounds. And I think about it more. So, it's we're for lack of a better way to phrase it. Like we're just average guys. We're just dudes out here running our businesses, trying to take care of the people around us. And we got shit. And even through all of the chaos, if you make a decision and you choose to dedicate, like really dedicate your energy and your time and your effort and stop blaming the world. ‘Cause dude, I blamed everybody. It was everybody's fault. I blame the women for letting me sleep with them. I blame my, I blame the guy who sold me the car for, selling me an 80,000 car. Like I blamed, I blamed everybody and then I blamed me. And that accountability, that culpability created this massive shift in my life. And today life's very beautiful. I get to be of service. I get to be connected with an amazing group of friends. I get to have a deeper level of trust and intimacy and relationships. And not that's again, new levels, new devils. It's not that like these things aren't exposed and continually come up as I go. And the thing that I really want people to hold onto, and the reason why we painted such a picture of the struggle is because when I look at your life today, not only of how you're in service to others, but to yourself, it's that's possible, man. That's possible. We're not saying it's easy. None of this is easy, today, it's not easy tomorrow. It won't be easy, but man, it feels good to be alive. It feels good to be in control. It feels good to be in, in our bodies and having the somatic experience. And ultimately, I don't know for you, but the word I always come to is peace. Like I just feel more peaceful in your heart because when you're, when you will have a life that is a codependent life, that is full of addiction. And dude, we're going to have another conversation to go through this addiction healing journey. We just filled up an hour like that, but the healing in that process, you watch the panic attacks go away. You watch the anxiety go away. You watch all of the chaos dissipate, and then you come closer to self, closer to others, closer to family, closer to friends, but ultimately you love yourself. And we're going to have you back because I want to go through and really create a second part of this conversation around that whole healing journey, but with where you're at today, just, I have nothing but gratitude and pride for you. My friend, before I ask you my last question, where can everybody find you?

Michael Chu: Yeah. Instagram, I guess would be the easiest place for a lot of people. A business card @championdevelopment, you'll see the type of work that we do, but we believe we take the most unique approach to business growth. You think you're in it for success, but we actually start with your head and your heart and your physical, mental, and emotional health that leads to expansion in all the other areas of your life, health, wealth, and happiness. And Champion Development on Instagram would be a great place to check us out.

Michael Unbroken: Amazing. And guys, remember, go to thinkunbrokenpodcast.com. Look up this episode of Michael's conversation with me today and check the show notes for that and more. My last question for you, my friend, what does it mean to you to be unbroken?

Michael Chu: Yeah. You mentioned that question at the beginning two things, one, to be unbroken is to be on the continuous path to identify what I think the world calls today triggers and traumas. Triggers and traumas aren't bad things. They just reveal to us where we aren't free, where we aren't experiencing full peace and those traumas and triggers are there to just wake us up because if we're willing to heal them and willing to do the work, we get to be unbroken. And unbroken is finding beauty in all that trauma. I think on your shows, you've referenced Kintsugi before and the actual beauty and the art of taking brokenness and turning it into something beautiful. And so, for me, Unbroken is taking all the things that happened to you, not as excuses, just as explanations, they might've happened to you. But we're still responsible for creating the peace and the happiness and the love that we want to be. And we want to give to the world.

Michael Unbroken: Love that. Thank you so much for being here, my friend, Unbroken Nation, thank you for listening. Please remember, especially today, if this hit home for you, share it with someone in your life because you can help others transform their trauma to triumph breakdowns to breakthroughs. And just like you help them become the hero of their own story.

Until Next Time, My Friends.

Unbroken. I'll See Ya.

Michael Chu: Thanks for having me.