How to Transform Your Health After Trauma with Gregory Damian

 Michael: Gregory Damian, welcome to the show my friend. You are the author of ABS at 60, how are you today?

Gregory:  I'm doing well, Michael. Thank you for asking and it's great to be here.

Michael: Yeah, I'm very excited. You know, I wanted to have you on the show for a lot of reasons, but predominantly because I think that health is such an important part of the human experience and the mental health journey, the physical health is such an important part of that. And oddly, I was thinking about that this, in preparation for our conversation today. We live in probably arguably the safest time in history the most convenient time in history and the most food rich time in history, especially if you are in the United States and yet we are the unhealthiest in history.

Gregory: Nutrition deficient. We have a surplus of calories and a deficiency or a desert of actual nutrition because we're eating all of the wrong things, basically.

Michael: Yeah.  But we're told to eat them. You look at the food pyramid, you look at what is put in front of us in media and it's like, hey, make sure that you eat your Cheerios for breakfast and I would argue maybe not.

Gregory: Yeah, totally. For me personally, I definitely have gone through quite an evolution with my diet. I was always aware of diet being an important part of health and fitness, but like a lot of people, I didn't really know what that meant. What is a good diet and what is a good diet for me? What might be great for me might be terrible for you. There's a lot of bio-individuality that comes into play in particular with diet. So, I've gone quite through an evolution of high carb to low carb and fasting and lots of different things to get to where I am today, which may not be where I'll be five or 10 years from now. Right. In all fairness.

Michael: Yeah, totally. We are an evolution and we're gonna take a bit of a deep dive into this today, which I'm really, really excited about. Particularly one because obviously you wrote a book called ABS at 60 and I'm like, okay, how do we do that? I've got a bit before I'm there, but I always like to do my work in advance. Before we do that though, if I wanted to know you a little bit more in depth, more about who you are, what is something that would be really important to know about who you are, Gregory?

Gregory: I grew up the oldest son of an alcoholic father. And we moved from Buffalo, New York to Huntsville, Alabama when I was eight years old in second grade. So, I was old enough to recognize, hey, these people talk different here in Alabama. Right? And there's a little different culture and a little different way of living and so on and I never really fit in. And that manifested in a lot of different ways, I didn't have the kind of self-esteem that most teenagers I didn't have a normal, what I would consider a normal high school experience, or even a college experience. Well, all of that played into effect of some of the attitudes that I developed being fiercely independent because of my upbringing, but also acknowledging that maybe there was something better for me down the road. So, I was kind of not ever in the present, my present wasn't really a part of me until fairly recently, I was always like, tomorrow's gonna be better. Next week's gonna be better, particularly if I take care of myself. I don't know, that was an attitude that I developed in my twenties as a part of a coping skill so let's start with that.

Michael: Yeah. When I think about those, we all have these autonomic responses to stressors, some of us don't even think about 'em they're just happening in real time. They're the things that we do that in some way even may be causing ourselves pain, but curb the other pain, which is this absolutely really interesting part of the human dynamic and experience. When you were growing up and feeling like an outsider, I think that for a lot of people, that gets transformed into a lot of really poor behavioral choices. And I would of course, put myself in that category, I mean, I did drugs for the first time when I was 12 years old, started drinking at 13 and went down this really wild path of crime and getting kicked outta school in the whole nine. But what was it for you that wanted to point you in another direction? Was it like witnessing your relationship with your father? Was it the community? Was it just feeling so outside the box, you were like, I will do anything to go to the other side, like, where did that come from?

Gregory: So, there was a growing tension inside of me after I graduated from university and I moved down to South Florida. And unlike you, my experience is different in that my trauma is what Peter Tia called the little t-trauma. I was neglected. Right. And I didn't realize that I even had wounds until fairly recently, right? So, that's very different from someone who's been through physical trauma, the scars are there, right? Well, what was happening for me in my twenties, so I didn't have my first drug or alcohol until I was like 19, it was actually legal to buy beer in Alabama when I was 19. This was before Ronald Reagan raised the drinking age. Okay. Of course, my first beer was six pack. So, I didn't necessarily have good modeling even around alcohol of course, with my father.

When I moved to Florida, that pattern of drinking started to escalate and I started to get a beer gut and I didn't like that in me physically. But the good news was, a coworker of mine, I was to later find out a recovering alcoholic but he never disclosed that to me. I only found that out like 30 years later after he passed and his wife told me he'd been alcohol free for over 50 years, or I just a few days shy of 50 years but I didn't know that. So, in sharing some of what was going on with me, he said, well, you ought to come run with me.

Michael: Was this Dave?

Gregory: Yeah. Dave, exactly the first of two Dave’s, that I considered sort of role models and guides along my way. And so, I started running with him and I had some skill, I wasn't world class by any means, but I was able to run and run fairly well, fairly quickly that was really empowering to me. However, I was still drinking, and there was one event that I talk about in the book where I had a few, I don't remember how many happy hour drinks, and I'm driving home on 9:95, you know, weaving in and outta traffic being unusually aggressive for me, I usually, that wasn't my style. And there's just this voice that said, hey dude, what are you doing? Slow down. So, I do, I get right to the speed limit, look over to my right, and there's a state trooper that's staring right at me and I'm like, oh sh*t. I mean, you know, I need to make a decision here. I see the direction that my father went and I can make a choice and I did. I decided to make a choice and I stopped drinking, basically cold Turkey at that moment. And in hindsight, I don't remember making like a big proclamation of it or anything like that, it's just like exercise became my safety. And I used it very vigorously and I had this attitude that it was protecting me from the effects of alcoholism that I saw in my father. And it did have some benefits for sure but as I later came to find out, it certainly didn't solve all my problems.

Michael: Yeah, rarely does anything solve all your problems.

Gregory: Yeah, exactly, right?

Michael: Yeah. Except death.

Gregory: Hell yeah. We don't have to worry about it then.

Michael: Yeah, of course. That's what I think every single day. You know, I think that there are those moments in which the universe lays in front of you a decision. And it's like, hey man, you might be going a little hard and like in real time you're making a choice. I'm gonna slow down. God, spirit universe, who knows where that comes from. Right. But something within you says this. A lot of people will have that experience in that moment, the slowdown, they'll look over, they'll see the cop, and they'll go, whew. Not this time. And then they're back in it tomorrow, that was me. Right. I'm like, f*ck it, let's go. If I can do it this time, I can do it next time. And that worked for a long time, unfortunately, it hasn't always worked for people in my life. And I see that time and time again where here you are with an opportunity, the universe saying to you, hey, Gregory, why don't you chill the f*ck out? And yet we keep pumping and pumping and pumping to the edge. Do you think that it was, and I don't wanna put words in your mouth, but I'm really curious about this ‘because I want to hopefully create a little bit more depth of context. Do you think in some way to the relationship you had with your father this was like a moment of saying, I definitely don't want to be like that guy? And the reason I ask that question is I look at my brothers, I look at my sister, I look at myself and the way that we've handled and navigated the world coming from a home with alcoholic and drug addict mother, stepfather, chaos, we've all gone a different path not that we haven't had our hardships because dude, trust me, we have. But it was just a measurement and I think all of us have become in this agreement, we're like, we don't want to be like that.

Gregory: I think that's very true. I think that I was able to reframe and almost project myself and I said, no, I don't want that outcome, I don't want that isolation and I don't want that limited way of thinking to be me. And I didn't know necessarily what the options really were. In fact, for a lot of my life, I was going away from stuff rather than towards stuff. Well, like I wanted to get out of Alabama really bad, all right, that whole scene was just bad for me. So, originally when I was looking at schools, because education for me was a way out, I knew that I was good at math. I was a nerd, I started taking calculus. The summer of my junior in high school I went to the university because I'm like, I'm not getting fed I can do this. And it was all on me because no one was encouraging me to do it. I just had to have that; I had that belief in myself. I wanted to go to the University of Tennessee and my parents were like, well, good luck. Let us know how that works out for you. I got no support, so I didn't have the financial creativity means or creativity to figure that out. But I was already going to school there in Huntsville where we had moved, so I knew how to make that work, so I just put my head down and said, I can get through this, I worked full-time, half of the year, so figure 50% work all the time, I paid my way and I got out in three and a half years with an engineering degree. I didn't have fun, it wasn't a great college experience, but I was completely focused on that outcome. But it wasn't because I wanted to be a great engineer, it was a way for me to get out of Alabama and my dad was an engineer. Right. So, part of that was still like, you know, in effect modeling what he might've liked, even though he didn't really express any encouragement or desires for me. Right.

So, only until my forties did, I say, Hey, I'm really interested in being more involved in health and fitness like a real active way. I quit my job, and studied, I took all of the prerequisites for medical school in my forties, and in the end I didn't go because the type of medicine that has been traditionally practiced, let's react to when you get sick with drugs and surgery really wasn't what I was after; I was after much more of this proactive approach. Right. Let's prevent disease in the first place so that we can increase both our health span and our lifespan. Right. And there's more and more people in a Peter Tia is certainly one of those guys that is professing that, that's really what I wanted to be, but I didn't know how to do that and especially in that timeframe.

Michael: Yeah. And in that timeframe, not to just peg your age, but I mean people were still smoking in bars and restaurants and drinking the alcohol levels like 0.14 back then, or whatever it was and so we live in a very, very different world. But I want to go back to something, your friend Dave. And I wanna go back to him because I believe mentorship, even in just the slightest ways, can radically affect and change our lives. What did you learn from Dave?

Gregory: Dave was probably 30 years older than me at the time he was getting ready to retire from, I worked in the electronics industry at the time, and we were coworkers in a way, I was an engineer, he was a technician. I suspected that Dave was involved in something like AA, but I didn't know. I didn't know for sure. What I saw in Dave was a huge commitment to running, he was a marathon runner, and we can use a word cross addiction, and I think I felt into that myself. Dave was cross addicted to running, but this was a much better outcome for him than the path he was on and I never really knew even his wife didn't ex explain to me, you know, the drinking Dave, I don't know what that was like. I only know that he was a very committed runner and family man as well that took a special interest in me and I'm really grateful that he took that special interest in me, I don't know why. Right. I think there's one of those things where the universe brings the teacher when the student is ready. I had one other mentor even sort of prior to him, it's kind of sad my first credit card, you know, $300 credit limit back in the day, right? And I needed someone to co-sign with me and I wouldn't go to my father because everything was a string, even if you would've done it which I'm not sure he even would have it would've. Come with some sort of string, I ended up going to one of my professors at the university who had taken a little bit of an interest in me as well and said, Hey, would you be willing to cosign this credit card loan? He's like, sure, here you go. Boom. Done.

I stayed in touch with Dave ‘cuz I left South Florida, I ended up going to Michigan and then Colorado but we stayed in touch Dave was always supportive of me. And even to this day, his wife and I are friends on Facebook, and she's gotta be in her maybe nineties now, right? And she's still kicking out some runs and stuff herself so, she was also part of that.

Michael: What lessons did he teach you?

 Gregory: Well, my very first race that I did was with Dave. I had no idea that I was capable of doing that, it was a five-mile race in Miami. And he taught me that there was another path, that there was a fitness path that I could go down and that there was a community of people that he had become a part of and that I could become a part of as well so, there was another way. He wasn't preachy or demanding about it, he was simply offering and he didn't force anything. But if I asked questions, he was there with knowledge and information. So, I ran my first marathon about a year after I met Dave, it was too fast actually, ‘cuz I ended up kind of hurting myself in the process. But I became very enthusiastic about all of this. Right. It was probably a couple of months after I started running with Dave that I had the incident where I said, okay, I'm gonna stop drinking and then really focus on this path.

Michael: What impact has not drinking had on your life?

Gregory: Well, let me be clear. I haven't had any alcohol in the last four years and from about 10 years after that event, I didn't have any, and by the way, my father really resented that. He thought that was an indictment on him, and I wasn't preachy and say, hey dude, you know, you need to get your act together like what I'm doing and be all pompous about it. But his attitude to me turned distinctly negative at that point when I stopped drinking and started exercising. So, it really made our relationship worse, not that it was good. Right. We had what I call a three conversation a year relationship, his birthday, nevermind, Father’s Day and Christmas, those were the three times we talked.

When I was about 30, he sent me this angry letter that I'm a terrible son and he wasn't inebriated when he wrote the letter, but you could tell there was just a lot of anger and hostility that was built up into this. And I had to decide do I want a relationship with him at all? And I got some counseling and I ended up taking very much the high road. I said, yeah, you're probably right. I probably forgot your birthday or whatever it was, you know, and I probably haven't been the best son and maybe that wasn't the best way to handle it, but it kept us in a three day a year relationship. However, to go back to your question, I did drink some moderately the last time I drank, I drank one beer, it gave me a headache. And I said, this is stupid. Right? Well, what's the point of this? I was in a social setting with work, and I wouldn't say pressure, but certainly a little bit of pressure to conform and at that point I'm like, okay, I don't need this. Also, I'll say that my girlfriend, she's not drinking either, let's just say that. So that helps and it was good for both of us to be able to have an alcohol-free relationship.

Michael: What was your mother's relationship with alcohol?

Gregory: She did not drink much, if any and she doesn't drink. So, that wasn't really her thing, she was very, I would say, sort of subservient to my dad and reasonably passive. So, he ruled the roost and she kind of went along with it? I can't really tell, I mean, I had a really nice relationship with her parents, my grandparents on her side. But they say alcoholism is a family disease, right? And I don't know to the extent that my grandfather, how much he drank but there was some alcohol in the home.

Michael: Yeah. It's interesting that this is a thing that we are spun to be a very social thing and yet it destroys more lives and families and probably anything. And obviously for the context of this show, and I've always been very forthright about this, I'll have a drink on the occasion. And for me it's one of those things were, yeah, probably social, being at events, hanging out with people, things of that. And I've gone through these bouts and spurts of time where it's been three or four years between drinks. And people will be like, why are you not drinking? I'm like, ‘cuz I don't want to like, I don't know why there's this weird disconnect around the social acceptability of having the responsibility of not wanting this thing so there's always that stigma, that dogma. And I look at the impact generationally and then not just alcohol, but drugs and violence and debt. I mean, money is a huge generational thing as well, I look at all these different situations and circumstances that are handed in front of us, and it's like we all have, there's a healing journey that inevitably is in front of you. Right. And I think it's really interesting at one point you had went to IU and got an MBA. Right?

Gregory: I have three degrees.

Michael: You have three. Consummate, overachiever, congratulations. I did my strength finders testing again recently, and achievers my number one. It did not change from the last time that I had done it.

Gregory: That's very solid. Right.

Michael: And so, I resonate that that's not a poke at you, but just like, I often think to myself, you should go achieve, you should go and see what you're capable of doing. And there is the hesitation that I think a lot of people have in stepping into that thing about their dreams. You have three degrees, you've competed in so many different events, races, half marathons, body building like how is it that you have been able in consideration of your past knowing that for most people, it's a massive hindrance. Right. My father was like this, my mother was like this, I witnessed these relationships, I was in this place I didn't want to be, I'm sure there was other things involved in that like where does it come from within you to be like, I'm gonna go for it.

Gregory: There's certain aspects of my life where I've had a lot more self-confidence than others. One of the things I didn't mention in my twenties is I didn't date at all, I didn't have enough self-confidence to ask a woman out to date.

Michael: No dates?

Gregory: I mean, one or two maybe, I can't remember if they were.

Michael: That's shocking to me sitting across from you right now.

Gregory: And I ended up getting married to the very first girlfriend that I had in my thirties. Right? And we were married for 15 years and it was a functional marriage. But I also knew in that experience, and I wasn't growing enough. There was more growing for me to do and this was again, that voice in my head, right? Like in the car with the state trooper and that one I didn't act on initially, it was like, this is the first person who I thinks ever really cared about me. And so, I agonized over getting divorced and when I finally got the courage to have that conversation with her. She's like, yeah, where do I sign? I guess she had some growing to do too. This was more about me and I know I was still a very selfish person in that relationship, right? So, I definitely acknowledge that. But to come back to your thought, when I'm moving my stuff out, I'm going through all of the boxes of old stuff and whatever, and I came across some pictures of me in my twenties and I look and I go, sh*t, this was all in my head, I mean, I'm five four that didn't change but there's plenty of people, my height who've done great things, right? That's not a limitation. So, one of the moments that I realized that this has just been me holding me back as opposed to something else. I got two hands, two arms and a brain that's good enough to get three degrees. So, there's just been aspects of my life where I've had a lot more confidence to say, yeah, I can go do that. My parents' only aspiration for me was to go be a computer key punch operator, and I said, f*ck that. Right. Because I know I'm capable of more than that. But to go ask Julie out on a date, oh yeah, that's not something I'm happy to do because I'm so afraid of being rejected.

Michael: Yeah, which is understandable. I mean, I can only imagine how many times growing up in a household like that, you're rejected. And for me, one of the things is I had a massive fear of rejection as well and I curbed that by having the willingness to be rejected all the time. And it almost became a game in some sense and I don't mean just in dating a relationships I mean, I got a sales job very young where I had to like, call people, right? F*ck you, never call me again. I'm gonna file complaints, I'm gonna find you and kill, like the craziest sh*t I would hear. And so, like, rejection eventually just became second nature, right? And I think that if you want to build confidence, go get rejected a lot and recognize that it's not about you.

Gregory: Part of that, after the divorce, I did get involved again, the teachers began to show up. And I started taking the variety of different self-improvement, self-help courses. And one of them was a charm class we could say and it was over in Hollywood, California. And one of our exercises was we were paired up with buddies, it was all guys and we were paired up with buddies on Hollywood Boulevard and said we had to go, I don't remember what the pitch was, but we had to go approach women. Right. And invite them to something, or the whole thing willow was to break outta that shell. And it was really amazing for me because I hadn't really experienced this sort of ability to walk up and not be rejected and you're sure some people are saying like, yeah, I'm just too busy. But a lot of people there were like, yeah, cool, that's cool what you're doing and good for you and that sort of stuff, and actually have a positive experience out of it. Right. So being willing to test some of those limits and learn that, again, these limits are really way up here in my head as opposed to real limits that the universe has said, oh no, Greg can't do that.

Michael: Yeah. Right. Well, and that's why I pointed to, I felt surprised by what you just said because here I see this man who stands confidently, chin up, shoulders back. And I think people will see me and think the same and not understand that for a very, very, very long time. It was shoulders down, slumped over, no eye contact, just anyone, please don't look at me.

Gregory: Yeah. I was invisible. Right. And that's the really, the way I thought about myself in high school in particular. Right. I wasn't picked on or bullied basically, but I wasn't a part of anything, you know, I was off, if anything, just hanging out with some of the nerd guys.

Michael: Yeah. But there's something in you that has the willingness to go for it, even though perhaps in all areas, and I don't think we all are ultimately confident in all areas, I think that's probably improbable. Right? And so, in consideration, I look at that and go, okay, well there's obviously areas where there's lack of confidence, there's areas that are fully confident and I think that perhaps your ability to be astute in the things that challenge you mentally have driven you into success. And I'm gonna guess the same way that you were able to now reset your life again in your forties and say, I'm actually gonna go this direction about health, which is kind of the thing that leads us to today. What was happening in that window where you're like, I'm going to just go in this other path, potentially head into this PhD program. Learn about health, ultimately find out like, actually that's not the thing I want to go into ‘cuz that's sick care, not healthcare. What was happening in that window?

Gregory: Well, again, I hadn't chosen a destination, I was running away from stuff all these years and I realized that health and fitness was a good destination for me that I could be an influencer or even a disruptor to show what is possible at 40 or 50 or 60 or 70 or 80. Right. Because I've got some serious goals of what I want to do when I'm 80. So, there was another event that comes to mind, I guess it would've been my forties where after I was diagnosed with low bone density, I started weightlifting, I was also prescribed testosterone, and that helped and it also improved my libido, which is like, oh, this is what it's like. I was in the gym, actually, this was in Germany I was at work and one of my coworkers said, hey, Greg, have you ever thought about competing on stage as a bodybuilder? Like, who's he? Who's this guy talking to? Right. And he said, no, no, no. I mean, you know, and he saw the package of what I was. So, he was being really kind and generous and I thought about that a little bit more and I guess I said, why not? Right? Why not me? And I ended up going and competing in a body building show without ever having been in one. Right. And that takes a little, because I'm like, what the hell am I supposed to do? Right? And I met my first coach there at that show, though, backstage. She's like, all right, there's some things we need to teach you. Okay. Fair enough. I'm a rookie here, right? So, I guess I've been open to coaching right along the way as well. Open to feedback is sometimes it sucks, right? Getting candid feedback, but honestly, that's the best way forward is if someone's willing to give you honest feedback, they're your friend, right? Regardless of what their situation is, they've done you a big favor by giving you some honest feedback. And I haven't liked it at times but I've been at least I think, willing to listen to it, consider it, and also consider and look at what other people have done. I think, I did read some of Tony Robbins stuff back in 1990 when he released, Unleashed The Giant To Within. I didn't act on it as well as I should have, obviously, but some of those ideas stuck with me. Right. If you want to get good at something, look at someone who's doing it and go do what they do. And I've done that in some aspects of my life fairly well and others not, not so much. Right. But I feel like I've got the ability to do what anyone else can do.

Michael: Yeah. I resonate with that a lot, and I think that's the biggest thing of what has brought me here, looking at my life and saying very simply, that guy did it. Okay, so why can't I? What do they know? I don't think they're smarter than me. I don't think they come from a better or worse background from me. It's just they are in, as my mentor says, the consistent, persistent pursuit of their potential. For me, mentorship was massively transformational, there's a 0% chance I'm here right now without mentors. I mean, even mentors in podcasting, like, I've hired some of the greatest podcast hosts in the entire world and like, teach me, help me understand this game which is the same thing I was adaptable so young because I was forced to be. One of my first mentors ever was really when I was working for a fast-food restaurant and 18 years old, I had 52 people under me, at 18, and I'm like, I have no idea what I'm doing. And so, you imagine what 18-year-olds do with a bunch of their 18-year-olds, it was f*cking pure chaos. Right? But we were crushing numbers and I was getting promoted and making all this money and blah, blah, blah. And I've just simply looked at it as if it can be done and someone has done it, why can I not? Obviously, people will often reference the Roger Banister four-minute mile but I think a little bit different than that. Like Tony Robbins for instance, there's something interesting about my relationship with him and now having met him a few times and been able to be in his private coaching group, and of course private coaching group with Tony is like 400 people, but it's still private comparatively to the 16,000 in Palm Beach. Right? And when I first came across him, someone had told me about him, and I said, I was like, f*ck that guy like, what does he know? He's never experienced life. Obviously, you come to find a story, he's really interesting he's been through a lot. But it's like the writings on the wall and that's the adaptability, the willingness to have the person who is in front of you doing the thing that you desire to do and f*cking paying attention. Doing what they tell you to do. When you look at that, like in this transition of your life, now you're in your forties, you're in this bodybuilding show, you have this guy who's like, hey man, you should try this. You're like, I'm going to try it, you get a coach, he gives you feedback, a lot of sh*t you probably don't want to hear.

Gregory: Absolutely. No more cardio for you, Mr. Damian, that was his exact word because I like to ride and run. And if you're gonna build muscle that's can be counter in indicated, right? Like, ah, sh*t. All right, I'm gonna have to follow if I wanna do this, I have to follow that path.

Michael: Okay, that's where I was going. How do you navigate the difficulty of like removing your own ego out of the equation to accomplish the goal?

Gregory: So, in the first step in my book, my process is dream big, let's decide where you wanna be, right? That's the first step, and then understand your why, right? Why do you wanna do that? And what behaviors and or limited thinking might be holding you back. So, all of those kind of play into this. And like I said, I've got some 80-year-old goals that I want to accomplish. And I'm happy to be a role model for men and women to show what's possible and I'm not gonna resonate with everybody, right? I get that. In fact, I find that men my age are the least interested in a way ‘cuz they've already kind of chosen their path. Right. And they feel like there's not much that can be done, which is completely false. The most benefit that people can gain are going from the bottom 20% to the next rung of 20%. Right. I mean, there's enormous benefits to be gained by improving diet, sleep, exercise, wherever you are, it's never too late to make that transition.

Michael: The crux of the question is how do you remove your own personal ego when people sit down in front of you and they say, Gregory, this is the way that you do it, and your brain is like, no, no, no, no. I'm pretty sure I'm right.

Gregory: Well, I guess you have to be honest with yourself and look at your results. Have you achieved what you want to achieve and if no, the writings on the wall. Right. And if I want to get from the honest place of where I am to where I want to be, I've gotta acknowledge that something needs to change. And maybe I can detach my ego from that a little bit and say, well, the ego's a part of this and now it knows that we need to go do the something else. But I think that there's that acknowledgement of the reality is, is I'm here and it's not where I want to be and, that's a strong place to be, right? That's a strong place to be because you can make, take some action, some real action at that point.

Michael: Yeah. I think if you want to transform your life, it's the best place to be. You know, I often talk about turning breakdowns into breakthroughs. And if you are on, from my own experience, when I have been in a place where I feel stagnant or I feel like I'm not sure what this next step is, or I am completely stuck even, I'm like, who do I gotta f*cking pay to teach me something? Well, that's been an understanding about one thing prior to that question is what do I want? What do I actually want? But I think people get so stuck in not knowing what they want. The consumption of content and media and people are always interested in the end goal, and they don't understand the middle. I mean, even for you to get on a stage and do bodybuilding at the age in which you did it for the first time, I mean, there's that middle is decades.

Gregory: Yeah. Sure. Well, as I think Tony Robbins says, could I have turned those decades into minutes and moments? H*ll yeah. I could have with the right coaches and mentors, asking the right questions and all of those sorts of things. So, that's part of the message that I like to share, right? There's never a bad time to do the right thing, I was in a class with some high school kids, and I said that, and my co-instructor, we were talking about finances and she says, no, no, no because what she was trying to, because I was thinking of it from an older person's perspective. Right? And she's trying to teach these younger people, now's the time to take some action, save some money, and so on. And I'm like, you're right, the context here matters. I mean, I did take ownership for where I am and where I want to be. When I had the pictures taken, when I turned 60, I said, okay, dude, if it's not now, when? When are you gonna be good enough to actually share your story and to influence people? Right. And I'm like, well, if it's not now, it's never gonna happen. So, I waited too long.

Michael: But it was the right time.

Gregory: I suppose you're right.

Michael: Yeah. Well, I always think about it when I've shared this on the show, so I apologize guys ‘cause I know you've heard this 10,000 times. But when I go to restaurants, I think you all appreciate this. When I go to restaurants and they have the sign-in form and you write your name on it and it says time, I always write now because that is the time. I don't know what time it is other than that. And that was something that honestly and that that happened purely by accident, where I was just being a smart ass one time, ‘cuz that is in my nature, like it is who I am and I was reflecting on it like that night after I'd had dinner with some friends or it might have been a date, whatever it was, I don't remember. But I remember reflecting on it and being like, dude, the time is always now, right now is the time to make the decision. Do the thing. And it should be you. Right? And the reason why it should be you ‘cuz it's not gonna be me ‘cause I don't give a sh*t about your dreams. And that's not to be callous, but like, I don't care about your dreams. Right? I'm trying to go and build and create mine. Do I wanna support you? Yes, absolutely. Let's sit down, let's have the conversation. Let's look at the roadmap. Let's identify the places in which you have blind spots because I have expertise over here but I can't make you do it.

Gregory: I own my health. Right. My doctor doesn't own my health insurance company doesn't own my health, but these people can help me if I engage them the right way.

Michael: Let's go into the book a little bit because one of the things that I think is really interesting is these four steps. And you have dream big, own your health, live well and recharge often. Are those in any particular order? Let's go through it. So first we have dream big?

Gregory: If we don't have a clear direction of where we're going, we're wandering around, I'm on a bunch of Facebook groups fitness groups, and people will say, my weight loss goal is stalled, I haven't lost any weight. And I'm like, what is your goal? Give me the metric, where are you gonna be in 30 days or, or 90 days? Because without that, we might get lucky, we usually don't, right?  So, this is the dream big that I talked about just a moment ago, right? Is let's decide where you want to go and why is that important to you? That's a big thing because you know, the first obstacle that comes up, if you don't have a good why, you're gonna screw it, right? I need to be able, maybe if we use me as an example, now for most people, health and fitness is a means to an end, right? It's not the end itself. We're here to have experiences, health and fitness, time, money these are all enablers to help us have experiences with each other. And in my case, I can say that my health and fitness I see as and ends because I can help inspire other people I help. I mean, I love to hear that, right? So, that why is really important to me and I have become very disciplined. Let's say, and in many of these aspects because I want to be that role model, but I also don't want to come across as so dogmatic that it's the only way. But we do have to be clear, right? Dream big is the first step.

Michael: Yeah. And sometimes I argue with myself about dogma. I can see the practicality of it. I mean, go look at any of the biggest organizations in the world like they are dogmatic, right? We know what churches represent. We know what Nike represents. We know what Budweiser represents. Right. They're so dogmatic. And I think that there is a place of, even in our own personal health, like you've got to really be strict with yourself. And I don't say, I don't mean all the time but I mean enough that you can appreciate the times that you're not. Here's why I say this, ‘cuz when I was 350 pounds, I was eating chocolate cake, literally for breakfast three, four times a week. Right? Now I can count on one hand in the last five years how many times I've had chocolate cake.

Gregory: Yeah. Congratulations. You changed your mindset drastically.

Michael: And I was like, when I eat it, I'm like, f*ck yeah, like, let's go.

Gregory: Yeah. Fair enough. Right. Let's have the good stuff.

Michael: Yeah, of course. But I also feel in my body when I'm not disciplined, when I make the poor health decisions, even though I know what I'm going to feel like tomorrow, it's a reminder of like why there is some importance of being so strict and dogmatic with yourself. At least this is the way I look at it.

Gregory: Exercise was really important for me in that sense because with both diet and alcohol, if you don't push yourself a bit physically, it's harder to get that feedback, that says what I just did to myself yesterday is hurting me today. Right. But when you push yourself, even some that feedback loop becomes much stronger. And I go, yeah, maybe I don't wanna do that again. Right. Maybe that's not helping me. That one beer that I had and gave me a headache, like, what's the point? Right. I mean, that didn't help. So, why do it?

Michael: Yeah, exactly. Why do it? And I think for some people they don't sit in the why, and I certainly didn't when I'm eating junk food every day, drinking all the time, smoking weed, gummy bears for lunch, and things of that nature. And don't get me wrong, I still love gummy bears, there always are things that I will love and I will enjoy but it's like, am I willing to pay the price today or tomorrow? And I have found I'm more willing to pay the price today by not indulging, not giving myself those things, just simply ‘cuz I can feel how I operate if I don't. And that dreaming big aspect of it is like, I want great health, I want to be able to continue to do martial arts at a good level, to continue to when I want to run a marathon, which I can tell you probably won't be again but if I do, I'm might I can do it right because I'm looking at those dreams, I'm saying they're accomplishable which really this kind of leads into own your health.

Gregory: Yeah. Right. This was the introduction that got us here. When I said we in as individuals own our health, no one else on the planet gives a sh*t about our health as much as we do. It's just the hard fact. So, it behooves us to well first of all understand that and embrace it, right? It's no one else's responsibility. There's a flip side to that coin, like as you just alluded to, there's other people out there with other skills and capabilities that can help us and do want to help us. So, the three big pillars are diet, exercise, and sleep and mental health and emotional health is certainly part of it. But also go to your f*cking doctor, right? And do what he or she says ‘cuz metabolic health is a big deal too, it's not all just about, well, eventually what's going on the inside of us is gonna manifest on the outside, right? So, there's aspects of medicine that we need to take advantage of. So, go to your doctor, go to your dentist. I've got several chapters in that book speaking about hormones and aesthetics and I was recently interviewed and the interviewer asked me, why do you have a chapter of an aesthetics in your health and fitness book? Well, actually it's the lowest hanging fruit for a lot of like guys in their fifties is to shave off that gray beard, you know, get some clothes that fit them. Maybe. Okay. Get some Botox, you know why? Because it actually dramatically can improve our self-esteem. And if that can get us to push away the french fries or that last beer, that's a good thing. So, let's not discount just because something is relatively easy doesn't mean it isn't valuable.

Michael: Yeah, agreed. A previous guest of the podcast, Kimmy Seltzer, who is this incredible makeover coach in LA. She begins with changing people's outside to change their inside. Man, I'll tell you, most guys don't like shopping, I love going and getting a brand-new pair of jeans and t-shirt, even though I know it looks exactly like the other jeans and t-shirts I already own, ‘cuz it's like fresh and it feels good. Right. And I think that's such a great point. People don't recognize like, just the hair, dude, if I haven't shaved in a week, I feel different. If I don't cut my hair once a month, I feel different. And so, I think there's a lot of validity in that, and that leads to this place where I feel like I'm living more well, and I know that's a part of this four-step process too. Live well.

Gregory: Yeah. Live well. So obviously diet, exercise are part of this, but that's not the whole story. So, there is this mental and emotional health component, and the very first chapter in that section of the book is actually be present and happy. And I don't know how long I'm gonna live, I could walk outta here and get killed in a traffic accident. Right. That's a reality. So, let's live each day, like maybe it is our last not in a reckless way, but in a joyful way. Right. And, there's another chapter in the book about relationships. And I have had pretty shitty relationships because I haven't put the energy into it and I've learned that I need to invest. No one's gonna care about me if I don't care about them.

So, this is a part, these are the other parts of living well, it's not just about being healthy, it's about being emotionally healthy and actually enjoying what we're doing and being grateful for this amazing experience that I believe we've chosen to have. But we're here and how we got here, well, I guess maybe we'll figure that out eventually. Right? But let's take the most of it. Let's make the most of it. So, that's really what I'm getting at in terms of living well. There’s simple things that we can do, a little bit of exercise and a little bit of movement in the right direction towards diet and what is the wrong direction, because I said, it took me a while to figure that out. But basically, there's some simple things, right? Let's avoid calories and beverages, sodas and fruit juices, these are things that we were really never designed to consume. And fried foods is not, I rarely eat fried foods ‘cuz it's just empty calories. I've just basically do I like it? I would rather fuel myself with something else. But I don't try to assume that everyone's gonna do what I do. I do have one chapter at the end that speaks specifically to what is this AB thing all about? I'm not even sure it's really the right goal for most people, but so those are some of the components of live well.

Michael: Yeah. And I do think that you have to have clarity about what it is that you want as an individual. I think living well entirely is about navigating all of the things. We live in a time in which you really do have to take full control over your life. You know, they've raised the standards for military entrance based on BMIs and weights because we live in a very unhealthy country. We are consuming propaganda media in this country in a way that we never have before. People don't understand America's the number one propaganda machine. We point at other countries, this is little things we won't go down, but at every single, I was watching the National Championship game. Every other commercial was like fast food. And I'm like, we're watching a sporting event, but every commercial's fast food, there's a big disconnect here. And then when we walk down the aisles of the grocery, and people talk about this frequently, like, but go around the outside, keep to the outside, but the inside's where all the good sh*t is. Right? And so, I think it's about moderation, understanding yourself and giving yourself permission to, again, I give myself permission to indulge sometimes I'm not gonna take that off the plate, but in the day-to-day, because we're high functioning and I want to be able to show up whether I'm recording podcasts on Saturdays or Sundays or midnight on a Friday, because that is what happens sometimes or I'm coaching or I'm in one of my groups or writing the next book, I'm like, to be a high performer, you have to treat yourself as such. And I believe everyone has the capability of being a high performer, you just have to make a decision to live well. And this one, this is the step, whereas I was reading the book I thought to myself, okay, how do you do this better, Michael? Like, what do you really need to do to make this and facilitate this in your life so that I can go to the next level?

Gregory: So, I've got questions and at the end of each chapter, I don't know if any of those sorts of triggered you.

Michael: Well, one that did was in the recharge often, talk about that.

Gregory: So, recharge often is there's really three components. There's sleep, prayer, meditation and some form of spirituality, those were the three components that I put decided to put in recharge often. And I hadn't paid a lot of attention to sleep until fairly recently I wear a aura ring now and I just was able to give my doctor a year's worth of sleep data, for my aura ring. And I've made a lot of changes that, and I can feel the difference. And sometimes the data can be a little bit counterproductive, you know, what's that gonna do to me? But I've actually also found the opposite to be true, where, gosh, it didn't feel like I slept all that well last night. And I'll look at the data and it's like, well, actually I did sleep okay Right? So, it can work both ways. The point really being that we need some opportunity to, in a way, detach right? And obviously as the name implies, recharge the batteries. I do feel that some form of spirituality has helped me and all of these steps are really about, I went back and thought, how have I gone about my life and how would I present this to someone? And this is the way this came about. I actually have completely filled out the form myself and I'm gonna post it on my website so that people can see how I filled out the form and I'm actually gonna be doing an interview, I think with my doctor where we're going to record my session where he goes through my data and we're going to talk about that sort of stuff. But spirituality is something that came fairly recent to me and it was actually my girlfriend who handed me a book called Conversations With God by Neil Donald Walsh because I've been a Catholic, I didn't resonate with, and I'm not here to offend anyone's belief, but it didn't resonate to me, I didn't get it. And as soon as I graduated from high school and I could chart my own path from a spirituality perspective, I stopped going to church, I was agnostic, maybe there's something going on, but that work really resonated with me. And I spent hundreds of hours studying his material. And it's a very simple, I also appreciate the fact that he says, I might be wrong. I might be wrong and that's the approach I take. This is what I believe. It works for me; it resonates for me. It's given me a way to think about my place in the universe and how I relate to you and everybody else but I might be wrong.

Michael: I posted something just two days ago on Instagram and I'll paraphrase cause I don't remember exactly what I had written, but it was like, mother*ckers, including me are always telling you to do this, this, this, this, and this to change your life. But I don't know what I'm talking about, this is only what I do. And I think that's a really important part, and when it comes to spirituality and religion and things of that nature, you know, I always think to myself, there may be a moment when I pass into whatever is next and I'm standing at the gates and God's just like, dude, I tried telling you. You know? And I don't know if that'll be true or not. Gregory, this has been a phenomenal conversation man.

Gregory: Yeah, thanks for having me, it's been a lot of fun.

Michael: Yeah, of course, anytime. Please tell everyone where they can find you and get your new book. ABS 60?

Gregory: ABS 60 is available at amazon.com. And I think the main place that I like to point people to is my website, which is www.absat60.com. And I'm also on Facebook and Instagram and those are the primary chat channels. I'm easy to get a hold of, I've seen some people be really great in this space and some folks be not so great. I wanna be open accessible to folks.

Michael: Yeah. And of course, we'll put the links in the show notes for the audience. Guys, go to thinkunbrokenpodcast.com. Look up Gregory Damian, and you will find all this information and more. My friend, my last question, what does it mean to you to be unbroken?

Gregory: I heard you ask this question. My answer is, we're unbroken when we realize we're broken and we're doing something about it. That's it.

Michael: Simply put, my friend, thank you very much for being here. It's been a pleasure. Unbroken Nation, thank you for listening.

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