Finding Love After Trauma: Jaime Bronstein's Personal Journey and Insight on CPTSD Healing

Michael: Hey! What's up, Unbroken Nation! Hope that you're doing well wherever you are in the world today. I'm very excited to be back with you with another episode with my friend Jamie Bronstein. Jamie, my friend, how are you? What is happening in your world today?

Jaime: I'm doing so well. Thank you so much. And I'm just working like crazy as normal.

Michael: Yeah, same. I totally get that. For those who don't know about you, which I do, you and I have been friends for a while, tell us a little bit about your background and how you got to where you are today.

Jaime: Sure. So, I have been practicing psychotherapy. I've been a relationship coach for 20 years, and I always like to say that I popped into this world destined to do this, especially because my name in French means, I love “j'aime” means I love in French. So, I always feel that I just popped into this world and then it really was my first psychology class in high school where I just became obsessed and so excited. I felt like it gave me this power, it helped me to just finally understand life and people, and so that's really what propelled my fascination and intrigue with psychology. And I got my bachelor's in psychology, master's in social work, certificate and spiritual psychology and anyhow, throughout the course, I found that the clients that came in that either were single, were in a couple, or going through a breakup or divorce, were the ones that I gravitated to the most. And in addition to that, I'd say my personal reasons are I feel very grateful that I grew up with parents that have now been married for 51 years. And I use that to help inspire people to know that deep love truly does exist and everyone can have it, it's everyone's birthright. I also, personally, I did not get married, I met my husband when I was 34, did not get married until I was 37. So, I have years of dating and I was a huge dater, they called me the kissing band. Well, I called myself the kissing Bandit. I loved dating, which is also a good thing because I look at dating as a positive thing, I help my clients with that. And I am writing a book called Manifesting it'll be published in February anyhow. So, I share my stories, I had to go through so many trials and tribulations, I had to learn so much about what it really takes to manifest love. And I believe I manifested my husband because through trial and error and finally doing all these spiritual psychological tools and tips that I teach biggest one being surrender, but we can talk about that later, it happened.

Michael: I love that it's powerful and I am very much on the side of let's talk about it now and not later. And I think that's such an important point. You know, I look at this idea of manifestation, I do it all the time in my life. I've done it time and time and time again to the point where I'm like, it almost is eerie, right? The ability that we have to actually create what we want. Now, that doesn't mean you don't have to put in work, this isn't the secret, like let's not talk about this idea, you can just wish shit into existence ‘cuz that's not how life goes down. I mean, you know, as the self-proclaimed kissing bandit, you had to go on 8,000 dates before you find your person. And I think that people feel like, oh, this didn't work so I'm not worthy of love, I'm not worthy of admiration, I'm not worthy of compassion, I'm not worried of any of those things. And it's really, I do believe to some extent it's like surrendering to the reality that you are worthy of those things and allowing it to come to pass. So, I wanna start there, and I want you to talk about surrender and what that actually means and why that played such a pivotal role, not only in your life, but in the people that you help.

Jaime: So, let's talk about surrender, but also what you're saying is how do we shift those negative narratives to actually manifest. So surrendering is all about getting, letting go of control; control is an illusion anyway. So, by surrendering we say, it's also saying, I give it up to you, God, universe, higher power, whatever you wanna call it ‘cause we as humans think that we know what's best for us, that's why we try to control so much. But if we say, okay, I'm doing everything in my power to make this happen, I trust that you will bring me this or something better for the highest of all concerns. So, you know, you say what you want, but then you trust that the universe will bring you what you need. And to address the topic of feeling unworthy of love, incapable of love, all of these things that we buy into that our ego is saying, fear based and lies it all stems from either childhood, from childhood or an adult romantic relationship, something that somebody said to you in the sandbox, something that a parent said to you, and we buy into it, we believe it. So, what I help my clients do is to go from here, which are the lies, drop into your heart and say what the truth is, the truth is of course, I'm worthy of love. Of course, you know, there's a negative narrative, all the good guys are taken, you know, or my time has passed, whatever your story is. You go from your head to your heart and you say what the truth is, and this doesn't happen overnight, it takes practice.

Michael: It does. And I think one of the really important things that people should hold onto, especially if you come from traumatic background, right? Many of the people who listen to this show like me have come through just the most substantially painful realities of childhood that one can even imagine and finding love begins with you first. And I think that for so many people, and this was me in my twenties, right? You talk about serial dating and hookups and the internet being this thing that it was at the beginning for me of just being able to connect with people and I thought, what was a fulfilling way, which I would come to discover actually was not where it's like we go find all this external shit and we're like, please make me fucking love myself, other person and it's like, doesn't happen and so, many people struggle with this. And the narrative, yes, I do believe is capable of being, I deserve this. But what about those people who have been just so stuck, so hurt, so abandoned, so broken, right? And they're like, but do I really like, how do they navigate this conversation?

Jaime: So, it's kind of like before you're trying to get a job. Let's say you're right outta college, you're trying to get a job and everybody keeps saying you need experience and you say, well, how do I get experience if I don't have experience? Or how do I have experience if I can't get, it's that whole chicken or the egg thing so, it takes a lot of intentionality and being conscious and aware. And if you can start getting conscious of the fact that you are identifying as a victim that is how you start to shift it, because I believe that the universe gives us what we focus on. So, if we are focused on identifying as a victim, we'll keep manifesting experiences, non-opportunities, and people, potential mates that will just validate that we are a victim. So, it's a choice and it's not easy, it's hard, but it takes courage and the feminine courage is strength of heart so, courage. CORE, heart, it takes strength of heart to say to yourself, I'm gonna make a choice right now cuz I know that my past sucked it sucked. But do I wanna stay in jail forever or do I wanna free myself from those shackles? And do the hard work, go to someone like Michael or me, depending on what it is. And really do that work and deep dive and find, get back to that self that you were that you were born as that soul. And that is the work that I do. I help people get past the barriers, negative narratives, victim mode, that are preventing them from accessing their authentic self, which a beautiful, innocent, pure being.

Michael: What do you think are the top three barriers that people have from being able to access this.

Jaime: So definitely negative narratives. These things that people are saying to themselves. Being in victim mode and then also not trusting themselves, meaning not trusting their intuition about things. For instance, I think, part of indecisiveness and needing to ask a million people for their opinion, that all is, to me speaks that you're not connected with yourself, so not being connected with yourself. If you're at launch and you need to ask the waitress, what the best thing on the menu? That they might tell you what they like the best, but it's all about what do you like the best? So, not being in touch with your intuition holds you back also from healing and moving on.

Michael: Yeah, I agree with, well, it's hard to trust yourself, right? One of the hardest parts about coming through traumatic experiences is you learn to not trust yourself because in some capacity it becomes a survival mechanism, right? And you're like, to be me is dangerous, so I can't be me and then what you suddenly are in are these connections and relationships where it's like you have never been yourself one time, and then the truth comes out and then it's like, hey motherfucker, like what is really going on here? Because I promise you, that person you're pretending to be is being seen, right? You can't sleep at night. You're in this chaotic thought process all the time. You're feeling emotionally unstable and it’s like, yeah, probably because you're not being forthright and you have to stop lying. And I think that's one of the really hard parts is people, especially in relation and connection, they feel the need and the urge to be an authentic believing that it's the very thing that will actually create connection and you're like, but is it though? And so, in this, and I can see you smiling cuz we're in agreement, right? Like, how do people get into authenticity when they only know being inauthentic in relationships?

Jaime: So, I would say you need to kind of threaten yourself or challenge yourself. The threat is basically, I'm not going to end up with the person I'm supposed to be with, who's really aligned with my authentic self if I keep showing up as anybody else but also, it takes so much more energy to not be yourself. When you just say, okay, I'm just going to be me, it takes this weight off, and then it's also about not having an attachment to the outcome. So, it helps you to be yourself by going into a date or a job interview, or an anything, a webinar, anything with no attachments to the outcome, meaning that I just want people to see me and hear me and love me for everything that I am. And if they don't, bless their soul, I'm the fun boss. I'm the wonderful boss. You wanna be on this bus, but if you don't, then that's totally cool. So, it is about not having an attachment to the outcome that helps once again, free yourself to just show up as yourself.

In my book, I've identified a bunch of different dating personas, for instance, and I'm bringing this up because one of them is the chameleon, and it's getting aware that you are even being the chameleon in every different relationship, that you are acting differently, saying that you like things that you don't, doing different things. I have an example in my book about how years ago I was dating this guy and he loved scuba diving. I never ever thought I wanted to never entertained it, I got certified and I spent a lot of money. I got certified to be a scuba diver and we went once to Catalina Island near L.A. I do have to say it was peaceful, like while I was actually doing it, I real, I did enjoy it while I was doing it, but everything else about it and the fear, so much fear went into it. I will never do it again. I had no desire to do it. But that's a perfect example of it's like I wanted to spend more time with him, it's ridiculous. I should have just said, well if I could go back, but we can't dude. No thanks. You go and have fun, that's it.

Michael: Yeah. And it's really hard, like I'm sitting here in real time, like I'm scratching my head thinking about all these moments where I was like, oh, yeah, I would absolutely do that with you and be like, I fucking hate doing this kind of thing. And then eventually you get to this place where I truly believe, it's like you build confidence, right? You build being connected to yourself and your authentic self which I know is a word everybody throws around all the time, but it's true, it's like there's a space in you that is your truth and when you operate in that space, it is authentic and when you do that, two things are gonna happen. One, you're going to attract like-minded people and two people who are not in their authenticity will float away from it. And one of the things I think people have to do is be okay with that. And when people get stuck, you know, obviously with your background looking at this world from a lot of different spaces, how can somebody start to get unstuck and be able to start to step into authenticity? ‘Cuz you know, you said don't lie, it's like, I guarantee you, if you're anything like me where I was when I was 25, if I heard this, I'd be like, okay, great, thanks like I never thought about that. Right? And so, like what do people do? Like if we even just started there, like how do you start to just get unstuck so you can get into authenticity so you can find love and relationship that's connected.

Jaime: So, what's coming to me, the umbrella is healing. Healing. You need to heal these unresolved issues. And what that means is, yes, part of it are these negative narratives, but when it really comes down to it, what it comes down to is, loving yourself unconditionally, and once again sounds cliche, but let me explain what that really means and what authentic self really means. So, loving yourself unconditionally means that you love yourself no matter what, you have forgiven yourself, you have forgiven people in your life, it gives you this freedom. And loving yourself unconditionally also means that there's no judgment, it's saying, I chose to do this, I love myself anyway. Someone says something to you that you get triggered by I'm gonna love myself even more, that's a big one. When you, somebody says something to you that makes you feel bad, say, I'm just gonna love myself even more because I know the truth about myself. These things take time once again, it takes practice.

So, I don't know if that answers your question. I love that you're saying here's the 25-year-old who's saying whatever, but these things are real. And once again, talking to a professional and getting past your ego. Now I'm going into the 25-year-old. There are a lot of defense mechanisms. People are showing up as cocky, or they think they're confident, but really inside they're really not. So, it's about really taking a look at yourself, owning up, looking at yourself, and loving yourself and showing up more empowered.

Michael: Yeah, I think deploying a tremendous amount of grace and you talked about healing being this umbrella, like you have to give yourself grace in this. You know, I look back at. 10, 11, 12 years ago, really starting the beginning of this journey and it was like, yo, I would take one step forward and 10,000 freaking steps backwards because one of the things I had not done is I had not really identified like what I actually wanted, right? And it was like, here I am in this rudderless boat trying to like go to shore of this new life and I was like, I don't even know what that new life looks like. And I realized in that journey that a big part of it was, even though I'd been doing some of these healing modalities, I still had this massive amount of fear. And I think so many people have fear, and then fear turns in like the self-fulfilling prophecy, and then suddenly you're in this place where it's like, wait a second, what is happening? How do people start to navigate the fear of becoming?

Jaime: Okay, well, I love that we're bringing up fear, because in life there are two things. There's fear and there's love, that's it. Fear and love. In every choice we make, in everything that we say, in everything that we do, it's either fear or love. So, just like going to AA, you have to acknowledge there's a problem. So, if you acknowledge in your life, I am living a fear-based life, and like I said before, universe gives us what we focus on, if we are focused so much on fear. Fear is also the future, the past is depression if we're not being present and we're just focused on fear, nothing good's gonna come out of that so once again, it's a threat to yourself. But really, it's really about awareness because the average human is not aware of the amount of fearful thoughts that we are having and the amount of choices that we are making that our fear faced. And a little history ish is that when I say the ego and going, dropping from your head to your heart, our ego, which is fear based, it's doing the best it can like we're doing the best we can, it's trying to keep us safe. And it's there because a long time ago, it prevented us from getting killed by bears or fires, it tells us, no, stop. But now as evolved humans, we need to have a talk with it and we need to say, I got this. Like, let me be free. Let me be live a big life. Stop holding me back.

Michael: That's a scary proposition because I think that when you sit in that, what you have to realize, and this is I think to believe to be a very real truth is I do believe that people are more afraid of success than they are a failure. And they're scared of this idea that I can have a loving, compassionate, kind relationship with no physical, mental, or emotional violence where we don't yell at each other and hit each other where we don't use our worst secret against each other, where it's not conniving and all of those things, you know, contempt ultimately shows up in those relationships and you can go look at any research around it. Contempt is often the gateway to divorce, to value relationships to all of those things. And I remember like as I started shifting in my own life to get to this place of really just a tremendous amount of self-compassion in that I realized like, wait a second, I don't want to be afraid of having everything, having a great relationship, having great friendships, having all of this stuff, and it really came down to just sitting down and going, what do I want? And at the beginning you talked about manifestation and I think that it's such a fucking buzzword right now that people don't understand even how to do it, they're just like, I'm manifesting all this stuff. I'm like, yeah, yeah but wait a second you're probably missing the boat here somewhere. So, I'd love for you to kind of just break down like what does manifesting actually mean, especially in terms of love.

Jaime: Yeah. So, there are steps, and I mean, each chapter of my book is essentially a different step and by the way, even though it's called manifesting, you can use these tricks, these tools, these nuggets of wisdom, and you can apply it to everything in life. So, the first step we've already gone over is loving yourself. You have to love yourself because our outside experience is a reflection of our inner reality, so we already went over that, you need to love yourself, so you're actually showing up as your authentic self to manifest that aligned match it's about attracting, and this is the law of attraction buzzword also, however, very real, literally very real. You were just saying before you feel like sometimes things are even like you said, eerie, I would say like crazy, it's crazy. I don't know things are happening to me all the time. I was randomly thinking about this guy the other day and the night I got a, or I was telling my husband a story about this random man that had sent me a message on Facebook and then I had written to my friend who I was asking if he's related to this guy because this guy was a little creepy anyhow, I was just telling my husband that story, and as I'm telling him, I receive a message on Facebook from my friend who I had sent a message to, but I had sent him message, I don't know, days earlier I hadn't thought about and like in that moment. So, this is an example of how we're constantly, like when you're in the zone, you're just connected, so you want, that's the point. Once you want to be connected to yourself so you can be connected to the universe, which I'll get more into the end of my book. Trust me, it makes sense. So wanna be connected to yourself, love yourself, so you can manifest that which is aligned with you. You need to, once again, trust. Trust yourself. You need to cultivate this intuition. Be in your integrity always, it is the most powerful, wonderful feeling to just trust yourself on your manifesting journey. You don't need to ask a million people. Trust yourself, get really connected with yourself. Along those lines, something that I tell my clients to do is before you go to sleep at night, make a list of about 10 “I am” statements. I am smart, I am worthy whatever you say I'm beautiful inside and out, and you say those right before you go to sleep, and that starts to help the process of getting connected with yourself. I do have a free gift, which is seven days of manifesting love affirmations and manifestations, I mean, and exercises, which that is one of the exercises so I can share the link with you. So, that, anyhow, to wrap this up, and I don't wanna give everything away, but a few other aspects of manifesting are you need to believe that it's going to happen literally, you have to believe it's gonna happen or it's not gonna happen visualize living as if it's already happening. I tell my clients to undo both sides of the bed at the universe needs to know that there's room to even bring this person in. Okay? When you set a place setting for dinner, I dunno if anybody actually does that, or you pour a glass of wine or pour some, you're eating dinner, put a plate in some silverware for your lovely guest with you. And also have the men start to have the mentality of you are in a couple and what it would feel like and once again, I have exercise and tools for this and the cool thing about visualization is that our brain doesn't know the difference between something actually happening and it not happening. So, the more that we actually live as if it's happening, the more easily it will come into our life. And that's also why it's important not to live in the past because if you're living in that mentality of the past, you're not healing.

Michael: Yeah, and a lot of that makes so much sense. I've never heard anybody say undo both sides of the bed. I think that's a really interesting concept but I mean, it makes sense to me. So, either the universal will bring you someone or a ghost, like whatever, like, and so, you know, I did think about this stuff and I'm like, you have to set yourself up for success and build the habits and the routines around these things and it's not just this quasi like, I'm gonna try things and see what happens because of whatever, it's like literally just putting yourself through the paces. You know, I look at it, whether it's speaking on stages or writing books or podcasting or my own relationships, it's kind of like I predict what they're going to be so frequently. I have fucking déjà vu, all of the time because I visualize it and visualize it and visualize it. And it's funny, you know, I remember the first time I wrote down like a speaking goal, I was like, I'm gonna speak in front of 20,000 people one day,but at the beginning, like two people showed up, right? And then one day I spoke in front of Grant Cardone's 10X community and there were 10,000 people in that room, still, not to my goal but halfway and it's like, but it started with an idea, I started with this concept of closing. I would close my eyes and I'd be like, I see the stage, I see the people, I see the microphone, I see the spotlights. I can't actually see the people ‘cuz the spotlights are so bright and you go through this whole thing. And I think that applies to relationships and love as well. And to sit down and to write it down and create it and focus on it. It was interesting, I was lived in Thailand and I met this amazing, amazing woman and she was telling me about how her and her husband had connected. She is a woman who grew up in Indiana, her husbands from the other side of the world, but the one common interest she said was a must, she was like, I had to make sure I married somebody who liked salsa dancing. And you're talking about this guy who's like from the other side of the world, like salsa dancing's, not a thing, but she wrote him down to the entirety, top to bottom. We went through this exercise, and this was like five years ago. And she said, I put it under my pillow every night, this piece of paper, and she said, and I dated tons and tons and tons and tons of people until I found them. And then I just went through the list, I started checking it off, checking it off, checking it off. And ever since then I was like, oh, I'm gonna definitely mimic and model that because that makes no sense. Because if she can do it, like why can't I? And I think so many people going back to this idea about worthiness, it's like they feel like they're unworthy, but it's also like, what are you doing to be worthy? And one of the greatest things I've learned from my mentor is like, you have to become a person who is worthy of the person that you want to be in your life. This is all leading to my question. So often people will go through these exercises, they'll start to adapt these mindsets, they'll do a lot of the things that you're talking about, and yet they sabotage it they'll find the perfect relationship they'll lie, they'll find the perfect relationship, they'll cheat, they'll find the perfect relationship, they don't show them admiration or care or respect the boundaries, everything that they want is right there, and yet they sabotage it. Why do people do that and how can people stop doing that to themselves?

Jaime: They do that because they haven't fully healed and they don't have the proper tools as or support as it's happening, let's say they're happy, they have everything, and then it's starting to crumble, or they're starting to self-sabotage. Maybe they don't have somebody that they're accountable to. If they're not being accountable to themselves and they're not aware that this is happening, they don't know what to do about it, that's why are you and me or any type of trained professional support person can help. And when you are not healed, once again, fear and love, it's going to be the fear that's going to be driving the boss. The fear is saying is still there obviously if someone is self-sabotaging, then they're saying, it's too much or it's too good to believe when people say it's too good to believe, that's what you're focused on the universe will make sure that it is too good to believe. So, it's awareness, it's being very intentional, it's taking ownership of, okay, I'm aware that I'm about to ruin this. I'm about to fuck this up. Please help me. I need to help myself. I need to do whatever it takes action. You know, we were saying before, it's not just about, oh, I want this to happen. No, you have to take ownership. You have to take action and whatever that action is for you, if it is talking to a trained professional, if it is reminding yourself constantly, this is the lie, what is the truth? This is the lie. What is the truth? And I tell people in line at Starbucks, at the library driving down the street, wherever you are, be aware of your thoughts because thoughts become things, we all know that right now, I think. Thoughts become things so that is the how, that's how you shift it. And once again, threaten yourself, challenge yourself. Do I really want to lose this? You have to be aware of what is going on. It's like you have to see it crumbling and say, I need to, I need to get ahold of myself.

A lot of my clients, that they've been my clients for a while now, it's really sweet. I'll get this frantic text, oh my God, this is going on. And then like, maybe a few texts, like all this drama and everything. And then I give it a moment and then a lot of times I don't have time to write them back anyway. By the time, let's say I can write them back a lot of times they say, I've centered myself, I've gotten back to myself. I've gone through the process that you taught me, and now I have a different perspective, it's about shifting your perspective, seeing life through a different, a lens of perception also.

Michael: Yeah. And I think shifting your state also, like, I mean, you make these rash decisions in a state of anxiety, depression, chaos like that's going to be reflective of what you do. You know, even in my own life, going and looking at like the kind of person that I wanted to be, it was like there's been moments in my life where like I'm about to send a text that's gonna fucking destroy everything, whether it be a friendship or a relationship, a business partnership. And so, what I started doing is I started taking my phone and writing out my thoughts in my notes and then being like, in five hours, if you still feel the same, you can send it, because I realized I needed this buffer because we're so reactive. I'm reactive like I'm super reactive so, like I need a pause button. I need chill, step back ‘cuz you're gonna realize more often than not, it's probably not that big of a deal as you're making it in your head but because your state is in anxiety, in chaos and depression, you act in that manner. And it is fascinating to me that every single time I've ever ruined something in my life, it was because my state, because of where I was mentally, emotionally, physically, like, what are you doing? And it took me a long, long, long fucking time, right? Coming from that abusive background to get to this place where I'd be like, someone being upset with you doesn't mean that they hate you and you don't have to react in this way where you're like, I'll show you, you know and being reciprocal and causing other people pain. And it really comes down to what you're talking, it's like know thyself like learn who you are, figure out how you react, and then create these frameworks and these parameters in your life where it's like, okay, wait a second. Is it taking the pause? Is it turning my phone off? Is it when I'm in a in person disagreement and it gets too heated going, let's bring this back in 25 minutes. And I think so much of it is also in this like just creating some boundaries around communication. Most of us growing up do not have a strong example of healthy relationships, of healthy communication, healthy sex, healthy dating, healthy love, and it really is, I think first and foremost, educating yourself. And I went on this super deep dive where it's like I'm reading Esther and I'm listening to everything that Dan Savage has ever done in the history of time, and I'm listening to Dr. Drew like, it's my job, and it was like, why? Because I suck at relationships. I don't wanna suck at relationships, so how do I not suck at relationships? I learned from other people who don't suck at relationships well, at least not as much as I suck at 'em, right? And so, it's like just going one step ahead.

Jaime: Something that you were saying also was always know that everything is a projection and hurt people, hurt people. So, if someone is trying to hurt you, it's only because of their own unresolved issues. So, and they're projecting it onto you so that's another way. Now that we're talking about this, to take a pause, put a pin in it, and say, okay, well what's going on inside of them? And when people judge someone else, it's a judgment on themselves. If you say to somebody, you're dishonest, or you're a horrible person, or your whatever type of word you wanna say, that's really coming from how you're feeling about yourself. So, you can actually flip the switch by just having compassion for that person. And for me also, like my growing up I had an older brother that I popped out he was just jealous and angry then I had a younger brother, so I grew up with this older brother who was not nice to me or my younger brother, and it took me years and healing to have such compassion for him. Now I look at him and we love each other now, but I look at him to this day and I could start crying because I look at him as like this, he was hurt, he was angry and that's the only way. And even now he's happy, he's married I mean he still has like his own things, but I can look at him now and I can see sometimes I see him judging anything or whatever and at a family dinner, I'll just glance down the table and just like, send him some love because I know that it's just him doing the best that he can. You know, he's tried therapy I don't know if he's really gonna like, really go to deep dive in therapy, but I think that this is just the way he's gonna be for his whole life but I have such compassion for him.

Michael: And I think that's super, like empathy is so important. Compassion is so important for other people cause and especially cuz you never know what's really going on like I heard, I thought had this really interesting thought and I might be stealing this, so if this is not my thought, like I'm just gonna call it what it is. And they were like, in my head, I was like, I remember seeing the research from Dominican University where they're like, we have 60,000 thoughts a day and I was like, there is no freaking way that you can know what's happening in somebody's life, even if they live in your house and eat dinner with you and go to bed with you every single night. And it's like you have to have that space to give them grace for where they're at and for you because most of the time, even ourselves having all these thoughts will latch onto negativity, we will latch onto fear, we'll latch onto all of the worst of what life can be and part of that's a survival mechanism. And the other part is like you have too actually be cognizant of it. Again, to your point, awareness and just being aware of everything at all times, which is kind of exhausting, but it also gives you presence because when you're making sense of things in real life and making meaning of them while they're happening, that's where you have power, you're not stuck in the past. You're not stuck in the future. And it's like I try to teach my clients because I learned this and it played a massive role in my life. What do I need right now? So many people get caught up in the past, so many people caught up in the future. It's like, wait, wait, wait. The only thing that actually matters is this literal second. And so, Jamie, my friend, this conversation's been absolutely incredible before I ask you my last question, please tell everyone where they can find you and learn more about what you do.

Jaime: Yes, of course. So, my website is therelationshipexpert.com very straightforward. My Instagram is @therelationshipxpert my show is Love Talk Live on LA Talk Radio, but all the links and stuff around my website, my book, like I said, called Manifesting, is going to be published, gonna be distributed by Simon Schuster, February 7^th however, in about, well, by the time this is aired, there will be a link on Amazon. So now it's like we're in the future. But we don't like living in the future we like living today, we're present. And free gift link seven days manifesting lab affirmations and exercises you can put in the down below as well.

Michael: Yeah, for sure we will do that. And of course, we'll put all the links in there, of course we will support you and do everything we can to help you move that book ‘cuz as an author I know how important it is to have community in this, that said, my friend. My last question for you what does it mean to you to be unbroken?

Jaime: To me, unbroken means you're free, pure freedom, free from the past, free from the cast in your mind, you are free to live the life that is meant for you.

Michael: Brilliantly said, could not agree more, my friend. Thank you so much for being here.

Unbroken Nation. Thank you for listening.

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