Meet Kimmy Seltzer: The Confidence Therapist and Image Expert Helping People Find Lasting Love and Connection

Michael: Hey! What's up, Unbroken Nation! Hope you're doing well wherever you are in the world today. Very excited to be back with you with another episode with my guest, Kimmy Seltzer, who is a confidence therapist, authentic dating strategist and image expert, that is a f*** mouthful, but I'm so excited because I know the impact that you're having on the world and the change you're trying to create. Kimmy my friend, what is happening in your world today?

Kimmy: Hello. Oh my God, thanks for having me on. And I know I'm really excited to have this conversation with you because although my title is a mouthful and I know we'll get into my story, the reason why I'm so passionate about doing what I do similar to you is because of my own story. And so, I love the transformation and it's that's why I do what I do is the transformation that people have.

Michael: Totally. Yeah. I get that. And you know, and it's funny too, ‘cuz pople will be like, do you want me to read your whole bio? And I'm like, no. The thing's like f**** 40 pages long, how you just like introduce me so I totally get it. You know, I think that jumping off and, and starting these conversations with context is always super important ‘cuz I want to make sure that people can relate to us and I think ultimately that's the most important thing. ‘Cuz often people will hear, oh yeah, you're this or you're that but most people can't relate to this or that we all have our struggles, we all have the things that we go through. We all have these dynamic shifts in the history of our life generally speaking, most of that doesn't happen till we acknowledge our trauma. And if you truly want to have confidence, which I think is one of the most important things on planet Earth, you have to look in the mirror. And so, I'm curious about the journey that's led you to where you are and really I'd like to start with a question that's been sitting with me a lot lately that I've been wanting to ask people, and that's what's something that defines your childhood that you don't speak about very often.

Kimmy: Ooh. Oh, I love that. Yeah, and I'm so glad that we're like starting here because like you, I mean, I could get up here and I could rattle off all these like professional accolades but again, I believe that our adversity are gifts and disguise and that it's not until you're through it and then you look back and you're like, ah, there's the gift, you know? And so, for me, I mean, everything that I've been through from childhood to my divorce, which I'll get into, has been somewhat of a gift ‘cuz I've learned from it.

One thing that, I mean, I've shared it, but probably not with a lot of people and I think it actually set the path to later on with what happened in my marriage is that I lost my father when I was young at 16. And actually, we were really close and he was kind of like a really, like solid, he was my hero. You know, when people ask me, who's the most important person in your life, it's always my dad, you know. And so, I think first of all, the gift is that he was a wonderful dad and he shaped who I am. But having a loss at that formative age took a heavy hit on me. And I didn't realize it at the time, you know, until later on when I got into relationships, and really there were some abandonment issues going on, and that's one of the top fears that I see that go on with dating and relationships.

And so, I didn't put that piece of the puzzle together until after the divorce and I started, you know, really kind of diving into it and I realized, wow, this is all connected. And I know this as a therapist and even though I'm a therapist, you can't really be a therapist to yourself, still, you know, like you really have to look at other avenues and other people in your lives to help you through that and shape you. So, that's definitely was one hit that started it all.

Michael: And thank you for sharing that. You know, loss is inevitable, right? And I think that unfortunately, death tax is coming for everybody, but at such a young age and I was impacted by death tremendously as a child. I lost my uncle to a drunk driving accident; I lost family and friends to drugs and alcohol; I lost my mother to an overdose. Like, it happens like it's a part of this human experience and I find that it profoundly impacts you in that age, you don't get it, right? I don't think that you're yet in this position where you're cognizant enough to really understand what's happening. Were there things when you were at that age that were playing out that changed after that loss?

Kimmy: You know, I think, in some ways I became a little more resilient, like on a positive note, I kind of matured in almost a hyper-focused way. Right? Because, you know, while my cohorts and peers were dealing with being upset if they broke a nail or a guy didn't ask them out, I'm upset because my father's dying and I couldn't do anything about it. And so, it gave me a definitely like an appreciation that I think other people didn't have. And moving forward, I think that's why I'm able to handle a lot of things that come my way because I learned how to bounce back, how to be resilient and how you say turn trauma into triumph later on.

Michael: Yeah. Here's an interesting thought I've had about resiliency lately. I had a conversation with Dr. Gabor Maté a few months ago, probably five months ago now, and I just was thinking about this word resiliency after, and it was like, there's a fine line between resiliency and hyper independent. And I'm wondering if you found yourself and if that was something that impacted you being like, okay, this thing is impacting me so much I must only take care of myself any means necessary or did you just find yourself being able to better cope with hard circumstances?

Kimmy: Such a great question. I love that because it can play out in different ways. I mean, for me, I really did feel like it was resilience, I felt like I learned from it. I don't think I developed a hyper independence, and what I did find myself is keeping people more at a distance because of the fear of loss. And so maybe it looked like hyper independence, but that's not really what it was, there was a guard that had gone up. And sometimes people look like that, they're almost like, oh, I don't need anybody. Right? I'm gonna be mis independent and get everything done, that really wasn't what was going on, it was actually more of the fear of getting close to someone that I perhaps would lose. So, then I would choose relationships or people that I knew wouldn't really work in the end, that's a subconscious thing, right? And so, in psychology, there's something called the familiarity principle. We all default back to what we know, good, bad, or indifferent, and so I just kept playing out that loop over and over and over again. You know, that kinda thrusted me into a marriage that I knew ultimately didn't work and selecting somebody way too young, and not really knowing myself first. So, it's an interesting word that like, you know, that kind of hyper independence ‘cuz I think if you're not really looking at why or you might like misinterpret that too.

Michael: Yeah. And I think most people do, and I'll speak from my firsthand experience, you know, looking at the way that I grew up, I had walls up for everybody and myself selection and relationships was always like, I need to make sure I can be in control at all times, not necessarily in like this weird dynamic of what you see of people like, I have to control everything all the time, but like, I need to have, make sure that the variables go my way. Right. It's the defensive mechanism, it's safety, and then you realize, actually that's really dumb you don't get to control people, so maybe you should work on your sh*t dude. And that's inevitably what happened, you know, speaking and talking about this topic that I actually am very fond of part of me is actually wanted to start a dating podcast for a while now, but looking at dating and understanding the dynamics of human interaction, you know, I think one of the things that always inevitably happens is you are impacted by your past and one of the things that you talked about was, you know, losing your father at such a young age made you go down this path to be with people that you automatically knew were not going to work out. And you said something that I think is really important that I want to go into a little deeper, you said subconsciously. We all have these subconscious actions. We do these things autonomically whether they're defensive mechanisms or survival mechanisms, there are things, they are isms that we do. And so, what I'm curious is there are people in this familiarity complex makes so much sense to me because I can trace back so many women that, this is so uncomfortable to say I've said it a million times, I f***ing hate saying it, so uncomfortable. I can date trace back, all so many women I dated between call it 28 to 16 years old, where I'm like, they are my mother.

Kimmy: And it doesn't that amazing how that happens. And it's almost like you think you're choosing someone different and then you unzip the costume and it's like, oh my God, how did she get here again? It's my mother, you know? And it's weird how they come in different costumes too. You don't realize.

Michael: And here's where I want to go with this ‘cause I think this is really important because that subconscious word makes me wanna put my fist through a wall because it's like we're being guided by this thing we don't have control of until we understand that we don't have control of it, and then we can take control of it. And so, what I'm trying to understand and what I think would be beneficial for people if the dynamic that you had personally was, I'm dating these people that I know it's not going to work and I'm doing it subconsciously, well, how the f*ck do you get conscious.

Kimmy: Well, you have to do the work, right?

Michael: What does that mean?

Kimmy: Yeah. Well, we know this in a sense of the concept and what does that mean is a great question because let me tell you, that's a message that everybody kept saying. You gotta do the work, you gotta go to therapy, you gotta talk, da da, da da. But to me, it's actually moving and putting yourself into action in behaviors that counteract the pre-programming. And it's almost like getting a corrective experience through that and exposure around that, I mean, this is how I define confidence. I call myself a confidence therapist because really what it is, I just think confidence is experience, that's all it is, you know. And you get a bad exposure to something and that will knock your confidence down, right? So, it's getting positive exposure and experience around something that actually creates a new habit. And so that's why I like to look at all of these things as patterns and bad habits that we develop over time because of where it's rooted, because it's just familiar to us.

So, the notion is to do behaviors and actions that override that or strategies and put that into place ‘cause I'm very action oriented like you are so that you can feel something different. So, what that looks like and say relationships and love and that kind of thing, is if your type isn't working out for you date somebody who looks a little different. And I do this all the time with people, like I'll give you an example. There's a woman who like, she was always attracted to the shiny object and what I mean by that, only guys that were good looking and guess what? All the guys that were good looking in her past were narcissists and emotionally unavailable. And so, her type was not working for her, but it was really hard to break that pattern ‘cuz her dad was a narcissist, right? So, this is a very familiar pattern to her. And so, one day she finally meets this guy after doing work with her, and I was having her practice actually dating people online who were not her type, her physical type. And she talks to this guy and she really likes this conversation, but she's not physically attracted to him. And so, he asked her out and she's like, oh, Kimmy, I can't do it. I just can't do it. I said, you're doing it, you're doing it because we need to try on something different like a dress that might not have hangar appeal, but you don't know how it's gonna fit. So she goes and has the best date of her life and she's like, that is the most connected I've ever felt on a date. And it was a new experience that she was able to really feel that guy ended up being her boyfriend later on. Now I still had her dating other people and really like kind of working through it, but that is an example of really that positive exposure that disrupted a pattern from her past.

Michael: Yeah. And I think that's so much of everything, right? It's do the opposite, dummy but you know, as well as I do like that, easier said than done, you know, I look at my life and my journey, we'll stay in relationships for a moment, but I look at them and I go, dude, you keep doing the same sh*t over and over and over and over and over and over again. Part of me now, and how I'm gonna phrase this is based on my behaviors, not theirs. My behaviors were become avoidant, shut down. Go and f*ck somebody else, cheat, lie, do all that sh*t and that was for a very, very long time until I realized that oh actually, I'm just being a coward and I'm afraid to break up with this person ‘cuz they're not actually what I want. Combined with and parlayed with, oh, you had an abusive avoidant drug addict, alcoholic mother. S, you think you gotta do everything on your own and until you do everything on your own, you don't feel like you're gonna be worth it to anyone. But if that other person doesn't also do everything and like live on this pedestal, then they're not worthy and then you're like, okay, wait a second time out, pause, what do you actually need to do here? And what you need to do is like, reflect and just pause and go like, where does this behavior come from? Why do you date? Why do you exist like this? And then make a decision, like you said, take action which I am very action oriented, but I think you have to have action with clarity. And so, when you're thinking, I wanna go back into your life a little bit because you know I'll be honest with you, we've covered action things on this show so many times where I'm like, well, let's talk about the human experience for a moment, we'll get deeper into action ‘cuz it's important. But I want to go back in this a little bit deeper. So looking at your life and your journey and being in this position where you realize you've been dating these people who really, you've already predetermined the outcome and when you noticed, did you do something about it? And if not, what became the pivotal turning point? And when you're like, okay, Kimmy, it's time to change.

Kimmy: Yeah, I mean, honestly this leads up to the kind of the story and what led me into doing what I do was the divorce. Once the divorce happened, and now I have kids, so I have other humans in the mix. I had to really take a hard look at myself. And the thing that was interesting about my pivotal moment is well, I talk about my red dress moment, and you'll hear why in a bit. But it took something like that where I was in a really dark place. I mean, I couldn't take care of my kids, I had to have my mom fly in and help me, it was completely paralyzed like everything that I knew, everything that I thought I was, was completely shattered and turned upside down. And I move across the country, I'm in this new town with no support system and a whole new identity as a single mom with small kids, I'm like, okay, something has got to change and I tried a lot of different things, right? So, as in a traditional sense, I did the work on myself, I had all these, like, you know, people in my life, at least back in Chicago where I'm from, give me support and still I couldn't get outta my own way. Like, it was almost like this cognitive dissonance that was happening in my brain. And I know, I mean, again, I'm going back to the action piece, but this was more of a visual sense. I couldn't shift internally until I moved externally and the moment that that happened was really taking a look in the mirror I saw before me, it was just one day I woke up and I said, Oh my God, what has have I become, because I was not wearing this pink shirt. I will tell you that I was wearing ginormous black clothes. I saw my nursing bras on, and I wasn't nursing anymore with my flip flops and disheveled hair. And I was like, who's gonna date me? You know, like, who is going to find me lovable? And so, I said, the talking therapy's not working, everybody around me and giving me advice still not working. H*ck with it. I'm going shopping because nothing fits, that's what it, this is where it all started, like shopping therapy. So, I go to the store, talk about like recreating patterns. I think I'm upleveling myself, no. In the store I am pulling all the same black clothes that I am used to and comfy in, and I'm thinking, oh, well they're new clothes, you know, I'm doing something new for myself. And it actually took this personal shopper that really changed my life. She came up to me and she says, ma'am, I've been watching you and I really think you should try this on. And she holds up a red dress that looked like really small and not, I said, that is really sweet of you, but that's not my size, and it’s really red, it's not my color. She said, honey, that is your color, that is your size. Try it on. Boom! You know, mic drop. It's like she hit me over the head with that red dress, and when I came to this where my red dress moment comes in, I'm like, you know what? She's right, I need to see myself differently. And so, I slipped in the dress, I twirled around like Cinderella, and I looked in the mirror and I was like, whoa, there I am. I'm a princess, like I couldn't believe what I saw. And again, it was that self-reflection in a visual sense that really shook me. So, I bought the dress, I kid you not almost as a costume, because I still don't believe it. I'm like, all right, I'm gonna go out in the world. I'm gonna practice wearing it. So, I went out in the world and I practiced wearing the red dress. I went to the grocery store in it. I went to the bookstore in it. I went everywhere in it. And here's the kicker and what I realized is that all the black clothes that I was wearing before was really a cloak to keep me invisible from you alien men ‘cuz I was freak*ng scared. I was scared of being seen that is what really like shook me. I'm like, someone's gonna really see me and I'm not just talking outside, I'm talking inside.

So I had to get used to being seen and it started with that red dress and that's kind of like where my business was born. And I used to work from the inside out before that and I now I flip the script and I work from the outside in ‘cuz I believe that how we put ourselves out, how we market ourselves has a correlation in a symbiotic relationship between our confidence of the outer and the inner. And honestly, and I know that sounds like, oh my God, the red dress did it for you, it really did it. And I see it with my clients too, you know, as they come into their own with it.

Michael: Yeah. No, I mean, I don't think that there's anything ridiculous in that like it's bringing up this, I have this photo buried deep, deep, deep into Facebook, you know, because remember when we used to put everything on Facebook? And so, this photo's gotta be, it has to be 15 years old and I'm with a girl who at the time we were in a relationship, but she didn't know I was actually in a relationship with two other women, it was very volatile emotionally, never physically, but always very, it might as well have been at that f*cking point, you know what I mean? We're there with a couple of friends, we're in Cincinnati, we had just come back from at the amusement park where I actually couldn't get on one of the rides ‘cuz I was too fat. And we're standing on the side of this bridge in Cincinnati, we take this group photo, I'm wearing this white polo and these shorts and this polo was size four XL and these shorts were size 47. And I remember in that moment, like looking at that picture later on, after I got posted and tagged on Facebook, Jesus Christ, and being like, what are you doing to yourself? And it was because, like you said, this outside appearance, like I was wearing these clothes that were, honestly, there was a little bit too big for me, they weren't even my style to begin with, but it was like that's what she liked, that's what she wanted s, I would do that ‘cuz I was a massive people pleaser because that equals safety, when I'm a kid. And I'm looking at this photo, I'm realizing that's not who I am, right? And you talk about this idea of costume and working outside in, like I think there's a parallel, right? You go look at me on stage, a lot of times I'm wearing a black t-shirt, I'm wearing my leather jacket, like being on stage for me, I'm like a rockstar like that is my world. I love it, that's where I come out into my fullest sense of self. And so much of the journey, I believe is doing the external work too, and people don't talk about it that much, but I think there's validity in this like if you are disheveled, I'm gonna call it what it is ‘cause I've been there, and this is not casting judgment ‘cuz ye without sin. Right? And so, I look at my life in this period of time when I was in the worst dating environments where I'm doing whatever it takes to have sex with people ‘cause I have zero confidence, which we're gonna get into, I'm doing all these things to destroy my life and how do I look? Well, I'm morbidly obese, I'm chain smoking, I know I smell like sh*t because I'm smoking every day, I'm eating terrible food. I'm wearing all these clothes. I'm like, okay, hold on. Pause, dude. Why don't you go to the gym, eat healthy, buy the clothes that you like, hang out with the people you want to hang out with, and show up in the way that you show up and Kimmy, it's ownership, like ultimately that's what it is. Like that dress for you, that became a catalyst, right? I mean, that's an easy, you know, that sparks the flame, right? And for me it was that photo because I was so disgusted with myself, which might have been, and I don't wanna put words in your mouth, but I'm curious, and I don't think this is necessarily a bad thing if you do something with it, I was disgusted with myself when I looked in that photo. When you looked in that mirror and I think this is important, what was the emotion that you had about who you were?

Kimmy: Oh, I love that question ‘cuz I think the feeling part is so important and to really like, feel in that only, especially if you're a people pleaser like you were saying and certainly, I feel that category too, anyone in the helping industry, I think to some level, you know, we have a propensity towards that. When we kind of pull in and feel into how we feel, then we can express that that's when we also are able to get closer to people, right? So, it's like all kind of connected. And for me, when I looked in the mirror, I was shocked, right? It was like that, like almost like surprise because I was in a fog like I didn't even see myself and how I let myself go like that, a little bit angry. I remember feeling angry at myself too like, how did I let myself get here? And here's the kicker, before this, I considered myself a pretty confident woman, you know? I thought I had my life together, I practiced as a therapist, I had the picket fence, the dog, the kids, you know, and everything was going on as planned. And when your life is turned upside down and you know, everything just stops, it's like, oh my God, who am I now? And so, especially with divorce or a bad breakup or any kind of trauma, it can throw your confidence upside down in who you think you were so, that's also a beautiful time to reinvent yourself as well. So those feelings I had like that fear and the shock was the impetus also into getting me to the store. I'm like, I can't look at myself like this anymore.

Michael: Yeah. I hate to use the word rock bottom in this, but I mean, it was probably to some extent, right? And I think that the breakups that we have that are devastating, right? We have marriage and if you grew up in America and the right time and you watch the right movies, marriage is everything. Get married, have the kids, get the white picket fence, and then you'll be good and then it doesn't work. And for me it wasn't, and has never really been marriage I could care less to be honest with you, but it's about the emotional connection and commitment that I've had to someone. And a few years ago, I broke up with someone even to this day, I love dearly and she's an amazing, amazing human being, and it destroyed my confidence, right? We had a lot of tumultuous things happening between us. I spoke a lot of my truth. She spoke a lot of hers. Despite our best efforts and intentions could not meet each other where we needed to be met, we ended, and then I was like, I feel like I got hit by a car. And it was rough, coaching was rough, having this podcast was rough, speaking on stages was rough like my mental health was all over the place and I was like, I'm just gonna keep going. I'm gonna keep pushing through this. I'm gonna come out the other side and eventually I have, and I did. But what happened in there, you talked about this reinvention and what happened for me is in this space of single dumb, after being with the person I thought I was gonna spend the rest of my life with, I actually got a lot of clarity. And one of the things that I realized, and you hear this and I don't know Kimmy, that people really sit in this until they have this thought personally because, you know, leave the horse to the water but I realize love is just not enough like, there is no planet that we live on in which you can only have that and everything's gonna be fine. And I realize that so many of us settled and I settled, look, again, I'm not being defamatory towards her cause I love that woman dearly, but what it was is I realized what I actually wanted were the things that she's never gonna be able to give me ‘cuz that's not who she is and that's not a bad thing. And I think so often is what happens is we get caught up on the other side of it and we're sitting and we're in it and we're like, why couldn't they be what I needed? Why weren't they what I want? And it's like, no m***erf*cker, what you actually need to understand is they were never going to be that, but you wanted them to be.

Kimmy: Correct. And on top of that, really taking a look at yourself, you know, and having responsibility with that too. Along those lines, I'll never forget, a woman called me up and she's like, Kimmy, find me a soulmate. And I said, okay, I definitely can help you with that, but there might be some things to do along the way or put together. Now here's the kicker is that she just had a bad string of relationships, nothing ever worked, all there are is like, you know, as**le guys up there, blah, blah. And I said, look, I believe you that all you're saying, our a**h**e guys I believe you. I absolutely, a hundred percent. I said, and we can't change those guys sadly, but what we can do is take a look at you and what we can do like together or for you to do differently to get a different result, it's kinda like what we were saying before. And here's the even deeper thing that came out of it, was that she never really loved herself, she never really knew who she was, she was always defining herself with these relationships. And so, her journey was really falling in love with herself. Now, I didn't tell her that, but at the end as we were going through the process together, and of course I did, you know, the makeover stuff, and we're working with her flirting techniques and disrupting patterns in her relationships and dating up a storm and happy with herself. In the end, guess what happened? She found her soulmate and she's so happy and she's so excited, and we had our last call and she's like, Kimmy, I'm so excited, and I said, that's awesome. What are you excited about? She's like, well, oddly enough, it's not even because I found my soulmate or this guy I said, really? What are you happy about? He said, well, for the first time, I'm happy about me and I love me and I still get chills when I talk about it and we both were almost like tearing up on the phone and she's like, I don't think I've ever felt this way. And again, like we are all mirrors, we are reflections, you know, like if you're not happy with who you're with, you gotta take a look at what you're putting out there, you know? And so, what you're saying is so true and like we all have to take responsibility for that.

Michael: The common denominator in every success and failure in your life is you.

Kimmy: A hundred percent.

Michael: People don't want to hear it, but it's true. I didn't want to hear it either. These relationships don't work, it's their fault. This business I started doesn't work, it's my customer's fault. All like my health is bad, it's my genetic. Right. There's always an excuse to be made. And when I decided to step into and look, excuses are valid, let's call it what it isI'm not gonna take that away from people, they're valid, but at some point, you have to realize like it's you, like it is you. And that for me became really transformational and I understood something really, really deep one day as I was like thinking about and literally charting out the person, I want to be with top to bottom. I said to myself, be the person this person would be attracted to. And that became a really interesting cornerstone in my life ‘cuz it's like, people want, I don't believe in dating up or dating down. People are like, oh, they're outta my league. I'm like, no, no, they're not outta your league you just ain't in the ball game. Right. And so, it's like that's the thing I'm always thinking about is like, what does it actually take to be in the relationship that you want to be in? And it takes a year you, it takes you because this person, it's gonna take them and then you'll meet in the middle if the stars align and it's supposed to be but otherwise it's not. And I love Dan Savage tremendously and he always says every relationship you have is going to fail until it doesn't. And I think that that's a really interesting point, but I always want to add a little bit to that, it’s like but you will learn from that, you will grow from that. And so, I'm curious, as you work in this red dress moment, you're looking at your life, you're reflecting, you're like, I'm gonna do this external work, something about this feels valid and makes sense to me. I assume your confidence was low at the time, and so, I'm wondering what that journey was for you, because relationships, you know this in your field probably more than anything relationships destroy people. And so, I'm wondering, a – where you were and how you rebuilt your confidence. And then b – why do relationships destroy people's confidence?

Kimmy: Yeah. Ooh, wow. Those are big questions. How much time do we have? Like, I have so many stories I wanna tell.

Michael: As long as you need to answer the question.

Kimmy: Yeah. Oh my gosh. Okay. Because when I look back on the life, I don't know if you find this, I always think in metaphors and movies, it was almost as if I was Dorothy, you know, hopping down the yellow brick road with my basket. And with each experience in each relationship, I would put a tool in my little basket and I'd keep skipping and I suppose we're all looking for oswell, you know, as well as there really is no oz. So, like, what is that really? But what we can do is look at where we are right now and what we want. And when I was skipping down my yellow brick road after I had the red dress moment and realizing I was really scared to wear that freaking dress, it was the domino effect. So, it started with just getting used to being seen, and then I had to learn how to put myself out there and talk to the aliens. I'm like, great. So now I'm getting the attention, I called you men aliens. I'm like, that's great, but now what the h*ll do I do with you? Like, I don't even know, so I'm like, you know, I couldn't talk to you, I didn't know how to flirt. So flirting is actually a big part of my business. I do flirt workshops. I believe that this is one of the first things that people need to be comfortable in. And for my journey, I realized that, I could talk to people, I could be friendly, but raising sexual attention and being like in my sexy confidence so that's another category of confidence by the way there are like different categories of confidence too, we can get into that. But that was crucial in terms of just that first stage of attraction like how am I supposed to get a date if I can't even be comfortable with my body and my sex appeal and all of that jazz, right?

And so, then I had to learn how to flirt and so, what did I do? I had to go practice it. I mean, it started out with my first friend, Laura. Laura, if you're out there. Hi, I miss you. She was another single mom who was like, willing and ready and able to go flirt with me. And I did not know what the heck I was doing and I knew I was in trouble when she rang the doorbell and she was just dropped, had gorgeous, she had long blonde hair and she had, you know, like her tight jeans on and nice shirt and I went to hug her and she smelled like vanilla and Iike glancing in the mirror, and I'm like, okay, I don't look like that. I went back to my black clothes. I forgot about my red dress, you know, and I did not smell like vanilla. I remember like running into the bathroom and putting like Fabrice on or something I'm like, okay, I gotta do something, I gotta look the part. And so, like a nerd, I literally was just like, following her around like a puppy dog and I remember, ‘cuz in California, there's a place like the Valley where it's more suburban and she drove from the dark suburbs into the sparkly lights of the city of Santa Monica, I'm like, there's life after dark. And so, we stop at this bar and this was lesson number one. I see this long line, I'm like, Laura, I literally cannot stand in that line. I'm too old for this, my babysitter's only here for a certain month, she's like, I'm like, what? She's like, just follow me. And so, she gets out of the car and she like, you know, does her little clank, clank, clank in her heels and she goes to the front of the line, she whispers something to the bouncer and we get whisked in. So, I'm like, okay, wow, I don't know and I still don't know what she said, but somehow, we're in the bar with a bunch of aliens and now I'm like, now so many aliens in one portal, what do I do? So, I took a lot of notes that night and one thing that happened is that we sat in the bar and she's like, watch this and she showed me the power of body language. So, I wasn't comfortable in my body, right? So, I had to get comfortable in the red dress, now I have to work on my body language. And she did something called the Three Second Rule. Do you know what that is? Have you ever heard of that?

Michael: No. Tell me.

Kimmy: Yeah. Is this a too long of a story? ‘Cause this is another pivotal moment, I'm telling you all these like little stories that happened. And so, there was this cute guy across the way and she did the three second rule where she looked at him and then she looked away and then she looked back, it was like 1, 2, 3, I didn't make this up by the way like this is out there and research, like you can like read about the three second rule. But I kid you not in 30 seconds, he was right there next to us, I'm like, how did you do that? You know, and so the big lesson in that moment was that there's more than the red dress, it's being comfortable in my skin, it's being comfortable in my body, it's being comfortable with men, really embracing that side of me. And I had to stay there for a while, I had to swim in it, you know, this wasn't like, this was new for me ‘cuz I didn't have a lot of dating experience either and I'm a single mom, you know. So again, me redefining myself that kind of reinvention was starting to happen. And then from there, of course I have a lot of other stories, but then, you know, going out and practicing flirting than I got more friends and I called them my sex and the city gals and we would go every single week and practice flirting in different venues until I got super comfortable with it and now, I teach it. Right?

And so, when you talk about, you know, it's so true. You can fall victim to something or you can lean into it and it be your gift. And I almost fell victim to it, but I decided to, in the fork in the road pivot turn and go the other path. And I think that's why I'm so passionate about doing what I do. So, all of these stories, all of these experiences and practice kinda like opportunities is what led me here today.

Michael: Yeah. I love it, and the stories aren't too long. I love it. I love good stories. I had two thoughts as you were going through that. One is thinking about how, like, was it Laura? Is that your friend's name?

Kimmy: Laura. Laura.

Michael: Laura, yes, everybody needs a Laura because that's your Yoda. So you need somebody to be like, Hey, let me just show you. It's fine. And that applies ‘cuz look, if you can learn how to talk to a people you are attracted to and be rejected, which I'm sure you were a million times, you get confidence ‘cuz you realize rejection isn't the end of the world. And I think more so what happens is in that confidence building, you become better communicator, you become better at your business, you become better at having friendships and relationships, you are able to better be resilient when you have obstacles in your way and more so, and I think probably one of the things that people really don't understand about the power of rejection is that you realize that it ain't the end of the damn world, right? And so, I'm glad you suffered because there is something about, and the definition of suffering means to be uncomfortable or experienced discomfort, I'm glad you went through that ‘cuz you wouldn't be where you are without it. And the second thing, this is such a ridiculous story.

So, my 21^st birthday, my friend Andy takes me out and he takes us to the best bar in Indianapolis. So, I'm in Broad Ripple, Indianapolis, I won't say the bar, but we're there. And I'd never been in a bar like this before, I'd snuck into some, snuck into some bars as a kid, but I'd never been in a club where like, you got gorgeous women and like all these dudes, it was just like sensory overload and there was this gorgeous girl and he's like, and I'm looking at her and I'm like, I literally go, dude, I want to go. He goes, why? I go, cause them, I don't feel comfortable in here. He goes, why? I go, cause that girl over there looked at me and I made me feel weird. I like literally have this conversation; I have no confidence at 21. Right? And there's a lot of reasons for that, this audience knows about it. And so, he looks at me and goes, go talk to her and I'm like, f**k no, you're crazy, I go, are you high? I literally go, are you high? I'm not talking to her. And he goes, why not? He goes, I will never forget this till the day I die. He goes, I go, I can't talk to her, she'll never be interested in me and he goes, shut up, and listen to what I'm about to say. Kimmy, I swear if I track the dots of very specific successes in my life, it's to this moment and what Andy told me. He goes, I'll teach you a trick to be able to talk to anyone at anytime, anywhere, ever for the rest of your life. And I go, bullsh*t and he goes, no, I'll teach you a trick right now. He goes, you want to go talk to them? I cannot believe I'm about to tell this story. He goes, if you want the trick to go talk to the most beautiful person in the world, you have to remember that they're just humans and half an hour ago, they took the worst burrito sh*t of their life.

Kimmy: Oh my God. I dunno if that would work for women, but certainly for men I love that.

Michael: But you get the point, right? ‘Cause we humanize and what happens when we're in these human connections as we're like we think people are somehow, to your point, the word you use aliens, like we can't connect with them, they're so far out left field, we don't know how to do it. And it's like, no, no, no, they're going through the same shit we are. They're having the same dramas; they're having the same successes and victories and failures and defeats. And it's like when you can be comfortable with that, knowing that they are on the same plane as you you can talk to anyone. And that's how I've been able to speak on stages in front of 10,000 people or do podcasts like this because it's like, you're human, you're human. There's nothing about you that's different than me at all. Right? And you probably ate a burrito recently had a bad time. I respect that entirely. But my point is, these experiences that shape us, we always need that person. We always need that person just to whisper that thing in our ear and go, Hey Kimmy, it's okay that you just didn't have a great experience with that guy or with that girl, or with that business, or with that thing because you go, yeah, I get it.

Kimmy: You know, we are our own worst enemies every single time. Right? Like, we always think it's like breaking news in our head, like, oh my God, I can't do, you know, it's like this huge thing. And in reality, no one gives a sh*t. Sorry for I have to swear now just ‘cuz we're getting into it. The thing is, is that I call it the zit syndrome, you know, when you have, is that you look in the mirror and you're like, oh my God, it's awful, everyone's gonna look at it and it's disgusting. I can't go out and oh my God. And you go out like no one really sees it, except if you make a point of saying, oh, did you see this? I'm so sorry. And so, like we think so much in our heads, and I think that's probably the biggest culprit that stops people honestly, is that there's so many especially high achievers, are in their head and they worry about what other people think and feel, rather than just being. And so that is part of the work, that's why I love the body experience, the practice experience, ‘cuz it gets people outta here. Again, we can listen to podcasts and I have a podcast too, podcasts are great. Keep listening y'all. However, at what point do you get off the couch and start moving and doing some of this stuff. Right? And so, when you do that thing that he made you do, I love it. Like Andy and Laura, we should have like a party for that because they were like our heroes that led us somewhere.

Michael: Totally. And you know what happened after you told me that? ‘Cuz you need the push, right? Y'all, I think you do need that. I went up and I talked to her and nothing hap she was just like, Hey, my boyfriends over there. I was like, oh. right? Like not the end of the world. You know what I'm saying? And so, but that carried a lot of weight for me and I think that subjective, it's really CBT, if you really narrow it down, it's like, go put yourself in the situation you're scared of and watch you not die. Right.

Kimmy: A hundred percent. Yes.

Michael: You'll be fine. And I think that that's the thing like I push people on this show a lot to take action, to take massive action. And Kimmy, you know, as well as I do, and this is devastating to me, 97.3% of people listening to this will never do anything to change their life in the capacity of which it could be potentially because they're scared. And the moniker that has been able to be a cornerstone for me is do it anyway. Do it. I'm scared all the time. It's crazy. It is so crazy how sometimes I'm terrified to do something and then I'm like, just do it because here's the truth and you know you're gonna die. You're gonna die. So, you might as well do it because worst case scenario, you learn something, best case scenario, you get exactly what you were looking for.

Kimmy: Well, in fact, the only time you really shift and change is when you move towards the fear and the discomfort, as we were talking about before, because otherwise you're just staying the same. Anytime you're getting comfy, oh my God, get uncomfortable. Go towards something that is fearful because that is what is going to move the needle, and that's how we grow unless you don't want to, unless you're really awesome staying where you are, then stay where you are. Most people, you know, like when they're unhappy, they're not happy where they are. So, I love that whole notion of fear and you know what's interesting too is I have a group that I'd been working with as a dating group and we did a whole workshop on dating fears and the fears that go on in our head again, are so much bigger. And like say it's a fear of rejection, so when you ask yourself and what's so scary about that? And you keep asking yourself and what's so scary about that, it gets to the point of ridiculousness ‘cuz in the end, there really isn't anything scary, you know, and it's peeling away the layers and or the onion, so to speak. And so, if you're scared about approaching a woman, well what's so scary about that? Well, she'll reject me. She won't. She'll say no. And what's so scary about a woman that says no to you? Well, then I put myself out there and then she doesn't like me. Well, what's so scary about someone not liking you? You know, like keep asking yourself that question ‘cause the core is there and it really isn't the woman. Right. Like, it's rooted in something else, 99%.

Michael: Exactly. And what you will find is it's when you were seven years old and you went up to little Stacy in elementary school and you tried to give her a cupcake and she put it in your face that it forever destroyed your relationship and all women's sock. Right. And so, that's what it's like, there's a Stacy who did this. I'm sorry, like I don't know you, but that's the point. There's always causation and correlation to everything that happens in our lives. And I have found that the only way anything positive has come in my life is by doing the exact thing that terrifies me. I just don't know how else to operate anymore, and it's learned, right? Because think about this, the first time you put on that red dress, you were f***ng scared and you were like, imposter syndrome, right? I don't even need you to say it ‘cuz I know it ‘cuz we all have that. And then you're in it and then all of a sudden, you're like, I'm gonna challenge myself even more and even though people think I'm crazy and it's three o'clock in the afternoon, I'm gonna wear this thing to the grocery store like, whatever. Right. And that's how it's been for me. I'm like, people think I'm crazy all the time. And I'm like, what does that have to do with me? Nothing. And so let me go and step into my fears, my discomfort, and see what happens on the backside ‘cuz at the end of the day, it's probably not as bad as you think it's gonna be.

Kimmy: Yeah. And here's the kicker, when you really like learn to embrace the rejection and all the fears, that's when it does turn into the superpower and the gift. And so cut two from that moment of the red dress, a couple months ago, I just went on stage on TEDx and told my story in a red dress in the right moment. And like I was petrified, you know, I was really scared ‘cause I'm like, I speak a lot and I have no problem. But there was something about TEDx and being on that red dot, that terrified me.

Michael: Like that?

Kimmy: Yeah. Right, exactly. 10X. Right. So, I think, it's all the mindset like you were saying too, and how you think of things and you can turn, you know, anything into something that's super powerful.

Michael: Yeah. But like you said, ultimately confidence only comes through action. And I believe that tremendously, and my hope is that people will take from these, a couple of anecdotes that I think hit hard for me. One being like, you're not gonna die obviously, we've talked about that. Two, get yourself a Yoda, an Andy, a Laura, right? And three, like, go figure out what your red dress is. Go figure out what that, like for me, it's Jordan's and leather jackets, right? And so, whatever that is for you to step into your superhero dumb, like go run with it. Go do it, because clock's f*cking ticking. Clock is ticking. Kimmy my friend, that's been amazing, amazing conversation, before I ask you my last question, can you please tell everyone where they can find you?

Kimmy: Absolutely. And thank you so much, this is awesome. Well, pretty much, you can find me anywhere on social media at Kimmy Seltzer and my website is also kimmyseltzer.com and you can go to my podcast, which you are on The Charisma Quotient.

Michael: Love it. Amazing. And of course, we'll put the links in the show notes at thinkunbrokenpodcast.com. Go to thinkunbrokenpodcast.com look up Kimmy's name, and you will find this episode with the links to everything she just dropped on us. My last question for you, my friend, what does it mean to you to be unbroken?

Kimmy: Oh, is there such a thing? Can I push back? Like, because I don't really think of anything as unbroken because things that are not together are perfect. You know, ‘cuz that means we get to figure out how to put things together to make it work for us.

Michael: Love it. Thank you so much for being here, my friend.

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