Michael on The Brass and Unity Podcast

Kelsi: All right, humans. You guys always ask for interesting humans. And I always deliver. So Michael Anthony is here. Welcome to the show, my friend. 

Michael U: Thanks. Excited to be here with you. 

Kelsi: I know. I'm grateful you let us use your studio and you gave us the opportunity to do it in person. And I love that. My listeners absolutely love in person stuff, which is really difficult when you live in Canada currently, ‘cause nobody wants to come there. 

Michael U: Reasonable. 

Kelsi: Yeah. It's justifiable, isn't it? It's wild. 

Michael U: Whenever I hear people are like, if Trump's elected, I'm moving to Canada. I'm like, are you sure? 

Kelsi: Do you know what you're saying? Yeah, it's a trip. I feel you, but I wanted to chat with you. You have this amazing book, which camera should we show this at? It's amazing. I think I'm broken. What I really loved about you when I found out about you through David Meltzer was your mindset. So, I know we just had this conversation on yours but your mindset is radically different than anybody I've ever had conversations with. I don't know that I've known somebody with the level of childhood trauma that you went through and then who's actually been successfully transitioning into adulthood, but there's obviously bumps along those way and a lot of them. And I think those are to be honored because they made you exactly who you are as difficult as they were. So, I want to start at the beginning and I want to understand how you came into this beautiful world of ours and really what were the, some of the things that shaped you. So, let's start when you were a little. Where were you born? 

Michael U: Yeah, I grew up in Indianapolis, the Midwest, cold, dreary, dark Indianapolis.

Kelsi: Is it that dark there? 

Michael U: It snows a lot. 

Kelsi: Okay, so it's winter. 

Michael U: Yeah. 

Kelsi: Okay, so you grew up there. What did you grow up into? 

Michael U: Similar, similarly to you chaos. I'm going to preface this because I lose people very quickly if I don't. 

Kelsi: Okay. 

Michael U: Everything I'm going to tell you is true. 

Kelsi: Okay. 

Michael U: And everything I'm about to tell you is real fucked up.

Kelsi: I welcome it.

Michael U: And so, what people will step into comparison because it's human nature and they will hear my story and then they'll go my story wasn't that bad. And I don't want you to do that. I want you to recognize that my journey is my journey and yours is yours. So, when I was four years old my mother, who's a drug addict and alcoholic actually cut partial of my right index finger. So, you can see I've had multiple skin grafts. I'm missing half the nail. It's fucking crooked and weird. She had multiple personality disorder. She was manic depressive, bipolar, suicidal, institutionalized, 10 times in and out of rehab. More times than I can count. I went to AA the first time when I was like eight years old.

Kelsi: Oh, wow.

Michael U: With her. She married my stepdad who is like my size, six foot three to 20. Imagine a guy that size beating up a seven year old, just a complete fucking coward of a man. And, we spent most of our childhood homeless and deeply in poverty. I lived with over 20 different families between eight to 12 years old. In and out of the church grew up Mormon, which is super fucking weird when you add that on. And then by the time that I was 12, my grandmother adopted me. Which is a godsend in some ways. I had been living in an abandoned house by myself for six weeks in August of my junior year, not junior freshman year of high school.

Kelsi: So what age would that be? Sorry.

Michael U: So it was, like 13. 

Kelsi: And you were completely on your own. 

Michael U: Yeah, my mom had just disappeared. And so I was just in this house by myself. 

Kelsi: Were you going to school?

Michael U: I was going to school to shower. And to eat and to play football. 

Kelsi: And did any of the teachers Nobody knew. 

Michael U: Nobody knew. You don't talk about this stuff where I come from. Like my, one of the things that my stepdad did effectively was get me to the place through violence where I just never told the truth. And so I learned how to be a liar as a survival mechanism. And so the cops would come and I'd be covered in bruises and cuts or whatever, wearing the same clothes for a week at a time to school, stealing kids school food and putting into my backpack. One time I got busted stealing this kid's jacket from the lost and found. And I worked at school the next day ‘cause I didn't have a jacket. And I, and he was like, this is my jacket. I'm like, no, it's not. It was like, obviously this kid's jacket. And but that's what I come from. And so my grandmother. My grandmother adopts me. And when she did in a lot of ways, it was amazing. Cause for the first time I had a deeper level of stability than I'd ever had, but I'm biracial black and white. And she's an old racist white lady from a town in Tennessee. You never heard of. And we had a copy of Hitler's autobiography, mind comp in our kitchen table, my uncle's a part of the Aryan brotherhood. And we weren't allowed to have black people in our house. 

Kelsi: Okay. This is hitting really hard. I need you to slow down for a second. 

Michael U: I know. I told you. 

Kelsi: Okay. 

Michael U: I did warn you. 

Kelsi: It's a fire hose. Keep going. Okay. Wow. Wait, no stop. I have questions. 

Michael U: I have answers. 

Kelsi: Okay. Whoa. Okay. Let's back up for a second. The Mormon church.  No one caught on to this. 

Michael U: So, this is something I share publicly. So it's in the book too. I was molested by one of the mothers of the Mormon church. 

Kelsi: The mother. 

Michael U: Yeah. Okay. Like one of the women in this church, like when we were, we would get pawned off at these people's houses. My mom would disappear and rehab, whatever, like she used the church. That's why we were members of it, there's no question. ‘Cause our food came from the church, clothing would come from the church, like they would pay our bills through tithes and things like that. And yeah. I come home, my mom was like in this period of sobriety, this, that's a month at a time if we're lucky and I tell her what happens and she literally goes, don't ever talk about this again. It didn't happen. And so I, more about me in four minutes than people who knew me for 30 years. Like the secrets we keep.  And growing up in the church, I don't look, the church is a church, it's whatever.

Kelsi: No, I just think it's important sometimes because I think what happens is we have these ideologies and religions that we think are always going to be pure. And they're, some are just not because humans are human beings. I don't think any of them are. 

Kelsi: Yeah, you and I agree on that. But I think ultimately, they provide a service. Yes. Yes. That being said, they can be abused and they are frequently. And so I think it's important to address those things because I've, I'm sorry, I haven't heard of a, I've heard of women abusing young children, but not within the church system the way that the traditional Catholic church, you think of the priest, you think of the male, you think of the young boys, but you don't necessarily think of women in church Abusing young children.

Michael U: One in one in four boys are molested or sexually assaulted in childhood and nobody talks about it. Statistical fact. 

Kelsi: Why do you think no one talks about it? 

Michael U: Same reason boys are told. Don't cry. We're talking about something that has to do Infected our society in a way that we may never come back from now. Look, I believe in being a strong man. I believe in like dealing with your shit. I don't believe in little boys having their emotion stuff down. 

Kelsi: I couldn't agree with that more, 

Michael U: So I think that a big part of it is that it is just so for so forbidden, like you just don't talk. And who the fuck was I going to tell the guys on the wrestling team? I'm going to tell my drug addict mom. She's don't tell anyone. We live, I grew up in the space in the window of Oxycontin and that was her thing. And so my mom would be popping those things and then she was on la land. So, it's it didn't even matter. And I was just used to lying anyway. Yeah. Yeah. But they were all in different places. My sister was raised by her dad, different father. One of my brothers had already been taken by my grandmother. So I didn't spend most of my childhood with him. My next youngest brother got in, put into the system because he attempted suicide when he was eight.

Kelsi: Jesus Christ. 

Michael U: I know this is what I come from. And then, you look at this and this. Is not uncommon, right? 

Michael U: It's just that I decided when I you asked me how I got here. There's more story, right?

Kelsi: Oh, yeah, we're going like…

Michael U: The thing that I made a declaration myself that I was going to do with my life was To do whatever's with my power to make sure That I could end generational trauma forever. And that's through these conversations through the books through the coaching through the so on and so forth Because yeah, my life is pretty fucking great all things considered, 

Kelsi: right?

Michael U: But it wasn't always… 

Kelsi: Right. So you were young, you were going through this, you were being in and out of the church and the church never caught on and your mother didn't do anything about it. And you got picked up by your grandmother. So your grandmother is whose mother, 

Michael U: My mother's 

Kelsi: Your mother.

Michael U: I've never met my father.

Kelsi: I was going to ask you that 

Michael U: once, maybe, but like the more I think about it might not have been him. 

Kelsi: Okay.

Michael U: Which I'll tell you a crazy story about that. 

Kelsi: Okay, I'm gonna come back to that.

Michael U: Come back.

Kelsi: So, you go when you're with your grandmother.  Who is clearly racist? 

Michael U: Yeah, no for sure. We all knew everybody knew my grandma gave me white boy bowl haircuts You know the 90s when like what I don't have that kind of hair.

Kelsi: It doesn't work for your hair.

Michael U: No, imagine the embarrassment of walking around as a kid like that constantly and so like It got to the point where when I was probably, I think I was 19 and she was sit and look, let's call it what it is like, this is indoctrination. This is her growing up in small town Tennessee. I'm not justifying. I'm just saying it's factual. Look at evidence, right? And then I think like one of the things that she did just by even taking me and my brothers was trying to make up for her daughter. Yeah. And her son who's in prison for life and her other son who disappeared when he joined the military never talked to us and her other daughter who was arguably the meanest human being I've ever met in my life, right? And so I will give her credit, but that doesn't mean that it didn't fuck me up. 

Kelsi: Of course,  I think having a copy of mind comp on the table is yeah. 

Michael U: I started reading it. 

Kelsi: What? 

Michael U: I didn't know because I didn't know. I didn't know what it was. I was just like, I'm gonna read this. And I was like, I didn't remember what your first take was on. I didn't understand. I just knew I had a swastika on it and I was like, what the fuck is this? And, but here's what was crazy. Like I went to all black and minority high school and middle school. There's no white kids in my neighborhood, except like two,  I know this is crazy. Cause the line down the sand of like poverty doesn't know race we're in the neighborhood. We got to be in cause we ain't got no money.  That's what it is. And I spent most of, I got high for the first time when I was 12, I started getting drunk at 13. I got kicked out of two different high schools, got put into a last chance program. Still did not graduate. Basically what happened is my business teacher, the irony of all ironies, Mr. Bush shout out to, I've mentioned in probably every podcast that I've ever been on he was the only teacher ever stood up to me and my senior year, I went the first day of the last semester and I go, Hey dude, I just want you to know I'm not coming to your class. I was just straight up about it. I was just not, it was like at 7 a.m. Like I'm not coming to your fucking class, dude. I'm like, I'm selling that. I'm selling drugs. I'm like hanging out with my girlfriend at night. I'm working a job at Hollywood video as a cover. Cause I was like, this is the way you don't get busted selling drugs. It made sense to me, and I'm he goes to me. He says, cool, just check in with me and do homework. 

Kelsi: I did that.

Michael U: Approximately zero times. 

Kelsi: Okay. 

Michael U: And three days before graduation, they post the names. My girlfriend calls me and she goes, Hey, your name is on the graduation list. And I was like, and I knew why, right? Obviously I go to, I go up to Mr. Bush's classroom, second floor, east wing of the building. And I wait for the period to end. It was like afternoon or something. He comes out, I go, And what is wrong with you? Like I'm like, meh. What is wrong with you? He's bigger than me. Like he's a bad, I'm a big dude. He's a big guy. And I go, how dare you fail me? Like I was like, like that. It was like vitriol. And and he says to me, he goes, I didn't fail you. You failed yourself. And then he told me, The most important thing anyone's ever told me in my entire life. It is arguably the reason I'm here today. One of three life changing experiences for sure. Probably number one. He goes you need to understand something about life. If you want something, you have to earn it. You can't get by on your charm and your good looks. And you're going to summer school. And I got uninvited from every graduation party. All of my friends stopped talking to me. My girlfriend was obviously incredibly embarrassed and I go to fucking summer school and I had been in JROTC army and navy because I went to multiple schools. I was preparing in my head. I was like, I'm going to be a Marine Corps scout sniper. I have to get this fucking stupid diploma. I crushed maps. 

Kelsi: Really? 

Michael U: Crushed it. 

Kelsi: Okay. Crushed.

Michael U: The ASVAB. Crushed it. 

Kelsi: Yeah. 

Michael U: Like I was good to go. Except for one thing. I had fucking asthma. I coded when I was eight years old. It's on my medical record. I hurt my knee my senior year, partial tear in my patella. They would not let me in. I find this out at the beginning of summer school. And so now I'm like, I really don't give a fuck. And a couple of weeks goes by. Cause the only thing like, I blame Tom Berenger for this, the movie sniper. All I wanted was that it's all I wanted. I fucking watch military movies. Like it was my job as Mike, as a kid, full metal jacket is memorized in my head. I love dog day afternoon. This is it. Like my uncle was in the military. Both of my cousins were air force. My little brother was army. Like my best friend was army. We were going to enlist the whole thing. That was the only thing I fucking cared about. So now I can't get in. Now I don't give a fuck about school. I didn't care before. Now I really didn't care. And the summer school teacher comes up to me. And he's dude, it is so obvious. You don't want to be here. He's we're just going to give you the diploma.

Kelsi: Oh, wow. 

Michael U: He goes, I'm going to give you the diploma. Don't come back. I'm done with you. I'll let the street sort you out. And that's just 18 years old. And that's what I come from. And so I, I sat and I looked at my life and I simultaneously got fired from a warehouse job. So growing up in the Midwest, like it's funny, I was just talking to someone about this, but growing up in the Midwest, so much of life is like the warehouse job. Work at the fast food place. They work at the retail spot. The idea that you would have a career wasn't a thing. It was like, my grandma worked on the assembly line at RCA for 27 years. My uncle worked on the assembly line at Allison transmission for tell the day retired, like 40 years. It was crazy. He spent his whole life doing the same fucking thing every day. It's I don't get it. 

Kelsi: That's insane. Yeah, it's crazy. 

Michael U: And so, I got fired from this warehouse job where I'm literally just putting microchips and the motherboards all day long, like a freaking monkey. And probably cause I was stoned. I'll call it what it is. And so I'm sitting in my car and I'm like, dude, you're not getting out of this car until you figure out what the fuck you are doing. Because it was like, I've now put myself in this situation where all my friends have ostracized me. My girlfriend won't talk to me. I'm the embarrassment of my whole family. And I'm like, All right. What is the solution for all of this in my head? The question was, what is the solution for homelessness? What is the solution for poverty for all the shit I've been through and I was like, it's money. That's what it is.

Kelsi: Okay.

Michael U: That's how I solve this problem money. And so, I made a decision by time. I was 21 I want to make a hundred grand a year.

Kelsi: Arbitrary number to throw out. Did you come up with that? I don't know where it came from.

Michael U: It's just reasonable. 

Kelsi: Okay, I just thought, I didn't know if it was like an influence from a movie, or something you read, where it was like…

Michael U: It could have been.

Kelsi: This is what I need to live off of.

Michael U: And here's what you Shit. You're talking about like 20 something years ago. A hundred grand is like 500 grand today. 

Kelsi: I know, it's bananas. 

Michael U: I know, it's crazy. I got a job at a fast food place. I was a general manager in training at 18, 52 people under me. I already had leadership skills from being in JROTC. So you already knew.

Michael U: Yeah, I already knew how to get people galvanized around an idea and so I get this job. I go up the ranks quickly. I realized like fast food is not the thing. This is not the path, but I learned so much. Like I learned a tremendous amount of leadership in that position. Unbelievable. It's crazy. When I look back at it and I'm on my space one day to age myself.

Kelsi: Love my space. 

Michael U: It is what it is. I'm on my space. I'm chatting with one of my homies. He just bought a brand new Chevy Tahoe. This is circa 2006. 

Kelsi: Okay. 

Michael U: Okay. You're talking about a fucking 30, 000 truck. Then this is the same dummy that I used to get stoned with before school. If we went and I'm like, how did you do what? Put me on game, whatever you're selling, put me in. I'm in. Cause I sold drugs before I know how to hustle. And he goes, I'm working for an insurance company and Kelsey, I swear to God, my brain exploded. I was like, wait, what? Hold on. You're doing what? He's I'm going to an office every day. I'm like, hold on. I don't understand. 

Kelsi: We sold drugs together. What are you talking about? 

Michael U: It wasn't that I didn't understand that you could do that. 

Kelsi: Oh, okay. 

Michael U: I didn't know that was a thing. 

Kelsi: Because you were never exposed. 

Michael U: I was never exposed to, I didn't know that you could wear nice clothes and have a nice car and go to a job nine to five and not be worried about money all the time. And I was like, done. Thank you. Great. The next two years. I applied for hundreds of insurance positions around the country getting declined again and again because I was 19 and I only have one thing on my resume had nothing to do with the industry, but I was in leadership like so the whole thing. And so I'm just like, fuck it, I'm just going to keep going because like my mentality is I'm never going to stop. I will always get what I want. So fast forward a couple of years, just knows constantly. I finally get an interview with one of the biggest insurance companies in the entire country. And I go and I sit down with them. They're in Indianapolis, they're up the road from my house. And the woman hires me on the fucking spot, she goes, you're hired where it's just pure luck and timing. But like preparation is required. And so I found out that they were they were growing the sell side of the business in the outreach in the cold outreach. And so I got out there dialing for dollars at 20 years old. The agents, I wasn't an agent yet. I was an assistant. The agents were all making six figures. The parking lot was nothing but Mercedes and infinity and Jaguars and Cadillacs and Lexus. That was the whole parking lot. And I'm driving like a fucking Mercury Mountaineer that barely is holding together that I'm paying like 700 a month because I got fucked because my mom took out an old Navy credit card in my name that went to collections, right? All this happened before I even, you don't know.

Kelsi: Yeah. 

Michael U: And I get a promotion like this a month before I turned 21. 

Kelsi: Okay. 

Michael U: And my very first check after that promotion was 10, 000. And by the time I was 26, I made almost a million dollars working for that company. 

Kelsi: Wow. 

Michael U: And I destroyed my life in the process. And so I had access to do anything I wanted. So I fucking did. And next thing I was 350 pounds smoking two packs a day, drinking myself to sleep. I was high from the moment I woke up to the moment I went to bed, my Cadillac, ‘cause I wanted to be cool that I'd fucking bought. That was like 80 grand. My Cadillac got repossessed. My girlfriend found out I was cheating on her with fucking 20 other girls. My little brother tells me never talk to me again, and I was 50,000 in debt and what I have discovered About everything in life is that action with intent is stupid? 

Kelsi: Okay. There's a lot. Let's just get into it. Okay, so How did having a grandmother that was incredibly racist affect you? 

Michael U: Like every way like it got to the point where I told her like I'm done with you When I was two things happen in a very short proximity of time one. I told my mother I'll never talk to you again And two I told my grandmother the same thing and held true till the day both of them died Yeah, my mom died of an overdose.My grandma died of a dementia And so I maybe saw each of them a couple times in that before and after or during I should say but it impacted me in every way like you can't be a mixed kid growing up in a racist house Makes you fucking insane. I had identity crisis. This is why I did drugs This is why I got this is why I drank all the time. This is why I hooked up with all these girls Because it was everything was better except my reality. 

Kelsi: Did you face? Similar racism and an all black school being a mixed child. 

Michael U: Oh, hell yeah. 

Kelsi: Can we talk about that for a little bit? 

Michael U: I don't care. 

Kelsi: Yeah. Because a lot of people don't have this conversation. I find it really fascinating. A lot of people think that racism America leans on the racism arm aggressively, especially the younger generations right now. They think everything's racist. Everything's racist. They're just soft. You're fascist. and you're racist. I'm both. It's I'm all of them. Just give them to me. But the reason I bring them one. Yeah, exactly. Can you just pick one? Cause you don't know what either mean. Exactly. I think for me, the reason I want to talk about it a little bit is because again, I've had this conversation with another individual who is mixed race. And I, unfortunately he's no longer with us, but he came from France and he was black, his father was from Somalia and his mother was white and he came from France and he was always told, in France, if you're black, like it's not like it's racist, it's you're not getting a house. Like it's, it was that area kind of level. And I asked him, I said, what do you find difficult about America? And it goes. Everyone thinks it's racist and it's not. And I said, how cause you're a black man. So, I'm like, how are you saying that right now? Like, how are you actually saying that? And he goes, we think that race is this one thing and it's not. And he goes, when mixed. Raced children come into the picture. It's different because you're never fully accepted by white people and you're never fully accepted by black people But yet you're racist if, you have that conversation because how dare you talk to somebody about their race and how dare you ask them about? How that feels from the other side and so for you when you grow up in an environment with a white grandmother who was in a mineconf She obviously just I'm sorry when I hear that stuff, especially nowadays, I can't cope well. Do you find that it is actually racist now, or did you find that it was incredibly racist then because you were not full black?

Michael U: Yeah look, I'm not full white either. I don't identify as either. I'm biracial. 

Kelsi: Yeah. Okay. 

Michael U: Like I just don't and that's that to me was a stake in the ground that I put in a very young age. 

Kelsi: How old?

Michael U: Very, I don't even remember. It's so embedded in me Like people if they call me black or white I'm like, nope, just always because to me that was identity to me that was like the very thing that I could lay claim to because I Certainly couldn't lay claim to anything else, right? And I'd be like, no, I'm biracial people. You're black. I'm like, no, I'm not really not. Cause I'm not. 

Kelsi: Right. 

Michael U: Not what are we talking about here? And so are people racist? I don't know. I don't care. I'll tell you the truth. I just don't give a fuck. I dealt with it. I dealt with it so much as a kid. Like I don't care if you're right. Great. Cool. Have fun. 

Kelsi: Really? 

Michael U: Nothing to do with me. I'm gonna do me take care of yourself. 

Kelsi: How do you feel when you see these people screaming that people are racist don't care because the racist doesn't don't care doesn't faze you at all. 

Michael U: I don't care. Here's what I here's what I'll tell you. I don't care Here's why I got more important shit to worry about right like vastly because if it's not in my direct cipher It has nothing to do with me. This is what I've come to realize about so much of life has nothing to do with me The only thing I can control is what I can control. And the reason why people's lives are spiraling and out of control is because they're constantly trying to control uncontrollables. They are so tied to the variables that they missed the thing that's right in front of them. And it's if I were expending my energy on that, I can't do this with you. I can't coach my clients. I can't go travel the world and speak on stages and do 750 podcasts of my own show. What am I? I don't even know what's happening in the world. And does that make me irresponsible? Sure. Fine. I'll take that. I don't care. I don't know anything about politics. I don't know anything about local government. I don't know anything about these things because they don't need my attention. If it's in my cipher, All right, cool. Let's handle it. Let's deal with it. But for me to get up in arms about everything that matters during the Black Lives Matter movement, because I believe this is really important to me. One of my brothers is a fucking cop. When all these people are out here talking about all cops are bastards. I'm like, go fuck yourself. I don't agree with you. And people came at me because they were like, yeah, but you're a person of color. I'm like, yeah, but you know how many times the cops had to come and save me from my stepdad. Go fuck yourself. And look, I'm the trauma coach guy. I'm the guy who sits here and helps people change their life to understand how to navigate the chaos of the world. But I'm not going to sit here and let people talk badly about something that I believe in. Are some cops bastards? A hundred percent. Are all of them? No. My little brother is not, in his own ways of, he's my little brother and I look at this and I go the dogmatic shit. Conversation that people have about their ideations of reality is why their life sucks And I'm just not going to play the game. I'm not going to be in the matrix. I'm just not. And this isn't like one of these fucking red pill weirdo guy thing. And this is like just reality. What do you do? Why do, why does it matter? There's so many things that don't matter. You know how many times I've been canceled? I don't give a fuck. It's the internet for things like this. That's obnoxious for saying what I believe to be true for saying that people who are weak because they choose to be. Minus again, you have a learning disability that's, or a mental ailment or a physiological, like I get it. Like I get it. You know what I'm saying? I have a fucking learning disability too. I've written three books.  All right. Yeah. Great. What other excuse do you want to give me and look here. Here's the thing, Kelsey, I just come from a different mindset. I came from fucking nothing. I don't care about your excuses.

Kelsi: I'm super obsessed with this conversation right now, and the reason I ask this is because when the Black Lives Matter stuff happened. I was seeing a lot of controversy around biracial individuals. Because they were standing up to BLM and being like, This is obnoxious! 

Michael U: A lot of it's obnoxious. It always, but think, all right, here, I'm going to challenge you right now.

Kelsi: Let's go.

Michael U: I want you to think about what I'm about to say. Cause this, I made a decision after that to no longer get involved in anything that wasn't directly in my control. And so now it's been a few years. And what I realized is that the division and propaganda that we are subjugated to on a daily basis is the reason why your life is out of your own control. And I played the game too, because I'm like, I'm a person of color, like this matters to me. And then I just kept thinking, I was like, wait a second, but then COVID happens. And then now this trans thing is happening. And now, and look, do your thing. I'm not here to pass judgment. I don't give a fuck. You want to like, Put peanut butter up your ass and roll down the stairs and that's how you get off. Godspeed to you. Congratulations. I don't care. That's not what I'm saying. What I'm saying is the next thing is coming. 

Kelsi: It's always coming. 

Michael U: The next thing is coming. Whatever the thing is that you need to be distracted by is going to come. Inflation, the next election. Measles. The they might take away. Marriage in general. I don't know. I'm just making things up, right? It might be illegal for you to do anything So I got shit to do right? That's my whole point in just saying all that It's like it's so if you think about it how many times in your life You've given emotional and mental energy to things that don't actually matter It's unbelievable.

Kelsi: Mel Robbins says that. She talks about that a lot about emotional hooks into people and things. She talks about the amount of outpouring that we give to other people when we don't even realize that we are draining ourselves. And so the reason I bring this up is because I can honestly say I've never spoken to somebody who is biracial and said and heard this side of the conversation. And I think it comes down to the excuses and the things that we put in our way. When people tell me that the way of the world right now. Is that there are people of less than and we must have Others in power. We must have two and a half black people and one Indian person and one blind person. And we must have all of these neurodivergent people flying planes. We must be doing this. It's because it's to make the world a better place. Okay. Yeah. Okay. Great. How do you advise individuals that when they're going through this and they're stuck in the matrix and they're in these moments of I can never be because of the color of my skin, I can never be because of the way I believe.

Michael U: I don't know. I'm not saying you're not wrong, right? I'm just saying I'm not giving up my energy. Be so good. They can't ignore you. Stop making excuses. I come from nothing. I fucking was homeless at eight years old. Like my mom cut my finger off. Like I can keep going. I didn't even get into the fucking, my three best friends getting murdered. 

Kelsi: Oh, we're going.

Michael U: I didn't even get into that. I didn't get into the putting a gun in my mouth. Like I get it. The world, who the fuck thinks who owes you understanding who owes you this idea that just because you are, you deserve everything. You've got to earn every inch. And. And I know that's intense. 

Kelsi: I don't think that's intense.

Michael U: I think it's intense for a lot of people.

Kelsi: Why is that? 

Michael U: Because a lot of people want to be a victim and a lot of people like, and I get it. Cause I want, I was a victim for a long time. I go look at my life in my twenties could not be more victim. It was everybody's fault. Everything was everybody's fault all the time. It was the church's fault, school's fault, parents fault, teachers fault peers fault, Obama's fault. It was everybody's fault. Give me a reason to blame somebody for my actions and my decisions or my lack or the abundance I don't have. And I will give you someone else's responsibility. And so for me, when I sit and I'm working with people, it's really just about helping them understand one reality, the reality that they choose to live in. What's really crazy. I don't say this to gloat. I just say this because it's the reality I've created to go from literally sleeping on a concrete floor with no mattress huddled next to my two little brothers being covered in roaches and rats in a house that my parents couldn't afford because they spent all of their money on drugs to sleeping on planes and first class traveling the entire world. Is a choice that I've made to work my fucking face off to be this version of me. Because I look at my life and I'm like, I want the health, wealth, and relationships that I desire based on the design of my life. Not what everyone else tells me I could, should, or would be. And that to me is about understanding that you're playing a game with yourself every day, all you're doing is just input in and put out, what are you consuming? Who are you around? I had this moment where, cause I ran the streets, I got in a lot of trouble as a kid. I've been in handcuffs a lot. Luckily, never arrested.

Kelsi: I was going to say.

Michael U: Luckily. Inner divine intervention to say the least. 

Kelsi: Would they just grab you and hold you? 

Michael U: Yeah. 

Kelsi: Okay. Yes.

Michael U: And then just search me, search my car, search my lockers, probable cause. You look like a guy.

Kelsi: Oh, you look like the guy.

Michael U: I was the guy. Trust me. 

Kelsi: I was the guy. 

Michael U: Here's the thing. No, there was, because there were times where like me and my best friend, we'd go, we'd skip school. We'd break in your house. We'd steal your shit. Jesus. But we had a stash spot. And so we give it a little bit of time. We never got caught with anything on us. That's the, you're going to break the law. That's how, if I wouldn't advise that you break the law. Let me be clear. Don't break the law. Hypothetically, if I broke the law. Anecdotally. This is what I may have done. I was the guy. I was a product of my environment.

Kelsi: Absolutely. 

Michael U: You want to keep being a product of your environment? By all means. You want something different? Okay, let's go get something different. But if you're always going to be concerned about matters that are not your concern, your life's going to be very hard. 

Kelsi: It's just distraction. 

Michael U: It's all distraction. I'm like the election that we're facing in front of us right now, it's which old crazy white guy do you want to be president? Flip a fucking coin. But for me to sit here and go down that path and read all the articles and listen to all the content and watch all the debates, it's what are we doing? And again, I will say this, am I lacking in social responsibility? Very likely. But everyday I get a text from one of my clients, thank you. For changing my life, for helping me believe in myself. Things, I'm focused on my goal. End generational trauma in my lifetime. I don't care about anything else. I'm zero focused. I do not care. 

Kelsi: That's the reason when you say I do not care, I wanted to pull that apart a little bit because people are going to hear that and just be like, what do you mean he doesn't care? He doesn't care. I don't, I think that you don't care, but I think that the reason you don't care is valid. And I think the reason you don't care is a wake up call for a lot of people. And it's not that you don't need to be socially responsible, and that there isn't a balance in that for some individuals, but it is a vortex people get sucked into. It is the thing that happens that literally encompasses everything. Who they are, who they hang out with. What they choose to eat restaurants they go to because the person was told it's this is woke and this is not. So, when you say I don't care I can respect that very much though. But I wanted to give you the space to understand when you say I don't care what that means and why.

Michael U: Most people are more concerned with how other people think about them than how they think about themselves.

Kelsi: Oh, for sure 

Michael U: And I'm not You like, great. You like me. Cool. Whatever. You don't like me. Okay, cool. Whatever. 

Kelsi: It's not going to change your day. 

Michael U: It's not. 

Kelsi: Yeah.

Michael U: Because I'm going to go do this one thing. That's incredibly important. I'm going to go look in the mirror and I'm going to be okay with the reflection. And I wasn't for a long time because all I ever did, like I grew up. In this space where it was like, I had to learn how to be a chameleon for survival this idea that children are meant to be seen and not heard held so true in my home that like me, me ever asking for what I needed was a surefire way for my dad, my stepdad to beat the shit out of me and lock me in a closet, right? And so I learned how to always keep my opinion to myself. God forbid you get sick in my house. Holy shit. My stepdad beat the shit out of me one time ‘cause I had the flu, right? Like my mom, I lost my key one time. She wouldn't let me back in the house. And so, I learned, okay, how do you bend, right? How do you become what everyone else needs you to be at all times? I was incredibly codependent to the point that it impacted my life. So desperately that I said yes to everything all the time, no matter what it was. I go show you and paint you a picture of my life by the people who were in it at that time, drugs, women partying. What do you think my life was drugs, women, partying, spending money on everything. Doing things I didn't want to do. I would do stuff I had no interest in. Cause I was so scared to tell people. No. 

Kelsi: Worried about what they would think of you. 

Michael U: Every worry about the physiological response to any conflict would set me into an immediate panic attack. But that's literally beaten into me through childhood.

Kelsi: That's the nervous system.

Michael U: It's the nervous system entirely. You know this, you work with regulation. And so it was like, all of these little things kept coming to pass over the years. I'm leading somewhere with this. I don't care concept. And what happened was I just started to realize like freedom is independent thought and that's it. And I have my own opinions about things. I don't care if you agree with me. I don't care if you do agree with me. It's just it's for me. And that's one of the things that I teach my clients, like healing trauma isn't really about what you think it is. This is weird. It's so subconscious and deeply rooted in you that healing trauma is actually learning this really simple thing, but being able to follow through on it every single day in light of the most difficult things that we do in that thing is this do what you want to do because you want to do it. Don't do what you don't want to do because you don't want to do it. That's the cornerstone. Because trauma isn't the cuts, the burns the thing. Like it's not that.  It's the theft of identity. Everything's taken from you. Everything you think you understand about reality is shaped and bent and warped into this understanding of what you think you need to be because you have to be that to survive and then eventually, here's the dark part about this. It serves you for a period of time to be that, and then it doesn't. And if you, and in the moment when it stops serving you and you can recognize that and you start to do the work, freedom is what we seek as humans. Arguably people don't financial freedom. I'm like, that's great. Money is abundant. You can always find more. Trust me. When I was eight years old, I Lots on the corner of 30th and Georgetown put on my Boy Scout uniform and go sell it door to door for a dollar bar making a hundred percent profit What? Money is abundant and is everywhere. Oh and so let me say that because this is very important and so The thing that I'm always moving towards for myself and for everyone is recognizing that your identity was stolen. You have to take it back. And so, when I say, I don't care, it's not as simple as I don't care. That's nonsensical. That's. That's nonpluss. When I say I don't care, it's so deeply rooted in me, because all I did was care about Kelsey's opinion, and I don't give a fuck. 

Kelsi: I think that's one of the, that's why I wanted to understand that more, because I know how it can sound, but I know that's not what you mean.

Michael U: Yes. 

Kelsi: But somebody listening to this will go he doesn't give a fuck. They've 

Michael U: Already stopped listening. 

Kelsi: No, they haven't. Not my listeners. My listeners thrive on this shit. I want to talk about the obesity and how you got there because that is and the fact that you're in incredible shape now, that is a path that is a choice. That is a journey where you. 

Michael U: Can't say it's a choice. You're going to get canceled. 

Kelsi: It's a choice. It is a choice. I'm sorry, but it is. It's a choice. It is a choice. And yes, but it's rooted. Yes. Obesity is also rooted in childhood trauma and in emotional eating. And I understand where it comes from, but it's still a choice. And the choice is to decide to heal and work through it or to continue down the path. So it's a choice. Hard truth. I chose today at Sean Kelly's to not eat the cheesecake that came in, even though it was beautiful and awesome and looked amazing. But I know I didn't need it and it wasn't good for me. I wanted it, but I didn't choice made it moved on. So how did you how did that happen? 

Michael U: Yeah. So, I grew up in a food desert. Now, obviously we didn't have that terminology then. It was just like you go, you eat garbage food at the store. No, all of the food that we would get from the church was pantry food, powdered milk, like processed, like canned goods. I'm not saying this in any light manner at all. I did not have a salad for the first time until I was 20 years old. Easily. Easily. And so luckily I grew up being an athlete. I played four sports.

Kelsi: And so how with your body running on that food.

Michael U: ‘Cause you're a kid and you can run on it. I suppose. And I would steal food from this big lots, or from the Cubs. We had a place called Cubs foods. It was like a Kroger or Meyer. I don't know what it was. It was a grocery store. But what do kids eat when kids are in control of what they eat? 

Kelsi: Yeah. 

Michael U: Candy. And junk food. And so was I chubby kid? Yes. But then I hit a growth spurt freshman year high school and it being like six, three played for sports, wrestled baseball, football, a little bit of track, even though I kept getting kicked off all of these teams, by the way. And so it just worked itself out. Now, what happens is I go down this path that everyone has to go down being self sufficient, being in the world, working a job. I actually took, I had the opportunity to take a different job than the Wendy's job, but Wendy's had free food for managers that was so important to me, right? It was actually the deciding factor on taking that job.

Kelsi: I can understand why. 

Michael U: And so, what do you think happens if you eat cheeseburger and French fries every day for two years? So I put on weight. Not a tremendous amount, but enough. It didn't really get haywire until I started drinking heavy. 

Kelsi: Okay. So then the alcohol came in.

Michael U: And the alcohol and the drugs and the 500 dinners every night.

Kelsi: And how could you afford alcohol? I guess you were working. 

Michael U: Because I started making a hundred grand a year.

Kelsi: So you were at that point and that's when the weight came on.

Michael U: That's when it really came. And I probably put on. A hundred pounds in the course of three years. 

Kelsi: Yikes! 

Michael U: Yeah. It was a lot of drugs, a lot of alcohol. 

Kelsi: Did you notice it? I hear a lot of people say.

Michael U: Fuck yeah! 

Kelsi: You know when people say Oh, I just, I didn't even realize, and they gained forty.

Michael U: They're not self-sufficient. They're not self-aware. Self-aware. I was self-aware. I knew what I was doing. I was choosing to do nothing about it. 

Kelsi: Okay.

Michael U: Because, I was ready to die. I just didn't care. Same reason I'm smoking two packs of cigarettes a day. And I had asthma. Think about this, but I didn't love myself. 

Kelsi: So, you're self sabotage, self sabotaging.

Michael U: Beyond. I was ready to die.  I didn't care.

Kelsi: Were you trying to kill yourself with food? 

Michael U: No, I wasn't, but I was trying to like, that wasn't my thought process with food. It was just, it was so mechanical and physiological because what does the brain do when it gets food when it and the body when it hasn't had it for a long time. So, imagine that's most of your childhood. And so there would be these, I think this all got triggered in that four years of homelessness, right? And I, cause there were some of these families just wouldn't feed us like just straight up.

Kelsi: So they'd feed everyone else, but they wouldn't be a hundred percent.

Michael U: This happened multiple times. And so now my brain is like in that room, I must make reserve. The brain doesn't get out of that until you learn how to heal and settle your nervous system. So I'm going to, I'm going to answer your question. So what happens is I'm like, okay, let me start trying something different because I was 340 pounds. 350 pounds. I was wearing a size four XL shirt, size 47 pants. I'm today size 33 pants and large shirt. 

Kelsi: Yeah. I just like a picture, like a… 

Michael U: Literary shredder. I've had, I've went from being like super fat to having six pack. Like I've, because it was like doing the work and making choice. I at 26, I was like, I'm just going to try to get healthy. I didn't know what that really meant, but it was like, I'm going to do things differently. Cause that's a choice, do things differently. And the different things where I'm going to change the way I eat. I'm going to try to stop smoking, try to stop drinking, try to stop. I was just trying everything right. As well as you can't try anything either if I can do it or don't. I didn't understand that yet though. And so one day I always want to shout this out because it's really important part of my journey. There is this guy named diamond Dallas page. Now it's a name, DDP. He's a professional wrestler.

Kelsi: Oh, perfect.

Michael U: So, Dallas was my favorite wrestler as a kid and one day I'm gonna show you this when we get done one day I'm on YouTube. This is 10 12 years ago and There's this video That he has released Dallas has because he started a company called YRG. Which is yoga for regular guys, and I was like, I'm a regular guy It's perfect marketing except everyone knows guys don't do fucking yoga, but I was like I'm willing to do anything He showed this video of this guy Arthur. And Arthur was a para rescue trooper who had got injured in the line and had come back and put on 150 pounds. Oh, got on Dallas's program, lost it all be changed his whole life. And I was like, fuck yeah, I'm in. Send me the dv, I have the receipt, I'll show you. It's like May 12th, 2010. 

Kelsi: I love that you got.

Michael U: I get these DVDs, right? Luckily I have this old ass email address, right? And so the DVDs come in. You have to think I am so embarrassed. I'm living with my girlfriend dead broke. A business that I'm running is failing. My little brother is living in the other room and these DVDs come in and like I'm hiding my yoga mat in my closet behind things. Nobody knows I have this. 

Kelsi: Okay. 

Michael U: And so, everybody like goes to work and do their thing or they're gone and I go throw in a DVD.

Kelsi: It's not porn.

Michael U: I'm throwing in yoga. And I just started on that mat and just this transformation started to happen. I didn't know it at the time. I thought it was working out, but what it was meditation. What it was healing. What it was personal development and growth and pushing myself through difficulty and holding poses and going through this whole thing. And then it turned into. This woman named Hagen opened up this place called the hot room, which was a hot yoga studio in Indianapolis. And I don't know how I even found out about it, but I just found out about it and I was like, I'm gonna go do hot yoga now. And so the very first day I go, this is where my life, this is one of the moments where my life changed forever. I don't, again, I don't tell anybody I'm doing this. Nobody knows. I go, I'm in the parking lot. And I just see all these fit people going in and I'm like, I'm so fat. 

Kelsi: How big were you then still? 

Michael U: I was probably like three, 10 men. I'd probably lost like 30, 40 pounds when I was still fat. And I was like watching all these fit people and hot girls go in. I'm like, fuck. And that guy's fucking look, I would rip that guy as, and I was like, here's ‘cause I know how I am at the time. I'm not like this now, but at the time I was like, you're going to have to get there 25 minutes early so you can hype yourself up to walk in the door. I was terrified. And so, I'm watching all these people go in and I'm like, don't leave bitch. Literally. This is what I'm saying. Don't leave. Don't be a fucking bitch. And I walk in. No one even cares that I'm there. Obviously, which is how like, cause it's joking. Everybody's doing their own thing. But I realized I was like, Oh my God, this is just a place where I can come and do this. I'll go sit in the back corner, do my thing. Nobody cares. And I just, the weight just came off and off. And at one point I did 66 straight days. Whoa. And then it turned into CrossFit and then it turned into running marathons and then it turned into bicycling and then it turned into all Muay Thai and then turned into all the things because I'd always been an athlete, but I just stopped. And so I just started again. And then now I still do all those same things. But this is the thing I always tell people. It's. It wasn't just that I had to learn how to eat, and I had to learn how to recover. I had to learn how to love my body, to love my mind, to love the process, to not get frustrated and quit, to push through and persevere. And eventually I became a personal trainer and a nutritionist license. I never did anything with it. It was for my self education, right? And so I did that. And then I maybe swung the pendulum too far because it was CrossFit like six times a week and I was super shredded.

Kelsi: You were a bro. 

Michael U: And I wasn't a bro, but I was just very deep, like nothing else mattered. And that was unhealthy too. And so then it was like finding balance. And then it was like, now I'm here where I am now. And now it's just about maintenance. 

Kelsi: Just like looking after yourself and keeping up. Yeah.

Michael U: Like I don't have junk food in my house. Like I don't have gummy bears around because that's like my weakness. Gummy bears? A hundred percent.

Kelsi: In particular? Yeah. 

Michael U: Yeah. Cause that's what little kids still.

Kelsi: I still want to send you a pack of them. 

Michael U: Yeah. I'll eat them. I know. 

Kelsi: I have love. Yeah. Yeah. Of course. 

Michael U: Yeah. But see, that's the thing like that's what it was. I had to learn to be okay with so many things, but this is the healing journey. It's the same way I had to learn to be okay with being a leader, how I had to learn to be okay with accepting love, how I had to learn to be okay with being courageous and saying the truth. To heal the relationship with my brothers who wouldn't talk to me. It's all learning, but it's all because I was not willing to be that person anymore. Like a huge part of my life is this notion of raise your standards. If you, and this is something that's carried so much weight for me, raise your standards. Nobody cares about your problem. Nobody does. I'm sorry. Like even as your coach and I, again, I've coached thousands of people. Go look at the testimony. There's hundreds of testimonials and reviews on my podcast. Same for the book. And I tell people this every single day, I'm not here to be your friend. I'm here to be your coach. And that's the same way I am with myself sometimes. And I know people will be like, you should not mistake and blah, blah, blah, blah, blah.

Kelsi: There's a time and place for that.

Michael U: There is a hundred percent. Sometimes you need to put your foot in your ass. And that's the thing that changed my life and how I lost the weight. I raised my standard. 

Kelsi: You sound it sounds similar to me as David Goggins when he speaks just a little less harsh and seems like a little more depth. So, the reason I say that it's not a slight to him at all by any means, but it's very interesting to hear how we also…

Michael U: Grew up 20 minutes apart. 

Kelsi: Did you really? 

Michael U: Yeah. 

Kelsi: No shit. Huh? I find that fascinating. It's just the obesity thing. I see the correlation, but I also see the hardship and what it takes to overcome that.

Michael U: Can I add something to that? Because I think this is really important. Of course. So do you know what the ACE survey is? So the Adverse Childhood Experiences Study, this was done by Dr. Folletti and the California Center for Disease Control with Kaiser Permanente in 1994. Dr. Folletti was helping obese patients lose weight.

Kelsi: Okay. 

Michael U: And He would see people would lose weight, put it on, lose weight, put it on, lose weight, put it on. We're talking about obese people. We're not talking about people who had a great winter. A great winter. We're talking about obese people. And one day this woman comes in. She had lost like 60 pounds. Okay. Month goes by from her last check in and she'd gained 25 pounds back in a month. Do you know how fucking hard it is to gain 25 pounds? It's almost impossible. And she had done it. And in passing what she said to him, Was yeah this guy at work, he's just said something to me and it just, I don't know. It just makes me eat what had happened to her when she was young as she was molested. And this guy had said something to her that triggered her that had created that autonomic response. And in doing so, what does the body do? The body goes to do what the body is capable of doing. And in that moment, it's satiating pain by eating food. Her thought was if I'm fat, I'm safe because that man won't want to touch me. Okay. So now we understand that he didn't have that correlation in that moment, but it sparked something for him. And then that started one of the biggest studies, which is not complete. And I wish when I have the ability, I will fund it myself. I will do my own study because it's not complete. But anyway I'll give you this context because I think it's really important. So he found that there were like these 10 kind of key questions about childhood trauma and abuse that could potentially lead to these longterm detrimental health ramifications, obesity, smoking, drinking, suicide divorce, like all pulmonary embolisms, heart attacks, asthma. There's a direct correlation between your childhood and what is going to happen in your life as an adult. Depending on where you fall on this system, excuse me, these questions, you could be up to 2,200 percent more likely to smoke, 2,000 percent more likely to drink. It's in the book, 5,200 percent more likely to commit a suicide. I checked off every one of those boxes by the time I was 26, depending on where you fall. Also, you could shed 15 years off your life and not even know it. And so some of the questions are, As a child, we ever molested sexually inappropriate contact. Things of that nature was a parent divorced and apparent have mental ailments. Did anybody in your family go to prison? Did you ever feel not safe when you needed medical care? Did you get it? The list goes on and on. There's 10 questions. Why answer just all 10 of those? It's not a surprise that you wind up being obese. This is why I tell people all the time, education and intelligence is freedom. Educate yourself in the book. This book is not about me. 

​

Michael U: It's the first book. Is it a little bit about me? Sure. Whatever. But the podcast, not about me, this, even though we're having this conversation, it's not about me. What it's about is helping people understand the reason why their life is what their life is. It has nothing to do with you. It's not your fault. You're not culpable for it, but it's your responsibility. And what I tell people all the time is like, it's like having a house and childhood trauma is like having this home. And every single day you walk outside, there's trash in your, that's the abuse. That's the suffering. That's all the shit you've been through. And every day you walk over that trash and you go try to live your life. More you do that, the more it piles up. And next thing it's inside your house. And the thing about this healing journey is even though it's not your trash, it's your house.

Kelsi: And nobody can do it for you. That's the other part.

Michael U: And they're not going to either.

Kelsi: No, and that's the other thing. And we keep relying on others to do it for us. We keep reaching out to people. But a good friend of mine says this, you keep reaching out, but if you have the answers, hang up the fucking phone. That's the other thing. And that's why I bring up like where you grew up and all this and the obesity side, because America's over 70 percent obese right now.

Michael U: I think it's like 61. 

Kelsi: Is it 61 percent right now? Yeah. Okay. 

Michael U: It's not far from seven. 

Kelsi: That's terrifying. That's too high.

Michael U: But so is most of the Westernized world.

Kelsi: Exactly. But that's my, that's what I'm saying to you. That, what that tells me in the correlation to trauma is significant. What we're doing to our youth is so significant that our populations are growing up to be massively obese, correlate that to food, trauma, whatever you want, there is a problem here. And there's an accountability issue here. And the reason I brought up Goggins with you is because I see the similar accountability. And the I don't give a fuck mentality. And I understand that you have to have the namaste, there is, push on the gas, back up, push on the gas, back up. But both of you seem to have a similarity in that. And that seems to rub people the wrong way. And it seems to hit them and it's because you're just a reflection to them. You're the mirror for them. 

Michael U: If I would have told someone the things that I tell myself before I was ready, they would punch me in the face, right? No question. 

Kelsi: So let's, so that's what I want to understand because you are a really profound person. Prolific coach. I've heard of you from several different people. Before it, David, I had known who you were and you said, I was, I've been canceled before. I don't think anything that you've done is justified any of those things, but that's just my, that's my personal opinion. And that's how I feel about it. So looking at that as a coach, at what point did you decide that I felt capable enough to walk into someone's life? You're able to read them well enough and help them understand themselves enough to get them to where they need to be. 

Michael U: I have all, my superpower has been reading people my entire life. It is a defensive mechanism that is something that I can gauge a human being within 10 seconds and know everything about you. I can read into your soul like that. 

Kelsi: Do you find that's intimidating for others? 

Michael U: I don't tell people. 

Kelsi: No, but you. 

Michael U: In general. No. No. Cause it's a weird thing. It comes out though by accident sometimes where I'm like, Oh yeah, I know what your problem is. And I try not to do that. I think it's really important to separate that with people who aren't paying you to do it because they don't want it.

Kelsi: That's right. 

Michael U: I've come to discover. 

Kelsi: Has that been an issue before? 

Michael U: It's been an issue my whole life. I've only ever had one nickname in my whole life as coach. Wow. That's the only Nick or fuck face, but like either way. Yeah. And so As a kid, I had to learn how to read people because I was around so many different people all the time in many unsafe circumstances. And so I had to know whether or not I had to go to sleep that night. So I've read people and I looked for tells and I looked for signs and I looked for the thing. You know what I mean? You walk into someone's house and you're like, Oh yeah. I know this isn't safe today. 

Kelsi: You can feel it. 

Michael U: Yeah. I trust my energy. I'm an empath. Believe it or not. 

Kelsi: Oh, no. I know. 

Michael U: Despite all the things I say, right? Like I, I read people better than they read themselves that that has both been something very beneficial for me and something that has held me back over the years. Because again, people don't want to be told about themselves unless they ask you. So, I've had to learn how to navigate that. 

Kelsi: You could just be a comedian and do whatever else does where you just 

Michael U: roast mother. Just like Tony Hinchcliffe does.

Kelsi: It's he's a bit. It's a defense mechanism. I know. 

Michael U: Yeah, it is 100%. And so I was writing for I'm a writer first. I've written many books that I've never seen the light of day because I just because I wanted to just to write. I wrote a screenplay when I was eight. 

Kelsi: Do you still have it? 

Michael U: No, my mom threw it away. 

Kelsi: Oh, I'm so sorry. 

Michael U: It was a vampire romantic comedy.

Kelsi: How did you know what a romantic comedy?

Michael U: Because I saw a vampire in Brooklyn? Oh With Eddie Murphy when I was super young. 

Kelsi: Okay, and I was like…

Michael U: I'm gonna write and so because we were Mormon My mom had justifiably thrown it away. And so I've always been a writer. So I'm writing And I'm writing all this stuff and people are reaching out to me because of SEO and the internet and blogs and I know how to do marketing and blah, blah, blah. And I had this guy reach out to me and he's will you coach me? Will you help me? And I was like, fuck no, really? Absolutely not. There's no way I'm doing that because, and look, I'm the same guy who would see Tony Robbins and be like, fuck that guy.  And Tony Robbins has personally coached me before.

Kelsi: So like, I get it.

Michael U: Context.

Kelsi: And I love that you said that, but fuck that. 

Michael U: I hated Tony Robbins with passion. I told him, I don't know. ‘Cause fuck Tony Robbins because it was the reflection of the person. I thought I could be, or didn't believe I was capable of being, right. And you don't know that when you're 26. And so this guy was emailing me and he's Hey, will you help me? And I was like, no, dude, I'm not. And he wouldn't leave me alone system. And then I was like, fine. X amount of dollars. It was unreasonable.

Kelsi: Can I ask him out? 

Michael U: It was 250, for one session. 

Kelsi: Okay. 

Michael U: Which in this is nine years ago. 

Kelsi: Yeah, I was gonna say wait a year ago. 

Michael U: I have no credentials. I've done nothing but write some blogs.

That number to me felt unreasonable. Cause I was like, I just wanted him to go away. And he was like, okay. And I was like, oh, I guess this is what I do now. 

Kelsi: Okay. 

Michael U: Fast forward eight, nine years. It's thousands of people.

Kelsi: You found your, you just found it. 

Michael U: It's always been there, right? But I don't think that I ever knew that it was going to be this. And when the kids called me coaching as a kid, I was always like, I was like, I believe we can do this. That's my mentality. Like I wanted to win a state championship in football. I wanted to go to state and wrestling. I wanted to be MVP baseball player. And I did really well in some sports and some, I didn't, I hate team sports, by the way. 

Kelsi: No one could understand why. Yeah. 

Michael U: Yeah. And so these guys would call me coach, but it was facetious. Oh, it was like, Hey, fuck you, coach, because I could see the thing that they were missing. And now people pay me a lot of money to do it more than 250. 

Kelsi: Not enough to go away though. 

Michael U: It's because I price is only an issue in the absence of value. And so I have so many resources because I know what it's like to be dirt poor. I will send you the book for free. Go to book.thinkunbroken.com. I will send it to you. 

Kelsi: You're going to get a lot of emails. 

Michael U: Good. I hope so. I have plenty of books. I have an abundance. I have plenty. They don't stop making them. I got enough 800 almost podcasts on my show alone. Not to mention the another 400 I've been a guest on 4,000 plus posts on social media, ungodly amounts of blogs, conferences, events, speaking, like I don't care. The money will come and as I grow, there will, the money will raise because my time is valuable And how I see it right now. Is because I have something available for everyone. I'm, I know what it's like to not be able my grandma used to say this. We don't have two nickels to rub together.

Kelsi: I've heard that one. 

Michael U: I'm like, I know that. And I also know what it's like to wear like 2,000 shoes.

Kelsi: And they're really comfortable.

Michael U: They're the best. That's a grip. And I'm not saying that to gloat. 

Kelsi: No, and it's not.

Michael U: And I don't even need to buy that for any other reason than I want it. 

Kelsi: Yeah. It's not the point. 

Michael U: Yeah. The point that I'm making is nothing that I do in my life is about money. Money's not real. And, but what is real is knowing that I have a message from someone right now in the short time that we've done this, that says, thank you. And that's why I do it. Trust me, I promise you this and the other companies I run, they're much easier. They're less stressful and they don't require any of my emotional energy. And this is 8 million times more difficult. Okay. Because I'm trying to change people's lives, not sell them shit.

Kelsi: They don't need coaching is an interesting space. It is a fascinating space to see it. It's how it's developing, how it's growing, who's coming into it, who thinks they can, who thinks they can't, what people are charging. It varies. I have friends who charge six, seven figures to work with. Then I have friends who charge 50 an hour. When you started this and you started to become successful in this. And when I say successful, I'm not talking about financial. I'm saying successful and actually getting people on track. I call it unfucking your life, essentially. Really? Cause that's what it is. It's showing them the gaps. It's helping them understand. So when you got to a certain point, Where was the fulfillment for you? Or was it from the very beginning? Where did you start to really feel like it was? Because the reason I'm asking that is because I find when people work in this profession, every time you work with someone different, there's a part of you that's either changing or healing alongside them, whether it's subconscious or not. So at what point did you start to solidify in this and go, I'm not questioning if I'm good at this. I'm good at this. And this is my path 

Michael U: of second. I decided to do it. Don't do anything. You've here's I just have always call it delusion.

Kelsi: I'm not going to but please call it delusion.

Michael U: Okay, I've always believed I'm the best at everything that I want to do that I want to do that I want to do I don't do shit. I don't want to do I'm not gonna give it any effort I'm gonna give it less than zero when I say what I want to do And this to my core. Like when I make up my mind about something, it's done. I'll give you a great example. So you know, Grant Cardone is. 

Kelsi: I do. Okay. 

Michael U: So Grant Cardone has hosted this thing over the years where he has a speak off. It's effectively a shark tank kind of situation where he's going to invest in somebody's business, where they're going to pitch their business to him. And I want it and he invested in my company. 

Kelsi: Okay. 

Michael U: And we're in the green room getting ready to go live in front of 10, 000 people. And this woman makes a tremendously terrible mistake.

Kelsi: Oh no. 

Michael U: She's one of the competitors. I'm very fucking competitive. 

Kelsi: I gather. 

Michael U: And she says, And I love her. We've talked about that. She knows I should have a story. She goes, to the group of us. She goes, good luck guys. But I already know I want.

Kelsi: Oh no. 

Michael U: And I was like, this is where dreams come to die because you can't want it more than I want it. And here's what I mean by that. I'll show you the journal. It's in the other room. Every day for two months, I wrote Grant Cardona is vesting in my company. Grant Cardona is investing in my company. Grant Cardona is investing in my company. And I researched, I rehearsed my pitch 500 times. No exaggeration. No, I believe it. So we get up on stage and we all are under the assumption. We have five minutes to pitch the live event. You got five minutes, 10,000 people pressure is on. Cool. Let's go. Grant gets up there and does his grant isms, and he goes He goes, how much time do you guys get looking at Jared? His right hand guy. And Jared goes, gave him five minutes. Grant goes, absolutely not. They get 30 seconds and Jared goes, no, because he's going to take, he's going to catapult the whole thing. And Jared goes, no, we can't. They've been practiced for five minutes and Grant goes, I don't care. And I'm like, good. And he goes, we'll give them two. Okay. He goes, who wants to go first? I raised my hand so fast. It comes out of my fucking socket. 

Kelsi: Yes. 

Michael U: And Grant says, he probably just put fuel on the fire. He goes, people think they're ready, but they're not. Let's see what you got. And I go, motherfucker, just wait. And I do my thing. He literally does a mic drop. Everyone who followed after me was just a train wreck. It was like watching children in a play. 

Kelsi: Devastation. It was horrible. 

Michael U: It was unbelievable. And at the end, everyone goes, We know who won. We're not even going to sugarcoat it. And they announced my name. And the reason I'm telling you this story Is because I believe this in the same way that I've been on a billboard in times square twice in my life I'm the nasdaq not the little side bullshit like for real. 

Kelsi: Hey, I got a side bullshit recently and I'ma Congratulations, 

Michael U: but I didn't want the side thing, right? I'm glad you got that good for you. Go get another one.  Why are you thinking so small? 

Kelsi: I'm not, don't worry, we'll talk after. 

Michael U: And so when I was 18 years old, I went to New York City with 500 bucks in my pocket and I stood in Times Square One night. I was like, one day I'm gonna beyond that motherfucker. I didn't know what that meant. And now I've done it. And my point in saying both of these things is just very simple. If you don't believe in yourself, who will?

Kelsi: Oh my god. I don't think my listeners have a clue how valuable this hour has been for them quite yet. I highly suggest you go back and listen to this again and again and again and again because the amount of lessons that you've just pulled out and dropped It's got to be some of the most I've ever had on the show.

Michael U: It's just truth. It's all it is. It's it. Just make a decision. Yeah, there's I didn't share this and I think it's probably one of the most important discoveries of my life. It is the moment. So I'm 25, I'm 350 pounds, two packs a day, the whole thing. And it's a Saturday morning, I'm laying in bed, I'm smoking a joint, eating chocolate cake, and watching the fucking CrossFit Games.

Kelsi: Oh my god. 

Michael U: Rock bottom. Wow. I'm sitting here in filth, like literally, like watching the CrossFit Games, like watching these amazing superhumans. And I'm like, what the fuck, dude? And I pull myself up out of bed, I go in the bathroom, I'm looking at myself in the mirror, and I'm irate. I'm so mad at myself. Because this was my doing this wasn't anybody else. This was me. I did this and I looked at my and what there's a time for peace And there's a time for war. This was a time for war and it's like you motherfucker You little bitch like everything you could imagine this is where the Goggins thing probably makes a lot of sense and as I'm doing this like this memory came in of me being eight years old and the water company had come turned our water off. It's very common as normally turn off our heat or electricity, whatever. It's very normal. And my mom tells me, go in the backyard and get the bucket and go to the neighbor's house and get some water because it's August in Indiana. It's blistering hot. So, I go in the backyard. I get this little blue bucket. I walk across the street to our neighbor's house. I turn on the spigot on the side of their house. And I still water for the first time. And I remember being like in that moment when I'm a grownup, this won't be my life. And I realized looking in that mirror at heading into 26, it was a couple months away. I was like, you broke that promise. And I started asking myself what are you willing to do? What are you willing to do to have the life that you want to have? And the answer was no excuses, just results. And that's why I'm here today. And if people can get to that, everything's different. 

Kelsi: How do you suggest they start?

Michael U: Stop being a bitch. 

Kelsi: Yes. 

Michael U: I'm not saying that to be an asshole because like you're being a bitch and nobody's calling you out, right? I'm not here to be your friend. That's not Bill Belichick and Tom Brady probably are not on speaking terms. 

Kelsi: No. 

Michael U: You know what I mean? But they won so many championships. I'm just here to help you win your championship.  Be honest with yourself. Look at your life and tell yourself the fucking truth. Why are you lying to yourself? 

Kelsi: Convenient. 

Michael U: Yeah, but you know what? It's the same reason you have panic attacks every day. It's the same reason you're 350 pounds. It's the same reason that the only women who are interested in you have a more fucked up life than you do. It's the same reason why your bank account's negative 50, 000. Same reason your brothers won't talk to you. You ready? 

Kelsi: You're the fucking real deal, hey? 

Michael U: I'm just me. 

Kelsi: Yeah, you're you, but it's different. It's different. I've sat across plenty of people who say, Nah, I'm just me. I'm just honest. I'm just ruthless. I'm just brutal. I'm just tell the truth and I mean it from love. I'm just me. But I know their life on the outside. I know what they're really like. I know what they're like on camera and I know what they're like off camera. And they're not the same. It's not often you get a mix where it's actually who they say they are. So when you do, it's full body chills. Because if you can do that, from where you're from, and you can become this man now, not because, not in spite of, but because of, that to me means, I don't know, I don't know why we are the way we are. Because if you can do it, why the fuck can't anybody else? 

Michael U: They can just a decision. You're one decision away every day. Do you got to want it? 

Kelsi: That's it. 

Michael U: You know what I mean? It's like people half want it. I'm like, you're not going to get it. You got, this is not mine, but this is Eric Thomas, ET hip hop preacher. I love this. He says this all the time. You got to want to succeed as much as you want to got to breathe. 

Kelsi: Yeah, 

Michael U: I'm like, yeah, it's true. But success isn't like you don't need the podcast or the books or the money. That shit doesn't matter.  How do you feel when you look at yourself in the mirror? Because I'm good. 

Kelsi: Do I fuck up?

Michael U: Yeah, for sure. A hundred percent. I'm still human. I'm not. I'm never going to sit here and be like I'm preaching from the pulpit. I'm not. I'm a nightmare. Fuck. I wouldn't want to deal with me if you were my friend or someone I date or, future partner, like business associates. I'm fucking stubborn. I'm annoying as shit. I'm driven. I'm up at five 30 in the morning. Like I go real hard. Because I know what it's like to do. None of those things.  This side is way better. Jocko Willink wrote discipline equals freedom. I will argue that book changed my life forever Because it made me realize like so much of life is just in the showing up every day. That's all I just try to show up That's all people need to do show up with intention choose what you want and go for it all out maybe I have a Get out of jail free card because I've already been homeless. So I'm not scared of it. 

Kelsi: People have never fallen that far. 

Michael U: They should try.

Kelsi: They should try, I wonder what your life would have been like your grandmother didn't step in. 

Michael U: Oh, I'd be dead. 

Kelsi: You think so?

Michael U: For sure. Yeah, a hundred percent. 

Kelsi: Same with your siblings, eh? 

Michael U: Maybe One brother had to go to the military. He had two kids by the time he was 15.

Kelsi: Lke, military or bust.

Michael U: The other one, I don't know, and I don't like speaking for the money but I will say the thing that I got out of her probably more so than anything that's been of benefit to my life it's hard work. She might have been fucking crazy as shit, but she worked. She was a worker. She took care of kids that were not hers. Now look, I will say this, she caused the problem. She was cleaning up her own mess.  This was her fault. 

Kelsi: Yeah. 

Michael U: But she worked hard. 

Kelsi: So, you took a lesson. 

Michael U: I'm a worker. I'm not afraid to get my fingernails dirty.

Kelsi: This has been a powerful one, my friend. 

Michael U: Yeah, thanks. You're amazing at this. This was fun. 

Kelsi: Yeah? Thank you. I really hope we can do it again. 

Michael U: For sure. 

Kelsi: Whenever you want. I'm just so honored, man. When I get to sit across from people where you can feel it and you can see it and it is in their bones, it's undeniable, man. It's in your soul. I can see it in your eyes. You're one of the only people that can hold a fucking stare with me, my friend. 

Michael U: I'm not scared of you. 

Kelsi: I know, which is really ironic, because everyone seems to be. That's you've said a lot of things that have hit a lot of different places, and a lot of, moved a lot of emotion. I'm not gonna lie, you said something as a mother when I hear, I know you could see me very viscerally feel, and it, this was not reactionary, this was, It's gonna take some decompressing from. Thank you for showing up. 

Michael U: Thank you. Fuck yeah. 

Kelsi: So, you said, for those people that can't afford to buy the book, how do they get a hold of you? 

Michael U: Yeah. I'm everywhere on social at Michael unbroken. You can go to think unbroken podcast. com. And if you want the book, you can go to book.hinkunbroken.com, or you can go to the library. 

Kelsi: They allow your book in the library. 

Michael U: Yeah. It's not like fucking mind comp. 

Kelsi: You did learn it. You never know nowadays, my friend. So everything's on social, everything's on email. Amazing. Thank you for this opportunity. Thank you for being vulnerable and thank you for showing up for my listeners because I can tell you right now you've just changed a lot of people's lives. For as harsh as you may seem that you are to some people, you're exactly What they need. 

Michael U: Thank you. 

Kelsi: I'm honored. Thank you so much for joining us on the Brass and Unity podcast, we'll put everything in the show notes. Everyone else, we'll see y'all next week.