Mindfulness for Success | with Dr. Pete

Michael: Pete, I'm so excited to have you on the conversation in the podcast today. Dr. Pete, you've worked with some of the most high-end elite and professional athletes, the NFL, major league soccer, NHL, dude, you've worked with behavioralism, holistic, strength based and wellness. You've done so much in terms of understanding not only high performance, but how people can really adopt these lifestyle changes, shifts, mindset, the growth, so many of the things that. I think a lot of us as like regular civilians who are athletes, like really want out of their life. So, I'm excited to have this conversation. Why should people listen to today's episode?

Dr. Pete: Because even though it sounds like I've done a lot, I feel like I've done nothing. And so I think listeners will get a little tips some tips on how to be their best self. And I think sometimes when businesses bring me in, they're just excited that they have the sports analogies and the sports psychologists that could come in and help improve performance. And dude, I'm excited for us to have that conversation, see where it takes us. And, maybe we'll Be a little less broken.

Michael: I hope so. Here, that's interesting. There's I've noticed, especially in entrepreneurship and a lot of really high performers, where. Whether it's in business, if they're executives, maybe they're just like the greatest mom of all time or they're athletes. They tend to come from some pretty dark background. Do you see that holds true?

Dr. Pete: Yeah. I think on the east coast, like in New Jersey, we'll call it grit. And I say New Jersey. I think a lot of sports are in different areas. We'll talk about grit. But grit is really ingrained in the New Jersey culture. Watch Sopranos or all these other things. You just realize that. We have an edge and edge is what makes performance. And so one of the things I work on with some of the high performers I work with is not getting rid of grit, not trying to heal necessarily. But how do I effectively channel that? Because that darkness, I think you're absolutely right. A lot of us, that's what it, that becomes our, why it motivates us. To want to be the best at whatever it is that we're doing.

Michael: What let's go deep into this for a second. I read Angela Duckworth book GRIT years and years ago. Can you define grit for us and your interpretation of what that means?

Dr. Pete: Wow. That's such, I wish I had some better preparation for that. It's a good question. I'm sure there's like a good urban dictionary definition or something. I don't think it's an Oxford. I don't actually know. Cause if it's probably food, if it's in the Oxford dictionary, right? Cause it's like…

Michael: Yeah, probably.

Dr. Pete: But I think the way that I would think about it in the world of sports or how in this metropolitan New York metropolitan area we talk about it is that, that edge or like the chip on the shoulder that, that thing that just sometimes makes you see black and not even know what you're doing. And so sometimes it's channeled from something in the past. But grit is also like understanding that sacrifice is important, an important part of success. And so that you're not having FOMO in grit, if you will. So for, fear of missing out, that's not a part of grit. Grit is you just, you grind. And you miss family events. You miss social events. You, you're like you're doing your art more than you're not. And that's, I don't know. I don't know if I did a good job defining it, but what do you think?

Michael: Sure. Yeah, I've always looked at it as the ability to persevere, right? And I think the chip on the shoulder analogy is very fitting. And I honestly, I'm a proponent of more people leveraging that. I honestly believe that we should, as individuals tap into our dark energy a little bit more. I have these moments where I'm standing on the edge of Trying to create my life. And sometimes I got to go to a dark place, but oddly in, in society, we live under this assumption, like that's a bad thing. What are your thoughts about that?

Dr. Pete: I think you're talking about resilience. And so resilience would be like another thing that, should be defined and resilience usually has some kind of reference to adversity. So being the ability to overcome adversity. I, one of the things we talk about is also mental toughness, mental toughness is being able to be resilient. It's being able to work at a high level. It's not backing down. It's managing emotions. Some definitions will say control emotions so to your point, it's like when I'm black or dark. Do that, and do that effectively. It's not don't run away from it. I think that's one of the things that some people will do is they run away from that emotion because they're scared of it or for whatever reason what we try and do and that's mental toughness, resilience is grit is how do I effectively manage it so that it actually catapults me to where I want to go.

Michael: Where's the, where's like the differentiation between that place of self care and self awareness and like really pushing through, because I think part of our social nomenclature right now, and I say this just as an observer and I've. probably been and fell victim to this as well is we live in a very weak minded time, right? Where's the separation? Where's the distance or the balancing between you've got to get up, go 100 miles an hour, build and create your life, get the championship, And actually I need to just do nothing today. Like, how are you help? Cause I know you must have these athletes come to you with this question, right?

Dr. Pete: Yeah, it in mindfulness, we call it middle path. So you're always trying to find, or in the Yerkeses Dawson's performance curve, you're always finding this sweet spot, where's the sweet spot of self care wellness with perseverance and grit? A colleague, good friend of mine, Jonathan Fader author of Life is Sport, he would always say that we're anthropologists in this way because we don't, we really don't belong, like we're trying to figure this out, like where does emotion fit in high performance, how can I be, how can I work with that? from an emotional intelligence perspective with a boxer or with an American football player. This is a sport or an expectation that is really focused on, I don't say getting at your opponent, boxing is, a pretty violent sport. A lot of these, American football is pretty violent. So you almost don't want to be too emotionally intelligent because then you might not hit your opponent in the way that you're supposed to, which could also get you injured. So it is like a sweet spot. So finding that middle path is the art of what I do. And with each individual I sit with, or team that I work with, or organization, we're trying to find that sweet spot.

Michael: I want to go deeper into the sweet spot in just a moment. I have a question for you there, but can you define high performance for us?

Dr. Pete: High performance is like a term that we've used in the sport, exercise, and performance psychology world, which is, really anyone that's Functioning at a higher level. And so what that means is I'm not just punching in and punching out. So sometimes we talk about like banker's hours, for example. So I also work with, CEOs, portfolio managers in the finance world people that are really like high functioning. And so, they're trying to function at the highest level to bring their company or to bring their team or organization to the highest level. So that's who that is. So it's a real kind of generic term that encapsulates all of these individuals.

Michael: It's funny. I was thinking recently, so with my coach in business, one of the things that we talk about a lot is how do you serve the person that you once were like, that's such a big part of the conversation. And as I thought about it deeper, one of the things that I realized is that when I was in my early twenties, I was a high performer in business. I was more successful than all of my friends. I crushed in business, but I was also a disaster in a lot of ways. Cause I hadn't really understood the triad of life and being able to navigate like high performance in my health, my wealth. And my relationships. And so I think in this one, in the context of what you've been able to do and understand and articulate into the world, high performances, sport is, Kobe and LeBron and MJ, and then you have Conor McGregor and John Jones, and then you have, and messy and you have these people that you can look at and go, those guys are high performers. I've always looked at it and thought to myself, yeah, but so is the dude who's 27 years old and a CEO. And so is the mom running the household with six kids. And you look at this and these are real life examples, but I feel like people don't give themselves enough credit for their performance. How do How do you help people? Cause I know one of the things that athletes must come to you for is like not recognizing their own talent, even if they're the best in the world. How do you help them do that?

Dr. Pete: I love that you keep giving the shout out to, the homemaker. 'cause I think that is a really important role and a lot of the people I work with would not trade spots with their partner to run the house, 'cause it is a really challenging role. And so in that regard, some people use work or this high performance as an escape, and I think maybe that's what you were figuring out in your twenties was like it was motivating you and it was, and it yielded good outcomes. But in that triad, it wasn't fully fulfilling. And so what we really focus on is a value based model, a value based living, provides people with more holistic and global satisfaction across all these different domains in their life.

Michael: It does that lead down the path of finding the sweet spot? Is that like a precursor?

Dr. Pete: yeah, I think so. At least in the way that I do it, because I, if it were, this is the thing, if it were just that easy in a formula. We would all be doing it, like not everyone flies private. Not everyone can go out to dinner, once a week, there's different there's all levels of, of success. And not everyone wants to do that. Like that's not everyone's desire. So the value based living helps people inventory. Where they're going, it's the map to life, because not every life is the same and not every life should be the same. Imagine how boring that would be. That's what comes up like in couples counseling, the thing that you fall in love with is the thing that ends up driving you crazy or annoyed Right later. And sometimes people think they want to marry themselves. They're like I do it this way, or this is, but the truth is that's where yin and yang comes from. And that's the beauty of mindfulness and some of this like Eastern stuff that we bring to the Western behaviorism to say, yin and yang exists because you need balance. If you had two of the same people in a relationship you would not last. So you have to have balance. So yeah, I that's the way I conceptualize all my work is like thinking about yin and yang really.

Michael: Yeah. Let's go into value based living for a moment. We, and I have lived a life in my past where my value was money. Like it was the only thing I cared about, which, for a lot of people make sense when you come from nothing. I was homeless as a kid. You do what you have to do to survive. And then when I first got those tastes of like success and money, it became everything. And I didn't realize until after I hit this very disturbing rock bottom at 26, where I was like, Oh, money isn't the thing. But I think that now in societally money is the key. Topic of conversation across the board, right? Whether it's inflation or politics or, the price of gas or the cost of groceries, and people don't make a living wage anymore. And so many people have focused their energy and tunnel vision into money, but that's not living. And I think that's the thing people can get lost in. How do we get into a value based living, not only society, but as individuals, like how do we set our lives up to actually be able to like inventory what's going on to create the life that we want to have through value based living?

Dr. Pete: Yeah. It's a really good point. I think it reminds me of, I don't remember who's saying it, but more money, more problems, and I think yeah, I should have, that's what, is that West coast? Is that maybe what it was? Yeah. Anyway because I do think there's a lot of people that do chase that thinking that will solve problems. But the bottom, with say people in finance, when they achieve their, that whatever the goal is, I want X amount in the bank account, then that's never enough. And you want then the next. which is healthy. It's always healthy to set these, intermittent goals. But if you're chasing a goal line that doesn't exist and keeps moving, you're chasing your tail. If I've ever watched a dog chase its tail. Value based living just helps you like, so if I'm leaving, Newark airport to go to California to visit you, Vegas, out West coast I'm going. Multiple routes that I could take to get there. If I'm driving is multiple states that I could go across different airlines. I could take different times. I could leave. So, value based living just helps you select which one fits more with your belief system and your current lifestyle. So, it's not right or wrong, and it shifts over time. And so, there's different domains that we pick up on within the values, occupational, intellectual, financial, spiritual familial, romantic, all these sorts of areas. And so we take inventory of all of them to, just again to create the map of how we're going, wherever it is that we're going.

Michael: if I'm at the starting. If I'm at the starting point, and I'm pretty unsure about the direction in general, where do I begin formulating these ideas about values?

Dr. Pete: You just take one step. That's the thing. So being at the starting line is the greatest place to be. One of the concepts we have in mindfulness is beginner's mind. So even if you're super satisfied, successful and in whatever area of your life and career, personal, all that stuff there's still a beginner's mind.

Do it as if it's the first time you're doing it. But to start with the value, there's lots of inventories out there. You could probably just Google values inventory. Colleague of mine that I work very closely with who developed this back in the eighties. There's the eight dimensions of wellness, Peggy Swarbrick, so these are things that are out there. There's lots of tools. That's the thing, like you could Google and get anything. And so just start with a inventory, my website, my clinical website has a bunch of inventories on them for people just to, it's PDF just to check out and see, and you just go through and see Hey, what, one of the, one of the inventories has, you say, like, how happy are with your Romantic value. How important is it? And how satisfied are you? Because, or parenting, how important, how satisfied, because somebody might not have any children but they might be totally satisfied with that. And even though society tells them that they should have, which is a cognitive distortion should have children, it's not within their value system. And so if you can get a sense of that then really you're not as impacted by these, societal kind of stressors that come in and really mess with us.

Michael: And when you do that, are there mistakes or pitfalls that you see people fall into?

Dr. Pete: Yeah, and Ellis, you would say just you should all over yourself. That's not explicit. You should all over yourself. Because the shoulds, I should be married. I should have kids. I should have a good job. I should have a full-time job. I should, whatever it is, these might be expectations, but are they your, value-based expectations? And that's what we look at. So those are the pitfalls usually. So sometimes people will fill it out. And they'll come back and they have the perfect, it's all clean and everything's filled out in a really nice way and it's all the proper responses and then I'll push a little bit and I'm like that's probably what you felt like you were supposed to like family, for example, right? Like everyone feels like family is supposed to be like the highest rated of importance. And again, maybe it is but is it in everyone's case? It's not and that's okay. But I think a lot of people feel like this pressure that it's supposed to be, or shame that it's not.

Michael: and I think that pressure and shame leads down this road of massive stress. It's something I've even faced, when I was first building this career in this business, I had all these notions and ideas of like, how do you really be the number one trauma coach in the world? How do you write the best book and have the best podcast and stand above the rest and do all these things? And the press dude, the fucking pressure I put on myself was crippling 200 days a year on an airplane, speaking at all these events, traveling the country in the world, just going. And then I realized that I was like, unbelievably unhappy. And in fact, I almost shut the business down last year. I ended up calling one of my best friends cause as a high performer, and this is where I'm going with this, but as a high performer, man, we, we go places that are dark, not necessarily in the best way. And I was pushing and pushing. And I call my best friend and I say, I think I'm going to close think unbroken. And he's I think you just need a vacation and a vacation wasn't enough because it's actually burned out, right? And that's a thing that I did not think that existed because I was in my values. I was doing the thing. I was going hard. I was helping all these people. Then I realized like a high performance also requires rest and recovery, right? You talked about this sweet spot. That I am still in the phase of like on the tell end of getting back to the full strength and level that I was at, how as high performers, how do we get into the sweet spot and does being in the sweet spot help avoid burnout?

Dr. Pete: Yeah, a hundred percent it does. So I, and in social science, behavioral science, we don't say much. Anything is a hundred percent. We don't like to speak in absolutes, but I would say a hundred percent the sweet spot does prevent burnout. That's one of the hardest. Compromise resolutions, if you will, for high performers because they feel like they have to grind and grit, so full circle moment, how we started talking about this and it's not until you can let go and say, I need to check out, I need one of the things I thought about Michael, as you're talking was like psychological immunity. Yeah, 200 days on the plane, sitting with other people's traumas, all this stuff. What am I doing to protect my own psychological, health and wellbeing. So that's the psychological, immunity that you really want to make sure that we're protecting around this because, we have depending spiritual beliefs, we have this one life to live. And so we want to get the most out of it, hopefully. And especially in high performing, you want to do what you can. And that's one of the things where like I have some of these finance folks with lots of money in the bank, but they're miserable. So it's cool. What's that doing for you? Okay. It's, does it make you like, how good is that? Maybe you can't even enjoy it. You can't take it. So the sweet spot is probably the most important thing, for one for these high performers to establish. And it sounds like you're still even just finding it, which is beautiful, right? ‘Cause it's not, there's not a one size fits all. And it's not like you find it and you're done. It's you find it, it moves. You got to play around with it a little bit really see. But I'm glad that your friend told you just to take that vacation.

Michael: Yeah. And I would say it's actually incredibly frustrating. And I'm curious if you hear this from the people you work with, because here I am sitting everything is hitting the mark I am crushing and then one day I wake up and I was just like, wow. I'm completely fried and on the backside of it, like having a four-month hiatus and going to South America and just really spending some time on me, I came back and I was still there. Like I had not yet fully formed and recovered a year. We are a year later. Dr. P a year later, and I'm just now like hitting that stride again. And the frustration that I find in it is I've never experienced this before. I've had to adapt my lifestyle and my energy and my output while has, as a high performer, I'm always thinking about how do I make my output bigger? And my output has stayed the same. And that's where the frustration lies. What do you tell these unbelievable athletes where they're like, man, I'm on a 10-game shooting streak and I'm only putting down eight buckets.

Dr. Pete: Yeah, makes the best athlete, MJ didn't hit every basket, LeBron misses, some game winning shots. The best athlete is able to do that and get back up, they're not holding onto it. And I think frust, when I'm feeling frustrated, that's part of burnout. It's part of, that's one of the symptoms. It's also part of perspective. So if I'm frustrated, then my perspective is that I'm not supposed to feel this way, or I have some other sort of judgment of my feeling or expectation. And so that's the work, and hopefully that's what we start to work on is like, how do I let go of those expectations? How do I just embrace what is, and that's the foundation of mindfulness. It's, I'm doing what I'm doing on purpose in the present moment without judgment. And so I have to say I'm burnt out. Cool. Let me like, not judge that. And then when I come back, not be like, I'm still burnt out. Fuck. I'm frustrated. That's more judgment of it versus observing what is. And it's like, all right, like I was at a 10 and now I'm at a seven. So that's where I'm at right now, and then what do I got to do to get down to a six and a five in terms of stress level? It's just got to be one step at a time. One of the metaphors we use a lot is If you're in the woods or if you're taking like a bird's eye view of a rainforest, if you look at it globally and holistically, it's overwhelming, it's really full intense, but what if you just looked at one leaf at a time and that's the way you want to think about life is you just want one leaf that you're working on at a time. And then it's manageable. It's not manageable. It's not, it's less manageable when it's the entire forest.

Michael: Yeah. And I think a lot of people feel this right and they come on the backside of the stresses of life, maybe a failed relationship, maybe let's call it a relationship that they learned from, or like a business has collapsed or illness or, all the things I teach my clients all the time. This simple phrase, life is going to life. And to me, that means, the next thing is always around the quarter because it's just the nature of the human experience. And in that I have found freedom in that. And where my inner peace comes from is that space of knowing that this too shall pass. And that has given me a lot of freedom in my life. But the way that I look at it, it's like you have. And I think we'll probably stay in a lot of sports analogy today, but like you have the star athlete who tears the Achilles, who comes back and he just can't turn it on. I think that's what happens to a lot of people. And one of the things that I'm curious about is. You talked about this psychological immunity is part of getting back to the place where you can turn it on. Is that really a mindset thing? And if so, what steps are involved to get there?

Dr. Pete: So first I want to go back, like what we say lately, a lot of the athletes life be life in, and that's just what it is. It's just what it's, and that's truly to me is acceptance. It's accepting what is in front of you. I think it is. So psychological immunity is a part of it, and the athlete that was injured. We've got a lot of amazing sports science and protocols around that. And a lot of it is mental. If you think because the injury was traumatic your trauma coach, like the brain encodes that at a neurological level that is not easy to rewire but there's one thing that really, we know, rewires the brain and that's mindfulness it's a mindfulness meditation is able to change the brain so we can, re encode memories. And so we work with athletes that have had significant injuries from the day their injury occurs. And then right before surgery and right after surgery and then during physical therapy and rehab, there's a whole process around that so that you're rewiring the brain. So it's not holding on to that because the thing that's usually happening in any of these performance issues is that it's something from the past or worry about the future. Okay. So again, you like, I keep infusing a lot of mindfulness in this, but that's just how the brain is wired. We have a lot to learn from thousands of years, of Eastern philosophy and practice. That I think is really in, still in the infant stages here in the West.

Michael: Oh, yeah. We're learning new things about the brain at a pace that we don't even understand. And I saw a recent article online where the idea that we only use 10 percent of our brain has been dispelled and it's actually closer to 0. 4%. I don't know if you saw, but it's yeah, that makes sense. Cause we don't, we're probably telepathic and we just haven't even figured it out yet.

Dr. Pete: 100 percent. I believe that. That to me just feels like a it's an opinion because that's really hard, that's really hard to test.

Michael: Yeah. You can't prove that. I'm curious, let's go into the psychological immunity concept for a moment, because I understand what it means and I don't want to lose people in the conversation who might be like, what, first, what is it? And then two, secondly, what is it that we need to do to nurture it?

Dr. Pete: So first it's you know, if you're on a train, you know here in New York and Somebody's sneezing and coughing especially like post covid you're likely gonna turn away from them or cover your mouth or cover your nose Yeah, so that's what it is. And so that's the two that's the how to, you know, so it's just protect yourself from you know with my students. I call it like the lifetime movie it's very easy to get wrapped up in some of that stuff. In Buddhism, we talk about the eightfold path. So it's a it's like right speech, right action. And so like gossip doesn't fit in that, and so you're trying to be holistic and pure in a way. That aligns with your values. Turning away from, as I would on the train with somebody who's sneezing and coughing the people that aren't really contributing to my life or the situations that are not fulfilling me, and really taking inventory of that because It's very it's easy to get, sucked in both in terms of just habits and just you just get stuck in situations. And it's like why somebody who's been in abusive relationship might find themselves in an abusive relationship again. Some of us that haven't done that's hard for us to understand but that's just how we're wired, some of us. And so just being able to rewrite that is really powerful. And that's psychological immunity.

Michael: And in that, growing up, one of the things that I've been able to become known for is helping people work through the most traumatic experiences of their life, break the pattern and rebuild themselves. And for me, the biggest part of that is showing people that the thing that they're most scared of in terms of their growth, their achievement and their success is the very thing that's going to set them free of what they're stuck in front of. And what's so shocking to me, even to this day, and I've worked, man, I've coached executives for some of the biggest companies in the world and people who are mom and pops and, run small businesses, everyone in between. And the one commonality that I find is that when they are around negativity begets negativity. Doubt begets doubt this idea of not enoughness begets not enoughness. And some people's feel so unbelievably trapped because of just what's around them.

Dr. Pete: Yeah.

Michael: When you're working with people. And I know, cause we know the average professional athlete comes from a broken home, especially in the United States. We know this, they come from poverty, sports is the out and once they get often you see this where it's this space where there's still a foot in, right? When you're working with these guys and gals and these people, and they're trying to really break free of all of that and create that immunity and be able to really go perform at the highest level, where do you begin in the process of breaking those old thought patterns that are tied probably both subconsciously and somatically to the experiences of the past?

Dr. Pete: Yeah, it's again, not a one size fits all. And I don't, I think I'm just going to challenge just a little bit because we use what's called relational frame theory. And this is a neurological theory that says that words have a neurological pathway and create you know, both images and feelings. And so to say to break thought patterns is like a, I have a real strong reaction to that because it just suggests that I can get rid of things. And I wish I could, there's a lot of stuff I wish I could get rid of. And so actually the first place you start is with acceptance. I have to accept what's there. And actually it may be with me forever. I may never be able to get rid of it. And so I think, especially in the trauma literature, as a cognitive behavioral therapist, like we can desensitize to, and, we have all the, EMDR and prolonged exposure. We've got a lot of empirical evidence for how to treat these traumas. But one of the fundamental issues. requirements is alliance and relationship, with people around you and the provider that's doing this with you, and so that's obviously why you're so good at this. Cause you build connection and they have a real kind of strong sort of interpersonal ability to help people feel safe. And that's like the first step. Then you work on rewriting the narrative just to, and the way that I look at it is like through core beliefs, these traumatic experiences. Really shape our core beliefs, which is I think you were saying this earlier about your coach, like talking to your, your former self. And I think that a lot of times the core beliefs get shaped at a young age and we carry it with us, that's the thief of the past, the football coach I work with, it's a thief of the past it's going to be with me. But there's another great analogy that we use in this relational frame three world called demons on the boat. And really helpful for people to YouTube that. But we all have demons. I don't know. I've never met a human being who doesn't have a demon. You're with me on that.

Michael: 100%.

Dr. Pete: So we all have them. Yeah. Some of us have more passengers than others, that's cool. Like nonjudgment. But everyone's got at least one. And so the, I can't get to where I'm going. And this is the analogy is really about value based living. I can't get to where I'm going if I don't recognize that they're not going to kill me. Like they're just passengers on my boat. I'm going to have to exist with them. But if I don't, when I don't learn that, then I stay astray and I'm not where I want to be.

Michael: Yeah. And one of the really beautiful things about mindfulness in this practice, especially around like moving through those thought patterns and those beliefs is that if you can get to the place where you can imagine the opposite on a long enough timeline, you can embody that. And it's one of those things where I look at it and I agree with you. Awareness is number one. And I often frame awareness as honesty, right? And I look at it and I go for what you recollect, what you recall, what you remember, what actually happened, right? And in that. It's (A) it's one of the most difficult things that I think anyone ever does because it requires you to have some very hard conversation, but (B) what it does that most people don't recognize is it frees you. And so when I think about this idea of about becoming you, right? ‘Cause think about this so much about high performance is what, and this is my opinion. I'd love to know yours. I believe that high performance is about embodying the reality that you believe you're capable of creating and in that shining as, as bright as you can shine, doing the best that you can do and showing up and attempting to hit the home run every single day, even though you may not. And I think that so much of it comes through the effort and not the result.

Dr. Pete: Yeah. No, it's beautiful. I think I don't think I would change that at all. I think my language around that is process not outcome because every high performer will struggle. No matter what, if in the world of finance, I'm going to make a couple bad decisions, investments in sport, I'm going to miss a couple, game winning shots, or passes. So yeah, you have to focus on the process, not outcome. And I like what you said, you have to embody it. I think you said like embody what you want to see. So you have to be able to see it. I think that's, so from one of the first sessions we'll establish goals. And sometimes I don't know what I want to do. I'm like, all right, then I don't know what you want to do. And so what are we doing?

Michael: Totally.

Dr. Pete: Yeah. So you have to know you have to be able to see it. And I'm not like in a visualized. What is that Shonda oh, geez, I forget what the secret, the secret, Shonda Rhimes, I think it was, yeah not in like the manifesting if I see it, then it comes on my front lawn, but I have to at least envision like what it looks like to win a national title or to lead a company to, fortune 10 sort of status. If I can't see that it's unlikely to happen. So I at least have to try and envision that, for it to happen. So, I love the way you said it.

Michael: people are so tied to outcome, though, that I think they're crippled by it. How do you navigate that? How do you get people to, for lack of a better way to phrase it, appreciate the process, appreciate the journey, have that be the thing that they hang their hat on while outcome, obviously tremendously important. You don't get a championship ring. If you don't win the game, we all know this, right? But on the path to the championship are all these little victories. I think people do a very terrible job of celebrating that. How do we get people more process oriented while also having them focused on the outcome and winning the championship?

Dr. Pete: So, I guess you practice mindfulness obviously, but that's also it's about celebrating the small victories. That's actually a saying that we have in mindfulness. And you have to along the way because you have them up to the national championship. They don't just come. And so you have to celebrate the small victories in order to get there but it is process. And surrendering, and so helping people surrender to that, where you say you're not going to, you're going to miss some shots. And I think in today's world, Like it or not because of social media, I think everyone has a better sense of that because everyone's seen like a tick tock or a podcast that has said that, would you agree on that? I feel like there's so much more information out there that people are at least when I started doing like this acceptance-based value-based mindfulness thing, like 15 plus years ago, people had no idea what it was. People didn't even know what really mindfulness was. the general population. So I would start to do this and they'd be like, what? They would feel like you could feel their like weird energy around it. Now people seek me out for that. So I think there's just been like a little bit more knowledge, socially that this is part of the process. I feel like everyone's heard process, not outcome already.

Michael: I'm going to, here's my thought.

Dr. Pete: Yeah.

Michael: On one hand, I agree with you completely. And on the other hand, I think to myself, because of the ungodly amount of scrutiny on social media, it traps people in fear and they are terrified to even share the process. And it's if I'm not famous, rich, got a six pack and have the most attractive partner in planet earth, then I'm not worth shit. And I think, I It's almost like the middle of that doesn't exist where you can have a little bit of both. I don't know, man, cause I hate social media tremendously. I think it does nothing but hurt people to tell you the truth.

Dr. Pete: When it's using you, I think that's the key, right? So that's one of the things we do because I this is where I love working with university athletes because they're you know 18 to 24 years old So their brain is still evolving and I think if we can intervene at that level We will have healthier adults and a healthier sort of future generation, you know you know super pageant Answer kind of way. But it's it, I just think it's true. And so I look at, am I using it? And it's not using me. And I think that's key. I would want listeners to really reflect on that.

Michael: Yeah. And I think that also ties into this idea about your goals, right? Or, who's in control of these. Cause I, I think people will set these, I believe that your goal should make you incredibly uncomfortable, but they shouldn't be impossible. That's how I sit in them. And one of the things that I sit down with my clients day one, whether you're in a group program or one on one, I go, we need to write three goals, one in the truck and each of the triad of life, health, wealth, relationship, they need to be attainable, but they need to make you sweat. And I think people, instead of making themselves sweat, make themselves drown. And because of that they don't even take a step into the pool. What are your, what is the process for you when you're helping people like delve into these goals and build something that they're moving towards?

Dr. Pete: Yeah. I love what you just said. I think that's a nice metric. And I think that there's great models out there. We use smart goals, specific, measurable, attainable, realistic, and time bound. I do like to do like a one year, five year, 10 year plan. I think even strategic planning, we take that from organizational development world and but I do a strategic plan for your life, in, in, cool. That's fun project, like you can do with your partner, you can do it with your whole family, sit down at dinner and that's the conversation. Let's do this. And I look at it through these four pillars that, that behaviorally what are, what decisions are people making holistic, again Like everything, like interdisciplinary, like exercise, acupuncture, all that type of stuff, strength based, thinking about you've had a lot of really great reframes today. I could tell, so perspective and just thinking about the small victories is a strength based approach and then being and wellness, and so what's my commitment to that? And what's my plan? One of the things I say is it's really easy to feel like shit. You could just drink a bottle of wine to eat a box of Oreos. It takes a lot of work to feel good. It takes a lot of work. I gotta meditate. I gotta wake up early. I gotta exercise. I gotta eat well. I gotta sleep. I gotta do all these things. And it's a little less sexy. But I, again, this is where I think social media could be helpful because I don't remember it was a guy in the NBA today. They were just, showing a bunch of articles of him talking about how he was at the club when he was 13. And now that he's reached his goals and he's in the NBA, and he's thriving. His teammates know he's not drinking. He's not going out. Not because he's antisocial, but because he's locked in and he's done what he had to do already, and I think that's a value-based decision.

Michael: Yeah. I think when you're in alignment with your values, it drives every decision that you make. And I think people can be scared of that because of the judgment, the criticism the outsiders looking in. But, because I destroyed my life so beautifully when I was 25, like it was a complete unbelievable disaster. Like the energy that it required me to pull myself out of 350 pounds smoking two packs a day, 50,000 in debt. Nobody talking to me. Like I was a disaster of a shell of a human. Cause I didn't understand the impact of trauma, what I can tell you, and this is just my own firsthand experience, the cost of the energy to fix your life. Is far and exponentially greater than making the right decision today.

Dr. Pete: Yeah, I love that. Yeah, it's so true. It's yeah, kudos to you and congrats on getting out of that. But yeah, as you say, it was. It was a pretty steep mountain. I'm sure.

Michael: But you know what every melon is. And I always keep it, I try to keep it relative, right? ‘Cause I didn't grow up in the East coast and I don't know what it's like to be raised by your parents and have the experiences. And one of the things that I think have been, has been tremendous in my journey is like recognizing that how I see the world. And what I come from isn't the same for other people. So, when I think about me as a high performer, and even though there are people in my cypher who are billionaires and run giant companies, and some of them have even invested in this company, I go, I don't want that, man. That sounds awful. Like I don't want anything to do with that. And what I want is this idea that we're talking about today, which is that sweet spot. One, one of the things I want to talk to you about here is obviously you wrote this incredible book and it's something as well as a podcast that I think people should really take some time to explore first. Can you talk to us a little bit about the book and your mission behind that? And then a little bit about the podcast and the mission behind that as well.

Dr. Pete: Yeah. You've heard of me talk a lot about mindfulness today. So mindfulness workbook for beginners is a really practical workbook that one of the first, if not the publisher said it was the first but I never believed that type of stuff, but of just general like mindfulness, not mindfulness for eating or mindfulness for anxiety or just like a how to, and that was why I really got into the project. I wrote it during COVID. And it's been really great. I think just trying to get that out there. I think the more mindful we are, the more compassionate we are. We could use a lot of that today in today's world. Again, it sounds cliche and cheesy and I'm cool with that, but it's true. Like just realizing that everyone suffers. That's the first noble truth of Buddhism. Like everyone's suffering. There's not a person that we encounter who doesn't have something in some kind of pain point. And that's what we do in the podcast. So I have my cohost, Dr. Nikki Rubin. When East meets West, we look at how Eastern spiritual practices integrate into Western behavioral medicine. So we're both cognitive behavioral therapists and I'm, I have my Zen practice. I've studied, for almost 20 years with, Roshi, which is his end teacher. And that happened during grad school. So it was this like parallel process. And so now today we have like compassion focus therapy and Buddhist psychology. And these are all things that kind of borrow from the east. And so we like make it really practical and just the foundation for which a lot of these things were built upon.

Michael: I love that. And I'm such a huge proponent for all of that. And my hope is that people will go from our show to go and explore your show because it's one of those things where it's like there's so much to the human experience that we are learning that we are tapping into. And if I were somebody who wanted to learn Zen and Buddhism and this idea of East meets West, I'd want to come and sit with someone who's been doing it for two decades. And so I'm going to encourage people to go and explore that. Guys, remember go to thinkunbroken podcast.com for this and more in the show notes. Dr. Pete, my last question for you, my friend, what does it mean to you to be unbroken?

Dr. Pete: Michael, thanks for having me. And, to be unbroken means to accept it. That you're broken.

Michael: Simple to the point could not agree more.

Dr. Pete: Zen in me.

Michael: And in that and that brokenness, then you realize that you're just like the rest of us.

Dr. Pete: The first time I sat with my teacher. Yes. The first time I sat with my teacher, I was like, how do I do this? What do I got to do? Do I got to stop drinking and got to stop eating meat? How do I be the best Buddhist I can be like a good high performer. And he just said, you're exactly where you need to be.

Michael: Powerful. And so are you, my friend. Thank you so much for being here on Broken Nation. Thank you for listening, guys. Please review the show. Share this with someone who needs it, even if it's just one person. Hit that share link. Text it to them right now, ‘cause you know, they're a high performer. They're in their own way. They need a little bit of guidance and Dr. Pete can help them, especially if they help, if he helped you today.

And Until Next Time,

My Friends Be Unbroken,

I'll See Ya.