Overcome Anxiety and Fear with a Proven Mechanical Approach | with Daniel Packard

Michael: Daniel Packard is a UC Berkeley Mechanical Engineer and the CEO of Permanent Anxiety Solutions. Daniel, my friend, welcome to Think Unbroken.

Daniel: Oh, it's an honor to be here, Michael. I love the work that you're doing. I love that your audience just wants to be unbroken and free and happier and the courage that takes. So it just feels, it feels meaningful, purposeful. To be here and share what I'm going to share with your audience. And so hello audience. Thank you for not breaking and continuing to strive to be a better you, It's not easy. And I commend you and I don't even know you. And I commend you gold stars.

Michael: I love it, I'm super excited. You and I have spent a lot of time together up until this moment. So obviously we're going to talk about what you do especially with the company and permanent anxiety solutions, which is like a game changer. But first, if you were to define your childhood in a single word. What word would that be?

Daniel: My God, the word that comes to mind is like confused, I was confused, I was confused.

Michael: Yeah, that's my word. I feel like that's a very common place for a lot of kids to be. I'd love for you to dive into that a little bit more and tell us, what does that mean? And what role has that played in your life?

Daniel: Oh my god, that question is so just perfect. Because where the confusion came from and how that led to the work that we do. What we developed over eight years was a system that Is solving anxiety and fear permanently, And we care about results, And the reason the results matter so much to me is based on where this confusion came from. It all ties together. I'm going to show you how I'm going to link confusion and results, the reason I was confused is because growing up, my dad, he wasn't one of those. I'm proud of you. Good job. I love you. Attaboy dads. I'm probably the only kid who had a dad like this, right? Just me, it's just me. And now I can look back and I can have compassion for him and I understand his limitations. But man, at the time, you're looking for approval, and I couldn't get it, and everyone else was telling me like, you're a rock star, you're incredible. Look at all these things you're doing. And he never did. So I did what a lot of kids do is I came up with this plan to get his approval I knew my kid, my, my parents cared about college applications. And so I decided to run for class president so that my dad would see that and go, Oh, good job. It's just a softball pitch. It's easy. Hey, I'm class president. Good job. I know he loves me. So I run for class president and I win and I'm like, Oh yeah. And I'm walking home. So confident, not realizing, how limited my dad is. And I'm like, I'm gonna tell him I'm class president. He's going to say, good job. And I'll know he loves me. So I walk in and I'm all confident and I got my backpack on and I said, Hey, dad, guess who's class president. And he says, don't let it interfere with your homework. And I'm like, that's not the way this was supposed to go, man, read the script. You just say, good job. And it hurts so bad and was confusing that I was so hurt and scared that in a last ditch of childlike vulnerability, I just looked at him and I was crying. I was doing those hyperventilating crying, when your kid, when you're like, and I had a snot bubble and I looked at him and I just said, what? Like why can't you just tell me you're proud of me? And he looks at me and he says, it's not my job to tell you when I'm proud of you. It's my job to tell you when you mess up. And I'm like, okay, first of all, I don't think that's top notch parenting be super confusing, very confused. And of course that leaves a mark. And I'm sure your audience can relate to their own versions of limited parents, but it confused me, left me feeling not good enough, undeserving, very confusing. However, my dad did give me a gift accidentally that I'm always grateful for the thing he I wouldn't say he took away from me, but he messed with my self esteem and self worth in that moment. Now I've since heavily recovered, but still in the moment, I'm not giving my dad gold stars for that. But what I will give him gold stars for is that he was a scientist, he was a physicist, and he told me something really important that stuck with me. One is he was an inventor. He would invent things. He would go out, he would go to the store or the stereo store or even the car store, and he would look at things, and if things weren't working that well, he would just make his own. He had a workshop. He would just make a better version. And he told me, he said, Hey, Daniel, if something in this world isn't working, make a better version. And I thought that was so empowering, it was like an Avenger. He would just make stuff. He was like Q from James Bond, and I love that. And he also told me, and this really stuck with me, he said, Daniel, anybody can come up with a theory or an idea or a concept, but the person you want to trust is the person that gets results and results matter, results is what people need. Not more ideas, not more content results. And that idea of inventing things that work and get results was cool. I became like a little kid inventor, remember Ferris Bueller? He had that room with all those like pulleys and things and that was me. I would MacGyver little things and invent things. And then I went to engineering school where I was properly trained how to look at a complex problem, build a prototype, and then test it and optimize until the thing got consistent results.

Not just results, consistent results, and it was very fast. It was very satisfying to make something that makes the world better that gets results. And the problem is, I knew how to make machines work and bicycles work and bridges work, but I didn't know how to make relationships work. So when I got out of engineering school, I fell in love and spoiler alert, did not live happily ever after. Disney is going to get a strongly worded letter from me about that. And she I later found out I was being emotionally and verbally abused, but I was too insecure and feeling not good enough. From the experience of my dad, that I stayed and that was on me. I stayed, I got my issues with her, but I stayed. And two weeks after the relationship was over somebody, I was just talking to a friend and they interrupted me, something really small. And all of a sudden I get filled with terror and I'm like, Oh that's new, I don't like that. And then the next day I was most supposed to be to a friend for coffee and they were running five minutes late. And all of a sudden my chest tightens and I feel like I'm going to die, and I'm like, okay this is not. So I go to a therapist and they said, you have severe anxiety and complex PTSD complications from, this abusive relationship, and I went that makes sense. So like your audience, it's struggling. I go looking for help, man. I went to psychologists and therapists. And spiritual teachers and gurus, I went to retreats, I did ayahuasca, I did EMDR and EFT and CGT and CBT and MOUSC. Man, I did all the letters. Michael did all the letters, all the acronyms. I went to all the experts who had letters at the end of their name. And what I wanted was to be free of this after a hundred grand in 10 years, I wasn't free, I just could manage it, but I was in a lot of pain. My all my friends and family walked away because they didn't want to be around a person in pain leaving me feeling even more broken and alone and trapped and when you're in pain and you're unhappy and you've gone for help and you can't do anything more than manage it I felt trapped and I lost started to lose hope And I wouldn't have taken my own life But man, I got why people do, I saw it. I used to judge people like, why would you do that? And I got it because when you're in pain and you can't live the life you want, and you've gone for help and nothing's work, you feel trapped and hopeless. And I felt hopeless. And in that moment of like broken surrender, I remember I was in the fetal position in terror and broken, and I look up to the sky. And I'm like, whoever's up, I'm like, dude, I don't know if I called him dude, but I was like, dude, what do you want from me, man? I get this as a test. I get it to test, but I've spent the last 10 years trying to pass your test. And that was, what do you want? What do you want to do it? But I don't know. And in that moment of openness, I heard the words of like my dad, which was, if something's not working, invent something better and results matter. And it hit me because I looked at this trillion dollar industry of therapy, psychology, personal development, and spirituality. It's a trillion, with a T, dollars a year. And I saw it doesn't get permanent results, it's not getting great results. And we need something better, and out of desperation for my own pain, for all the people that I saw were in pain, and needed something more than just management, I naively started a research company with the goal to say, could we do this better? Could I use my engineering training to reverse engineer a system that would really allow people to be permanently free of fear and anxiety? I didn't know if we could. I just said, I got to try, and it took three years, and over a million dollars in research and testing, and I was one of the first test cases that got the benefit. I remember waking up one morning and I felt calm and it was weird. I hadn't felt calm in a decade, and I thought this is temporary, it's got to come back, and it never came back. A week goes by a month goes by, I've been chill as a cucumber. For 10 years straight, nothing gone. And when my team saw that the first month, they said, we did it. Like we cracked it. I was like, no man, like we did it for me. I'm yay for me, but we got to bring something better to the world, we got to figure out what the heck worked. And get this and present something better than what's out there because there's a lot of confused people Buying spending a lot of money on band aids and what we needed was to develop a system makes things simple and step by step and you can test a system to get better and better results. So we spent another five years testing this system How to make it simple how to lay things out perfectly how to have instructions so that nobody can You Fail at it. We don't want people trying and failing and then feeling worse about themselves. It's no, we got enough of that in the world. So our system through a crap ton of testing has a 90 percent success rate for any type of fear or anxiety unless if you're on the planet earth and you breathe oxygen. And you have fear and anxiety. We can help you, but then also, and most importantly, because results matter, we don't charge people at the beginning. We don't charge people at the beginning because we haven't helped you yet, and we haven't earned your money. We charge people at the very end of the program, when we have clear, measurable data. When you have clear, measurable data that your fear and anxiety is gone and not coming back. That's when we charge you because that's when we've helped you. If we can't, other people will take your money and not help you. I'm sure your audience knows that much, but if we can't help you, we're not taking your money because it's wrong and it's going to make you feel worse, we are not here to hurt you. We're here to help you, and we help you because my dad confused me, which led to him telling me that I needed to get results, and now I am so passionate about getting people the system so they can get results.

Michael: Yeah. There's a lot there, obviously, and I gave you the space to go through that because I think it's an incredible journey and I want to parse this out a little bit more. There's this concept I think about pretty frequently and called effective blaming and an effective blaming is looking at giving responsibility to people. For what they've done, both good and bad in your life. And I think a lot of times we, especially if you come from a traumatic background or you feel neglected or you don't get the love that you were seeking or you have a father who you never get the approval or the mother or whatever it is, we tend to blame them. Oh man, my life sucks. This is why my relationships don't work, this is why my money is bad. That's why my health is messed up. And then we forget like the positive things that come out of even that suffering. Oh, I got into UC Berkeley and I became this incredible researcher and I built this company and I've done this and I've traveled the world and I've done that. Maybe I wrote some books and maybe I spoke on some stages or maybe I just became a good dad or a good wife or whatever that thing is. And it's so funny to me how that very thing that can keep you so trapped, especially in childhood, because you're an adolescent and you don't understand, and when you see the world through the eyes of a child, you don't recognize the unbelievable truth that most people are unhealed and thus continue. Create a continuation of that same paradigm. And when you're an adult and you look back at it, one of the things that happens when you're like, man, I'm glad I learned that from my dad, this idea of if you see a problem, go create a solution is that's your superpower. And that's what I think about in terms of effective blaming, because it's like, we'll sit here and seek approval for people until the cows come home. And it's not coming. And that's one of the things that I think is so fascinating about the journey is self worth is about self worth is about you. And I resonate a lot with what you said, because I went down the path of EMDR, CBT NLP, ABC. Like I did all the things and well over six figures invested in myself. And it was always looking for the solution and talking about here we are. Like. Fighting this battle against God, spirit, universe to pass this test. And then I realized one day self worth is really about how you feel when you look in the mirror. And so I'm really curious for you. How do you look at self worth today, and how does that impact your life in regard to things like anxiety and fear?

Daniel: Man one, those insights you just shared are very deep and profound and true and liberating. And I know, even though all those letters you did maybe didn't, we're not always as efficient as you'd like. You've done so much deep work that you have deep wisdom that helps others, but also yourself.

I know how much healing you've done and how much better you're doing. And it's from that courage of doing that deeper work, there's a lot of answers. So the first thing is I'm so grateful to my dad for a couple of reasons. Not just that he taught me results matter because. I didn't get that love and approval. What it did is it unconsciously told me that I wasn't good enough for love and didn't deserve better love. So then when I got into this unhealthy relationship with this woman, that unworthiness of better convinced me to stay, and so I stayed and I stayed so long that I ended up with PTSD and anxiety. And that pain was so excruciating that I couldn't escape it. See, we have issues, but if we can outrun it or find a comfort zone, we will, I don't, I've grown. I'm in the a top one percentile of people who have grown, I don't want to grow. It's pain that gets us to grow. And so I had these patterns and behaviors that were unhealthy, but man, I was smart. I could push through them or manage them. But when Because of what my dad did, it left me with this, I'm not good enough. That then got me stuck in this relationship with so much pain. And there was nowhere to hide, Michael, there was nowhere to hide. And with all that pain and nowhere to hide, that's what gave me the incredible opportunity to start this program. If I could have hidden and avoided or numbed it, I would have, but I couldn't, it forced me. I burned the ships, man. I had to either figure this out for me and the planet, or die trying, and in terms of self esteem. Part of anxiety anxiety and self esteem are related partly. I'll explain what anxiety is. And I'll also explain when you have low self esteem. Which a hundred percent comes from you. I remember when I figured that out, I was used to blame my dad for my low self esteem. And then somebody pointed out, they're like, Daniel, it's got the word self right in there. It's your esteem for yourself, you can't blame that on your dad, you can say this happened in this bit, but how I can, no matter what my dad did, I can look in the mirror and I can love me and I can be proud of me, and I was like, Oh, wow. It's got the word self right in there. It doesn't say dad, esteem itself, esteem. That should be a t shirt by the way. But anyway, when you have low self esteem and you think you're not good enough, it creates self esteem. You seek validation to feel good enough, but then it creates the fear of rejection. So as I'll explain to you what anxiety is basically anxiety makes any fear worse. So the way they link together is if you feel not good enough unconsciously It then creates the fear of rejection that's caring what people think will things work out will I make enough money? There's a lot there with validation and fear Needing to feel good enough. If you think you're in a situation where you won't be good enough, giving a talk, asking somebody out, opening up, and you think I'll feel rejected and not good enough, that'll create fear. Then the anxiety, which I'll explain to your audience, that will make that fear, which should be about a 4 out of 10, it'll spike it up to about an 8 or a 10. So they're linked. Fear of rejection creates fear, and then anxiety goes from fear to basically terror.

Michael: And here's what's really interesting is if you go look back at some of the most anxiety provoking experiences of your life. Now, I think you could remove life and death out of this equation because that's a reasonable reason to a reasonable reason to have fear. What you find is that most anxiety is a conflation of your own thoughts. And it is this crate. And this is my experience having five panic attacks a day at one point in my twenties worried about the world constantly in deep fear, constantly, always in fight or flight, always in this hypervigilant state, what I came to realize in a big part of this is definitely through doing the work and showing up and learning and healing and growing. Was that most of the shit in my head that I was thinking never happened, but what's really fascinating is through childhood, I had learned to always be hypervigilant and looking at the worst case scenario, along with understanding that at any given time, my life could transform into chaos. Which was so true which was so incredibly true based on my childhood experiences and for the vast majority of that being in chaos. I know this is also true for many people listening and that idea that fear would then turn into terror on a long enough timeline makes sense depending on what it is that we're sitting in front of the hard part is and this is, in my opinion, the hardest part for me was sitting the fear to the side and learning how to control my emotions. And you said something that I think is really powerful. Self esteem is the esteem of one's self. And the confidence that I believe that it takes in order to control your emotions begins with you being able to define them. If you were to just, In a very blanketed collegiate kind of manner, define anxiety. Like how would you define it? Cause I really want to make sure, I think Daniel, one of the things that happens to people is because they do not understand what things mean, they make assumptions, thus they end up becoming that thing air quotes. If you're not watching on YouTube. This is the same reason why we live in a society where everyone's a narcissist. And it's you don't even know what narcissists means. And so I'd love for you to really just break down and define anxiety and what that actually means.

Daniel: It's an excellent point. And it points to one of the things our company is trying to go. Is trying to reverse in this world. One, my issue with the therapists, the psychologists, the teachers, they're the experts, they're well intentioned, they're doing the best they can, but I'm telling you as somebody that's solved fear and anxiety and does it for others at a very high level results matter. So I'm going to speak confidently that I know what I'm talking about. The they are well intentioned people but they have an incomplete model of understanding of what's going on and they are leaving people heavily Confused you can hear it in people's life every day when people reach out to me for help. I'll say tell me they'll say Do I have anxiety? Am I anxious? Is this making me anxious? Is this from my childhood? Is this the Think people who have been working on this for 10 years still have no effing idea what's going on. So if you're confused, it's not because you're not smart. It's that the experts are going around giving you half truths and third truths and saying this and saying that not and handing you band aids and it's leaving you confused. And I know that because when we tell people we have a program, that's not only 90 percent effective at solving it, it's simple, they can't process it, they're like, it can't be simple. I'm like, no, because you've been so confused. Simple seems too good to be true. Now it's not, but I get it. So people are so confused. Hey, the experts make more money that way. If nobody figures out what's going on and you're always confused and you're always coming to the therapist. Now, I don't think the therapists have negative intent. I'm just saying they are incentivized to have confused people that are always searching for the answer, I'm an engineer, man results. I don't want confused people. I want people that are free of this. So to do that, our system is so effing simple, and the reason it's simple and to answer your question is we got a simple definition of anxiety and then we were able to reverse engineer it. So you'll hear people sometimes say isn't everybody anxious and isn't anxiety, the net, the body's natural alarms, and it's no, what is natural and healthy is stress. If you are challenged, if there is some unknowns. If there is some risk, your body will naturally and healthily feel stress. It's called the stress response. Stress is usually approximately 3 out of 10 to 4 out of 10, and it usually lasts the duration of the thing. For instance, you're running late to catch an airplane. You might feel some stress, will I catch it? I don't know. It kind of matters, I want to go to Cabo. You'll feel some stress. At about three to four out of 10, then once you are on the plane, you should calm down. So it's three out of 10, four out of 10, and it lasts the duration of the episode that's stress. But of course, as we know, a lot of the world isn't feeling three 10, they're feeling sevens and eights and nines and tens and panic attacks. And they're not just feeling it for five minutes. They'll get an email from Brenda on a Wednesday and still be anxious on a Friday, that is not normal, that is not healthy, that is a problem. And that Is the anxiety. It's those peak numbers that don't quote unquote make sense. So when we work with people, the way we're helping people is that they feel safe and solid from within our program isn't about anxiety or fear. That's the symptom. We help people feel safe from the inside out when you feel safe and from the inside out, you can experience some stress. Some challenge, some worry, but it doesn't go about above a four out of ten because you feel safe and solid. And here's another way to look at it. And this is why people get confused. People will say to me. Daniel, I have health anxiety or work is making me anxious. And what they're saying is it feels like the outside thing is making me feel this way. But of course, logically they know Why is a business meeting making me feel terrified? That doesn't make sense. And then people blame themselves. I'm broken. There's something wrong with me. Here's what's going on. Basically, you feel safe, unsafe from the inside out. When you feel unsafe, when the outside world pushes on you and you feel a pressure, instead of just feeling the pressure of life, you feel the spike. Everything is worse because you don't have a stable, solid foundation. It's like with teeth. If you need a root canal, you have an infected tooth. So if you bite into, let's say, a carrot, healthy teeth should be able to just feel the pressure of the carrot, but if you have an infected tooth You don't just feel pressure you feel pain, but nobody goes. Oh my god. I suffer from carrot pain disorder I have carrot pain, we realize no The pain is pressure, but that pain is the fragility the unhealth from within. So I want your audience to know that so you don't blame yourself You're not freaking out because of what people think of you or because of social media or because of or worry about health that adds some stress and some pressure. Then it hits your unsafe system and it goes from a three out of 10 and it spikes. And that's just mechanics, but you're not broken, you're not going crazy. You're not weak, it's just your system feels unsafe. So everything from the outside feels three to four times worse. Now it's a problem that we help you solve quickly, but It's not the outside world doing it. The outside world is activating the unsafety from within, and that's what you're feeling.

Michael: Does that make sense? It does make sense. And I think that when I look at, understanding what had caused massive anxiety in my past. It was an inside out problem because often it was rumination, right? It's these thoughts that start to circulate that then become like the narrative of the only thing I'm thinking about constantly Oh, does that person like me? Did I do a good job on that? Dude, I remember like when I would hear car doors close, I would immediately go to an eight out of 10 because as a child, like that meant my stepdad was home and that meant danger, and then you start to become an adult and you're like, wait a second, something here's not right, or you get called into the, I remember one time when I worked at the fortune 10 company, I don't think I've ever said this on the show. I worked at this fortune 10 company, very young, very successful, made a lot of money at a very young age. And I get called into the SVP's office, senior vice president's office of sales, and he wants to sit down with me and I am freaking out. The worst thing that you could have done to me 15, 20 years ago would be to message me or email me or text me and be like, Hey, I need to meet you at four o'clock and it's eight AM because for the next seven hours, I am in complete freak out mode, completely dysregulated, no ability to actually make clear, concise, cognizant thoughts. And lo and behold, I walk in this dude's office and he's Hey, we're going to give you a promotion, you're doing such a great job. And that to me is so much of what the problem is we get in this place of we, we let this fear and anxiety overtake us to the point where we don't actually feel safe within our own bodies. And so much of that is obviously because of nature versus nurture. It could be biochemical. There's a lot of different things that play a factor into this, but you said something really interesting that I want to touch on because with the carrot analogy. And the idea that if you had a need to root canal, you have this infected tooth, you bite into the carrot. No one's Hey, you have this carrot problem. You go, Oh, you actually have this problem with your tooth, this root problem and anxiety, fear, those things are in. And I want your feedback here. Obviously those are symptoms, it's not the root, you're not an anxious person. No more than you very likely are a sociopath or neurotic or any of the many things that now in the overly mental health focused world that we live in, it's Jesus Christ, everything's a fucking helmet. And I'm just wondering how much of this conversation. Where do you get to the root? And what are the symptoms? Like, how does somebody differentiate? I have a moment of anxiety or fear versus I am anxiety or fear.

Daniel: It's again, it's a great question, and it is the languaging, the experts crank out this language that people glom onto because they trust the experts, and it feels true, I have anxiety. Now the experts don't tell you why you have just the word have, how do you have it? Why nobody, you walk into an ER, the doctor doesn't walk up and go, Ooh, you have a bleeding problem. That's not helpful. You're bleeding and we'll stop the bleeding, the experts like to take something, give it a name and a diagnosis and they get to look smart. And then people go, Ooh, I've got this thing. thing. I remember I paid a therapist basically 7,000 to diagnose me. And I was like, Oh, thank you therapist. What? Seven grand to just get a name on my symptoms. If you took your car to a mechanic and spent 5, You have engine power disorder. Oh, you wouldn't be like, thank you so much. You'd be like, no, I already knew I had a problem. I need you to fix it. But the experts, because they can't solve it, they gotta make their money some way. So they give it a name. It's a symptom. And then they charge you a lot of money just to understand it, have insights into it, maybe manage it, but never effing solve it. Why? Because they don't know how if they did, they'd be doing it, but anxiety is on the rise. So cool. Nobody has anxiety. It is 100 percent and you're not an anxious person. Just if you bite into a carrot and feel pain, you don't say I'm a painful person. No, my tooth is unhealthy. I feel pain, that's very different than you are a painful person. So you do not have anxiety, you are not an anxious person. The anxiety that people are feeling this extra spike is a symptom, okay. It's a symptom and you are not your symptom, okay. If I go to Chipotle and I eat too much and I'm farty, I don't walk up to you and say, I'm a farter, I'm a farty person, I am broken, I just got a new app that helps me with my fartness. No, it's a symptom, okay. So no, that's another D shirt. I am not a farter. No, you fart, it's a symptom. So what is it a symptom of? Okay, what is a symptom of? Here, we're going to do an intermechanics lesson, and this is why we're able to solve anxiety. The reason we're able to solve anxiety. Again, when I say solve it, I'm not making this up, man. I've been free and clear of this for 10 years, our clients are free and clear. You can go to my website, you can see the testimonials. Also, you know, the reason we were able to solve it was our whole approach was engineered to solve it. Therapists, psychologists, and coaches, they're just, they're okay managing, they're fine with that, and they make money endlessly managing it. We wanted to solve it, that was our mission and focus, so we looked at this very differently. And if you want to solve something quickly and efficiently, What's what they're doing isn't working. Here's what doesn't solve things quickly spiritual and psychological now spirituality and psychology has value. I'm a spiritual person, I enjoy psychology, but usually it's an abstract way of understanding what's going on, oh, that's your ego. You have an attachment scarcity mindset. Those are things Theories describing the symptoms and there's value in that it helps you understand, but it won't ever solve anything. If you take your car to a mechanic and he says, Oh, your car is feeling disempowered. Oh, okay, but like you can't solve it. So to solve something quickly and efficiently, you don't want an approach that's spiritual or psychological, you want mechanical. So what does that mean? Let's say you're at the restaurant, okay. To your listener, and all of a sudden you start choking. Okay, and two people walk up. One person walks up and goes, Hey, I see you're struggling. I think that maybe when you were younger, things were really scary. And maybe you eat your food really quickly, and also I feel like you're, you have a real scarcity mindset around air. Like you're really focused on your lack of air instead of the abundance of air of the universe that's out there. And honestly, your ego is attached to breathing and living. And that attachment is holding you back. So if you could just let go of the need for air and living, just let go or somebody walks up and goes, here's the deal.

You have a bit of avocado. It was blocked mechanically blocked in your airway air mechanically can't get in and that's what you're feeling and you're about to die I'm going to add mechanical pressure to your stomach Which will put pressure behind the blockage and hopefully pop it out And then air will get mechanically into your lungs and you will live in that moment If you want to solve something quickly and simply and easily do you want psychology spirituality? Or an approach that's mechanical.

Michael: That first off, I'm laughing because it is all almost asinine when you take into consideration some of the approaches that people use in this journey. And I'll be honest, I've tried every dude, I've tried everything from Reiki to ayahuasca to sound bowl meditation, everything in between, name it, I've tried it. Nothing has brought more benefit into my life than tactical, practical and mechanical changes. Nothing.

Daniel: Testify, Michael. Testify. Preach. Preach.

Michael: But this is, Daniel, this is the same thing that I bring to the table with people I coach. I don't, I love everyone who I work with. I love my Monday night coaching groups. I love my one on one groups, I love the people that I get to help create this massive change in their life. You will never hear me sit across from someone and not give them something tactical. You just won't because the psychological approach just keeps you in your head, and I wish more people would understand this. And the hard part about it is because we've been so driven towards the idea that therapy is the first approach. I have said this, I am on record saying this, hundreds of times. If I could go back in time, I would have hired a coach before I hired a therapist because I needed to make actual literal tactical, practical, mechanical changes in my day to day life. If I would have known what you know and what you do, and I would have added that at the very beginning as well because it was like, I remember. I went to a psychiatrist because I was like, I'm so anxious and depressed and look, my life was fucking nightmare, of course I was anxious and depressed. How could it not be? And he's we're going to try this medicine and we're going to just see how it goes. And I was at the point, Daniel, cause I felt like I'd tried everything. Little did I know I had not actually tried everything. I was just getting started. And I took the medicine for about a week. And I was just like, Oh, no, this is not for me, this is an escape. This is for people who don't want to deal with their problem, and look again, let's be very clear, I'm not saying that's not a use case for many people because it is, but what I am saying is for me, it was not that it wasn't until I got into the actual changes of my life, addressing the root causes of so much of this, that things really begin to change. One of the things that you talk about is that the approach is engineered to solve problems. Talk me through the approach a little bit. What is it that is happening, not only with what you do, but in general, while people are resolving anxiety and fear. What is the approach? What does that engineered ideation that was once a hypothesis that you've heard into reality that you've studied and tested again what does that not the how, because obviously that's very in depth, but the what, like what is actually taking place?

Daniel: I'll do my best to answer because I want to give the information like you said, tactical and practical. Now, we use tactical and practical in so many other areas of our life, and it's the fact that we have been so brainwashing condition to spend this trillion dollars a year to people who don't give us tactical and practical. My issue isn't with these people. They're doing the best they can. My issue is we're It's a blind spot. I spent 8,000 on a retreat, came out of it, felt good for a week. And I was like, wow, that was incredible. No, it really wasn't. And this is what I'm trying to wake people up to start demanding more effective results based things. Don't, you and I now know, and I don't want to get into it too much, but I talk a big game and results is what matters. And without getting into too much, you and I had a brief session where I gave you a little sample of what I do. Can you at least without getting into it too much, just say what Daniel's saying is simple and it is tactical and it is practical. Can you at least just so they don't think I'm full of crap.

Michael: Yeah you wouldn't be on the show if you were full of crap. I think that one of the really important things is that I've always been an experimenter. I've always been willing to try things. Highfalutin, for a lack of a better term, highfalutin, very heady concepts and tools around just the mental approach do not work for me. They never have, they never will. And what you and I got to sit down and do was something that I could actually look at from a measurable perspective. And. We actually started it with a point of measurement around a topic, which I'm going to keep private because this was a private session. I came into this thing and I told you at the beginning, I was like, this feels like an eight out of 10, a nine out of 10 in terms of my own anxiety about a very specific topic, something that I've been working through. And on the backside of it, I walked away being like, Oh no, this definitely feels like a three. And that is what. the effective results based things do for people, because if we just sat there, this is why I never had progress in therapy, I had progress in the sense of understanding and like my therapy. Oh my God, the dude is amazing. He changed my life forever, let's be very clear. But he, but the lifestyle didn't change. The anxiety didn't change, the fear didn't change, the thing that changed was I went from not understanding to understanding and what I experienced with you. Felt very more of this method, methodical and again, this mechanical approach to solving a problem that I had in front of me.

Daniel: Thank you so much for saying that one. I want to appreciate you for trusting me. And I also want your listeners. No, you're not one of these people coming on and you're saying, I know everything. I'm fine. You were honest. You're open. You're incredible, but you're still human. And we'll. You said just, it gave me, man, I got to say this. It gave me like a teacher boner because it's what I want. It was practical. You felt we measured it and it went from an eight out of 10 to a three out of 10 in a matter of minutes, and you felt it and it's measurable. And again, measurable results everywhere else in the world that matters, man, you take your car to a mechanic, you hire a gardener, a painter, an accountant, measurable results, and then we get to this industry and we just spend money. The therapist, they don't measure things. They're not looking at data. Is this improving? The reason our program is so effective is because results mattered. And as we built our system, we were looking at people's data. Where can we make the program better? Where can we get better results? That's why we have a 90 percent success rate because we're tracking results. And there's a Quote in science, which is if you're not getting, if you don't have measurable results, you're probably not getting results. That's why the therapists and psychologists don't measure results because they wouldn't get them and they wouldn't get paid. We only get paid for results, which means we get them and it's because it's mechanical. So now, and the beauty of that is it makes it simple. People are tired of spending money, not getting results, feeling more confused and more trapped and more broken. This may not sound sexy mechanics in results, but man, when you're in pain. Something simple, that's measurable, and that just effing works, that leads you to liberation. And you asked me, to explain, a bit more, when I tell people that anxiety is simple and mechanical, they like the idea of it. They're like, okay, I like it, but it doesn't feel simple. When you've had this for a really long time, and one person says this, and one person that, you don't know, is it you, or the blah, blah, blah, it feels very complicated, to give people hope. That this is mechanical and simple. I wanna do a little interactive role play so that you can actually feel this in your body, you can have an experience. I can, we can talk concepts all day, but people wanna feel something. I'm gonna do a little interactive role play with you, Michael, non sexual. Not that you're not an attractive man, it's just not appropriate. And as I talk to you, I'm talking to your audience at the same time, so they can experience this. Is that okay?

Michael: Yeah, let's do it.

Daniel: Okay. So first intermechanics lesson number one, we already covered basically what you're experiencing, whether it's the anxious feeling that the feeling of fear, when you get on stage, when you open up that those spikes, those five, six, seven, eight, nines, also the spinning mind of worrying worrying. All of that is a symptom. It is a mechanical symptom that deep down you do not feel safe. Safe from within, we already covered that. So to your listener, just look at your symptoms and just ask, and can you see the wisdom that those are symptoms of just not feeling safe from within? Most people can. I know you can't Michael, cause you've done this deeper work. So you don't have anxiety. That thing outside isn't making you this, your mind isn't going crazy. You feel unsafe and no human wants to feel that. And all these things are a symptom of that. So then the question becomes why the heck do we feel unsafe? So this is the mechanical explanation. I want to show you that this is mechanical, the cause and the solution is simple. Now, again, I'm going to vastly oversimplify our program. I'm going to oversimplify all of humanity just to show you a proof of concept that this is simple, okay. In this role play we're going to be long term friends, okay. When I say the I'm talking to you, Michael, in your audience, okay. And so let's say That for reasons which you don't understand, all of a sudden, I start treating you crappy, I'm not nice to you, I'm mean to you, I'm critical of you. When you need me, I'm not there for you. I put everybody else way ahead of you and I put you dead last. When you tell me you're scared, I tell you I don't care. I am not there for you, and you're on your own. If I treat you that way for a while, just very simply, does that leave you feeling unsafe and anxious, or safe and calm?

Michael: Definitely unsafe and anxious, for sure.

Daniel: In a word, definitely, it's because it's just boom. It's simple, mechanical. It's almost like a reflex. You don't have to wonder and go, oh, let me look at my journal. If somebody treats you that way, it breaks trust, it leaves you feeling unsafe and anxious. Okay, so now on the count of three, I want you to tell me, on the count of three, I want you to say, the way you're treating me leaves me feeling unsafe. Okay, on the count of three say the way you're treating me leaves me feeling unsafe. One, two, three.

Michael: The way you're treating me makes me feel unsafe.

Daniel: What is wrong with you and why are you telling me this? I don't care. Also, seriously dude, you're fine. The world is good. Fine. There's no tigers. Why are you freaking out? You're freaking out. You're going crazy. And also these feelings, this drama, it's bothering me. I'm trying to live a happy life and you are a bother. So take whatever this is, get it away from me, I do not care. And you are on your own. Does that leave you feeling unsafe and anxious or safe and calm?

Michael: If you're a psycho, you're probably feeling safe and calm. And I'm gonna assume that I, and most of the people listening are not that. So it probably sends you, deeply in the fear of safety.

Daniel: Yes, of course, because it's mechanics. If that happens, you are going to feel that it's simple. It's mechanic inner mechanics. That's going to happen. Now, here's the cool thing about mechanics. If you know the proper mechanics of a system, you can move it in one direction, but with the same mechanical knowledge, you can move it in another direction. If you know the mechanics of how to lose weight, which is to burn more calories than you eat with the same mechanical knowledge, you can gain weight by just eating more calories than you burn. I can do things that will make you feel mechanically unsafe, but with the same knowledge, I can help you feel mechanically safe. So on the count of three, say to me, the way you're treating me leaves me feeling unsafe. On the count of three, the way you're treating me leaves me feeling unsafe. One, two, three.

Michael: The way you're treating me makes me feel unsafe.

Daniel: Oh my god, I am so sorry. It makes so much sense you feel like this, given how I treated you. Oh god, there's nothing wrong with you, there's something wrong with me. I'm glad you told me because this gives me an opportunity to be a better friend to you and rebuild that trust. I feel bad. It'll take time to rebuild the trust, but in the meantime, I just want to tell you, it took courage to tell me and I'm glad you told me, and I'm really sorry it came to this. Does that leave you feeling unsafe and anxious or safe and calm?

Michael: Yeah, definitely safe. Safe, calm, and I'd add heard, right? Which I think is a really big part of that equation.

Daniel: Yes, it is. And part of the reason you feel safe is because you feel heard. But again, the point is, if I treat you this way, man, mechanically, can you feel how just like automatic and just like kaboom, you feel it? It's a different experience. Yes, it's mechanical. What's going on in that feeling of unsafety is mechanical and making a person feel safe. We know how to do it mechanically. Now in this role play, we're in a friend relationship. And if I treat you poorly, it will leave you feeling mechanically unsafe. If I treat you better, you will feel mechanically safe. But let's be honest, we're also in a relationship with ourselves. And I'm asking you, Michael, in your audience, can you see that sometimes you're not a very loving, good friend to yourself?

Michael: Yeah, such a great point. And that was, and has been one of the things in the healing journey that I think is most important. Can you get to the place? That's what I always was the number one thing I teach people. Healing is getting to the place where you can look in the mirror and be okay with the reflection.

Daniel: Absolutely. And when you can do that, you'll start to feel safer, but most people see, most people know that they don't treat themselves. Like most people get that what we saw in our data was that in every single person that was dealing with any type of fear, anxiety above a four out of 10, we saw the 10 to 30 times a day. There were small in sick, seemingly insignificant things they were doing every day. It was accumulating over time, leaving them feeling unhappy. Safe. Here's one. Just so you can feel it for yourself. A common one that people aren't so good at. Is taking compliments. I love compliments. If you appreciate me, man, I receive it. I love it because now I feel worthy of being seen, but a lot of people deflect compliments. Have you seen that?

Michael: Yeah, all the time. I call people out on it immediately, all the time. My friends, my clients, random people on the street, I will always call you out. If you try to throw my compliment away.

Daniel: Beautiful. And some people, and when, and I do the same thing, I lovingly say, Hey, I tried to love you. And and they say, I know I'm not good at receiving compliments. That's not the issue. What people don't know is there's a mechanical link between those things. And over time and accumulation will leave you feeling unsafe, but I want you to feel it again. Let's say we're friends, okay. And somebody else. Turns to you, meaning you, Michael, in the audience and turns to you and says, Hey man, that was incredible. What you did, I want to appreciate you. And then I jump in and I say, no, they don't deserve appreciation, they should do it anyway, get that love and appreciation. Get it away from them, they don't deserve it, fet it away from them. If I did that, would that leave you feeling unsafe or safe?

Michael: Definitely unsafe.

Daniel: Yes. So what we saw was mechanically from the outside world and our inside world over time, there's been an accumulation of these little things that have been building that leave a person feeling mechanically unsafe. The bad news is virtually nobody is safe. They're not seeing this, they're just seeing the symptoms and trying to put band aids on the symptoms. Meanwhile, it's these little things that are completely solvable that are mechanically leaving us feeling unsafe. That's the bad news, and nobody's, very few people are seeing this. But, if we want to turn this around quickly, in a way that is simple and mechanical, likely to get results, why is it good news to find out that all this fear and unsafety may actually be a mechanical issue? Why is that good news?

Michael: Because you have something that you can take action against.

Daniel: Yeah, you can take action again, and the action leads to a mechanical result. That's the beauty, it's not theory. If you break your bone, sometimes people will say to me, they'll say, Daniel, how can one program help for everybody? Isn't everybody different in some ways? But our mechanics are the same. If a thousand people have a broken bone, and a doctor walks up and says, Because we're going to put a cast on your leg. They don't say, no, I'm different. My childhood was messed up. Get that cat. No, because it's mechanical. It works for everybody. If you're choking the Heimlich maneuver works. If you're bleeding, putting stitches mechanically works. So mechanical things aren't different for everybody. If you don't drink enough water, you're going to have problems. If you then drink water, you're going to feel better. So because there are approaches mechanical, it works for pretty much everybody. And here's the best part. Here's the best part. You ready for the best part? Ready for the best part, Michael.

Michael: Let's do it.

Daniel: Because we're going to the root cause. Do you see how excited I get? Do you see how passionate I get? Cause when every day I see people who almost had no life and they have every, just this morning, I talked to a client who he wouldn't have taken his own life, but he was thinking about it because he was so anxious. He couldn't be there for his kids. And he felt such guilt. He said, maybe I should just, Go away because I'm not a good husband and father. And I said, and he said, but I met somebody at a party who had gone through your program said you only charge at the end that got me intrigued. Can you help me? And I said, I promise we can help you. So he went through our program and I got a message from him three days ago. And he said, First of all, I want to live again. I want to live more than I've ever wanted to live to. I feel safe for the first time in my life and three I'm outside playing with my kids. So not only did you give me my life back, my kids have their dad back. Come on. But, and here's why this is possible because simple mechanical, but because we're not going at the symptom, we're going to the root cause. And when we go to the root cause, the result isn't just that your fear and anxiety go away. What you are left with is feeling safe. I feel safe from the inside out. Life pushes on me, it doesn't affect, I feel it doesn't affect me. My clients who used to be affected by life, the stress of work with life with health, they feel it, but they wake up every morning feeling safe from within. So they're resilient. They're strong, they're happier. So to you, Michael, and your audience, how much better would you and just the world be if you could wake up every morning and just Feel safe from the inside out.

Michael: How would things be different? Yeah, that's where the game changer is. And that's the thing that for me has been one of the most practical elements of my entire healing journey is to go from that place of hyper vigilance, constantly fear, anxiety terror which is really a great word to use about it to calm and peace, and that's just not through the methodology of the Therapy or yoga or journaling or coaching or anything. It's, I had told you before you and I had done our session that I had done something very similar years ago and it changed my life forever. And I feel like even at a deeper level, once you bring more awareness to this kind of work and you do it, that safety will grow and grow. And what will happen is that thing, like obviously we're going to You and I are talking about the what, the how of this is in depth, right? A guy doesn't go from suicidal, wanting to walk away because he doesn't feel like he's a good father and husband, to messages like that without a tremendous amount of change. Taking place and I want to honor the space for people to go on this discovery themselves because it really is an individualized discovery. That's why we're not going deep into the how today because it's going to be different for everybody, even though it is mechanical, right? And you have these step systems and processes it's still individualized. And so Daniel, before I ask you the last question, where can everyone. Take advantage of this, connect with you, and go through this process with you.

Daniel: Thank you for appreciating that, yeah, people don't just go from where that gentleman did to that in a short period of time. I just want to add one thing so it's really clear. Yes, the reason those results are possible is because of the depth that we go. We're going to the root cause. But when you and I spoke, we also saw that same root cause, but when I asked you, how long did it take you to get real results in this way, I think you said it was like years, which still is way better than most people because it's a system and we've optimized it, it's weeks. We're taking what works and you can testify to what works and we're taking years of exploration and trial and error and pain and into six weeks. And that's not the depth. You already knew the depth. It's the system and the fact that there's a complete set of tools, that are built to get the job done and address the root cause a complete set of tools. Most of your clients go and get one tool for one therapist, another tool from another therapist, another tool from another teacher. That's not setting you up for success. You need a complete toolkit that it's engineered not to get the job done. Plus simple steps and instructions, this is the most important part. You are not confused, you don't have to wonder. Every day, you know what to do and when it's 30 minutes, you do five minute exercises four times a day. And if you, it's built like an inner gym and if you work the steps, you get the results. It's not the depth, it's the system that we're so sexy about. And that's how we're helping people. Now that said, we made the system so it would work for anybody. That's how we get a 90 percent success rate, but here's the thing. We don't help everybody and we don't work with everybody. Why? Because logically, everybody wants to be free of fear and anxiety. Nobody wants it. And if you ask people, Hey, would you like to be free of fear and anxiety? Of course I'll say yes, but I'm sure you've seen this. And I talk to people who find out about the work that we do, but won't work with us. Why? They're either not ready to let it go. They maybe feel undeserving of being happy, they maybe have been so confused and hurt by trying things in the past that they just don't want to try one more thing again and feel more broken or they may feel scared, man, people identify with their things. And then they're like who would I be without this? And so the people that we work with are not people that want to be free. We work with courageous, motivated people that are tired of living like this and are motivated to try something. You can be skeptical. But since you, if it doesn't work, you don't pay it's zero risk to try it. So you're motivated enough to say this guy's making sense. I'd like something mechanical and they are motivated to try something new. If that's you, I like things simple. My name's Daniel Packard. Go to danielpackard.com, there, you can see a testimonials video of the people that we've helped that now feel safe and happy. And trust me, they did not start that way. And that's the results you can learn about the program. You can get the price of the program. It's very affordable. That was one of our missions, but also, if you really can't afford it, let us know. We have scholarships because we don't want money to keep people from getting better. Also, there's a frequently asked question section about the program. There's a little bit about me and a incredible dance video where you can see me dance, where you will. It'll confuse you. Somebody that looks like me should not move like I do, but go see it. If you like all that and you're motivated to get help, then there's a link to book a free call with me. It's 15 minutes. You tell me what's going on with you how fear and anxiety is showing up in your life And then i'll show you how we can help you and if we can help you and if you want our help We're going to help you if you don't want our help. That's okay, too We don't we're not here to pressure people. We want motivated people So if you want testimonials learn about program get the price watch the dance video learn more about the program and more importantly if you're motivated book that free call with me all of that at danielpackard.com

Michael: Perfect. And of course, guys go to thinkunbrokenpodcast.com. We'll put that and more in the show notes. My last question for you, my friend, what does it mean to you to be unbroken?

Daniel: What does it mean to feel I'm broken? I'm Ooh, that's a juicy question. Ooh, that's got some meat on it. I had a couple answers, but I'll give it, you know what it is. And this is the word that I want for that I feel. And I want for the world. It's freedom. It's free of this stuff. When you are solid, and when I feel safe, I'm free, man, I am free, not just to be rid of the pain. That's just a starting point. I'm free to be confident, open hearted, I'm free to be authentic, I'm free to be in purpose when we work with our clients, that's what we want. We're not lowering anxiety, come on amateur stuff. That's just a starting point. People want real freedom to go out into the world and be their best selves and show up for their families and their businesses and their communities. Freedom is what we want. So to me, from my experience, I felt broken and trapped. Those two went together and because I'm high on my own supply and I use my own tools, I feel very healed, solid and free at last free Atlantis. Thank God almighty, I'm free at last freedom, man. That's what it means to me.

Michael: Love it. Couldn't agree more. Thank you so much for being here, Daniel. Unbroken Nation, thank you for listening, guys. Please remember when you share this, you're helping others break free from trauma, turn into their own hero and ultimately to be unbroken.

And Until Next Time,

My Friends,

Be Unbroken.

I'll See Ya.