Reclaim Your Life and Thrive After Trauma

Unlocking the Secrets to Success: An Interview with John Lee Dumas

Michael: And that's beautiful. I have so many of those moments and experiences of my life or like that one piece, that was the difference and you listen that you carry that with you, but here's what I think, people get stuck because they get that one piece quite often and then they hear a story like yours and they go. Oh, yeah. I got this piece. I'm going to go and build this, incredible empire, and the truth is like, when you were value-driven, whether that's part of your ethos or your who you are as a human being, there is patience and a vast amount of it required. But often you have to give something up to get you want you were having a conversation with Jordan Harbinger one time and you were talking about the courage to quit, and that hit me so hard, dude, because the greatest change in my life, came from quitting shit that did not bring me value. Talk about the courage to quit, John.

John Lee: Do you know how many people's lives suck right now? And I mean are just like shitty lives right now, because they're afraid to quit. Like it's the majority of the population and I see it every single day. I see that person that's in law school on their first or second semester and they hate it and they're miserable, but guess what? They paid 20,000 or 40,000 dollars to be there and everybody thinks that they're in law schools, what's so impressive. So they end up spending the next 40 years of their life, being a miserable lawyer or the person that just read a book one day or so be that. You know, so watch Grey's Anatomy, they're like, oh my God, being a nurse is amazing, you get to do this and you get to marry the doctor and you get to, and they become a nurse, and I've seen it happen to people close to me and my family by the way. And they go to school, get the degree, get the job, they're working 9 p.m. to 9:00 a.m. shifts overnight, and they're just miserable because they're just changing bedpans and they're just doing this and they've never thought that it was anything like that. And I'm just like, oh my God, like these people, they had this sunk cost fallacy, they think that just because they started going down the road that it's too much energy or there's too much cost to turning around going back to the beginning and trying again, you know, just to kind of give like a financial example, this happens all the time people. And in the stock market like they'll buy a stock at like 22, like, oh my God, if it goes to 30, like I'm going to sell and I'm going to make 50% gain, it's going amazing and then it goes to 40, they're like, oh my God, it's that 40. Then it goes to 50, they're like, oh my god, look what happened to them selling at 30, will now they're not going to sell because now they're seeing real dollar bills and then the stock starts going down the like it just goes back to 50, then I'll sell, but now it's down to 12 that just goes back to 40 I'll sell then it's back to third.

Well, if it just gets better and then I'll sudden they're on the red and this happens all the time, and so it happens in finance, happens in life, it happens in business, happens in everywhere, the sunk cost fallacy and it all stems back to people, not being willing to have the courage to quit, the courage to know that I'm going to make a decision and it may not be the best decision, that I could ever possibly make but it's going to be a decision that I make. I'm going to go forward not look over my back in hindsight, and this kind of does bring me back to my Army days. I'll tell really quick stories that you know, we were on a mission Under Fire and I was a platoon leader, so I had to make a decision. Now here I am this 23-year-old young buck, I'm going to be like General Patton and make like the greatest decision in the world right now. It's going to win the war, you know, but I got to come up with a greatest decision and he grabs me and throws me against like LT a good decision now is better than a great decision later because there might not be later for us and like I was like, holy crap like he's right bullets or literally flying. So that's obviously an extreme example, but it's true in life as well. If you just go through life and you make really good decisions at every opportunity and you're just action, action action action, take making good decisions, it's going to lead to something great. But if you're frozen in the moment, and you just are waiting for that great decision, you are never ever going to take the type of action that it takes to be a massive success.

So you need to understand the courage to quit, the courage to make a good decision and not worry that it's not a great decision, the courage to take action, those things are critical to your journey.

Michael: Yeah, a hundred percent. And also I think for clarity here, this is very much, a not preaching from a pulpit. Like I know John, you quit multiple things like law school, for example, even though you sunk cost into it because you looked at your life, and you said this isn't what I want. I quit a six-figure corporate job with a fortune 10 company because it wasn't what I wanted in the truth about life is this time right now, this moment you're not quitting, you're not gettin that shit back and if you don't act, here's what's going to happen, you're going to be on your deathbed and you're to have regrets and that is the singular worst thing I think that a human being can do in their life. But here's what I think is interesting John, I love to know your thoughts on this. People want that they want that life, they're like, I want to build this thing, I want to whether it's a business or a relationship or a family or career, whatever they're like, I want that thing and you said something that I wrote down one time that I think about literally almost every single day. He said people want the gold but they don't want the grind. What does that mean?

John Lee: Listen, if it was easy, every single person would be doing it, and then I want to be worth anything. The best things that I've done in my life, in my world have been grinding. Likewise, entrepreneurs on fire successful was because back in 2012, I identified the absolute thing that was missing in the business podcasting space. There's a good number of business podcast back then, but nobody, and I mean, nobody was doing anything more than a once-a-week podcast interview because it's a lot of work. You gotta find the guest, you gotta schedule time, you've got to interview them, you've got to edit it, you've gotta upload it to your podcast host, you've got to do the show notes page, you get to promote on social media, like, that's a lot of work and it is a lot of work. And I said, why is nobody doing a Daily Show, interviewing entrepreneurs because it's much work, everybody told me my coach, my mentor, Jamie Masters, my mastermind leader Cliff Ravenscraft, it's just too much work, John and I said; ‘We'll, wait a second. If the two top people in the podcast space are telling me, it's too much work, and I'll never happen, and I find a way to do it, think of that opportunity, think of that.’ And this goes back to a quote that I'm a big believer in “The higher the barrier, the lower the competition.” And a daily podcast is setting a very high barrier because it's so much work, finding 365 guess a year, 365 show notes page, 365 editing and episodes. I know you guys know the whole spiel by now. So much work, but guess what? Because it's such a high barrier. I had not only low competition. I had no competition. I was able to build a moat around my business. Why? Because nobody was able to create the systems, the processes and put in the grind in the work that it took to do a daily podcast, interviewing entrepreneurs, and that's why I want at such a high level.

So everybody wants entrepreneurs on fire. They want the 1 million plus listings per month, they want a hundred million total listings, they want the three thousand episodes in their back catalogue, they want the $200,000 we made last month on podcast sponsorships alone, they want the eight figures of revenue that we've generated over the past nine years in the business, they want the gold, but they're not willing to do the grinds, and those few people that are willing to do the grinds, get the gold.

Unleashing Personal Growth and Transformation with Ryan Zofay

Michael: When I went through the beginning of this journey, man, it was like crawling through glass, it was so hard because it was like all I ever felt like I was doing was breaking down, it's like every time I took a step forward, I'd be in therapy or in men's group, or I'd be at an AA meeting or anything like, and somebody would say something and I would be like, oh my God, like all these terrible thoughts would come, and then I started to realize this is just a domino effect, man, you knocked down one domino, the next one's gonna fall, the next one's gonna fall. And you'll look back and you ghost take a step back, you look at all those dominoes, and it's this incredible tapestry that's in front of you that all the things have happened as they're supposed to happen. And you can be the victim, and I don't want to take that away from you, you're allowed to have that. I even thought for the longest time, I was like, man, I deserve the world, somebody owes me, give me this and I played that role really well. And then I was like, wait a second, man, nobody actually owes you anything but you. Then you've gotta get honest with yourself. And so, because I know a little bit more about your story than I know that our audience does, what role did honesty play in your life?

Ryan: Yeah, and so you mentioned like human consumption, right? If I'm consuming good insights and positive thinking and loving and unconditionally powerful stuff, that's gonna be the output of my experience. And so, I say brutal honesty, it's like, to your point, you're like, I was telling you like I was being the victim, I wanted to be rescued and I was getting those needs met, right? Like I was getting in some version my parents to come rescue. But where I was at in life wasn't where I wanted to be and so like that, that was the first bit of honesty that I needed to look at is like, are you really happy with who you are? Are you truly happy with where you are in life? And the answer was no. I was not. I was absolutely miserable. And the turning point for me, I know we just talked about it, was when I was sued by the FTC because I couldn't believe that was the man I was, I couldn't believe. And be mindful, I got sober in 2001, so I have 11 years of sobriety at this point like I'm quote unquote working a 12-step program, and here I am at one of the lowest points of my life and this is what's happening to me. So, I needed to really have some reflection on like, who I was and what was I consuming, like what information was I feeding my brain, you know, who did I have around me? They say, you wanna see where you're going in life? Look, at the sum of five people around you, and that's where you're gonna be going. And at that time in my life, I didn't have positive people in my life. I didn't have people in my circle that wanted the best interest for me. And so, I needed to change my circle, I needed to change the consumption of information that I was bringing into my mind. And it's like planting seeds like if you plant corn, you're gonna grow corn. If you plant wheat, you're gonna grow wheat. If I plant sh*t, you're not gonna get sh*t so, what was happening for me as a child, dude, like my parents were feeding me sh*t and they didn't know any better. And then once I got old enough, and once these moments happened for me to see like, hey, I had a stop in time, there's this moment of clarity, there was this insight, which was potentially, you know, losing my life October 8th, 2001, that was a moment for me. I knew I needed to do something different, and so I made some decisions. And so, everybody is going to be introduced with a moment in their life that they can make a difference or they can make a different decision and get a different outcome. And so, that's what happened for me, but I needed to be honest with where I was at and who I was, which I didn't love.

Michael: I don't think anyone loves it. Today, I don't even love it. I look at my values, my number one value is honesty. And a lot of days, dude, I don't love it because a lot of days I have to go stand in front of that mirror I'd be like, did you show up? And I learned this from Brendon Burchard probably 12 years ago or something, this idea of did I live, did I love, did I matter? And I ask myself those questions every day when I look in that mirror, because I'm like, that's the crux of it like did I show up? Like was I of service? Did I do what I said I was going to do? You know, what I think that I really appreciate about these experiences and journey of honesty is if you're willing todo it everything's different because you can't hide from yourself. I mean, how many times are you gonna get caught up in the lie with the girlfriend? How many times are you gonna get caught up in the lies and the cheating? How many times are you gonna get caught up with the not paying the bills and going to collections and hanging out with the people you know you're not supposed to be with and drinking and getting high in all this stuff? And it's like, you know, I'm not saying that like, don't live your life and have fun and enjoy, but like, can you do it through truth? Can you do it through truth? And that to me was the hardest thing because I don't know about you, man. So actually, I'm really curious about this. My mother taught me how to be a liar, she was masterful. Like my mom might be the greatest liar to have ever lived like seriously, she got out of everything and she would get everything and I would just watch ‘cuz as children, of course, we're learning, we're in these developmental states, we're bringing in this data and this information. And so, I became this person who could lie myself into or out of any situation like you I could definitely sell ice to an Eskimo, that's how I became so successful at such a young age and then I realized all I'm doing is taking from people. And so how do you navigate? And here's the truth. I know that I still lie and immediately the thing that I do when I do it is I go, that wasn't true. I don't even know. I don't even know why I said it. Right? It's so dumb. I have no idea why I just said this thing. And there are people who I know are like, man, everybody lies all the time. I'm like, okay, cool. But can you admit it? And I think that's the thing, man. And to me that admitting that came in the form of, and I know we talked about this before we got started for me, that came in the form of Tony Robbins. He said one thing that literally changed my life. He said, life is happening for you, not to you. And I'm the same guy who 17 years ago, heard about Tony for the first time I was like, that dude's full of sh*t, that dude what is this fool talking about? He never been to the hood. He doesn't know my life. And then I realized like all he's doing is telling the truth. What's that like for you? Like really in your day-to-day honesty obviously switched for you, but what is it like for you as a human, as a man, as a spiritual being to live in your truth?

Ryan: You know, it's wild. And actually, Tony said this, he said, if you wanna know what someone's lying, they say they don't lie. And so, it's a human experience, right? Like everybody lie. Yeah. So, I mean, once I heard that I was like, ah, sh*t makes sense. And what's interesting is I'm a seventh-grade dropout, I still can grammatically destroy an email, I barely can write, you know, I have a hard time reading as it is. And so, when I was in seventh grade, my parents they got me this program, it's called Hooked on Phonics Works for Kids. And so, it was like this, it was for the kids that had learning disabilities. So, I adopted this belief that I have this learning disability and when my sister passed away, that was more evidence that like, something's wrong with me, right? My sister died; something was wrong with her. Well, clearly something's wrong with me and here's evidence because my parents decided to get me this, this learning disability program.

And so, when I started on this new journey after being sued by the FTC. I realized that I wanted to create change and impacting people's lives, and through this journey, what I started to realize is the more vulnerable and the more open and honest that I was with individuals, the more I was able to impact and to, and to create change in their lives. And so, that was my strategy. I was like, okay, like I may not be the best communicator. I may not be able to articulate my words properly and my vocabulary isn't what other people can have, but I was like, okay, what can differentiate me from everybody else? And I realized that being honest with who I am, how I'm feeling, what my experience was like was gonna give people practical application, was gonna actually show people, because that's what everybody wants, everybody wants to have the ability to relate to you. And that's what Tony did and that's what Tony taught me. And I've spent the last four years with Tony. I went to my first event August, 2018 after horrific breakup, I was engaged. And I went to his seminar for the first time and I've done about 30 seminars over the last four years with Tony. I was also a part of his inner circle, which I'm extremely grateful for being in proximity of that man. And I realized that the reason why he is so successful, and you said it is because he is so honest. He is truly telling you real life stories, real life examples. I have heard him say the same story every single event. And I always ask myself like the first like maybe seven or eight events, I'm like, why does he tell the same stories? But then I realized that he is just being completely honest and he's giving his life experience. And it's not about the story that he is telling, it's about the lessons in his story and the journey that he took with that lesson. And that's how people can create transformation is by overcoming objections through storytelling. And that's what Tony has mastered. And so, like I've heard the same story so many times, but now it's like, well, wait a minute. What's the lesson in this story and how can that relate to my life? And how can I take those little nuances that are gonna significantly change the entire trajectory of my life and apply them to my life and my principles? And you said to yourself earlier about honestly not liking or loving, I think I don't wanna misword it or mis, but did you mention something about like, not loving yourself or not loving how you're showing up at times? Is that what you mentioned earlier?

From Chaos to Success: The Journey of Self-Discovery and Personal Growth with Kyle Livingston

Michael: When I started my own business, it was massively a struggle, it was painful, it was uncomfortable, it cost me everything. Right. Because I was just chasing money and what I'm getting to is, I felt and I still feel like in that time, not today, in that time, that if I chase that at some point, I would hit a level of success that made me like myself, and I'm wondering if that's true?

Kyle: Dude, that was a hundred percent how I felt because there were times where I had a lot of money in the bank and I felt great, and then I didn't have a lot of money in the bank and I felt like total shit. And I realized that my identity was attached to the work and the money and not who I was as a person. And dude, that just takes you on the wrong paths in a lot of areas, you approach relationships differently, you look at opportunities differently and a thousand percent resonate with that.

Michael: What's your identity today?

Kyle: So, for me, man, like I'm a believer, so like I believe in God, I believe in Christ. And I think that for me, my identity is wrapped in like, how can I move the kingdom forward? What can I do for the kingdom? And I look at money as a fuel to move kingdom forward. And so, my identity is wrapped in like I have a bigger purpose and for me, there's two things that I really push forward and like the things that I strive for and it's like, it's more my why, but I kind of attach it into my identity even it’s like dude, there are women and children today, Lockton f**** cages being sold to the highest bidding pig in the room. And it's like, my identity is like, I need to go save those people and I know it takes resources to do it. And so, my identity is like, how can I go get resources to get them out of those fucking cages?

Michael: One of the things that we do with Think Unbroken is we donate to Operation Underground Railroad, which I'm sure you must be familiar with and I do that one because I grew up in an environment where you saw children being hurt constantly, I'm one of those children. And two, because when you really recognize the evil of money. The evil of money I don't think it's about big buildings and I don't think it's about luxury cars, and I don't think, I don't think that's the evil of money. I think the evil of money is what people do with it to hurt other people and because like human hunting is f*** real. Human trafficking is real. Child s*x islands are f**** real. Yep. And people go, I'm mad at the 1% ‘cuz they can buy all the Starbucks they want. I'm like, you guys are looking at this totally backwards, you're missing the point entirely. Why is it that now? And what has even shifted for you in which you have become, I'm gonna call you a servant leader for lack of a better way to phrase it. What brought that on? Because you're more successful than you were a decade ago, you're doing better in business. You have a great home, you got Audis, you got the wife, everything seems to be on paper, what you're looking for, and yet there's that side of you like, no, I've got to give more like, why? Because most people, don’t whether they're making 50 grand or 500 million, they're like, I'm not gonna give, I'm gonna get me first. Especially when they come from backgrounds like us. And so, you and I have this very interesting parallel track where I'm looking at this, I'm going, yep. We were here, we were here together. We were here together. And now on the other side of it, we're here together. And so my shift came because I just simply realized at rock bottom, when I was 50 grand in debt, borrowing money from my girlfriend to pay rent. It doesn't actually matter, that was for me. So, I'm curious, what was the shift for you?

Kyle: I don't know if I can like nail down one single shift, man. I've always been a kind person, right? And once I started giving back and started actually like having, here's where I think it came down to. Once I got to a place in life where I had more than I needed and I saw other people struggling and I started helping, like selfishly in the beginning it was like, f***, that feels good, right? Like I was able to help them and it actually got a little like, I don't know, a little weird ‘cuz then it kind of went to my ego. It's like, well, I make such good money, I can go help people. Or I had a really good month, I could go help this person and it started feeding into my ego and I had to take a step back at one point and realize like giving isn't about me. Like sure, it makes me feel good, but giving to other people and helping other people, like that's what it's about. And I think for me, what comes up when you say this is Ed Mylett says this, he says, when I get to heaven and I see what the version of myself that God created me to be, I don't wanna be a stranger to that person and I don't want that person to be a stranger to me. And there's always been something inside of me that's like on the ego side of things that feels like I can just do anything. Like if you tell me or if I wanna do something, like I will go do it and I will figure it out and I will win and because I have that talent and that skillset, if you will, that I've developed over training my mind for a decade plus because I have that skillset, I owe it to myself and to other people and to God to go and actually do the things that I'm placed here to be. And if I make it about me, I'm just playing too small and the rewards at that level aren't big enough for what I want. Whereas if I make it about other people, like dude, my goal is to be able to rescue and rehabilitate 30 women a year, it costs about $80,000. I think last time I looked was about $83,000 to rescue and rehabilitate a child or a victim of sex trafficking. And it's like, if I just made this about me, I could do a couple hundred grand or a million bucks in my business like that's awesome. But if I make it about those other people, now I can create something much larger and not only can I help them, but now my clients, like their kids do the way that I work in my business and I operate in business is like my client's children will never have to know the trauma that you and I grew up with, and that's f*** important to me. And so, if I can take and work with 70 clients versus seven, and I can rescue 80 women instead of 30, like that's just feels good like that's what I'm here to do. And I have that skillset that I've developed that allows me to do it, that most people don't have the opportunity to get dude, you know, growing up we talked about the resilience early on. Dude, most people can't get punched in the mouth over and over and over and over and over and over again and keep going. I can, and as much as it sucks, those were the traits that I were given, and most people just won't ever get those dude.

Transform Your Life: 10 Innovative Ideas with Gino Wickman

when you're my age, rewind 20 years ago what were the things that you did that became the most practical shifts that you made in getting to where you are today? Because sometimes I get in this place, man, where I'm like, okay, I've done all these things and people go, you're super successful. And I'm like, I don't feel successful, I don't feel like I've really achieved the thing I'm trying to achieve. I don't feel like, many things in my life are what I want them to be of course. I'm always moving towards them. I'm always growing. Mentorship, coaching, guidance, education, execution, obviously being the greatest form of learning. And I'm wondering when you had that shift at 35 heading into the second half of your thirties, into your forties, into your fifties, what were the things that really transpired?

Gino: Yeah, for sure. Again, I'll go back to context on this if you'll humor me for three minutes. And I'm gonna give you a very specific answer because what's important on that question is again, I am and was an entrepreneur. And so in everything that I've written and I teach, it's all from experience and so with Entrepreneurial Leap, that book is all about helping someone who thinks they're an entrepreneur, start their business, know the right business, become a successful entrepreneur. Rocket Fuel is all about as a visionary, finding your perfect integrator match. Traction is all about helping you implement EOS in your business and run a great business. And then the EOS life is all about how to live your ideal life as an entrepreneur. So, I was doing all of that, I did all of that by 35, I was that successful entrepreneur who built something pretty incredible. The reason I'm saying all that is the answer to your question, ironically, is it was right around then 20 years ago that I started to live by these 10 disciplines. So, they all started between like 20 and 25 years ago. And so, what I wanna do is I want to quickly give you a real fast, high level of what the 10 disciplines are because these are the 10 things that I did to really magnify my energy, to really magnify my performance, my output, my productivity. And so, I'll go through 'em really fast, high level and then what I always like to do, you know your audience better than I do, but the one or two that maybe jump out at you, we can go a little deeper into. 

10 DISCIPLINES FOR MANAGING AND MAXIMIZING YOUR ENERGY

1. 10-year Thinking
2. Take time off
3. Know thyself
4. Be still
5. Know your hundred percent.
6. Say no often
7. Don't do $25 an hour work
8. Prepare every night
9. Put everything in one place

• Be humble

And so, to answer your question, those are the 10 things I started doing at 35 years old that were transformative in my life.

Michael: Now out of curiosity, are those in a particular order?

Gino: Okay. But I will tell you this, I obsessed about that and there's maybe two I might flip, but honest to God, they're in a pretty darn good order. I am thrilled with the order that they're in, but I didn't fully intend that but they're in the best order I could put him in after obsessing.

Michael: Yeah, thinking through it in like first order of principles and order of magnitude, that's where my brain went ‘cuz it's entrepreneurial like that. But the one that sticks out to me that I think personally I struggle with the most and anyone who knows me personally knows this. I don't take time off. And historically I have not taken time off. And in fact, I'll go three, four years and not actually like, do any significant, like, removing myself. And it's not for the purpose of like, I must drive, drive, drive, drive, drive. Dude, I get so freaking bored if you're like, let's just watch a movie and hang out or if you're like, let's just not do anything for a day. I'm like, my brain doesn't operate, and I think a lot of people do. Now, one of them that you said, number three, which is actually one of the same principles that I teach this audience all the time, know thyself. So, I know this about myself, so I don't beat myself up about not taking the time off but a lot of people do. So many people are like, man, I feel like I'm a loser if I take a vacation, blah, blah, that's not my mentality it just doesn't interest me just to be straight up. So I'm curious, how do you parlay know thyself into all of these areas of this? Because to me, I asked you about the order ‘cuz I feel like that feels predominantly number one, but I understand there's no particular order here. So how do you know thy self in a way that allots you the space to assess all these different areas?

Gino: Yeah, I love it. You know, and I can't help myself, but to spend 30 seconds, I'd take time off because I have to challenge you and I built EOS worldwide over 15 years, grew 40% a year for 15 years, taking 150 days off a year. Taking the month of August off every year, a monthly sabbatical. And what I learned from me, what it did is it literally made me more productive. I became more productive by turning because I was more creative, I was more clear, I was my output was better because I would take time to refresh and come back into the business, seeing things clear. Now, with that said, at the end of the day, if you work every day, and I'm assuming if you mean every day, you're talking about 365 days a year for somebody like you, I just urge you to try one day. You don't need to go take 150 days off a year you would implode, just try one day and just see what happens for you. But all I can tell you is for me, I was clearer, better, more creative, I was able to hit the reset button and just much more productive when I came into the business. And it just created space for me to also do this inner work that we're talking about. So, there's my impassion to plea for you, I'll back off and let's go to what you're describing as my favorite discipline, and that's know thyself. And I purposely put no thyself third because I think it starts with 10-year thinking where you need to start thinking about every aspect of your life in 10 years and taking time off to start to create space. But know thyself is once all 10 disciplines are in place and operating in your life, and these all work together like a puzzle, this creates space for you to really go deep into this one and know thyself. And like I said earlier, this is that zero to a hundred percent thing. I don't know where it ends in terms of you knowing myself, but the way I like to teach this and describe it is my goal for you. And what this discipline is all about is that you will be yourself 100% of the time in every situation that you're in, that's the goal. But to be yourself, you cannot do that until you fully know thy self and so, it starts with knowing myself.

And so, I was like to share a quick personal story.

When I was 30, my wife threw me 30th, surprise birthday party, and I walk into this room, I hear them yell, surprise, and I'm looking into a hundred sets of eyeballs from six factions of my life, and I look around this room and quoting myself in my mind, I looked around at these six factions and I went, holy shit, who in the fuck am I gonna be today? Because what I realized is I was literal six different people. There were my employees, there were my business partners, there were my high school buddies, there were my new friends, there was my family, there was my wife's family, and I was a different person for every single one of them. So, imagine what I was doing to my energy, I was twisting myself in a knot, I was being something I wasn't. And so that was the aha moment where I said to myself, I am going to be going forward and stop bending myself into a pretzel. So, know thyself, my goal for everyone is to, what I'd like to say, let your freak flag fly. Fully free your soul and be yourself in the world, and so, it's a process. So, for me, that was 30 years ago, here I am 25 years later. And I think I'm doing pretty darn good at being myself, but man, as I keep doing this work, I realize, whoa, there's another block, there's another thing I'm doing to myself where I'm not fully trusting myself. I'm not fully unconditionally loving myself, and so it's a journey, but I am whatever the percentage is, I am a hell a lot more myself today than I was 25 years ago at 30, and I fully expect that 25 years from now, I'm gonna be a hell a lot more myself and so it's a process, it's a journey, it's all part of that shedding, but doing the work to really understand who you are and just giving yourself permission to let your freak flag fly.