Small Steps, Massive Change: The Path to Healing Trauma and Self-Discipline

From Trauma to Triumph Life after Trafficking with Shametria Gonzales

Michael: When we're young, we have no idea, you're just like, I'm just gonna survive this and then when you become older, it becomes this amazing, amazing tool if you're able to leverage it. But now here you are heading into 15 years old, you've made an incredibly difficult decision. At the same time, you're deciding to take control of your life at 15 years old, I'm getting kicked outta school for selling drugs. Right. And so what I'm curious about where did that decision come from for you? If you nuance it down, was there an experience, multiple experiences. I remember kids emancipating themselves, and I even researched it myself when I was like 16. And I was just like, I guess I didn't literally get it then. But what happened in your life where like, I'm actually gonna do this thing?

Shametria: Oh man. So, I mean, truthfully. So I was a part of student council, I was a part of volleyball, basketball track, I had won like a homecoming queen, cuz I think that was the year be after eighth grade. Eighth grade, I had won like homecoming queen so like eighth grade was the best year of my life. I felt like I could do anything, I felt like I was on top of the world and I've had one person who listened to me and she was my social worker at the school. And she motivated me, she told me to read books, she told me that I'm not tangential, that I'm important. And I didn't know what that word meant, but I looked it up and I'm like, oh, that means that I'm not just something that could be replaced like I am somebody like I'd never had somebody pour into me the way she did. And so she would put these ideas in my head of like, I could do it, you know, and I could be better and I could make this happen. So, I like to tell people all you need is one person, one person to care, one person to show you a route, one person to give you an idea, and it's based on you, but because of what that seed is that she planted, it changed my life and granted, mine was also a little motive, you know, it's not all peachy, creamy. It was kind of like, I'm gonna prove y'all wrong, you ain't get no more money off of me. So, I don't really show that side too much, but it was definitely when I was 15, it was kind of like, you know, like, watch kind of that cardy B, I'm gonna show you. So, all of those things really, that one person was really, who made it happen. But I'd also been a part of a very publicly humiliating, you know, statutory rape at 15, right before I decided to do all that and nobody believed me, but DNA proved me right? And it was five guys, and this was in a small, small country town, it was so small. All three country towns had to come together to make one high school. Cause my freshman year in high school, and it was five guys and we had went to this party and remember, like, nobody, I did what I wanted to do. I didn't have any, like, nobody watching over me. So I go to this party, I'm drinking, I'd never touched a drink my whole life. I used to see my uncle like pee on himself, like, cuz, and then he is like, oh, ‘cuz he's drunk. And I'm like, oh, I don't ever want that to happen, right? So there's power and being exposed to stuff that's the byproduct of something that's bad. But I decided to drink one thing led to another, they took me in a car, took me in the forest, did what they did, brought me back to the party, no clothes on, completely passed out. The girls washed me up. So, basically all of this happens, I never say a word, which is the very first time that I realized that I did have power. But someone else, like, I go to school the next day and we're all playing volleyball, and I start to have blood. So, I run out, I run into the locker room and I'm like, balling, I'm like, you know, like I needed to be stitched up, I was hurt really bad. And so, but I wasn't gonna say nothing because I wanted to go away, I'm like, I messed up again, my mind rationalized it as everybody thinks this of me already. Now I'm proving them, right? Like, I gotta keep, I gotta bury this.

The girl runs in that washed me off and she's like, I knew this was gonna happen, are you okay? They raped you, they brought you back to my house, yelling, everybody runs in the locker room, she's crying,all the girls are like, what happened? Some of the girls, it's their boyfriend, two of them. So, they wanna fight me cuz they think I'm like, so there's something that a school teacher has to do, which is called being a mandated reporter. One of my coach has to tell the principal, my principal has to tell the nurse, the nurse has to call the police, the police have to call my foster parents, which at the time was one of my grandmother's, who had took me in. And that right their kind of like, I gotta get out this town, I gotta get away from everybody and I'm ruined. But I appreciate them now that I look back for being a mandated reporter, because they got me the proper medical attention that I needed I had to get 26 stitches. I still sometimes wake up and think that somebody's on top of me, I have these vivid dreams where it's like, I'm sleep, but I wake up and I can't get up. And it's like somebody's on top of me and the only thing I could do is like go back to sleep and it happens every now and then. But, you know, that stemmed all of my disbelief in myself and also my belief in myself. So, it made me feel like, one, I have to run away from this small town, I messed up their life and I don't know how to fix that because they got persecuted prosecuted the woman who threw the house party went to jail for over a year. The girls were prosecuted for washing me off. I mean, everybody told the truth except the guys, but DNA was found so that case really set me up and I don't think I've ever told that story publicly but that's literally as I'm thinking through in honesty, you know, just sharing with you that case is what prompted everything for me to get away and to prove everybody wrong and to change my life and to be in control. So the fact that I went and met these women that I trusted, ‘cuz it was women, I didn't trust men, but I thought I could trust women, that's what catapulted me into trafficking. And when it happened and started, I'm like, my body's ruined anyways like, nobody cares.

Michael: One of the things that like really hits home for me and what you're saying is and that's just such a tremendously painful experience. And you think about those moments and the commonality of it all. And something I have shared publicly, I was like, I was molested as a child. And you see this happen again and again and again. And in communities like ours and families like ours and schools like ours and it's like, but why? And then you go, okay, well this is both a generational and genetic and an energetic experience that precedes us. Like it goes back thousands of years and you're just like, okay, well sometimes, and this is a real f*cked up way to phrase it, I think about this a lot and go like, it's the inevitability of the experience of the life of the people who grow up, how we grow up. It's so unbelievably common that I use the word inevitability. And it's heartbreaking because you're sitting here and you're like, okay, well, you know, we then learn to not trust, we learn to not love, we put up these big barriers for many of us, and I include myself in this to cope with it, it's drugs, it's alcohol, it's sex, it's gambling, it's addiction, it's driving 150 miles an hour on the highway, it's doing all these crazy, crazy things. And yet still there's this element for some of us where you come out the other side of it with resilience but that takes a long time. It's so much work to get there. And so now you're in this position where you've made a decision, you're going to emancipate yourself, you luckily, if you go look at resilience research it always points to this concept of there's one person who supports you, the chances of you finding success exponential versus some of these kids who have no one. And so, even one counselor, I mean, that's a big deal and I always point to, you know, one of my teachers, Mester Hollingsworth, who still listens to the show sometimes. He's the cornerstone cuz he sat down with me one day, he goes, you're not supposed to be here. Right. And he just saw something in me, when I didn't and that was a really, really big deal. And so now here you are, you're facing a reality that is almost impossible to make tangible ‘cuz there's no way that you don't become dissociated from something like there's no way, I mean, I'm not you obviously but the thing that I think about is the autonomic response that our bodies have to, that amount of stress is for you to disappear, it's how you cope, was this a part of the experience for you?

Shametria: Yes. I knew that the small I looked at the people around me, everybody in that small town, either you go to college, you make it out, or you work at a local place. I feel like if I wouldn't have went through that, I would have been one of those girls who would've stayed there and kind of went into the same trajectory of what I saw other people doing because I didn't experience anything else. But when that happened to me, I knew I had to run far away because one, I didn't wanna be associated with that story, that I didn't want people to know that about me. And then I also didn't wanna be hurt, I didn't wanna die like I really thought that they would fight me or try to hurt, like these were division one-a state champions that had already went to college and came back for homecoming, four of them lost their scholarship ‘cuz of decisions they made. But that little 15-year-old girl thought it was because of decisions that I made. So, I felt like I messed up everybody's life, I felt like I was the worst thing that happen to that town. And if I could left it, then that they would be better without me and that I could go and I could reinvent myself, that's what I did. So, when I say reinvent my story, like after that, they're like, I'm Shametria, you know, before they called me naname, that was my nickname cuz my middle name's Janae. So I changed my name. I'm like, I'm gonna use my birth name Shametria Gonzalez, I'm gonna emancipate myself now I'm legally grown. I'm gonna get a job, Sonic Drive-ins right across the street from my school. I'm gonna go to Sonic and get a job. I'm gonna sign myself into school. What school? I don't know. I'm gonna pick a school based on where I could get it stay in a shelter or somewhere. So, like I got a bus ticket to Dallas and that was it.

Michael: How far away was Dallas from that town?

Shametria: So this was this small town called Garwood, Texas, and it's like 45 minutes outside of Houston, so honestly, to me, like Dallas was like the big city, you know? Right. Houston was still too close so, Dallas was the next big thing in Texas. So, I and my sister also went to UNT, I forgot that part so I felt like I would have some support there. So, I have an older sister, my mom got pregnant at 11. She had her at 12. And my older sister has a PhD. She's married, she has three kids, a husband, same family lineage like that's big for us that never happens. No one else that I know in my family has one father of their children is married, educated, and went through adversity like she did. So, in a way I was kind of following in her footsteps, but she tried to take me in for a little while and then she kicked me out. I was troubled and I didn't, I was hurt and I did not know how to cope with that.

This Mindset Shift Will Change Your Life with Byron Morrison

Michael: I'm wondering what was that like for you as you bit up the courage, which is the word I think is most appropriate when you're walking into the gym for the first time as you bit up the courage to be like, I'm going to do this. What were the mental health shifts that started to happen? Because those things that you did then are paying dividends today. 

Byron: Yeah. I couldn't agree with you more. Like there is such a correlation because for me, going back, like as I started to lose weight and I started to look better, I started to feel better, my energy went up. As a result, my confidence went up, I was more exceptable going out and speaking to people, I felt better about who I was, I didn't feel as ashamed in my body like it was all of these things a direct and all of a big part of that was why I had mental health challenges ‘cause I didn't like the way I looked in the mirror and all of those things so it's a huge correlation. It's really interesting you should say, this about someone saying that you're fat shaming because this happened to me a couple of months ago, I put up a before and after photo and I was just like, back at this guy, I didn't like who this guy was. I didn't like how I looked. I was always the guy I was too ashamed to take his show off on the beach, and I talked about my thing and someone was like, I look like you're before photo and I'm healthy. And it was just turning into this whole thing of like you're fat shaming and saying like, there's something wrong with this and I was like, that's not the point. Like I was talking about my journey but I think it's interesting how some people, when they're struggling with their own thing, they take it as like a negative whereas for me it was just sharing of like, I wanted to make this change and just trying to spread like that belief that other people can, if it's something they wanna do. But I think going back to your question, I think it's so incredibly powerful for your mental health. I even find now if I skip training for a while, I find like the stress of work and everything else goes, starts weighing on a little bit heavier and just has to be a non-negotiable in my life.

Michael: Yeah. It's funny, I was just doing some research on Peter Tia, who is a famous scientist, doctor and researcher here in the States about health and longevity, and of all of the potential actions that one person could take to increase their longevity, their long-term health, and their lifespan. The number one thing that you can do is exercise. You wanna have a better mental health, physical health, emotional health, spiritual health, energetic health exercise is number one-point blank period. But dude, look, and I think the reason, and obviously this isn't a conversation about exercise, but I think it's really important. If you do not move your physical body, which is the most important element of your wellbeing, you will be in disease, you will probably have disease, right? And so, you head down this path where it's like, okay, wait a second, what should I really be doing? This conversation is so much really about the journey to discovery and being who it is that you are today. When you look at who you are as Byron today, and you're measuring the things that have led down the path, what are some of the cornerstones? What are some of the key elements that have helped you become who you are? 

 Byron: Yeah, so I think a big thing in my life is just having something bigger than yourself that you're striving towards because even though the work I've been doing over the last decade has evolved and pivoted in various ways, the mission behind it's always been the same. It's always been wanting to help as many people as possible who are struggling like I was, take control of their lives. And that for me has been the cornerstone of what drives me to do what I do. And I see a lot of people who don't have a purpose bigger than themselves, and that's how they get stuck going through the motions like I am fortunate to work with a lot of very successful people, and I've spoken to guys who've got millions in the bank on paper, they've got it all, but they're absolutely miserable, they've sacrificed everything to get to where they are, their marriages are broken down, their kids don't speak to them like they hate life. And for me it's just, part of it is ‘cuz they just keep chasing money and I'm awful going for money in wealth and stuff. Like no problem with that, but I'm a just a big believer, like you have to have a purpose behind it and that's still the thing that drives me like it just during the bad days and the days where you get knocked down, does anyone in business knows that you have times like that. It's still like the thing that keeps me going. It's like, do you know what, if I can go to bed tonight, even though knowing that I'm doing something, it's trying to make the world and my life a better place, then that's what keeps me moving forward. 

Michael: Yeah. What is that mission for you now?  

Byron: It's the same when I said a few minutes ago, it's like wanting to help people who are struggling like I was, or who are at a place where like they know they're meant for something more, but they're just getting in their own way like they know what to do, but they're not doing it. Whether it was when I was doing the health work, that was the focus, the mindset work is the evolution of that it's always going to help people who are struggling like I was, so they can avoid the traps that I was in. 

 Michael: Yeah. My mentor often refers to it as the dummy tax and a lot of what I do and have built and created with Think Unbroken is, can I help people not pay the dummy tax because I've already done it? ‘Cuz trusts me, I've done some of the dumbest shi*t you could possibly imagine. But I think the thing that people get to this journey is hard, man, you know, this, I mean, you're dealing with childhood trauma, lack of confidence, being bullied, being overweight, working a job that sucks, dealing with a father who's terminally ill, facing your own demons going down this path. And you know, it's almost apropo that the title of your book is “maybe you should just give up” And I feel like so many people, they have just given up on life, they just quit, they're like, I'm done. Obviously, I realized that there's a connotation that's very different in the book, and so I'd love for you to talk about what that really means like what does, maybe you should give up mean?

 Byron: Yeah, so over the last decade now, I've worked with people in 15 different countries, and what I discover is that there are seven mental blocks that every single one of us hold onto that stops us from living the life we want, whether it's fear, comparing ourself to others, being too hard on ourselves, worrying about problems that haven't happened yet. So maybe you should give up it's not about giving up on your goals and dreams, it's about giving up, holding onto everything that's stopping you from them from turning them into reality. Ultimately, it's a book about empowerment, about helping you break through everything, it's holding you back so that you can take control of the life that you want.

Michael: So, going into that and looking at it on paper, people will hear, okay, cool, seven things sound easier said than done. But Byron, you don't know my life, man, you don't know what it's like. I've been through hell. I'm in debt, I'm struggling, my relationship’s falling apart. I got kids. I don't have any extra time. I'm overweight. I mean, I can keep going. Right? And it's like, well, okay, well, what do I do, man? Like where do I start? My life is a disaster, what do I actually do here? 

Byron: Yeah. So, the first thing that we always need to figure out is who does someone need to become to turn their life around? Because part of the reason people are stuck is they're spending their days with the same habits, the same behaviors, the same routines, and then hoping that they're gonna be able to change their life. And the reality is that what made you who you are today isn't gonna help you become who you're meant to be tomorrow. And that's why the first step in any journey of transformation is you need to have a vision of where you want to go. But then you also need to figure out who's the version of you that's turned into reality. And anyone listening to this right now can do it like, just think about, okay, your goals and dream and vision you want. Get a mentor image in your mind of what does the version of you who made that happen look like? And then ask yourself, what routines did they develop? What behaviors did they create? What non-negotiables did they do every single day that got them to where they are? That's gonna help you create a blueprint to figure out, okay, these are the exact changes that you need to embody to get to where you wanna be. But then knowing that is not enough, you need to start pushing yourself to show up as that person in everything that you do. And the way that you do this is you have to take feelings like willpower and motivation out of the equation. When it comes time to do something, you need to ask yourself, what would the person I wanna become do right now? Would they make excuses? Would they put it off, or would they take action? Like whether it's hitting the gym, having that tough conversation, working on that business, whatever it is, you have to start making decisions and taking action as the person you wanna become because when you start doing that, then you'll stop overcoming your excuses, your fears, your reasons why it can't be done, and you'll start building your confidence, your momentum, and over time you'll start evolving into that next level version of yourself.

How to Overcome Burnout: Transform Anxiety with Dr. Sharon Grossman

Michael: How do you navigate at the beginning of this discovery? I have talked to so many people I've coached over the years where we're sitting in a session and I look across from them and I go, Oh, no, no, you're done. We're not coaching right now. Take the week off. You're not allowed to heal this week. Go live because so many people get caught up and then they leave down this path of like, they're burned out on healing. And I'm like, dude, like you're missing the point. So, if somebody is in the beginning and they're like, I'm f*cking overwhelmed, I hear what you're saying, I get it. Like these little seeds start to grow into giant trees, but then I'm out here like harvesting an entire orchard like what do you. Like how do you navigate the start of this?

Sharon: Well, with regards to overwhelm, I always tell people overwhelm is what happens when you're focused on too many things at once, or something that's so big that you are like, I don't even know where to start. And I always liken it too, when you've got too many tabs open on your computer and it just makes the whole system either slow down or crash. And the solution is just work on one tab at a time, right? I mean, even if you've got 15 tabs open on your computer, you can't do all the things at one time, so, start with one thing. And that helps people to just focus and not have to worry about all the things. So even if it's one big project, break it down into the steps and then just focus on step one, don't worry about the other 14. Right?

Michael: Yeah. But I want to be held now, Sharon.

Sharon: Well, we haven't created that magic pill yet, so we'll get back to you when that happens but I mean, yeah, listen. We are a new generation, with technology and everything else, like it feeds into that of like its instant gratification. However, it did not take a minute for you to get to where you are in terms of your trauma and your wounds and all that stuff, and it's not going to take a minute to get out of it, it's a process. And I always tell my clients like, even if you've had years of trauma, let's say it's 10 years, it's not going to take 10 years to undo it necessarily, but the opposite is also not true. It's not going to take one session, right? So, it's kind of like somewhere in between there and depending on the kind of therapy that you do or the kind of modality and how much work you put it into it and all that, you'll get there. But we have to be realistic just like with anything else, you're not going to get results like that because that's just not how things work. However, I will say there are amazing therapeutic modalities that have accelerated the results for specifically healing trauma. So, I don't know if your listeners are familiar with EMDR, that's eye movement desensitization and reprocessing, that is one technique that for people who have singular traumas, like I was in a car accident, or I went to a dentist and I was traumatize or I had somebody break up with me in a really crash way, whatever it is, right? If there's something that is like a singular incident that can truly help if it's kind of a long stemming trauma, it can help with an incident at a time, but it's not going to necessarily change all of it, right?

If you've had like, abuse for eight years of your childhood. You can't like fix it like that. But it is great for all those other things, and that's huge because I mean, I've had clients who have overcome distress levels of 10, out of 10 in as little as 15 minutes. Right? And so these modalities are being developed and I think that is, the next best thing to instant gratification, ‘cuz that doesn't really exist, I mean, but it does work really quickly. And I would say anything that utilizes the body is a way better approach to managing the recovery from trauma than anything that starts in your brain. Right? Because our brain is just so fixed on the way that it thinks about things and we've got these beliefs and it's just like a lot harder to move that than it is to tackle from the bottom up, which is your emotions, right? If you can move the energy through the body, it actually just works a lot faster and you can bisect the mind like you cannot have to go through all the thoughts, you can just kind of have the energy kind of transpire, which is a beautiful thing.

Michael: Hmm. Yeah. So true. And I think that also just going to the beginning because it is like these little bits and pieces you chunk away at, it's these nuances, it's like if you understand that the relationship with time has to be adjusted and if you can give yourself the freedom from leveraging this journey as into if, then when like, oh my God, there's so much freedom in it because it's like I still have sh*t, like I woke up the other day and I was like, f*ck, I'm still dealing with this sh*t from 25 years ago. I've been to therapy. I've done EMDR, I'm like the guy, and I still have it, like it's still a part of it, there are still these moments. I think one of the things people get lost in, I mean, there's probably still moments where you have resentment towards your mother. Right. And it's like in the nuance, but you notice it, you bring attention to it, you recognize that that's actually not your being, it's not your organism, it's like your brain ‘cuz your brain is like, yeah, don't you remember that one time? And you're like, shut up brain. You don't understand like, the life that I'm in right now. You know, it's funny, I had Dr. Caroline Leaf on the show, I don't know if you're familiar with her.

Sharon: Yeah. She was on my podcast as well.

Michael: She's an incredible human being. And I told her, I was like, you know, I have this theory that your brain is a liar.

Sharon: Totally. Hundred percent.

Michael: And I just sit here and I think to myself, the reason why we often get pulled back into those old emotional states is that our brain is looking for supporting data like it's that whole, you will go and find what you're looking for. And so, if you still want to be mad about sh*t from 30 years ago, guess what? Oh my God, I remember when Tommy stole my shoe and f*ck that guy. I hope he got hit by a car. Right? And you're like, but wait a second, that's not logical, that's just your brain being an a*h*le.

Sharon: Well, it's kind of like, I don't know if you've ever had this experience, but I remember when I became a parent and all of a sudden…

Michael: I have not had that experience.

Sharon: No, I know you haven't. But I'm saying something like this, right? Where all of a sudden, I started seeing strollers everywhere. And I'm like, is this new? I'm like, no. It's the fact that I wasn't paying attention to it. But now that I have a stroller for my child, I am seeing other people with stroller for their child or if it's like if you got a new car and it's red, all of a sudden you see like lots of red cars everywhere, you know, it's that sort of thing. So, I think your brain is looking for patterns and if you already have an existing pattern, it is going to look for support for that pattern. Which is why it's really important to have self-awareness, like what is my brain doing? And to be able to challenge all of the stories that it's coming up with because yeah, your brain often does lie to you, it's not necessarily sharing with you real data that is helpful, or that's even true, and so you have to ask those questions. This is the thought in my brain, is that true? This is the thought in my brain isn't hopeful for me to think about it this way? Because often the answer is going to be no. And if you can figure that out and then find an alternative thought to describe the circumstance that you're in or to think about or interpret the situation, you can change how you feel and the consequent behavior you can say to yourself, yeah, I mean, I can stay pissed off at Tommy. But that's only punishing me because now I'm carrying around all this resentment, and as they say, resentment is like drinking poison and waiting for the other person to die. So, we're just carrying all this stuff around thinking like, oh, I can't release that because I'm going to let Tommy get away with what he did. So, we have this justification of why we're holding onto it, but in reality, Tommy doesn't even know or care what you're carrying around, you're the one that's feeling it.

How to Overcome Bad Habits and Embrace a Positive Life with Sean Robinson

Michael: How did you find discipline in this journey for yourself? Because that's the place where most people fall off, that's why dreams get shattered, that's why families get disrupted, that's why, you know, we end up having a podcast like this because it's like, I know that if we can share the real truth about this, ‘cuz this is not easy, like we can create change. So, what led you down the path of discipline in this way that it became substantial enough in your life that you decided to hold your commitment to yourself?

Sean: I think what happened was everything, like always in my life, I was overweight and it held me back in so many ways because I never had the confidence to try out for certain sports teams or to be involved or to go out places because I was overweight and just yes, not confident. So, as I started to get towards the end of 2020 and I was 320 pounds and just felt absolutely miserable, I was negative, I tried to everything to bring everybody down around me, looked for the negativity and other people, couldn't be happy for anybody. And was just feeling miserably, mentally, physically got to a point where I knew that I needed something to change my relationship, we had just had my daughter, she was just a couple months old, and the stress of just adding a third child to life was around us, and my actions were not helping, I felt stuck because nothing I felt like I had done before, even if it was just a half effort, it didn't fix it, it wasn't going to do it. So, getting to a point where, like, I started journaling at the end of 2020 and journaling was like, I might better have taken my clothes off and went outside in front of the neighborhood like, it was so uncomfortable for me because I couldn't talk to the people that work construction or the firefighters like volunteer that I'm with. We weren't talking about journaling because men didn't do that. Men weren't gonna keep a diary. Little girls keep diaries and all the sh*t and abuse I would've taken from everyone around me if they found out this journal existed. And it just became a place for me to vent. Right. I was gonna outlet in this place where no one else was gonna be able to judge me for it. And that became great for me, for the resources I've learned since, like for why, but like, that was not something I'd ever done before. And it was almost like I was secretive about it like I didn't even tell my wife right away that I was keeping this journal and this journal became this book, it was me documenting this all along that, that just put this out there because I went through. But deciding to change and be disciplined was finding myself that miserable and trying things I'd never tried before, deciding to do dry January and keep documenting, it was something started to feel like it was working and holding myself to the 30 days aside from what everyone else around me was doing. And then the next 28 days and then a hundred days and once I got to a hundred days, it was like, what if I did this for a year? So, breaking it down into the smaller steps the way that I did and I know that there's literature that proved that, but that wasn't where, I wasn't open to that at the time. Keeping those small goals helped me stay consistent because it didn't seem like it was gonna be a lifetime of not having something, it was I'm only worried about these 30 days, I'm only worried about the next 30 days. And once I stacked those together, it became a lot, a more solid base for me to build on.

Michael: Yeah, the nuance is everything, right? It's like if you can just be in this moment, be in this day and look at the potential, I think so many people make a mistake when they change their life and they look at all the things that they're losing, right? I'm gonna lose my friendships, I'm gonna lose watching the game, I'm gonna lose this and that. But it's like that's not really true, ‘cuz you can still do those. And what I think is fascinating is when you make these decisions, you'll find out who your real friends are like in a real way, like in a f*cked up way where you're like, yo, I didn't, I thought you were my boy, you're not. I thought, you're my homegirl, you're not. Right? But when you look at it through this window of potential impossibility, the thing that I always have come to find is like, when I give something up, I gained something. I remember once I was talking with Grant Cardone and he said, you know, to get what you want in life, you have to give something up and it's like, well, what do you want? Do you want better health? Do you wanna lose 50 pounds? Do you wanna have a better marriage and relationship with your kids? Do you want to have a better career? Do you want to be able to look in the mirror and feel proud about who you are as a human being? The answer's yes, well give up the thing that's f*cking your life up. And that's the hard part because we get so comfortable in. Where we're like, Nope, this is just my life. It sucks. I guess this is how it's gonna be. If you were to give anybody just a single piece of advice to how to shift that mindset and look for possibility, what would you tell them?

Sean: I would tell them that we don't know what we're doing. I would say that they’re not unique because none of us know what we're doing, so that would help me point to some of the things that I've picked up since, and coming from our, all of our individual backgrounds and the things that we go through, coming to that realization that we need help, we need to open up to the resources. I wasn't there. Someone could have told me to listen to Think Unbroken podcasts and I'll get around to it, whether or not it was the most relevant thing for me and until I got to a point where I was ready to open up to that, it was the aha moment that I had. When we started talking, it was like, I didn't know that all of these things you talk Grant Cardone, I've listened to probably all of his books like he gets me jacked up as much as the next person, I think until you hear him and yourself and everyone say these things we don't know, we don't realize. When I'm in my habit and routine of work in construction and you're listening to the radio, you gotta listen to the rock music and have it loud and do that all the time, we're not listening to these things because we're not talking about these things. And until we open up ourselves to this content in this realm, we're missing the message. So, I would share is, is that we are missing the message and until we open up to what's available, we're not gonna get it. We won't have that aha moment where we we're able to fix what's not worked for us in the past.

Michael: Yeah, I mean, that's so true. I talk about this a lot, but I once had a roommate's girlfriend give me a copy of Eckhart Tolle, a New Earth, and I immediately threw it in the trashcan. Right? And so, you think about it's like if you're not in a place where you're open to anything to come in and change your life, it's not gonna happen. And I think so many people are not, which is devastating to me, it's like they're just not open, but they want their life to be different. And I'm like, oh, it doesn't work that way, you have to be open to the possibility that there is a plausible aspect that everything that you want in your life, you can have but it's only gonna start with you sitting in your truth. Like I imagine at some point, Sean, and here's what I think about a lot there is some dark energy sh*t that I think is really powerful. There is the usage of really these moments where you're tired of yourself that I think can play a huge catalyst in this journey. And you know, for me, when I was at my rock bottom 350 pounds, smoking two packs a day, drinking myself to sleep, I was like, dude, I am so done with myself right now, do something different. How do you leverage that energy while simultaneously loving yourself?

Sean: It's difficult. And in the beginning probably even through a lot of the one year that was the basis of this book, I didn't like, I was still miserable, but I was inching towards getting better. I became more appreciative of small things that I didn't notice before, and every time I started to pick up on it, you know, it was that little bit that kept me going was like, that's actually a really good point. And when I started listening to podcasts and reading books, it wasn't out of recommendation from others because like I said, I was trying to fix it on my own. So, I wasn't ready to talk about it, I couldn't handle what someone might tell me, which is the hard truths that we need like you said earlier, just get off your ass and go, we can't hear it like that a lot of the time, even though we should. So, when I started looking for podcasts, I was finding that I could relate to the sports people, the actors, the celebrities that were you opening up, like ---- Kevin Hart and Matthew McConaughey and the kind of celebrities that I was growing up watching. And these are people too, they have the same things at their level that I'm dealing with, that every, that we're dealing with. So, by hearing them talk about it, all of a sudden, I'm open to listening to Dr. Caroline Leaf and Mel Robbins and Gabor Maté and all of these other people because I felt more ready for what I should have heard in the beginning. But I didn't have that until I could relate to someone that I felt I was going through something similar.