The Journey to Healing CPTSD and Great Stories of Purpose

Finding PEACE In Surrender with Nick Cavuoto

Michael: How do you go from, I am feeling so abandoned and lost and seeking to fill this void to being like, oh, now I'm a father, I see the reflection of the experience of life and I'm grateful ‘cuz that's fucking insane.

Nick: So, the pathway for me on going from, I guess abandoned and broken and feeling lost and directionless from a place of where I was seeking maybe that pillar figure, that fortitude in someone else certainly life has a way of bringing us back to the road of self, right? And the deeper part of ourself, which is living an inspired life, which is just living in spirit. And I think that that's now the lens that I look through and what I've found is that safety and that security and who I am, and that's really where I guess this story lands, is I had to go through the experience of going like, man, what was I looking for? And I realized that my grandfather, my dad was an entrepreneur, a fourth-generation entrepreneur. My grandfather was third generation, so by the time my grandfather was in his seventies, he was the one who actually was like taking care of me the most. My mom went to college when I was a young kid and my dad was working 20 hours a day. So, my grandfather was the one who was really that anchor for me. And when I figured out in transition of like, that was always a void, it was like a movie in my head that I didn't want to keep playing and I couldn't figure out how to finish it with redemption; like redemption and gratitude are always tied together. I just had like how my life was normal and then what the explosion of life was, but I never had a new normal, and that's what brings gratitude is defining the new normal and the new normal for me in that story was understanding the qualities of my grandfather were the things that I needed to actually end up accepting about myself. So, although he may have been the visual anchor at that time, if he was there, I knew I would be what protected. He was the first one who came to me and said, he called me Nicki. Right. It's like old school Italian family. He's like, Nicki, you're gonna be a star. You're gonna be a star. Right. He was the one who spoken to my life from a very young age, and what I did was I had this moment of adopting his ideas in adopting his care and compassion, the character qualities of who he was, and then just embedding them into my life. And there was a sense of deep completion there, but also acknowledgement that those are parts of me that I had rejected for a long time, that then I took acceptance of and took on the identity of those elements as well because having four children, I need to be a protector. I need to stand in the gap in those moments. And that's how I found gratitude was through redemption and becoming the thing that I needed the most and finding that within myself.

Michael: Hmm. And that's healing, right? Because that's the space in which you actually discover who you are. And so, I have a bit of a hypothesis about like what it actually means to go down this journey and it always starts with acknowledgement, right? And you acknowledge, you look at it, you go, okay, this is fact, not hiding from it, not running across ‘cuz some people like misconstrue truth, but reality is reality and fact is fact. And so, if you can look at fact and acknowledge it, not with culpability, but just saying, yep, this is actually what happened. It gives you the ability to actually explore within that realm. And when you're exploring, you can step into discovery and when you discover, you actually get to let go and when you let go, you actually start to love and that fills to be like the sequence of events that leads down the path that gets you to where you want to go. And I think it's really fascinating that you said that your grandfather would be like, Nicki, you're gonna be a star because in a lot of sense, like you are, and some people, have the ability to embody that thing that other people see in them. When I was young, people used to call me, coach kids, my teachers, whatever. But here's what's interesting about it, Nick, they did it in a pessimistic and in a, you're a loser kind of way. Right. Oh man, whatever, coach, get away from here. Why are you always trying to help people? Blah, blah, blah, blah. And to me it was always looking at life and I was like, I just want people to understand what I understand and that's like, you can do whatever you want. Right. And even though my life was chaotic and I did a lot of really insane things, I did those things with clarity and I always proved to myself I was capable of doing them. And so, now you're in this position, you have this really similar journey where suddenly in whatever sense of the reality you live in, you are a star, right? You're building these amazing things around you, amazing relationships, amazing family, and yet somehow, even though you go through this building process, like the same thing that I experienced, you lose it all. And I think that, losing it all, one, I would love for you to go into that a little bit. And two, how do you rebound from that? Because I feel when most people hit that space of, I've lost everything that becomes their identity and that is the rest of their life?

Nick: Yeah. Oh man. I mean, I lost a million dollars in two days when we were met with the pandemic in March of 2020 and it was an interesting moment because I can recall it very, very vividly of just like how quickly those phone calls came in and how quickly everything that I'd worked for about five years previously that I was building just got decimated overnight. And there's a very deep realization of like what's important in that moment like all of it can just be taken away instantaneously, but I can't give back the time that I missed or the memories that I gained, whether they were positive in building or whether they were challenges that I overcame, it doesn't make a difference like you were met in that moment with like how life is truly like a paper and how the things that you build can be erased and demolished in an instant. And how at the same time you can stand in the gap and if you can be unbelievably present and stand in that moment, you can go like, okay, what do I believe? You know, ‘cuz events are always gonna happen in our lives and the path that most people take is those events are immediately followed by a feeling. So, if I lose a million dollars in two days, I'm a loser? That I have nothing to offer the world? That everything and everyone is out to get me? Hell no! Thankfully I had done the work to sit there and say, what do I believe? I believe that everything happening in and out of its season, it's here as a benefit to me. I believe that God has called me to be a conduit of the world, to give in one hand, to receive in the other, and to be a blessing to other people. I believe that every single person who comes into my life is for me and the ones who are not the life lessons will be learned. You know, I had to move into my beliefs as the filter of the emotions that I was experiencing. And here's the deal, the emotions of our life are treasured, like treasured part of human experience, they are so treasured that they should have a lock on them, that they should be protected and insulated ‘cuz that's the treasure of your life. So, I've just watched most people walk through life and what happens event, what does that determine? Their feeling. Ah, poor me. And they live a poor me life, they live a victim mentality, they live in that world of not enough and then their beliefs just confirm the emotions that they've already projected out into the world, that's the emotional return on investment is like if an event happens and your emotion follows, well, guess what? Your beliefs are gonna solidify your perspective. So, I found a better way, and I met with a Dallas monk who changed my life, I mean, this happened, he's 45 years a psychologist, incredible guy. And he said this, he said, if Nick, if you can replace after events that happened in your life, if you can replace those events, followed by your beliefs and not your feelings, it'll change your life. And that simple formula changed everything.

And so, in that moment, I was prepared to go like, where's my book with my beliefs? Where's my book of beliefs? Where is it? Because I had like 10, I'd write down, right? And in any moment when I felt like I was struggling, I would just go back to that book. I’d go back to that book; I'd go back to that book. And many things have happened since then and guess what? Those beliefs, they still stand true from two years ago, they still, almost three years ago, they still stand true. And so, that's my call really for people today is like you're gonna have events that are gonna happen in your life if you allow your emotions to immediately follow your events, you're always gonna be like a feather blowing in the wind, and you're always gonna allow the beliefs that you carry, which are really rooted in a lot of identity. Those things are gonna be solidified by the waves of your emotion. And so, my call to you is to allow your beliefs to be the grand filter of your life, to allow events to happen, cuz they always will. But my first question after a hard event is, well, what do you believe about this situation? So as long as it's rooted in truth, honesty, and integrity, and not criticism, comparison and judgment, you will find the life lesson very quickly and you will live a redeemed life.

Healing Trauma and CPTSD with One Powerful Tool with Lori Lee

Michael: What do you do with those thoughts when you are being curious about them, but it feels like a cloud over you.

Lori: To begin with do nothing with those thoughts. So, observe your thoughts, become curious about your thoughts because if you straight away implement a strategy, you are going to continue to beat yourself up when you don't implement those strategies. A lot of people that have stress are very type A people, so they set themselves these crazy goals like I am going to counteract every thought with an affirmation, but that just isn't the reality. But once you are pretty well versed at being curious about these thoughts, serving those thoughts, then move through to creating affirmations that you genuinely believe.

So, let's just say you're looking in the mirror and you decide, Ugh, I look terrible. You've observed these thoughts for a while, and now you're at a place where you're going to actually say, something that you like about your body, and if you can't think of anything aesthetic, then you need to think of something believable that your body can do. So, when stating affirmations, they need to be present tense and they need to be something that you actually believe you are capable of doing in the future, or capable of right now.

So, for you, that could just be, I am really grateful for my fingers because without them I wouldn't be able to type and do my job, it’s counteracting that with affirmations definitely is great, but I wouldn't necessarily recommend that straightaway. I would just recommend getting used to observing first.

Michael: Yeah. I think so. And when you do so, and this is again, just me speaking outta my own experience, cuz the negative thoughts were the only kind of thoughts I had like there was no space for positive thoughts. I think so many people go through this, especially if you've come from backgrounds of trauma, of abuse, of poverty, and we get stuck in that cycle. And the thing that people have to remember is like, there's always causation and correlation like there's always a rhyme and reason to why you're doing the things that you're doing. And when you can sit in that truth, like I think that's arguably the most important truth in this journey is just being like, there's a fucking reason that I'm doing this. And to honor that reason and to not beat yourself up. And also at the same time, and this is where it gets tricky, fucking do something about it because it's one thing to just sit in it and it's another thing to talk about it. And then there's like the, I need to do something about it because again, I'm only speaking my truth, looking at myself in the mirror, 350 pounds, smoking two packs a day, drinking myself to sleep. I was like, Okay, motherfucker, it is time to do something because guess what? Nobody else is gonna do it for you. And language is important and I think about this all the time, the way that I need to push myself may not be the way that you need to push yourself. Right. And I think we have to get really conscientious about that element because for me, the coddling game does not work there, that's not gonna help me at all. I'm like, Yo, get the fuck up, motherfucker. Like, let's go. And so, I'm really curious for you as you were in this, exploring these ideals, in these meditations, in these retreats, getting conscientious, looking at your life, probably literally in the mirror and assessing these changes, what was the language you were using with yourself?

Lori: That's a great question and you raise a really great point there in terms of like identifying those circumstances as to why you speak in a certain way but I gave myself hype, girl energy.

So, when you are training somebody, some people need a commando type person and I am very open. I am a cheerleader trainer. I will cheer you on. So, I'm the opposite to you. I need hype. I need to cheer myself on. Hype to me is just recognition and reinforcement. When I get outta bed a little bit earlier, well done, Lori. You did a great job. But not everyone needs that. That's a little bit overbearing and it's not inspiring to everyone equally with the commando style what you need, get outta bed, you piece of shit, that's not going to work for everyone either. For some people that's just going to be way too intense and way too, I guess, damaging even. But somebody, and I think about this a lot and I don't have an answer for you, but where is the line of pushing yourself and grinding versus resting and saying kind words to yourself? Because I love David Goggins. I'm not sure if anyone's read his book, Can't Hurt Me. I love it. However, the way that he speaks to himself, I'm like, Goodness, I would be so de-energized if I spoke to myself, but I really do need to harden the fuck up sometimes. So, it really is that balance of when to harden up, but then also, when am I being too hard on myself and when am I actually bringing negativity into this more fit?

Michael: That makes a lot of sense. And I think that it is about towing that line and figuring it out for yourself. Like I would never, ever call myself a piece of shit and I argue that no one probably ever should. To me it's looking at it from this aspect of I know what motivates me like I've done CrossFit for years, Muay Thai for years, in the CrossFit gyms where people are rah in the cheerleader mode, like you, I'm like, get away from me. Right? Like I cannot take it because for me, I'm like, I've gotta get in that place to motivate myself intrinsically ‘cuz I think one of the things people often forget is like after you're out of that rahrah, there's nobody there and you have to be able to do that for you. One of the things that David talks about, which I love and I get parallel to him quite frequently, is this concept of the idea of, you know, the cookie jar, which effectively means giving yourself accolades and admirations for the amazing things that you've done. And it's not always kicking your ass, sometimes it's like, Yo, I did that thing and that thing took me seven years and I finally did it and I'm really proud of myself and you've gotta be able to get into that because you know when you are not moving into those places of connectedness with goodness, with source, with power, with energy, with compassion, grace, hope like that just increases stress even more. And I think one of the reasons that happens is that people have these massive expectations of themselves, they're thinking about tomorrow, they're always stuck in the future and they're forgetting like, Man, I've done good things. And so, what I'm wondering is how does tomorrow thinking, how does like thinking about the future, you're trapped in that, how does that impact you, especially when you're dealing and navigating stress?

Lori: When you are thinking about yourself tomorrow, you are actually imagining your tomorrow self as a completely different person. So, by default, you are going to break the promises that you make to yourself. You are going to tell yourself, 5:00 AM I'm gonna wake up, I'm going to do a workout, I'm going to do a 40-minute meditation. And we put ourselves to this pedestal because tomorrow us is a different person, but guess what? You're still gonna wake up tomorrow with the same stress, the same energy levels, the same stuff going on in your life yet we don't think of it that way. So, we really need to dial it back and then create, you know, minimums and maximums for ourselves. If tomorrow was the best day ever, I had all the energy in the world, then I will do this. If tomorrow was the worst day ever, I woke up with a sniffle, these are the things that I can achieve and it really is that balance of figuring out what you actually can do tomorrow and remembering that you are not a different human tomorrow. You're the exact same person.

Michael: Yeah. So, what do you do when you want to move towards tomorrow, when you want to build goals? Because I'm very forward thinking, right? I always tell people my goals are 37 years away like, I'm not even remotely close to building the life that I want. But I think that's a really hard thing for most people to rationalize. So, how do you be you today, but also be you for tomorrow?

Lori: Yeah. I think it's great that you have 37-year goals, so that's what I would recommend zoom out a little bit. What kind of person do you wanna be in three years’ time? I think it's Vishen Lakhiani that said, in a meditation, we overestimate who we will be in one year however, we underestimate what we can do within three years. So, zoom out to three to five years what kind of person do you wanna be and what's required of you today in order to get there? If we write down our goals, we're 47% more likely to achieve them, but only 3% of people write down their goals and 1% of people revisit and rewrite their goals. So, I believe that we do need to take a structured approach, however, when we're creating that structure, especially on the micro levels. So, think of a day-by-day basis or a week-by-week basis set yourself ranges rather than saying, I'm going to go to the gym five times a week. Maybe it's, I'm going to go to the gym two to four times per week, or three to five times per week, because you need to get real yourself and understand where you are, but you can be idealistic and work towards that three-year version of yourself.

Healing Trauma Through Nature and Grounding: Expert Tips and Personal Journey with Clint Ober

Michael: And one of the things I think would be really important is if we can actually create some context and maybe definitions around a few of these words so we don't lose people as we get a little bit deeper. So, can you explain grounding to us?

Clint: Okay. First of all, the earth has a natural, what we call a negative surface charge. Negative means no charge means an abundance of free electrons, they're kind of like, it is a store of electrons. I mean, they're actually stored in on the surface of the earth. And so, we connect everything electrical to the earth so those free electrons can go up or down a ground rod and reduce charge. The most natural thing you can relate to would be lightning if there's a buildup of positive charge in the clouds, negative on the earth, then there'll be a fisher of lightning go up into the air, and then the electrons will go up or down in order to reduce that charge in the clouds. And then the rain comes and then it all dissipates and goes away. So, in the real world, like anybody working on electronic chips or software, gasoline, gunpowder, fireworks, any of those, they all have to be grounded when they're handling that. So, they don't create a spark from their clothing or something and create a fire.

So, grounding is about reducing charge, preventing ‘cuz charge can create a spark and create a fire. And it can create electrical noise and disturbances, you know, in the electronics and signals and TV signals and sound and all of those kinds of things. So, it's really about maintaining the electrical stability. So as long as something is connected to the earth then the earth will provide enough electrons automatically to prevent this noise or to prevent a fire. So, am I answering the question?

Michael: Yeah, that makes sense. What I'm curious about, so if the earth keeps us grounded, what came to mind as you were sharing this, I learned how to put computers together when I was about 15, and we always had to have the antistatic mats. And that's so we didn't fry the motherboard, so we didn't fry the hard drives. And what I'm wondering is like, are we constantly getting fried right now because we're so removed from being grounded to the earth? And if so, is that negatively impacting our health, our inflammation, our pain? 

Clint: Well, what grounding is about, what the discovery of the end effect of grounding is what we found was throughout all time, all living species on the planet were connected to the earth in some way either fish in the oceans, whatever, however we all got here, doesn't matter. But anyhow, we were always grounded and it's only been like, well, in reality, it 60 years ago we invented plastics. The first thing we did was put them on the soles of our shoes, carpet, our homes, and plasticized everything today, everything is plasticized to the point covered in plastic, to the point that, so what this plastic does is it insulates you from the earth when the human body is no longer naturally grounded.

To give you an example, it's too early for that. Okay. You know, throughout all time, throughout all time from all the way back to the beginning, we were naturally grounded our bodies evolved in a grounded state, and it was only 1960 or a few years before we invented plastics, the first thing we did, like I said, put 'em on the shoes and insulate our environments. So, all of a sudden, we lost our ground as a human, we no longer touched the ground and we didn't know it took us, you know, 10 years to paste all this together, but inflammation. The word inflammation was not in the English language in 2000. So, you know, 23 years ago, inflammation first entered the English language and inflammation, me is just what it says, inflame. And they referred to the body full of inflammation, the body is on fire. Okay? So that's what grounding's about is preventing fire.

So, anyhow, what we had to do is we learned early on that grounding reduced pain automatically. We did not know why, it took us six, seven years to figure that out. But we had to look at the body and look at, cuz nobody knew why grounding reduced pain. The only people that would even have a clue what was going on with the grounding would be somebody with an electronics background even like you said, grounding yourself to prevent static to fry a motherboard, same concept here. So, we're trying to prevent instead of frying a motherboard, frying the body. So, what happens is when you lose your ground, then your body's no longer negative other than that, you have a slight negative charge.

The key here is you can't have inflammation in a grounded object, whether it's a computer or a person, or an animal, or a plant, it's like, to give you an idea.

Inflammation doesn't exist in the wild animal population. It only exists in humans and animals that live indoors with their owners, that's the big giveaway. But nobody looks at it from that way I mean, we're nobody.

So anyhow, what we had to do is we had to trace down, so what in the body is causing inflammation? We know that by all we were doing is grounding the body and so it has earth potential or negative, this slight negative charge. Well, that negative charge is an abundance of free electrons that automatically move and reduce charge, it's automatic, it's just automatic earth, it's an automatic phenomenon. You don't have to do anything other than touch the earth. So, as time went on, we learned that neutrophils, white blood cells in the body, if you have an injury or a pathogen or you have a damage cell or something, the immune system releases or sends a neutrophil over to the site of the crime or the injury or whatever, and it releases what they call reactive oxygen species. Reactive means they're electrically charged, soon as we learned that, then we knew we were on the right path.

So, these electrically charged molecules, then, I mean so the neutrophil will wrap itself around a pathogen or a damaged cell and release these reactive oxygen species, and they will rip electrons from the damaged self or the pathogen and destroy it, that's how the immune system works; so, it's an electrical. So, then what we realized that when you have chronic pain in the body, it's like they say you have inflammation, body is on fire. So, what is causing the fire? So, what we learned was when you are ungrounded, no longer naturally grounded, then your body is short free electrons. You don't have an abundance of free electrons or an abundance of redox potential, so what happens is if there's any remaining reactive oxygen species after the initial oxidative burst, then those remaining radicals will go and rip an electron from a healthy cell and damage it, it sends a message back to the immune system something's still here getting us. So, the immune system sends another neutrophil it does and goes in fixes that problem, but in the process, it turns into a chronic loop, it's an autoimmune loop. The autoimmune system is automatically producing and creating reactive oxygen and trying to put out the fire but it's done its job. But in now, these excess radicals are oxidizing healthy tissue. So, the immune system now is trying to put out a fire that it itself is creating.

Reclaim Your Sexual Health and Well-Being with Dr. Judson Brandeis

Michael: And I would love to just dive in from a broad, high-level spectrum of like starting points and game points on just creating some change in health.

Dr. Judson: Yeah. I mean, that's the tough part ‘cuz we all know what to do. I mean, let's be honest. Don't drink, don't smoke, don't do drugs, don't eat too much, exercise every day, stretch, meditate a little bit and be nice to other people, like that's 99% of what you need to do. But why is it so hard? Right. It's hard because life isn't easy and there are a lot of stresses in life and there's a lot of pressure and we try to take shortcuts and we try to the coping mechanisms that we use and we get ourselves in trouble. And so, I think the best place to start really is to step back and say, you know, all this stuff isn't all that hard and we're all capable of doing it. But it's the determination and the motivation to get there, that's what really is difficult for a lot of folks. And so, I think this book really helps you get down into the details and it goes from the 99th percentile to the 100th percentile. But at the very beginning, we kind of all know what we need to do. And then the other part of it, and this is the first chapter in the book, and I know you talk about this a lot on your podcast which is really amazing, is the hero's journey. So, seeing yourself as the hero of your own journey, you know, Tiger Woods isn't the hero of your journey, Johnny Depp isn't the hero of your own journey, I mean, we just saw on TV like those people have problems just ‘cuz they're movie stars and they have a lot of money and they have attractive, you know, spouses or girlfriends that doesn't mean don't have problems. They got problems and sometimes even worse problems than you. So, just understand that you need to focus on your own problems and solving your own problems and let everyone else worry about their problems. And I think you know, that's the best place to start.

Michael: It's very true, and I mean, I think about, I go rewind, I look at my life and at 26 years old, here I am the heaviest I've ever been, drinking like a freaking fish and, and really kind of just hitting this rock bottom moment and going, this is my fault. Right. And not playing the victim and having the willingness to step into the healing journey. And that healing journey came in a lot of different ways. Prior to recording, we were having a little bit of off-air conversation and you did a little calculation for me and I thought to myself, this is really fascinating, what a great place to start the show and I would love if you would share that with us.

Dr. Judson: Sure. Well, you know, I talk to my patients about alcohol. And I don't tell people what to do, you can't tell a guy what to do. You tell a guy, listen dude, you gotta stop drinking. They'll look at you and say, screw you, you know, I don't care how many diplomas on you have on your wall I like drinking, you're gonna tell me that's gonna make me stop drinking so, I don't do that. What I do is I explain to my patients, what is alcohol? Okay. So, alcohol really is four things. First of all, it's very much ingrained in our society, right? So, when you're young, you go out with your guys and drink beer, and then when you're older and a little bit more sophisticated, you drink wine. And then when you get older than that and you go out with your old cronies, you drink whiskeys or bourbon or whatever, and you know, there are advertisements everywhere, you know, drink alcohol, but okay. What is alcohol? Alcohol is a classified as a depressant, that's the drug class that alcohol is in. Second of all, it disinhibits you. Okay? So, most of the stupid things that we do in our life are done under the influence of alcohol. Okay? And you know, every time I say that to someone, I just see them shaking their head like, yeah, okay. And third, alcohol is empty calories. And what that means is that alcohol is a fuel for the body, right? Creates energy, creates calories, but there's no nutritional value of alcohol. Okay. And so, by taking in those calories, you get fat, so what I typically do is I have my patient take out their iPhone and I say, go to the calculator's function. A glass of wine is 125 calories. If you drink two glasses of wine a night, or two beers or two drinks, that's 250 calories, you multiply that times 365 days then divide it by 3,500. So, there's 3,500 calories and one pound of human fat. And what you end up with is a number of 26, and what that represents is 26 pounds of new fat that you create every year by having two drinks a night or a day. So if you wanna lose 26 pounds and save a couple thousand dollars, stop drinking alcohol. And then people are like, well, okay, that, you know, now that you put it that way, maybe I'll stop.

Michael: Yeah. And I think that's such a great way to just look at it in general. I downloaded this app long time ago on old, like I probably was like the first iPhone and it was one of the very first quit smoking apps. And I mean, at this point I was off and on with it. Right. I'd quit the major like back and forth all day long chain-smoking habit, right? But there was still like, man, I'm out with the friends, or I'm here in this situation or this triggering experience, I would just grab a cigarette. So, I started downloaded that app and what I realized is that I was saving, like $2,000 a year just on not smoking.

Dr. Judson: Well, do you know how many years of life you'll lose by smoking?

Michael: Probably too many, right? 

Dr. Judson: Well, so it's quantifiable. So, I had this patient, 57-year-old periodontist, right? So, a guy should know better, but he had a tough life, you know, he came over from another country, put himself through dental school, driving a cab at night, and his vice, his coping mechanism was smoking. And he had tried a bunch of different things to stop smoking, but you know, I kind of knew it was half. And so, I talk about it a little bit and then I said, you know, you have two daughters. Do you like your daughters? He said, oh, yeah, I love my daughters. My daughter's so great. Okay, do me a favor. Take out a piece of paper and write 13 years of life lost two times. And then I want you to put that up on your daughter's doors, their bedroom doors, just tape it up there so that every time you walk into their rooms, you're gonna realize that you're gonna lose 13 years of your life with them by continuing to smoke. I don't want you to do acupuncture or Wellbutrin or hypnosis or any other that crap. And month later he came back, he said, you know what? You're right, I'm gonna stop smoking. Right. I mean, I just gave him the fact that he's gonna lose 13 years of his life by continuing to smoke. He knew better, but I gave him a reason to stop smoking.

Michael: Yeah. I think you need that, like, for lack of a better phrase, like that coming to Jesus moment. And for me, and I look at that and that's one of the things that I'll teach my clients, you know, a great analogy that I will use is like, especially if they're married and they have children, go, do you want to see your child get married? Do you want to see them walk down the aisle? Do you wanna meet your grandchildren? Because if the answer is no, just keep doing what you're doing, you'll be fine. And that could be smoking, drinking, diet, whatever. And if the answer is, I want that, it's like a dude, it's like a baseball bat to the face. And I remember, I was on this hike with friends, we had flown out to Mount Rainier and in the Seattle area in the Pacific Northwest and we're climb, I guess a Portland area and we're climbing and halfway through I was like, I think I'm having a stroke, and it was like fucking 26 years old. And it was because of how poorly I was taking care of my body. But I think, you said coping mechanism and I wanna rewind to that because now as someone who has done this work, and for you, someone who understands this work. Why does that work that way? Like I've always wondered this, and I know it's a very vague question, but why do coping mechanisms work and how do they work?

Dr. Judson: Well, I mean, I think they work in the short term, right? So, you drink alcohol, you're disinhibited, you kind of forget your problems or you smoke, you get a surge of adrenaline through nicotine or you know, sometimes I've had a really rough day or some crap happens at home. You know, I got four teenagers and a wife so, there's always, not always, but you know, there's plenty of drama to go around. And at 10 o'clock I'll take out my Häagen ice cream and have a bowl of ice cream cuz sugar perks me up. Right? That's a coping mechanism. I mean, I like ice cream, but sugar helps. So, I mean, we all have our coping mechanisms, but to make those coping mechanisms healthier, I mean, one of my coping mechanisms is exercise, right? And that's a healthy coping mechanism.  You know, people do drugs to kind of escape, but you know, once you come down, wherever you go, there you are.