The Secret to Attracting Your Soulmate | with Sami Wunder

Michael: Sami Wunder, I'm so excited to have you on the podcast today to talk about really the dynamics of relationships and dating and love and sexuality and all the things that come along with this journey We're on as humans to talk about vulnerability and emotional connection and to really break down how somebody. Can step into that level of really, I dare call it achievement in their relationships and in their lives. So thank you so much for being here. I'm super excited to have this conversation today.

Sami: Thank you for having me.

Michael: First and foremost, obviously, how did you get into this? What is your background? What is your journey? What is Sami's life leading up to now helping thousands and thousands of people find love?

Sami: Yeah, so I come from India and I was born in Professional middle class, hardworking family. But my parents were professors and we were two sisters and, back then and I think even till today, India is pretty like still a very patriarchal country, and if you're two sisters and you're two girls, you Usually get very different set of opportunities versus men or boys. But I'm so lucky to say that we were blessed with parents who were very supportive of our dreams and our careers. And of course that always has a flip side to it, which meant that my parents were very supportive of be a go getter, develop your intellect make something out of your life. Get a good job, get a good career, but that also meant today. I know this back then. I did not know this, that I grew up not being in touch with my feminine side, not being in touch with my feelings. I felt feelings were weak. I felt like showing emotion was something that weak people did. And that kind of upbringing just makes you a go getter. And so I was a gold medalist economist in India's top college. Then I got a full scholarship for my master's and I came to Germany. And that is where I started to pay attention to my love life because I had throughout my childhood seen my parents not have a very healthy and loving marriage. And for some people that could mean that they would shy away from love. And they would shy away from marriage. They would say that stuff is not for me, but it had the opposite impact on me. I was like, I've seen, before a board exam, like before your A Levels, what it feels like when your parents are fighting, and what that does to your emotional and mental being and how harmful that is. I saw that both my parents were good people, and they were so disconnected with each other, and it was so painful to watch them being so lonely while still being together. Feeling so unseen, so unheard. And as a child, you love both your parents and you just go they're wonderful people, but they just seem to not be able to get along.

And there is no love in this marriage. But in my case, it propelled me to pay attention to this part of my life. I was like, I know the cost of being in a wrong relationship. I know the cost of being in a wrong marriage. I know the toll it can take on you mentally and emotionally. And so it's super duper important for me to figure out this aspect of my life and to get it right. So this was like me at just 21 years of age. I think sometimes we take so long to, really get decisive and invest in doing the inner work in our love life and in our prioritize our romantic relationships. But for me, it happened really young. I would say 21 years of age, I came to Germany. I started dating and it was a disaster. And when I tell people, they're like, why, you're a reasonably attractive woman. You're a kind person. You have a good heart, you're well educated, like what was going on? And that was the question I was also asking myself. And long story short, happy to share more about, my dating disasters, but long story short, I in my heartbreaking experiences that I had my walls up and I was so much in my masculine energy that all I knew was how to be strong and be independent and there was literally no place for a good man to enter my life and be needed and be wanted and be respected in my presence. And so I turned all of that around. I learned about it. I turned it around within a year. I went on such a massive. inner transformation that my love life, turned around by a full 180. Suddenly I was dating all these empowered, masculine, healthy men, taking me out, treating me like a queen. And that is when I attracted my husband. He proposed to me within nine months and we ended up living in Paris. He was working for the European space agency back then. And that is when I saw An advertisement on Facebook that said, do you have a message that has changed your life that you would like to share with others? And do you know that you can become a professionally trained coach and share that message more, in a coherent structured way? And that is what changed my life. I decided to train as a coach and, get professional coaching skills. And then I knew I wasn't the only woman who was smart, successful, but was having a hard time with love. And I developed a process to show women the six steps that I took to have this kind of massive turnaround in my love life. And ever since then, there's been no looking back, I've been doing this for almost a decade. Now I have thousands of success stories and eight figure love coaching brand that I have built. And I just really feel like I'm living my purpose on this planet and sharing my gifts.

Michael: I love that. As you’re talking about watching your parents relationship and this lack of feelings and them being weak, I was like, Oh yeah, I know exactly why your dating life was a disaster. And I think so frequently, and trust me, I have my own stories there as well, I think so frequently we fail to realize and really understand the implications of what it means to be raised in households with love, without feelings, without affection, with, this is the way that you act and this is how you should be and the impact of that in our adulthood, because we're ultimately always going to be the sum total of all of our experiences, right? So everything that we bear witness to in childhood, it gets ingrained in us, right? It gets implemented in us. We pay attention to it. We've for whether it's good or bad, decide that is the way that we should behave in the world. So to have your feelings turned off to be in masculine energy, which I'll probably have you define here in a second as well, and to also be pushing towards high achievement while you would look at those things in childhood and think these are great. This is how you navigate the world. The world. It's but in adulthood and especially when seeking a relationship and love and compassion, like it's actually a giant magnet of the polar opposite. It just pushes everybody away. I'm so curious as you were. As you were in this and you're like, starting to notice was there a moment? Because I think this is what happens for a lot of people. This is what happened for me in dating too. There was a moment where I sat and I realized, I was like, oh, the reason this isn't working is because of me. And it was like just so abundantly clear. And that takes a lot of guts. First and foremost, I think you gotta have some courage to look in the mirror. Was there a specific moment for you where you're like, wait a second, I'm the problem.

Sami: Yes, absolutely. So my transformation point was, I think when I was having all these heartbreaking experiences, men fizzling out, ghosting, things not working out, just like guys wanting to just take me to bed, not wanting to get to know me as a person. I just said, men are intimidated. Men are intimidated by my brains. Men are intimidated by my success. Men are intimidated because I have an opinion. It was my narrative to protect myself. It was my narrative to not look deep within myself, because when we put the problem on the other side, at least we can absolve ourselves of it. Personal responsibility, but it was when I met a man who was far more successful than I was. And, he was a lawyer from New York and there was like electric physical attraction and he treated me so well and everything was going great. And then two months down the connection his effort started to dwindle, like stopped hearing from him. And of course my feminine intuition said, if he's not messaging, he's not interested, but I had, I was surrounded by all these equally masculinized German girlfriends who were like, come on, text him. He just wants to hear from you and figure out what the problem is and solve the problem and, take it ahead. And so I remember messaging him and saying, Hey, is everything okay? I haven't heard from you. And him going, You're so lovely. You're so attractive. I like you so much. I just Don't feel it. I just feel like our connection is not deepening, and so I don't think it's working and I think that was my moment of, pure heartbreak. I think I went into this angry, bitter energy for two hours that evening where I was like, all men are like this and I eat guys and I'm gonna like just get it. Super successful. And I don't need a man. And I'm not gonna like even look at this aspect of my life. It's not working. And then I woke up the next morning and I was like, Sammy, you are the common denominator in all of these experiences and don't give up on love because I think love is that thing in life that really brings us to our knees and, And we feel extremely vulnerable in love. I think success is so much easier to achieve because you can push through and control so much more than you can in love, because in love, there is another party involved and they may or may not want to be with you. They may or may not like you. And that involves rejection and rejection involves vulnerability and we all resist vulnerability. And so that was the day when I woke up and I was like, no, I'm not going to give up on love. I know I have a very good heart and I know the man who's gonna really get to experience the real Sami is going to be so lucky. And I'm going to work for that. I'm going to work to bring out that real Sami. And of course, it was a journey because the men I was attracting before I did. The inner work and before I, which today I call my six-step love success framework, today I call it that. But back then, I understood that I was just. Showing up with a mask and dating, I had a mask on and I had walls up and nobody could really experience the real Sami. It was just like the strong, successful facade. It was the impression I wanted to give men. And so, the work involved, putting that mask down. And letting the man in front of me see the true me, even if it felt uncomfortable, even if it felt scary, even if it brought up fears of judgment and rejection.

Michael: Sami, one of the things that you said I want to go back into, cause I think it's actually incredibly important. And I think it's one of the things that may help a lot of people who are listening, particularly to this show. Growing up in traumatic households, growing up in abusive households, growing up in households without love or bearing witness to love or seeing this idea of love not really exist or not feeling valid or worthy of it, so many people give up on it. They're just like, I don't want to deal with this, I'm not deserving. I'm not worthy, no one will ever love me. I personally have had that experience when I was younger before really stepping into and doing the work. And I'm so curious for people who are already giving up or have given up on love, how do we help them?

Sami: Okay, so I think what really works for my clients is to depersonalize experience of love first and foremost. So let me explain that. Love feels very personal. Rejection feels very personal. The concept of worthiness and not being good enough feels very personal. The idea of putting yourself out there and not being liked or not being attractive to some people that you like, can feel very personal. So what is important is to depersonalize this whole intimidating idea of love and start to approach it from the perspective of a skill set that you can develop. So put the emotions aside and ask yourself, what are some skills I can develop that will help me show up as a healthy partner that will help me show as a confident dater and help me see, and evaluate the other party also from those. Principles and also from that skill set. So, for me personally, I put my emotions aside and I developed the skill set of confidence. I developed the skill set of showing in my feminine energy I developed the skill set of speaking my truth. I developed the skill set of drawing my boundaries I developed the skill set of authenticity and so when I started to approach everything as a skill set It was more exciting. It felt less intimidating and it actually felt like I could make progress and I could win and I could put a tick mark on my checklist of, I have this skill set, I have this skill set, I have this skill set. So, I think for me that really worked because I think we overcomplicate love. There's so much advice on the internet about relationships. And I think the reason why my process works, I work with women, it's because I really. Make love objective. I presented from an angle off. What are the skills we can develop to be a healthy partner to show up as a healthy date for the man we are with? And what are some healthy principles we want to look out when we're choosing a partner? And then what are some skill sets to develop to be healthy in a relationship to communicate in a healthy way in a relationship to speak your truth in the relationship? And so, everything feels less personal. And more like a skill set that one can cultivate.

Michael: That's such an interesting way to look at it because I can see how that can be powerful, right? Because I often think about mutually for both men and women. What is the number one trait of attracting this right? And it's generally speaking, not physical, right? But when you talk about the thing that someone else brings to the table, Nine times out of 10, it's confidence, right? Because we all want to be around someone confident who sees themselves, who believes in themselves. And I think that's where the inner work like really shows up and you can tell who has done it and who has not. And I coach people of all varieties, men, women, everyone in between. And whenever we're talking about dating and relationships, the one thing I'm always saying to them is if you can't sit in front of someone and make eye contact with them, you will never go on a second date with them. Because that confidence element is so unbelievably important. And to get to the place that you love yourself, and find yourself worthy of love. I think it comes through like the actions of building up who you are, like, who do you truly want to be? And then taking that and looking at it from a practical standpoint, which I love the way that you frame it because very much, they are skill sets. Vulnerability is a skill set. Authenticity is a skill set. Good dates are a skill set, right? And obviously we can go down a lot of different paths with that, one of the things that is so important about those skill sets is they also present the opportunity for polarity, right? This thing that is so unbelievably important in the human dynamic. And so I think in order really to understand that first, can you define a couple of things for us? Cause I really want people to understand this. When I understood this, it changed my life forever. And that genuinely. One, what is polarity? Two, what is masculine and feminine energy? And three, how do those three things all intersect with each other?

Sami: Okay, sure. Great questions. So polarity is just one step in my six step process. So, it's one of the skill sets we can develop to have a healthy romantic relationship. So, what is polarity? Polarity is the presence of polar opposite energies. So, in the world of energy, there is the masculine energy, which is the penetrative force in the universe. It is the action, it is the doing, it is the forward movement, it is the giving, it is the planning, it is the logistics. It's about the future, it's about structure. And then there is the feminine, which is the receiving energy. So this is about emotions, this is about the present moment. This is about being able to receive from the masculine because the masculine has something to offer and the feminine can receive, receive that. So when we talk about polarity and romantic relationships, what really goes on is that, for the women that I work with, for example, these are professional women, career oriented women, ambitious women, and they are, Embodying a lot of masculine energy, because that is what has what life has required out of them in order to get to where they want to be. So if they are at top level, positions, their engineers, their doctors, they've had to work really hard. They've had to push their way through life. They've had to pass many exams, many interviews, drive, like they can do it all because that's what life required out of them. And here's the interesting thing. What are they attracted to? They're attracted to masculine embodied men because at their core, they're women, at their core, their nature is feminine. It's, it wants to be taken care of. It wants to receive, it wants to be protected. It wants to be cherished, but that's not the life they have lived. So, in their careers, they're extremely in the masculine. However, in their love life, they want a man who is bigger than them. Who is better than them, who can look after them, who can give, who can do, who can provide. But here's the irony of it. You cannot attract an empowered, masculine man while still being in your masculine energy. Because by the definition of if attraction, sexual tension is created in a relationship when there is the presence of polar opposite energies or polarity, then if you show up in your masculine and you want a masculine empowered King, you're just pushing and repelling those men away, right? Like they're not attracted to mask. They're not attracted to a female body with masculine energy with that masculine spirit. So often we think that a woman who is wearing high heels and a pretty red dress and has a red lipstick on and a Prada bag, sitting at a bar, she's in her feminine, but that's not true at all. You could be wearing a red dress and have red lips and looking completely 10 on 10. And when a man approaches you, you could still have very thorny energy. You could still have a very egoistical energy. You could still not be warm. You could still not be inviting. You could still have walls up. You could still be argumentative. He offers to buy you a drink and you say, I can do it myself. It's so interesting that my client, she has this issue that she shows up in her masculine and wants to attract the masculine. And what we teach is that if you want to show up. In your masculine energy and you insist on showing up in your masculine as a woman, you're going to attract more feminine embodied men. Now, this is not a judgment. This is not a judgment. I think there are some people who will be better off with those men, but let's just talk to, what creates real sexual desire, real sexual tension, real attraction between a man and a woman. And that is the presence of those polar opposite energies. And this is true for men as well. So of course the more you are laid back and the more you are not in your full masculine force, the more you will attract, women who are in their masculine, because you're more in your feminine, but you want to attract a feminine woman. So if you want to attract a more feminine embodied woman, a more receiving resting woman, then you have to step up more in your masculine force. And the beauty of polarity is that when you have that in a relationship, the fire, the spark that so many relationships miss. They will always be there. So, my husband and I, we've been together, we're going to be celebrating 11 years until today, 11 years of being married. And, till today, he's just smitten. He's just it's so funny to watch, he's just like crazy about Sammy. And he will do everything for Sammy and he will, carry me and love me and bring me gifts and spoil me. And it's because. When I decided to let go of my masculine, and I decided to be vulnerable and just be and be okay with being imperfect, letting a man see my imperfections, letting a man give to me, do for me, and just being, becoming that receiving container, it was then that I started to attract more keen kind of men, because earlier I just was attracting takers. I was so much in my masculine. I was trying too hard doing too much and it was attracting just the wrong type of men.

Michael: Yeah, that's like a master class right there. I wrote a couple of notes as we went through one that I want to touch on that I think is incredibly important is that sometimes energy is a survival mechanism and you don't realize it, for many people, depending on how they grew up, the energy that they bring into their dating life for men and women alike can be really indicative what childhood was like for many women, growing up without a father figure in the home, especially if you're in the West, like I am you have to learn how to do everything on your own. You have to learn how to be the man of the house. And then that carries over in this way that you become, super productive, you're crushing it in business, maybe you're super fit, like you have the dream house and the dream car by the time you're 25. And then next thing you know, you're 40 dying alone with a dog because you've had so much of a wall up. And then on the opposite of it, sometimes you have these men who they have to be deeply into their feminine energy because they're raised by women. Again, I think a lot of this problem is a lot of men not being present. And then you have these men who are very much in their 40s. Feminine energy who don't know how to take charge, who don't know how to lead, who don't know how to have confidence, who are our pushovers, who don't have boundaries. One of the things I work on with so many men, and again, this isn't judgmental. This is a byproduct of the life that has been created and led for us by our parents and their parents. This is just, unfortunately, as much as it impacts us, it's a domino effect, right? And I noticed in my journey, having been raised by a woman and women and feminine energies and not really having any safe, secure, masculine men in my life, growing up, I, and so many of my friends, which is such an interesting thing, fell deeply into our feminine energy, not knowing how to lead, not knowing how to set up dates, not knowing how to like open car doors and little shit that maybe doesn't matter, but really does. And it was when I stepped deeper into that and I was like, wait a second, why is it that when I'm in my energy now, having been doing this work for well over 15 years, and I'm deeply into being a man, as I define what it means to be a man, I attract the woman that I'm attracted to, but it's, what's so fascinating. And I can, you could set your watch by this. It's so accurate, when I see guys who are in masculine energy, who are dating women who are also in their masculine energy, it is this, it is pure war and it doesn't work. And the polarity is so important, but you have both sides have to be willing to be vulnerable. Because if you're not, and this was the biggest eye opener to me, because there's levels of vulnerability, but you have to have boundaries with yourself about what that looks like, because nobody wants just trauma dumped on them to build these relationships on the backside of the worst thing that ever happens, but here's what's so fascinating. And I know this is something you talk about, like choosing vulnerability and emotional connection is about letting go of your ego, is about letting go of that power struggle and about creating a bond, how do you navigate vulnerability? Like from both sides to create connection instead of it being something that we avoid because of fear.

Sami: I think mature, emotionally mature individuals will first and foremost look beyond physical attraction in dating, and they would understand the importance of long term compatibility, values being a match, et cetera. So I think when you are meeting somebody who has done the inner work, their radar is already healthy and they are not just looking for physical attraction. They're also evaluating for emotional intelligence, vulnerability values. How does this person respond when they are angry? Are they safe when even when they are angry? I think my guy friends would always tell me that, Sammy, when she's angry, it's not that she's going to mince her words, but she's still safe. She doesn't hit below the belt. She doesn't emasculate. She doesn't go mean and say crazy things, she'll just express that this upsets her and we can deal with that, right? So those are the signs that, people are. giving to each other in early dating. And I think in early dating, it's so much about energy recognition, like I sit here in the presence of an embodied masculine man, and I can surrender, I can trust that you will lead this conversation in the direction it has to go. So, there's an energy recognition that happens when the people who've done their inner work meet because they can see the energetic values. Those two people are embodying, towards each other. Now, in terms of vulnerability can be high value or low value. Okay. And again, it's not a judgment. It's about understanding that when somebody, you first meet them, if you start to reveal all your childhood trauma, or you start to reveal, that you are, you have a sexually transmitted disease. It's too much. It's too much, because the emotional bond has not formed. So, what I tell my clients is you have to understand timing with vulnerability, like vulnerability is something that grows with time. When Somebody has to earn your trust and keep earning your trust. And then you keep opening up to them in gradual degrees. So, in the beginning of dating, like date one and two, we're looking at very light vulnerability. We're looking at more authenticity than vulnerability. We're looking at you being comfortable in your own skin, you being okay with your body, you being okay with the fact that you have a really nasty boss. And you can talk about that, you being okay with the fact that you had a really hard day at work, you being okay with sharing with your date that it's nothing dramatic, but it's just my brother and I, we had a bit of a tip this morning and it's still playing on me, so you keep it light, but you keep it authentic. That's vulnerability for early dating and that's high value. And then as the connection progresses, the intimacy progresses, and that is when you can start opening up more and more. So, if you told somebody that you have you're not getting along with your ex and you were married three times and here's why all the marriage is broken. You reveal all of that on date. Number one, I can promise you that you'll never see that person again, because if they're healthy, they can already feel the energetic disconnection here because it's too much too soon. However, if you reveal the same information, eight dates down the line, 12 dates down the line, now there is an emotional basis. There is a foundation of effort. There is a foundation of mutual interest. You guys have been meeting each other. The connection has been growing. And now when you share this, it actually becomes a gift. It becomes a gift. The other person really values it, because they have been investing their time and energy in you. So, I always tell my clients, like I had one of my clients, she was so ashamed of the fact that she had her piece. And she was like, I feel, I really feel bad, when I go on dates, because I'm like, at some point I have to reveal this, it's, dishonest, otherwise not to reveal it to the person I'm dating. And I was like, just build a connection first, go on five dates first. And earlier she would just say it on the first date and never see the men again. And then she just faced herself with the vulnerability a bit. And then I think around date five or six, she shared it. And the guy was like, that's fine. Thank you for sharing. You're still a very beautiful and lovely person. I would still like to, continue this connection with you. So I think there is emotional intelligence in the timing of our vulnerability and how much we reveal and what we reveal and the best way to do that is to do it in micro doses over time because when two people keep meeting over time, they're investing their time and energy in each other. That is a sign of interest, and that is where the emotional connection can deepen. Now, vulnerability is also low value when it's badly timed, but also vulnerability is low value when it is for example at a bad location. For example, if you have a really strong response emotionally to something, but it's the date's birthday party and his entire family and friends have gathered, and then you feel like you're in order to be vulnerable, you must just say what you feel in front of everybody, and just disrespect the guy in public. That's not vulnerability. Sometimes we think that, we have this blanket image of vulnerability, and I think vulnerability, healthy vulnerability is so much more nuanced than just, speak your feelings. Speak your feelings, speak your truth. And one more thing we can add, which I teach in my programs, is that we often think of vulnerability as something negative. It's like sharing a negative emotion, sharing a negative experience. Sharing a hardship sharing a challenge and all of that is true. Vulnerability is also positive. When I feel childlike excitement for my travel or when my friends in London invite me, to a really fancy restaurant for dinner because Sami's coming, I let them see my happiness. I'm like, Oh my God, this is gorgeous. Are you guys serious? Thank you. This is amazing, and so, I think so often we just see vulnerability as injecting like our negative feelings into a dating scenario. But what if you also paid attention to injecting positive emotions because vulnerability, after all, is allowing the other person to see us and we're not just negative, we are also shaped by the positive and we can also have extremely uplifting emotional responses to situations. And sometimes when we have a trauma past or we are not connected with our feeling states. Not only do we suppress the negative emotion, we also suppress the positive emotion. So, I tell my clients, I talk about this in my elevate program, which is like my six-month group coaching program. And we help women magnetize empowered, masculine men, they're single women. And I talk about this energy of being the lighthouse, the magnetic lighthouse. And that magnetism is born from our ability as women to feel our feelings and to feel our feelings in the presence of men and men love our emotions healthy men love our emotions. So, what happens is when you meet a woman who is suppressed because of her trauma because of her past because of her childhood because of not valuing her feelings, you as a woman. As a man, you will experience her as flat, she will not make you feel anything. And so, we talk about the power of expressing your positive emotions as well, not just your negative ones, and they're still both vulnerability.

Michael: Yeah, that's spot on. And I think that goes on both sides too, right? Because there have been periods of time in my life where I have been called a wall. And that's because I was just so shut down emotionally. And one of the things that I've I really put an importance on and the people that I coach is creating the space for them to feel all of their emotions because if you can't feel all of your emotions, I promise you won't feel any of them. And so it's like, how do you navigate both anger and sadness, but joy and happiness and everything in between and recognize really that it's okay. And what's so difficult about that is if we've been shut down or worse told not to be emotional or your experience growing up as a child, don't cry, feelings are weak, man. That plays such a role in who it is that you become. And when you are paying attention to your life, which is, I think the intersection of growth, when you're actually like sitting and looking at your life and you're like, why can I not connect with anyone? I can. Almost guarantee you that it's because you're not even connecting with yourself first. And so, when you think about this concept of vulnerability, which is so important and to some extent, it's a bit of a buzzword right now, people are like, be vulnerable. And I'm like, maybe it's about doing it, like you said, in the right timeframe, and it's a time and risk tolerance that you're making whenever you're stepping into that. And it's about paying attention or as I often tell my clients, reading the room dude, you can't say crazy outlandish shit in the middle of a funeral. You know what I mean? It's read the room, and a lot of people don't do that, and they're like, I have to speak my truth, it's maybe not right now. That might be able to wait. But then on the other side, you have people who they won't speak their truth ever because they have equated vulnerability to rejection, which is. It's something we all go through, like we all suffer through vulnerability, equaling rejection at some point, because that's just the nature of the world. And sometimes you're going to share things and people will reject it. And as much as it sucks, like that's going to happen whether you've been married for 11 years or for 11 days. And I think people need to understand that and understand that it's. Not always necessarily to be taken personally, and I think that there's something in there that's so inherent to our human experience where it's if you can just take a step back and understand that everyone knows the same that you do, which is nothing in comparison to the world that we live in, there's a little bit of freedom in that. It's if you can just sit down and be human with another person, there's freedom, but here's what I'm getting to. Like that feeling of being heard, being seen, being connected, especially in relationships and creating the dichotomy between intimacy and sex and connection and all the things that we seek often more often than not lie on the backside of like tremendously difficult conversations. And I think that so many people have difficulty having conversations with the people that they love for two reasons. One, the fear of rejection, and then two is the fear that they're going to disappoint the other person. So you're 11 years into a marriage. I imagine there's some difficult conversations that you've had. I think it's the cornerstone to actual intimacy is difficult conversations. How do you navigate that? Like, how do you navigate sitting down and telling the truth to the person that you care about the most?

Sami: I think it takes two to tango, so you can't have a conversation with yourself. So it takes a partner who is willing to listen and engage. And what I found in the early years of my marriage was that Chris would just get up and walk away because he couldn't take the discomfort of what I was saying. And so I just sent him a WhatsApp saying, I remember this moment, I think this was back 2014 or 15. I said to him, honey, this is the third time in the, on the weekend that you just get up and you walk away and leave me feeling abandoned just because you don't agree with what I say, or you don't like what I say, or what I say triggers you or brings up your defenses. And he said to me thank you for sharing that with me, and this was all on WhatsApp, because I think he found it easier to communicate on WhatsApp without listening to my voice and without feeling like a failure in front of me. And he said to me, I just, I want to see you happy and I want to see, I want you to see me as a hero and when you are upset, it feels like I'm failing and it's very difficult for me to deal with that. And I said, even then, I need you to sit with the discomfort of that feeling and not abandon me. Because for me, I feel unloved when you just walk away and you're not talking like we need to sit through the discomfort. So I think the willingness to sit through the discomfort of a difficult conversation is really the number one way of showing love. I see it as love. I am a very busy woman. I'm a CEO, I'm a mom, and I literally don't have a lot of time and bandwidth. So today, if I am willing to sit and share my feelings with you, you must be really important to me. So, I always tell my clients that when somebody is willing to have a difficult conversation with you, they actually care about you, they love you. They care about the relationship because the easiest thing to do is to walk away, the easiest thing to do is to not engage, the easiest thing to do is to hold back your feelings, make up your judgments, and Judge the other person, conclude it's not working, and walk away. If we spend the time to sit and share our feelings, we are, the other person, the other party should receive it as a sign of great honor towards them, and a great respect towards them. And, Chris and I have now cultivated this habit where we just sit through the discomfort, we just sit on the sofa. And we sometimes just sit there silently because we're both hurting and we both don't agree with each other, but we sit there, we don't leave each other. We don't ditch each other, we don't walk out on each other. And I think any long term relationship that wants longevity has to cultivate the skill, it's all skills, right? Like you can just, so he told me the other day, he's can you notice I'm sitting through the discomfort? And I said, yes, you are well done, and I think, for me, the biggest reframe around difficult conversations is this, I have a little story to share if we have the time.

Michael: Yeah. Okay.

Sami: So, there is this story about this little girl and she's seven years old and she still sleeps with a little bear, okay. And then she gets invited to a sleep, sleep date with her girlfriends and everyone's collecting and they all collect. And she knows that she cannot sleep without her bear. So, she takes her bear in her suitcase. But the whole time during the birthday party, she's extremely worried, and she is feeling a lot of shame coming up what are her girlfriends going to say when she pulls out the bear at night, because they're all going to make fun of her, they're all going to call her a sissy, they're going to be like, what, you're seven years old and you still sleep with your bear? And she couldn't enjoy the party because she was so obsessed with these thoughts. And then came night time. Everyone put on their pajamas, brushed their teeth, and it was going to be like a big night party. All the mattresses were laid out. And then she just, she knew she couldn't sleep without the bear. So, she was ready for shame. She was ready for the mocking, the laughing, the ridicule. And she walked towards her suitcase. And she took a deep breath, and she pulled out her bear to sleep. And then she looked with dread at everybody else's faces, just like wanting to melt into a puddle. But that didn't happen. Nobody laughed, nobody made fun of her. Instead, they all walked to their suitcases. And in that moment, they understood, she understood that, owning our feelings, owning who we are, being true to our experience, gives the other person the permission to be true to their experience as well. And this is the power of difficult conversations. It's like when I give myself permission to really go deep within myself and honor my own emotions, even though I know it risks rejection from my husband, judgment from my husband, maybe an argument with my husband, it also gives him the permission to enter that deep state with me. It also gives him the permission to access his truth in front of me. And in that, accessing both parties can go deeper. We can become better friends. We can become better partners. We can create a more, I see you, I hear you. I got to experience for each other. Just like those little girls did, like one girl having the courage to go to pull out her feelings to pull out her teddy bear and to face her difficult feelings, gave everybody else in the room to do the same. They all had bears. They were just scared like she was, but she took the lead. And she was the courageous one. And so, I always say the person who is ready to have the difficult conversation and start the difficult conversation is actually leading the way and inviting the other party to do the same. So, we're actually, we love each other. We care about each other and we can create such a deepening of our connection if we can both, just access our truth in the presence of each other.

Michael: Yeah, I mean, what a great parable for life, and In past relationships of not having difficult and the most dangerous conversation you can have is the one that you're not having. And it's so funny how that when you step into vulnerability, really true vulnerability with someone you will find out pretty much immediately whether or not they actually care about you, because if they're going to be there and show up and be present and allow you the space, or if they fully reject you or worse, if you ever, and this is for everyone, if everyone says, that doesn't matter. Don't talk to me about that. You just need to walk away because I promise you that will not be the last time you're not unheard. There's so much value in all of this and really a masterclass and in love and relationships. And I think so much of it. For all of us starts internally with finding out and getting clarity about who we are, what we want to create and co create, and ultimately the willingness to have these hard conversations and to look at life through understanding that we can fill all of these emotions and create a beautiful experience. Even if we had nothing but terrible dates for a really long time on a long enough timeline, you can find what you're looking for. I believe that to be true. I don't think of myself as an anomaly of this. I don't think you're an anomaly of this. I just think sometimes we need guidance, right? We need someone who has walked that path before us. This has been an awesome conversation, Sami. Thank you for being here. Before I ask you the last question, where can everyone learn more about you and what you do?

Sami: Okay, so I'm all over the Internet. Really easy to find. You just have to spell my name, right? So it's Sami Wunder, not Wunder, S-A-M-I W-U-N-D-E-R. You can follow me on Instagram, @SamiWunderCoach. You can go to my website and if you would love to have a conversation with me, you can book a free consultation with one of my students trained coaches and I have a gift for all the women who are listening to this podcast today. Sorry guys, but I work with women and it's about mastering early dating and what are the five needle moving practical things any woman can do at any age, any phase in her life where she is looking to put herself out there and start dating again. So, it's a five video series and the link will be in the show notes and it's completely free.

Michael: Amazing. And as a guy, and this is just my nature, I'm going to go watch it, too. That said, my friends thank you so much for being here. Again, it's incredible. These are the tools that I wish we were given when we were young, because I look at life as this triad of health, wealth, and relationships. And we are just not given the information in any of these categories to really become high performers and high achievers. And I don't know about you, but I want all of everything that life has to offer in its abundance and in its glory. My last question for you, my friend. What does it mean to you to think unbroken?

Sami: For me to think unbroken looks like always remembering that I have the power within me to create the life and experience I desire to create. The power is never outside of me, the power is always within me. And I am whole, I am complete, and I have everything within me to take the next step and create the life I desire to create.

Michael: Yeah, I love that. I agree. And I often come to the conclusion that I am both the cause and the solution of all the problems in my life. Sami, my friend, thank you so much for being here on broken nation. Remember guys go to think unbroken podcast, look up this episode for Sami's details and to learn more about her coaching practice, especially if you are struggling with love as many of us are in this day and age.

And Until Next Time,

My Friends, Be Unbroken.

I'll See Ya.