The Steps to Empower Your Life with Dr. Kjell Tore Hovik

Michael: Hey, what's up unbroken nation. Welcome to another episode of the Michael unbroken podcast, where our goal is to help you get out of the vortex, become the hero of your own story and ultimately change your life. I'm here joined today by PhD, Dr. Kjell Tore Hovik. Dr. Kjell Tore Hovik, how are you today, my friend?

Dr. Kjell: I'm doing great, right? It's close to the Christmas holiday. It's snowing here in Norway, really Christmassy spirit, of course, everybody's struggling. But trying to look and think and just be positive.

Michael: Yeah, that, I get that it's cold, rainy in Portland right now. And I think about this quite often as I'm in my day to day life and recognizing that, we're in this position right now that we've never been in the history of mankind where we are so connected and yet disconnected at the same time and. When you think about that's gotta be impactful. It's gotta create a huge amount of stress in our lives. And I think that's fitting for a conversation here today because you wrote a book, co wrote a book, I should say called When Crisis Strikes: 5 Steps To Heal Your Brain, Body, And Life From Chronic Stress. And a lot of people associate the idea of chronic stress or chronic toxicity with child abuse, but that's not always necessarily the only case. There's PTSD, there's war, there's a litany of areas in which crisis strikes, no pun intended. Talk to me about the work that you've done to step into the place to write this book. And I find this to be a very important topic, but what drove you to this?

Dr. Kjell: Interesting because really one of the back, the background of the start of the ideas of getting to this, when crisis strikes is really in really difficult breakups really breakups with a lot of conflict as a type of a crisis. The kind of crisis that just really just blows, puts a hand grenade in your daily life structure, and it's one of these things that are, there are a lot of these modern type of crises in addition to what you were referring to, even things like a sudden chronic illness, a sudden diagnosis of a cancer or let's say a family member who has a has received like a diagnosis of dementia or sudden loss or even other types of sudden crises. We started off with this idea of what do we do in these tremendous conflictful relationship breakups, and we started seeing that there's a pattern here. How we work as therapists to help people get through it. And we found that let's work on finding a method, a methodology, some steps that can be described in a very straightforward, simple way to help people work their way out of really devastating and overwhelming crises. So that was really the start of it. And then we wrote this and delivered the book in 2019. And then, we were writing edits and editing the book in 2020 and last year, 2020, and then suddenly this COVID thing came up. So it wasn't in response to that. But of course, when the COVID response and the COVID came, we had to, we wrote a couple of chapters just describing how we ourselves were trying to survive through this this pandemic that the whole world is struggling to find a way through.

Michael: Yeah, perhaps, unfortunately, a little bit serendipitous. And, but I think that's a good thing because you still have the time to create that, we are listening and this will air in a couple of months from now and people are still going to be within the crisis of COVID. I would love if you can just from a high level and we can go deeper as we talk here, just talk about the five steps a little bit. I think often what people are looking for is something palatable and something actionable. And so often as they're listening and learning, people give them this highfalutin scale of maybe try this thing, maybe try that thing, but they don't really break it down. So I would love if you would take a moment and just break down high level, what those five steps look like.

Dr. Kjell: Yeah, yeah, really the start of it we're really have a good, have a clear focus on stress and stressors in one's life, right? What are the things that are really driving your stress response or let's say a physiological or emotional or even a thought reaction pattern? So what are the stresses in your life? Mapping out those and finding out what are the most difficult ones to deal with and then choosing one and thinking through then how to then deal with that, thinking through one's own response. How does one respond to it? Because as individuals, we all respond differently, we all have different ways of responding to these stress and stressors. And then we go through the steps, which is getting a grip of the situation finding out what we can control, what we can't control. putting in steps to then remediate it, to help heal that process, pulling back, taking our, taking care of ourselves in the process, and then also understanding about ourselves, our personalities, our ways of responding, what we want to then maybe culture and nurture and bring forth, and what we maybe want to tone down. So it's a step by step process to work to heal through, let's say, a very traumatic or stressful or difficult life experience.

Michael: Yeah, and one of the words that really stuck out to me there is control. And often I find that can be a catalyst for creating change, but it also can be a catalyst for setting your own house on fire, right? It's such a fine line, but it's also such an impactful thing that we actually have, and I found throughout the scope of work and coaching and learning and growing and all the things I've done within my own life, that control has actually become this great tool for success, but it also can be this thing that kind of destroys everything around you as you're stepping into this though. One of the things that I heard as well as and I'm going to name it, even though you don't say it as it's very much about being present, right? How do you be present with yourself? What kind of role does just being aware play in this?

Dr. Kjell: That's a really interesting point because as a, I'm a clinical neuropsychologist and one of the things that we do when we're working with clients that we're trying to help them out is to understand their ability to focus and have concentration and control and awareness over their own thought patterns, their feeling patterns, their behavior patterns and it's often a difficult thing, and especially if you're in a crisis situation, you're often looking other places than at yourself and you're reacting and you're maybe choosing unhealthy coping strategies to just get your mind onto something else. So part of that process that we describe in the book and the first step actually get a grip is this idea of trying to become in the present, trying to get a control over your focus and your concentration, and there's lots of different techniques that can be used, everything from mindfulness to meditation, to just being in the moment, and there's others as well. So trying to just Become aware of your situation and the context of your situation and your own situation is part of that first step and under the first step of trying to understand what can be done then to work on, or what needs to be worked on to help one's healing process.

Michael: Now, often I hear things like this, I take them with a grain of sand, I go, yeah, guess what? Kjell, easier said than done, and I often in the work with my own clients through coaching and a lot of the things that I write, I blog about and my experiences alone. Mindfulness is a very important tool, but now it's become like faux pas and social media where it is now a thing that you quote unquote do right, but it's so impactful and it's so important to take it seriously, especially if you're dissociated and especially if you're triggered, especially if you're in crisis. How do you, that as a baseline, like, how do you actually really step into awareness?

Dr. Kjell: Let me say two things, one thing is we're very open about, and we described this in the book that the book is actually written as a self help guide. So it's for people that feel that they're somewhat in control of their lives or many people will work their ways through crisis on their own, that, and that's great. Some will need some help and that's really what the book is for others, they maybe can, read and think about it, but they're not able to make the changes in their lives that are necessary and we're open about that these people in that situation are going to need to have maybe the help of a therapist or have someone that can guide them and help them become aware of their own situation and help them also find the right steps to take or the right directions or the right changes in their everyday behavior. But one thing I use just to, okay. To your first question, how do you get that presence is with sports athletes, because I've often worked with athletes that at quite top levels and for them to get focus and being in the present is quite important is often just simply to try to get them to answer the question. How are you feeling right now? And trying to put words on how are you feeling, thinking about what are you thinking about? What are in your thoughts? What are you feeling? What is your mood? What sensations can you feel? Can you feel your fingers touching each other? Can you feel the muscles in your arms? We could even go through different Let's say relaxation exercises again to get the focus and concentration away from tomorrow, from away from the disaster that happened yesterday, away from the argument that happened yesterday or earlier in the day. And just to get into the present and to have a focus on that, and it takes training. So it's not something that can be just done automatically. It's like an athlete, right? They need to train train, and so when they're trying to, perform at their peak, they need to have that training. They can just go into it in an automatic way. So it's, there's no easy quick fix of it, but that's one way to start that process is to really just maybe try to put oneself in a quiet area, right? So that there's not so many there's not so many lights, there's not so many sounds, there's not so many, so much noise, all these things, and then trying to then just feel like, how do I feel right now? And then maybe go through different elements and especially the senses to try to get into touch with really where you are at that very moment.

Michael: I often think about this notion of being stuck in behavioral patterns and being in loops, especially when it comes to dissociation and not being present and being in this place where that control mechanism is about doing all the things that sabotage our journey as we move into what we could have. Can you talk about the role that, and if you have any thoughts, because I'm so curious about the role that self sabotage and being stuck in loop patterns plays in this process?

Dr. Kjell: It's such an important, it's such an important area, and we discussed this in the book and the way I think of it a little is coping mechanism and strategies, right? If you think about, let's say if you have a, let's say a tremendous stress factor, something really stressful has happened then the question is, and we work on this in the book, is that how do you respond to that? What is the response pattern for that, right? And there's quite a lot of escape strategies that people use to get away from dealing with the problem, right? Somebody has been, and I think this is the same similar thing that's happening with trauma, let's say early trauma. If a child is experiencing something just horrific, they're going to react to it, right? And how does that reaction then influence the way that they have relationships, the way that they deal with emotional issues later, all these things become ingrained and there become a pattern. And if it's not a healthy and a good way of reacting, then that's going to be part of their way of reacting later. We spend a lot of time trying to really be concrete about starting with the stress, right? A very stressful event is that, what is that? Why did it happen? And what is your response to that? And how are you dealing with that? And is it the right way of dealing with it? If the right way of dealing with a very, let's say a chronic illness or very painful is using medication and that medication is leading to a dependency then one can think about, is that the right? Coping mechanism for that painful initial stress factor, stress response, and the same thing in other areas as well. What, how do we cope? How do we deal with is our, and have we chosen the right way of dealing with it?

Michael: Yeah. And I often think to myself, how do we reframe that understanding of the mechanisms that we need to cope? How do we put ourselves in a position to effectively reverse engineer the trigger to step through it in a way that can be impactful and profound that also sets up a baseline to continue to live life without stepping into that again, ‘cause I think about this, like walking through a minefield, right? If you walk through it and you step on one once your brain should say, Hey, don't do that thing again. But innately we know that's not how this works. So here's, I'm fascinated by this question. How do you avoid being in the loop when everything that you know and have experienced has led to this place that says my coping mechanism is self harm because that feels better than working through the pain of the event that has happened.

Dr. Kjell: It's a really interesting question, this is the way I approach it. And part of my experience is working with young people. Different, with different serious mental illnesses, but one is early signs of psychosis or serious thought disorder, even schizophrenia which becomes which is a very difficult mental illness to work with. But what we want to try to do is, let's look at not just one thought, one action, one behavior, one emotion, but let's think of what are the daily routines, what are the daily habits, what are the, what are, what is the rhythm in your life over a longer period of time, and can we do things in that area, eating properly, eating regularly, having fun on a regular basis, doing social things having sleep, not least of all, having good sleep, trying to work on those stabilizing patterns in your life is often a good kind of framework for trying to work on other more difficult things, then we can go in and talk about how do you react when somebody, says something that triggers you to become just, emotionally, very volatile or very aggressive, for example, so we need to have a baseline or a, let's say a framework of a daily rhythm, we try to get that in place as a start.

Michael: Yeah, you took the words right out of my mouth, the very first thing that I tell people is if you show me your calendar, I'll show you whether or not you're successful perfectionism, perfectionist mannerism, but instead it's about this idea of, can I take time for myself today? Okay, I think about the power of my morning routine that sets me up for success every day, and I don't know that everyone has to do all the things. And in fact, I say, don't, you don't have to do yoga, you don't have to meditate, you don't have to journal, you don't have to do all the things, but you have to do something. So as you're in this, and we're obvious total agreement here, what are those some things that you find to be most potent for people who are stepping back into reassociation?

Dr. Kjell: There's a few things.

One of the things we have one of the steps is actually we call it's the fourth step. It's pull back and it and in general, it's taking care of yourself as you're talking about, and some of the techniques we're using there is like just this idea of trying to simplify things because we often experience that people, especially in a crisis situation, and maybe responsible for other people and it everything becomes very complicated. So how can we simplify, simplify that complicated idea or that complicated situation into something very much more manageable. That's one technique that one might use. The other thing is when one can latch on to certain ideas of being, for example, of being helpful and being doing something concrete that'll help also ground your thoughts and your feelings and your behavior into something that's directed to something simple and not and positive essentially, and also working to build your self esteem, your self confidence and yourself worth. These kinds of activities that could be other things. They could be taking photos, for example, and just trying to get good at being in the moment, in the visual sphere of just capturing something that's beautiful and just trying to work on that. It can be a hobby, it can be a hobby where you're making something often something that you're making with your hands and you're using your whole body, you're using your whole create creative apparatus to generate something, these are types of techniques that can help ground a person that's very in a very unstable situation.

Michael: Yeah, I think those are fantastic suggestions, I know right now someone is sitting listening to this on their drive or on their bus ride to work or wherever they are in the gym and thinking to themselves I have kids and I have a job and I have a family and I have bills and I have debt and I have COVID to deal with and there is crisis everywhere, there's stress everywhere. This sounds fine on paper, but I don't think I can do that. I believe that so much of this entire healing process is mindset and the things that you say to yourself and the way that you present the ability that you have for you to step into some of these things, and so often before you even get to the idea of baseline, I can potentially do this, the narrative has already been, there's no way I can't do this. It's never going to happen. How much of a role in just crisis management is your mindset?

Dr. Kjell: It's incredibly important and that's, it's often a challenge, right? It's seeing the glass half full rather than half empty. It's that way of changing the way of interpreting things. People are acting or saying something to you. How do you interpret that? Do you interpret it as, as well intentioned, or you automatically interpret it as being bad intentioned, right? These are choices we really can make, I think, in our mindset, how to relate and how to interpret, how to think about different issues as that might arise. So there is definitely work to be done, in us all, in terms of that, of getting that mindset that we feel is part of us and who we want to be. I think just to say it a word again about this idea of yeah, people having families, having work, struggling in a day to day basis, trying to deal with COVID and all that, that is what you're describing or what's described is really a very stressful situation, right? And you can think about, How is it if you're stressed all the time? It's if you're exercising, if you're lifting weights 24 hours a day, all week, how is that going to, how is that going to help your body? How are you going to be in a physical situation, in a condition to be able to contribute, to help? You need to be able to have some breaks. It might just be having It's seeing something incredibly funny and just laughing belly laughing for a half an hour or 15 minutes or 10 minutes It can be that but just having a break from the stress having a break from that intensity That's important and maybe even doing that with the family. So that requires a little organization, it requires a little planning and that's what's often difficult in a stress daily situation, right? Because you're just trying to survive and especially if you're almost, you're going to be thrown out of your apartment, you don't have money to pay the red. Imagine these are just like the worst conditions to be able to say okay, let me spend 10 minutes just for myself. But, I always, I give one of the examples I give in the book is that, I used to fly a lot because I was flying back and from Norway and California and the stewardesses would always say, okay. The stewards would say that in case of an emergency, if the plane's going down and it's over water there's going to be some little masks that are going to fall down and the important thing is that you need to take the mask over your face first because you can only help other people if you're also in a situation where you're all, you're able to have breath. So that idea of, Okay, yeah, you're responsible for everyone else in the family, you're responsible for other things and at work, but you also need to take care of yourself and prioritize that because if you don't do that, you're not in the condition to be able to help others.

Michael: Yeah, that's such a great point. And I think about this idea that we've constantly as trauma survivors made exceptions to that rule because we're so used to putting ourselves second, third or last, right? And as you step into this healing journey, and I will argue this against anyone, the most important thing that you can do is put yourself first period, because by proxy, the impact on those other things will be far and exponentially greater. There's no questions asked by showing up for yourself first that is going to impact your life for the best. What the problem is, I believe, is that is a terrifying notion, you mean that I can put myself first? That's okay? You're Dr. Kjell, you're telling me this right now. It's okay for me to put myself first, but how do I do that? Because everything that you say sounds great, but the idea of actually stepping into it is so far embedded in me that is a negative thing, self care is not for me, self care is for hippies and yogis and, donors and all those things. And this idea of self care great, but I'm a man of color from the Midwest and America where self care, if you talked about it, you would get laughed out of the room, my argument would be that a you're probably in the wrong damn room to begin with and be noticing the fact that as you step into self care first and foremost, your life will in fact, become better. The point that I want to make about this, and the reason I'm saying this is, most people don't actually notice that they're not taking care of themselves, right? How do you even know if you've been impacted by chronic stress?

Dr. Kjell: Yeah, that's, I think the modern life is full of stresses, right? There's expectations, those are, we can look at those and think of those as stresses, and these are external, often external factors that we're struggling with, right? We need to get a job, we need to get an education, we need to do all these things. That's stressful in itself and especially in a context where everything's very competitive and you need to have so how do you find? Time or room to take care of yourself, there's also an issue of what does it mean to take care of yourself, right? Because it's, I'm not talking about, like spending tons of money on oneself or, but I'm talking about doing things. And again, it requires reflection and requires time to focus and think about what is it that's important for me? It can be small things. It can be things, but things that are helping a person really feel better about themselves, right? How can I do things or think things or feel things that are going to make me feel better about myself that's going to help everybody around me in that context in the next reaction?

Michael: Yeah and so much of that again is just being present, right? And I often think about the long term implications and impacts of chronic stress and trauma on the brain and the body as you head down this long enough timeline and thinking about the possibility to I don't want to say, to regrow your brain, but to solidify it and to fortify it and to have sovereignty and to be able to put yourself in a position to be successful. But my fear often, and probably the reason that part of myself care is omega 3s and vitamin D and healthy fats and things like that is to like, create more integrity within the brain. What are the long term ramifications, if any, of chronic stress?

Dr. Kjell: It's definitely, there's definitely been shown, that chronic stress without again getting these regular breaks and without, with just being overwhelmed by stress over a long period of time, that something that's going to break down the integrity and the structure in the brain. So it's definitely it's been shown not to be any, anything that's, can last over time and just will lead to a breakdown. So the earlier one kind of deals with it, I think it's, is the better, and one thing is, what you're putting into your system as you were mentioning the nutrition, and also Omega threes and these things but a lot of it has to do with just what you're spending your time doing and how you live your everyday life and what you're doing, value you can put into that. And that's going back into what are the routines and what are the habits and things that you do on a regular basis that can help you.

Michael: Yeah, and when you're in this place of creating habit and routine and change and living in what I'm going to guess, if you're listening to this, a Western society where we are very goal oriented, where we are accomplished oriented, where we are willing to sacrifice who we are to hit this pedestal. How do you manage that side of this? Because I think that's a conversation that's not talked about often enough, and I recognize in my past, these workaholism behaviors and these achievement growth behaviors, and then putting myself dead last murdering myself for goals and deadlines and projects and things like that. But we go that's just the way we do it. How do you facilitate managing like that thing where you want to be successful, but you're also leveraging that as the thing that's. And in essence, destroying your life, right?

Dr. Kjell: It's a great point and it's an important point. And we talk a little about it, we talk about it in the book. It's an important thing because you have, you can think of this, if we talk about a locus of control back to your idea of control, what is it that controls our behavior and our thoughts and our feelings? And, you have these factors that are outside of us, and like you said that the culture, the expectations of others, expectations of your parents, the expectations of society and then you have, the inner expectations of the inner aspects of control that are driving. And the question is, I think quite a few without maybe reflecting properly over it, they are just accepting these external stressful factors and bringing them inside and saying that's the same thing that's what I feel or they don't even one doesn't even really reflect over it. And that's part of this process, one of the steps in our book is that we need to think through that and think that what is it that I really value as an individual? What is it that's important for me to achieve? And it could be something that is important also for others, it could be, a good job. It could be an education, but just to really find that, be that, be certain that is, what you are interested yourself in achieving, that's your own goal, that's your own belief, and then also making sure that you're taking care of yourself in all aspects of your life on the way to that goal, just like an athlete will do, right? We think, talk about top athletes, they want, they have a very ambitious goal, but they need to then take care of themselves very efficiently during Their workouts, they can't, if they work out too much, if they stress too much, they're not going to be able to perform at their peak. They're not going to be at their best, they're going to be, they're going to wear themselves down, they're going to really degrade their ability to even perform, in a good way. So that whole inner control is important to understand. What is it that I really want to achieve for myself?

Michael: Yeah, I find it fascinating that we live in a society that says, work yourself until you're exhausted, hit rock bottom, and then get a trophy for it because you did such a good job killing yourself. And I have very lofty goals and I look at what those are and I measure them against this idea of impacting a million people to create change in their life and ultimately my goal being, how do I put myself out of a job? Meaning, that we have created a change in society that has impacted the world in such a great way that I don't ever have to have a conversation about a child being hurt, and ultimately thinking about the way that you get there on a long enough timeline is this incredible amount of work. But in these moments, when I feel super stressed, tired, exhausted, I can't go on anymore. I asked myself, do I really need a break or am I procrastinating? And if I take a break, I take a break and I find that I don't beat myself up about it. But so often that's the first thing we go to, oh, you don't need a break. You're soft, you're weak, you're being a baby. How do you give yourself permission to take a break without beating yourself up?

Dr. Kjell: It's a good point. And it's interesting to, that you're discussing this with, you want to change a million lives and it's, again, I would say, I would think in that context, really simplifying it in the sense is what is it that you're trying to do? And I've heard your podcast, Michael, and they're just brilliant. And I just so respect what you're working in, what you're doing, and what you're doing is you're trying to help people, right? So the way that I think about it is that I don't do podcasts. I'm just working as a therapist, but I want to try to help one person at a time. And if I can help that one person, then maybe they can be positive influence for some other person, and if I can just do that one person at a time then maybe that's going to grow something that's going to be worthwhile over time, I try to then simplify it, that's the way I do it for myself. I really try to simplify down into something a little more specific, a little more concrete, not larger numbers, not larger amounts of anything, but just one thing at a time, having focus and giving it my all for that one experience or what that one opportunity.

Michael: Yeah, and I think about that number being very arbitrary, right? Whether it's one or 800 million, it doesn't matter, the point is just the action, right? The point is moving towards it. But so much of it, it is about moving towards what I find to be value in my life and the way that I want to show up in it, and that's the entirety. And I think that's the thing that, that people can really take away from this is, can you do something in your life that brings you value? Instead of worrying about what everybody else thinks that you should be doing. We're starting to run out of time here and I'm going to ask you a couple more questions, but before I do, can you tell everybody where they can find you?

Dr. Kjell: We have a website and the website is for the book and everything we're doing in relation to the book. It's www.whencrisisstrikes.com. Okay, so that's the website. We're also on Instagram, right? We both have an Instagram account. It's mostly, mine is mostly just nature photography from Norway, it's @HovikPhD. That's my passion, just trying to be in the moment as I was describing earlier. I started it, I never had an Instagram account before, we had the book out and the publisher said, you need to have an Instagram account. I said, okay, I'm going to have one, but I'm going to, I'm going to put on it what I want, and that's nature, pictures from Norway. So that's @HovikPhD.

Michael: Beautiful, I love it. And we'll put those links in the show notes. My first of two questions is for someone listening to this right now who has recognized just through this conversation that perhaps they're dissociated or they've been impacted by chronic stress or toxicity or whatever that thing may be. If you were to give them just one tool that they can walk away with today, that they can implement into their life starting right now, what would that be?

Dr. Kjell: I think if there's one thing that I would really emphasize. What is it you have control over? What is it you have control over? Maybe also thinking what do you not have control over? I often find that people often really stress the most about what they don't have control over. That's just terrifying and worrying about what if. If it's out of your control, it's out of your control, right? But what you do have in your control, that, that's something you can do something about, right? And things that are very concrete in their, in your everyday life, that's going to maybe, that's going to be able to build self confidence doing that in the best way that you can.

Michael: Yeah, I love it. I totally agree. And my last question for you, my friend, is what does it mean to you to be unbroken?

Dr. Kjell: Yeah. Unbroken, it's interesting. My background is a clinical neuropsychologist. We, in our training, we're quite often focused on brain injuries, right? And I've been listening to your podcasts, which are just so outstanding, and you're often talking about this idea of trauma and especially childhood trauma. And that involves an emotional injury or also more serious than that, but an emotional injury, and these are hidden, I think of them as in a way, hidden injuries because you can't really see it, other people can't see it as easily as you can see a broken arm where you have a cast on or if you're, using crutches or something, then people understand there's an injury there. But if you have either a brain injury or an emotional injury from a trauma, it's not as easily seen. So people are often maybe not aware of it in the same way, and of course, the people themselves that are having to maybe do a lot of compensation in order to try to deal with it. But I think it's important for these people to really accept it and accept their situation and then work to change whatever they have in their control again, make something better out of their life from what they can deal with and accept the situation and try to get away from looking and trying to meet all the expectations of everybody coming from the outside or demanding things from the outside and being just whole and satisfied with their own person and their own abilities and their own activities and their own way of living their life.

Michael: I could not agree more when I wrote The Six Principles Of Healing, one of them was acceptance. And that is a really hard thing for people to palette because that means that something bad did happen, and the only way we can move through the things that have happened to us is by being able to have a rational understanding, put them where they need to go and step through it, not to avoid it, not to run from it, but to say, yes, this happened. Now, what can I do about it? Dr. Kjell Tore Hovik my friend, this was an amazing conversation. Thank you so much for being here on Unbroken Nation. Please like subscribe, follow, leave a comment and rate the podcast, it would mean the world to me.

And Until Next Time,

My Friends, Be Unbroken.

I'll See Ya.