This will HEAL You From Past Trauma

Nick: Michael, thank you so much for making the time to come on my podcast. I actually came across you about two weeks ago I heard you on another podcast and literally was hanging off every word. So, as you're aware of, obviously I DMed you straight after and sure enough, here we are. So first of all, just so grateful that you're making the time to come and talk to me today.

Michael: Yeah, I do man, it's my pleasure man. Thanks for reaching out. I appreciate it.

Nick: No, I massively appreciate it. And really, I hearing your story. One of the things with Move Your Mind, it's all-around sharing stories, vulnerability, trying to interview a range of people that have been in, you know, different industries and their stories and what they've been through. But one thing we haven't gone into really dive deep into is trauma and hearing, you know, your story and what you talk about so relevant for what we are wanting our listeners to be exposed to. And you know, I've read and heard your story and it's so compelling but for our listeners, would you mind sharing your story and how you came to where you are now?

Michael: Yeah, dude, for sure. I'll give you the elevator pitch version here, you know. So, I grew up in Indianapolis, I grew up in the middle of America. My mother was a drug addict and alcoholic in fact, she cut off my right index finger when I was only four years old. And people always be like, well, how could your mom do that? And, you know, hurt people, hurt people. She married my stepfather who was super abusive, kind of, dude you pray is never your stepfather. He'd kick the shit outta my brothers and eye man. He'd put me in the hospital a couple times, like craziness, right? And I used to lie in bed and like, pray God's spirit universe send my real dad, come rescue me, come save me. And I learned at a real young age, man, ain't nobody coming to save you. And so, the majority of my childhood, we were deeply homeless and in poverty, I lived with 30 different families between eight to 12 years old, getting bounced around, place to place, church friends, families, friends of friends, sleeping in vans like f*cking craziness, man. And when I was 12, my grandma adopted me. And you'd think that'd be like this heaven scent, right? But I'm biracial, black and white, and my grandma's an old racist white lady from a town in Tennessee you never heard of like we literally had a copy of Hitler's autobiography, mind comp in our house, right? Just to kind of give you like substance here. And I got high for the first time when I was 12, drunk at 13 and by 15 I was expelled from school for selling drugs. And look, I was just doing what I had to do to survive, man like I was breaking into houses, stealing cars, getting shot at, running from the cops, hurting people like it was gnarly, man, we used to do some crazy sh*t. And you know, it was brotherhood, it was connection, it was just feeling like I was a part of something. And I got put into this last chance program luckily, I did not graduate high school on time still and in fact, basically what happened is my senior year, I went to summer school and the summer school teacher, he goes, dude, we're done with you. Get the h*ll out. Here's your diploma. And I was like, this is really weird because I just told I don't gonna graduate because of the way I'm acting and now the way that I'm acting, you're giving me the pass. So, I was like, I'm really confused and I'm working this job that summer, putting microchips into mother boards on an assembly line, like all day, dude, like 12 hours. And like, I'm just watching the desperation in people's eyes all day long where like I realized like, this is the best it's ever gonna get for them. And I got fired probably because I was stoned, but I was sitting in my car and I'm like, thinking about life, a man, like, man, what is the solution for all this? For poverty, for abuse, for homelessness? And I was like, oh, it's money. It's gotta be money, right? Like what else would it be? It's the one thing we never had that everyone always talked about. And I was like, all right, cool, I'm gonna go make a hundred thousand dollars a year legally by the time that I'm 21 and I just started learning skills. And this was important to me ‘cuz like as of today, my three childhood best friends have been murdered like I knew where I was going if my shit didn't change, man.  And so, I was like, bet, all right, cool. So, I started learning skills, I landed a job working for a fast-food gig, 52 people under me at 18 years old, learning how to do PNLs and ordering and shrink and loss and hiring and training. And one day I'll age myself here a little bit, I'm on MySpace and I'm talking with one of my homies and he's like, yo, I just got a Tahoe, I was like, how did your dumb ass just get this brand-new truck? This thing's like 30 grand. I'm like you went to my high school, you got stoned with me every day, what are you doing? And he's like, dude, I got a job with an insurance company. I was like, what? You can do that? Because look, Nick, here's all I knew. Homelessness, buy here, pay here. I knew fast food gigs, warehouse gigs. I didn't know you could do that. And I was like, that's how I make a hundred thousand bucks. So, I started learning skills and sure enough, as I headed into 21, I landed a job with a Fortune 10 company that everyone in this country knows about, no high school diploma, no college education, started making six figures and my life became a f*cking disaster. And you know what happened was I was just consuming everything, it was excess, it was women, drugs, cars, clothes, jewelry., it was shoes, it was suits, it was $500 dinner and $1,000 bar nights and just f*cking chaos. And as I was heading into 26 years old, ‘cuz what I didn't understand, I had never done the work, man. I had not ever put myself in a position to learn. And I was heading into 26, I'm 350 pounds, smoking two packs a day, drinking myself to sleep, getting high from the moment I woke up till the moment I went to bed, cheating on my girlfriend, and I was over $40,000 in debt, making six figures. And that's when I put a gun in my mouth, man, I was done. I was like, sh*t, I thought this money sh*t was gonna solve these problems and it didn't. And I'm lying in bed the next day and I'm thinking to myself like, what the f*ck is happening, man? And I got up, I'm lying in bed, I'm just sitting there. And keep in mind, I'm 350 pounds, I'm smoking a joint, eating chocolate cake and watching the CrossFit games, dude, I was at rock bottom like literally it, that was the worst moment of my life. And I got up and I went and I looked at myself in the mirror, in the bathroom. And I remember being eight years old and the water company had come and turned off our water, but man, they were always turning off the water, the electricity, the heat, we were getting evicted. And for whatever reason, I went in the backyard, I get this little blue bucket, I walk across the street to our neighbor's house, and for the first time I stole water. And I grew up in America, dog. And I remember being like, when I'm a grownup, this will not be my life. And as I looked in the mirror, I realized I was breaking that promise and I asked myself, and I'll never understand why I did this, I just came to me like, I don't know God or something, right? I asked myself, what are you willing to do to have the life that you want to have? And the answer was, “no excuses, just results.” And what that meant is I was no longer gonna negotiate with myself. I was no longer gonna be the victim. Dude, I'm the king of being the f*cking victim. It was always somebody's fault, man. It was your fault, the community's fault, my family's fault, my teacher's fault, Obama's fault like dude, it was everybody's, it was never Michael's fault. And I wanna be clear, I wasn't taking culpability for abuse, man, that's not what I was doing. I was looking at my actions in the moment and being like, this is on you. Do something about it. And that started a trajectory, which for the next three years were the most difficult years of my life. I was learning, growing, changing, healing, therapy, coaching, education, conferences, events, books, the whole nine and 11 years later, bro, here I am talking to you.

Nick: Wow. I mean, I don't even know where to begin with that, it's incredibly powerful and thank you for sharing that as well. And there's so many things to touch on, even in just what you talked about there, but I guess that's something we see all the time as well, isn't it that we're not taught about how to identify, you know, who we are, become more self-aware learn, what really drives me, what are the things that I want and we get taught because of capitalism that we should strive to make money or do this or do that and grind to get there. And then you get there and you know, I've seen it with a lot of people I've known where they'll make a whole lot of money, but they're just as miserable because how's that gonna replace the underlying, you know, thing that you haven't addressed? But we don't get taught how to do that work on ourselves. So, I guess like you're saying, I love that what you were talking about there with we need to stop blaming others and stop looking for an answer, that's the only thing I've learned and is that something that you are pretty big on through your work, I guess? Is that what you're trying to teach other people as well to learn to be accountable personally.

Michael: Yeah. Look man, and you're right, like growing up, everybody is told, idolize this idea of creating this life. But the entire time that you're growing up, it's actually being stripped away from you through school, through your community, everybody is telling you, man, put your hand down. Be quiet. Walk on the right side of the hall, go to the bathroom when we say, get in f*cking line, do all this s*it, but also go and follow your dreams. It's stupid, man. It doesn't make sense. And so, what you find is you're in this weird position where suddenly, like I was, you're like, man, I'm doing what everybody told me to do. I got all the money. I'm having all this sex. I got all these cars. I got all this sh*t, but I'm about to kill myself. So, something here ain't working, right? And the thing about it is, the truth is our identity is stripped from us in youth, right? Think about this, man.

The human brain serves one purpose, survival. That's it. It wants to assess data to create and differentiate an understanding between danger and safety so that you can navigate the world effectively. And so, the entire time that you're growing up, you're bringing in all this stimulus. Your brain is compiling things that's going, all right, cool. This thing is safe, though, that's okay. That thing's dangerous. It's not okay. But the problem with that is, and especially when you're coming from a house that's abusive like mine, the most dangerous thing that I could do was have an opinion, was to be myself, the fastest way for me to get my head slammed into the wall was to speak. And so, think about this. Your brain is going, sh*t, it's dangerous to be me. I better not do that. I better not do that. And the hard part about it is that actually serves you. It keeps you safe for a period when you're 8, 12, 16 years old and then you're 32, 45, 68 years old. You don't know how to say yes and you don't know how to say no. Look, man my opinion, obviously childhood trauma and abuse, it's not the scars, right? It ain't my mom cutting my finger off, it's not the cuts, it's not the burns, that ain't the sh*t I carry with me. It was the theft of my identity. And so here I am looking at what does it take to create this life to, and I'm answering your question, but I wanted to make context, is that I had to learn how to be me that's the thing that childhood trauma survivors have to do, is they have to learn how to be themselves. And whereas a lot of people have the safety of the comfort of exploration in childhood to figure that out in a non-viral environment, they are way in advance of where someone is whereas I was at 26 years old, or many people are who are 30 or 50 or 60, and they've already had the failures of discovery, but they had the safety net to catch them. We didn't because our failures of discovery involve pain, physical, mental, emotional, spiritual, sexual pain. And so, when we tried to be us, it hurt so bad we became chameleons. You bend yourself to know that you're safe in an environment, so you say, cool. My favorite band is Nick's favorite band. My favorite food is their favorite food. I'm gonna always be you so that I can be safe. And then the problem with that is you get to this place where people will hear this conversation, they're like, cool, I wanna change my life. But the problem is they don't understand that because of causation and correlation, all of those experiences that happen leading to today have set them up for failure because the brain's number one operation is to keep you safe. And if you're trying to be you and that equals danger, then that means you can never be you because your brain doesn't allow it. And so, what happens is you have to literally force yourself through the suffering and discomfort of discovery to become you.

Nick: Yeah. I mean, so it's sort of like immersion therapy almost from what you're saying. I guess like, for me, if my own story, I had a lot of traumas from things that I went through and mental health issues, and I was afraid of my own shadow. I couldn't talk in front of people, and I tried everything and I just couldn't piece my life together. And I was falling apart, relying on alcohol and it wasn't until I had to f with this course I was doing at university, I had to force myself to go and speak regularly in front of like five people and I'd be literally vomiting before I'd do it and I had all these voices saying, you know, you're a piece of sh*t. You can't do this. You're gonna everyone's judging you. And I would still have to do it and it was only, that's not the only thing I learned, like what you're saying by doing it over and over and over again. Reconditioned that thought process too, Oh, it's actually okay, I can do this thing, you know, you end up finding the who you are and what you wanna do and empowering yourself that you don't have to be at the mercy of these things. But like you're saying, I haven't been able to find other methods, you can't sort of be just waiting for it to get better or we always tell ourselves that hopefully one day things will just fall into place or whatever it is. But your gut sort of knows if you hide from it and I guess there's so many levels of it. So, it’s just something that we just don't get taught to do, which is crazy, you know, we're not educated on it.

Michael: Yeah. And the hard part about that too is, and I want to point out something you said, your gut knows, yes, it's accurate, but you have to think about the override of your brain telling your gut that it's wrong because it's like, you want to try to do that thing and your gut is like, yes, this is who I am. I wanna do it. I'll give you a great example. People are like, I wanna be on stage and I wanna write a book, or I wanna start a podcast, or I want to go and do that creative thing. And your brain says, nah, you better not that seems dangerous. They're gonna judge you, they're gonna shame you, they're gonna ridicule you, they're gonna ostracize you. You're gonna be bad. No one's gonna like you, it's gonna suck, blah, blah, blah, blah. You know all the bullsh*t, right? Yes. So yes, you're correct like your gut is going to be the thing that indicates whether you have success, but you have to learn and understand the truth that your brain is trying to impede that the whole time.

And so, you have to literally override it. I think about it like this. It's like you're at the threshold, let's say you have prepared for this moment, right? Whatever that moment is, you implant that for yourself and you packed all your stuff that you need, you got in the car, you drove there, you're in the parking lot and there is the building and there is this massive wave of anxiety that is all over you. Right? And that threshold, that doorway to everything that you want, only involves you getting outta the car, walking across the parking lot and turning the handle and walking in. Most people aren't gonna walk in the f*cking door because their brain has so strongly controlled them that they can't do it. And until you recognize the truth that you have to, yeah, you literally have to. It's funny cuz when I started cutting my teeth in public speaking, I asked myself, I said, I wanna be an incredible public speaker, that was the goal. I was like, I wanna speak on the biggest stages. I want to win awards, you know, many of these things which I have done, started with me saying, what is the hardest form of public speaking known to man? I was like, oh, its probably standup comedy, right? And so, I said, f*ck it, that's what we're doing. The key here, Nick, is I think people need to understand that that overriding your brain is about not negotiating with yourself. And in that moment of truth where you're like, I feel like this is who I am to fully own that sh*t and walk through that door, despite the discomfort and the pain and the assured suffering that will occur ‘cuz I promise you, you're gonna suck the first time and then to continue to do it every single day until you get what you want. And I apply that to everything in life, like the dreams that you have, the goals that you want, they don't give a sh*t about your excuses. And if you're not willing to walk through fire, which it's true, like you get it, man, it's fucking painful to do some of the shit you want to do in your life when it comes to honoring yourself. If you ain't willing to suffer for it, you're not gonna get it. I'm sorry, I hate to break it to you, but that's just truth.

Nick: Oh, 1000%. And the crazy thing is, even if you do take that step and put yourself out there and you decide, you know what, I'm gonna do it. I'm gonna put myself, I'm gonna face my fears, I'm gonna put push outta my comfort zone and I'm gonna be okay with failing and trying these things and pushing even while you're doing that, you'll often have all of the people closest to you, you know, parents, friends, et cetera, actively trying to tell you not to do it. I mean, again, I can only really go on my own personal experience and what I've heard from other people, but every step of the way of everything I've tried to do I had people saying, no, Nick, you can't do that. Or, when I got into acting, you know, how are you gonna act? You've never performed. You're so shy, you don't have natural ability. And close people sitting there trying to plead with me, don't do this thing you wanna do. And then eventually when I did it and got the results, they're coming back saying, oh, that's so great. You know, like they're wanting to share in. But it's like, there's that part of it as well where, you can make the decision yourself, but then you've gotta be so conscious that I'm also gonna have to block out all that noise. And just back myself is there, what would be your advice for that part of the process with it?

Michael: Yeah. I mean, look man, that's just fact. You know, people are just going to want to instill their limitations on you because when you try to step into who you are, it's going to be a reflection for them of the things that they're terrified of. And that's really hard for people to swallow. You know what I'm saying? It's like, you know, go look at this. As you grow, as you change the people around you, many of them will make notice of it when you talk about your dreams, you will have people that laugh at you. I'll give you an example. One of my biggest goals with this company is to make 25 million a year. I'm so f*cking far away from that like it's gonna take forever. But I promise you there are not people in my life who don't believe I cannot do it. Oh, you know, that's so much. Nope. Out gone. Sorry. I'm not gonna f*ck with you because I'm not gonna have your limitations get in my way.

I think one of the most important things about this is you have to have the willingness to like set the boundary of no complaining. Get that outta here. Don't you bring your negativity into my world because the truth is, I look at life about, I think about like The Matrix a lot, right? And I know people in personal development reference it all the time, but the truth about it is, it's my favorite movie, it's been my favorite movie since I was a child, since I was like 10 years old. And I love it, dude, I remember sitting here watching that movie, my mom so on the very rare occasion that we had money, my mom took us to the dollar theater so you could go see a movie for a dollar. And the Matrix had come out and she took me and my two little brothers and we're sitting there and I'm watching this f*cking movie. And I distinctly remember being like, that's happening right now. This is real life now. Is that true? I don't know. How would you know? We're in the Matrix, but what I do know is that I distinctly remember being, like understanding the truth of who Neo was at the very beginning of the film ‘cuz he's sitting in the office where his boss is threatening to fire him ‘cuz he is late and I thought to myself, well that's really stupid. Why would anyone ever fire you because you're late? That doesn't make sense to me. Right? Time, this thing. And so, I'm deeper into this and as I've grown, the thing that I've learned is like, people want to fire you for your dream because you're out chasing it ‘cause you're out building it, they don't want to see the truth about their shortcomings. And because when you move into who you are, the people around you are going to be like, you changed. And Jay-Z has my favorite quote, literally my favorite quote of all time is people around you saying that you changed well, I didn't do all this work to stay the same. Like I don't want to be the same person tomorrow that I am today. I wanna move towards these massive dreams, these huge goals, this awesome impact.

Think Unbroken mission is to end generational trauma through education and information in my lifetime so that another kid doesn't have a story like mine. You think I can be around mother*ckers that say, that's not possible? Do you know how big that f*cking dream is? And you're gonna tell me I can't do it? No, you don't get a seat at my table. I promise you, you don't. And look, I don't care if you are my family, if you're my partner, if you're my business associate, you're gone because I'm trying to do something huge and I don't need cheerleaders, but I also don't need somebody who's trying to bring me down. And so, you're gonna find that as you grow and as you move into who you are and you build the life that you want to have, those people, I promise you measure it. You know if this is true, ‘cuz you've done this too. I guarantee it. Go look up your friends from 10 years ago, on f*cking Facebook, just see what they're doing. The people who haven't stepped into their truth, ‘cuz I promise you they're doing the same shit they were doing before. I already did that. I don't want to do it anymore. And so you've gotta be willing to let go of people. I know it's difficult. I know it's uncomfortable. I know it sucks, man. I'll create massive context for people right now who go, it's easier said than done. I did the hardest thing anyone could ever do as a kid, probably in your whole life. When I was 15, I put a restraining order on my mother, my mom, dude, when I was 18, I told her I will never talk to you again. There is a 0% chance I'd be having this conversation with you if I wouldn't have done that. So, don't tell me I don't know what heart is ‘cuz I do. There's nothing more difficult than that, but what are you willing to do to have your life? I knew what would happen if I stayed in contact with her, and when she died, she died alone legless from drug overdose that is not in alignment with my future. And that's the thing people have to understand, sometimes it's your mom that's in your way, and that's just truth, man.

Nick: There's so many things in here that you're saying that, you know, I think we could talk, so many amazing things. But on that note, it's so true, I haven't had anything near as severe with you, but I know, I'm sure it's relatable for so many people. It's often your parents that whether it's on a really severe level, like what you are talking about or just on a superficial level of, for me it's been well-being, having to reduce the information that I expose to them of what I'm doing because they're gonna not understand it, not support it, not believe in you and that used to really upset and frustrate me. And it's still something that can trigger me now where it's like, I'm doing this project and I'm so excited about it. I'm not asking for validation or their advice or anything. It's more just like trying to share and then it's this negativity and fear, and it would trigger me because it reminds me of the conditioning that I'm still trying to undo in my own life of, you can't do this, you gotta do this, you know, this is how you gotta live your life. And it goes so against everything that I stand for. But you have to be so aware of it and make those hard decisions and like you're saying, that's the only thing that I've learned that works for it. It's just thinking, well, I know what I'm doing and why I'm doing it, and I've gotta get to that point where I don't need validation from anyone. The people that that I'm gonna keep in my corner are the ones that believe in me and understand what's going on outside of that who gives a sh*t what other people think? I guess touching on that, is there other advice you can give? Cause I know, you know, just again, being in my own personal life, that's been something I've struggled with having these goals. And then I'll have friends even that have different values that are now, you know, like sort of doing careers that, or have a philosophy on life that I don't agree with, and you know, when you don't get the respect from them and you're having that disconnect it can be, you know, it's not healthy. I think you said it before, but would you say that it's just cutting, being aware of relationships and cutting out, what's not serving you anymore?

Michael: Well, yes and no. And the yes comes from like, I mean, is this just unrecoverable, like this relationship is just decimated that's a yes, all day. You know, you had the conversations, you sat down, you went and talked about it, you laid out expectations, you put in boundaries, you talked about what you wanted. It's not getting honored. You gotta dip. That's just the truth of it. Right? I'll give you a great example. One of the opposites, two of my closest friends on planet Earth have absolutely zero interest in anything that I do. And not in like this, not about like building the impact, but about the company and running business and talking marketing and podcast, they're like, we don't care. We just wanna f*cking hang out with you and have fun. And I'm like, cool. So, we just don't talk about it, they have zero interest in ever talking about business, so we don't. And so that just has helped our relationships so much like we talk about music and movies and the pop culture sh*t we enjoy and we go on picnics and you know, we do stuff like that. But when I start talking about business, they're like, dude, we don't care. I'm like, good, thanks for holding the boundary. Right? Because I could talk about business all day long, that's my favorite thing on planet Earth. And so, you know, I do think it's really interesting when you have to kind of like bucket these people and get really clear about it. Like, what is our relationship? What is the status of it? How do we interact with each other? You know, is it bringing me value? Is it taking away from me? Because look, I'll give you a great example. These two friends of mine were super f*cking negative all the time, and they just were always complaining and they just blamed the world and they were, woe is me, they would not be my friends. And so you just gotta get clarity about that, understand about, and be willing to have the uncomfortable conversation with them. Right. Because I literally remember I came to them and I was like, I know you guys hate when I talk about business, so, I'm just gonna stop doing it, but I need you to never ask me about how business is going.

Nick: So, setting boundaries.

Michael: Yeah. Totally. A hundred percent. And I think that's just it. You gotta set boundaries and if people don't respect your boundaries, like, I hate to say it, but you probably have to take 'em outta your life.

Nick: Yep. It's pretty simple, isn't it? It's easier to have than done. I mean, that's been my hardest thing, setting boundaries, because I've naturally been a people pleaser. And it sounds, you know, it sounds simple, but it's, it's pretty tough to do. So you gotta, you know, face that fear as well of being able to do that and set them and you said, if people don't respect it, then you know, it's not gonna work.

Michael: Yeah. I mean, it is what's not hard to do. You know what I'm saying? What's not difficult in life, it all is, but you have to make a choice what do you want? I'll tell you something for real and people are gonna not love what I'm about to say. But if you're not willing to do the thing that you need to do, you don't get to complain. If you're not willing to show up and execute and follow through on what you know in your heart is true, shut up. Nobody cares. And now, I'm not trying to be crass about that, but it's your life. I don't live for you. I don't breathe for you. I don't love for you. And so, you know, people will say, yeah, but you make it sound so easy. F*ck no, it ain't easy. None of this sh*t's easy, man. I don't remember a day in my life that's ever been easy. But you have to make hard decisions because without them, you'll never know who you truly are.

Nick: And that's such a great reminder what you're saying there, because I think what we've been conditioned for now is through social media, through comparison thinking, I just want this perfect life, I wanna find that thing and we forget that it's not meant to be easy. So reminding yourself daily, Hey, it's not meant to be easy and who would want it to be easy anyway? Because if it was easy, then there wouldn't be meaning or purpose. If everyone would just ha thing was handed to you, would you really actually want it then? It's got no meaning, you know? So, it's like reminding yourself that, but it's hard to do and like, it was another question I had with comparison and even if you are living on your purpose and doing things you want to do how do you not get distracted from all of the noise out there and all of the different things and because it's just never ending. It's like, you know, you wanna do a podcast? Okay, great. I'm doing my podcast now. I really wanna do it. Oh. But now, why do I keep doing my podcast when there's 2 million out there and there's people doing better and I'm stuck here and I can't get it to where I want to go. And that part of it as well is like a really difficult thing to navigate is the, you know, strategies you have in place for that kind of thing.

Michael: So, two things came to mind. One, Bruce Lee has an amazing quote. He said, don't ask for a life that is easy, ask for the tools to navigate a hard life. I messed it up a little bit, but that's the context. And so, you gotta be willing to like face reality like, life's gonna be hard, it's hard for everybody. I got mentors of my life, literally who are billionaires, their sh*t's hard too, they got all the money in the world, they have planes, they have jets, they have helicopters, they have giant mansions, their lives are still hard that's just how this works. But the hard differentiates when you choose it versus you allow it to choose you and that really comes down to having massive clarity. But I like what you said about the podcast thing, ‘cause I get it, man. I have a top 40 show in the world, we're number eight in a couple of countries, top 40 in America like, you know, that came from four years ago, nobody listening at episode one or two or six, or 25 or 75, or 150 or 200 and now we're almost to 300, right? And so to me, I ask myself like, how bad do you want it, man? How bad do you want it? Because like, at the beginning, everybody's motivated and rah rah, they're like, yes, I'm gonna go do this. And then they realize they gotta put in the f*cking work. And if you do not know why you're willing to put in the work, then you're gonna quit. And for me, like I will never quit. I will never quit ever on my dreams. I know exactly what I want. I said to myself this year, I was like, I want the number one mental health podcast in the world, might take f*cking nine years, man. I don't know, but I ain't stopping, right? Think about this like there's a drive in you, you're here, it's a Saturday, obviously there's a reason most people are like, oh man, I'm just, I'll reschedule. It's okay. You know it's funny man, when people email me and they're like, I'm gonna reschedule, I won't do their show. I mean, contextually, right? If you're sick, you got COVID, like, fine, whatever. But if you're like, I'm gonna go to the beach today, I'm like, well, you don't want it bad enough and my times important. It's the only asset that I have that I cannot replace. I will not come on your show ‘cuz you don't take this seriously. And so in this, I'm like, you know, get massive clarity about what you want and apply like podcast removed, apply it to anything. What do you want? What do you want? Massive clarity about it. Write it down, move towards it every day until it comes because as long as you don't quit, you'll probably get it. It might take you 17 years, right? But how bad do you want it?

You know, one of the things I think about is Sharon Lechter wrote a book called Three Feet from Gold. And it's very simple, I'll summarize it here for you. The idea is that tomorrow could be the day that you finally get what you wanted, but you quit today. Right?

And so, for me, when I get very pointed in a direction, and I'll say this too, like I understand I'm type A, I get that. I'm like, quote unquote Alpha. I get that too. But I also know the truth about who I am and I'm f*cking stubborn, dude like, that is my number one-character trait, also my number one-character flaw. And so, because I know that and understand about myself, I'm able to look at the world through that. And I say to myself, what do I want? Like, I'll give you great context. I don't know if you know him or not, Grant Cardone in Miami last weekend, having a VIP party with the guy, take in pictures, smiling, meeting his team, hanging out, you know? And it's like, not that long ago, I couldn't afford $5 for a book, you know what I'm saying? I've invested tremendous amount of money into my personal development. I've worked personally with Tom Bilyeu and Tony Robbins. Right. But I couldn't do that 10 years ago. I just stayed focused, man. And I'm thinking about like, how do I work with people even no disrespect when I say this, people even bigger than them, how do I end up getting into a room with a president? How do I become the national spokesperson for abuse in America? How do I become the guy that the media picks up when they need to talk about it, right? Like, I want to build something massive in my life. And I think part of the problem, Nick, is that people's dreams are just too f*cking small, your dreams are just too simple. They're too easy, and so you're not driven to move towards them. People are like, yeah, well, I just wanna write a book. I'm like, why don't you write the best book ever written in the history of the world, ever? Right? Why don't you push yourself to that? People are like, oh, I wanna do a marathon, I'm like, great. Why don't you do it as hard and as fast as you ever could and break world records? I'm not saying you will. I don't even think that the crossing the finish line is the point of this, it's the effort. I only look at myself through the lens of the effort that I put into the mission, not the goal, because every time I've ever crossed a big goal, literally, dude, and you hear people say this, and I don't think people understand it until it actually happens. So, I will say that, but every time I've ever hit a monster goal, Grant Cardone investing in my company, becoming a business partner, you mean people want, Grant Cardone is a f*cking business partner like everyone, you know what happened after 30 seconds later I was like, all right, what's next? And it just like, for a moment, I sat in it and I was thrilled and then literally 30 seconds later, I was like, all right, cool. Great, wasn't actually as huge of a moment as I thought it was gonna be. And the thing is totally you know, pick this thing, move towards it. But I aligned myself with the mission of getting to that moment. Did I execute? Did I show up? Did I work on Sundays? Did I grind? Did I do what I needed to do? Did I learn? And the truth is, Nick, most people they have these big, lofty dreams. A – hey don't want to put in the work, and B – they don't understand the truth and the reality that they aren't good enough yet. 41:27 they aren't good enough yet and you can be. But you're gonna have to put in the work, you're gonna have to learn, you're gonna have to educate, you're gonna have to invest in yourself, you're gonna have to be in the right rooms and learn from the right people and show up every day. And my goals, man, they're 37 years away, the stuff I want to do is so freaking far away. I'm not even remotely good enough yet. I haven't even put the shoes on to walk on the f*cking track to get there yet. Right. But I know that about myself. So, I say, what do I need to do today for tomorrow?

Nick: Well, I'm gonna have to listen to what you just said there myself, probably on repeat every day because it's incredibly relevant, it's so good. And everything you're saying there, like when I wanted to get a book publishing deal and do that and then I remember when I got the deal, we launched the book, like what you said, a day after, I'm like, oh, okay, great. You know, big deal. What's next? And then you forget you even did it and you sort of, whenever you're in that mindset, you fall into that. So, I think I guess reminding yourself what's my actual vision, my mission, my purpose not having, I think the timeframe thinks so relevant what you said as well, being realistic about, hey, this is to get to where I eventually wanna get, it's not gonna happen overnight. It might take a long time. I think when we are thinking, no, I've gotta get there quicker, then you go crazy because you can't sort of pull things off that quick. So, forget all of that, forget the goals, work out day in, day out, what's my mission? What's my purpose? How am I gonna go about it? And just forget everything else. And if you just keep doing that, then you can also be nimble about, well, it might happen in a different way than I imagined, or this might happen, but if you're fixating on just this specific goal, it can really just throw you off track and it's not sustainable like you're saying, so true.

Michael: Yeah. And people fail to understand what they can do over a long period of time. I think one of the biggest lies in the world ever in history, like this is my opinion, the biggest lie ever told to human beings is that patience is a virtue because it's not. Patience is a f*cking skill. You gotta craft that sh*t. You gotta learn it, you gotta hone it, you gotta forge it in the fire and the steam and the smoke, and you gotta pound it with the iron and pull it out and reshape it and do patience is a f*cking skill, man. And you've gotta be massively patience for your dreams because the truth is like, I even think about this like, ‘cuz of the context of this conversation, do I have a top podcast? Yes, but it ain't number one, it took me four years to get where I am. So, let's say it takes another six to get to number one. Well buckle the f*ck up. Yeah, buckle up, let's go. And so, the thing is, you've gotta want that so badly that you're willing to move like your life depends on it every single day while simultaneously recognizing it's still gonna take you longer than you can ever imagine. And I think that's kind of the key to this people get so caught up in this idea that they're like, man, I need it now, you ain't ready for it now. or you would have it. Something's not copacetic or you would have it, something ain't where you need to be in life, or it would be right here. And so, you've gotta be able to leverage that and understand the truth of it. Right. I mean, I think about that in all the things in business and relationships and family, in everything, it's not just about the goals, you probably aren't ready for whatever it is that you want ‘cuz you haven't put in the work, you haven't done the due diligence to deserve it. Right. And I know that's a thing people are not gonna like to hear.

Nick: And I guess you can only in hindsight it's like the John Len quote, you know, life only makes sense backwards but it has to be their thoughts. And like you're saying, you know, the thing when it connects, you'll probably look back and be like, thank f*ck that I didn't get success earlier, because that would've put me on this other path, and I actually needed these things to f*ck up. I needed this to happen. I needed that to happen. And then it's turned, it's all connected to be something bigger than you could have potentially ever even imagined.

Michael: I love that you just said that. I've done hundreds of shows, I never heard anybody say that before. And I wanna point out something really important about my own story. At 26, I had everything that I ever wanted, and my life was a disaster because I wasn't ready for it. And that's the truth about, I wasn't ready, that's why my life was a disaster. I hadn't learned the tools. Look, I'm literally gonna play out in real time, haven't learned the tools, hadn't got the coaching, hadn't been in the right rooms, hadn't educated myself, hadn't healed, hadn't gone through therapy, hadn't got certified, hadn't done all the wasn't ready, wasn't ready, got everything I wanted, wasn't ready. Right. And real talk, I wasted a lot of money, a lot of energy, a lot of relationships to learn that lesson and I'm really glad it happened. I'm so, that I destroyed my life.

Nick: Exactly. Well, I mean, it's like you wouldn't be here doing what you're doing now, having this new vision that's probably a thousand times bigger than what you had back then if you didn't have all of that happen. I think a lot of the time it's a natural tendency for, and I fall into this, even though I am so aware of it I'm like, I huge pitcher, thinker, and I've got crazy goals and they're actually all forming and I can see very clearly how it'll happen. But then in the minutia of it's very difficult because I'll get caught up in thinking, oh, well what the hell you know, are you're looking at other people's lives advancing? Why is mine not? I know that's why, because all of these things happen and I'm on my own path and I needed that to happen. Then when you're clear, you can understand it, but it's so easy to get caught up in the day-to-day of thinking, ah, but what the f*ck am I doing? I'm not on the traction, but it has to happen like every single thing that happened, like I'm so great, I would never do it again. But I'm grateful that I crashed a car and almost killed myself and my best friend. I'm so grateful that nothing, you know, he survived and I survived and I learned from that and I'd never make that mistake again. But making that mistake, if I didn't make that mistake, I would probably not be on the path I went on. So, it's like, every part of it connects to the next thing. So, we sort of need to philosophically look at life that way.

Michael: Yep. I guess, I'm laughing because I'm sitting here, I'm just like in my head real time. I'm like, I did that shit, that shit, that shit, that shit that, like I'm really glad I did. I'm also really, really glad that I never got arrested, been in handcuffs many times, but luckily had outsmarted the cops. I think I'm passing statutes of limitations on most of those things, but we won't talk about 'em today. And I look at those experiences and I'm like, my life is so different, man. My nights aren't partying and strip clubs and drugs and throwing money and getting in fancy cars and all these expensive dinners. My life is personal development, reading books, digesting information, speaking, having conversations with people impacting the world, creating massive change, trying to build an empire, taking care of myself, challenging the narrative, who I am. Right? That's a completely different world. Completely different world. And again, it's been 11 years – 11 years of this process and it's just such a reminder that you know, where you are today does not have to be where you are tomorrow, but you've gotta be willing to put in that work and show up every day, because if you're not, nothing's gonna be different.

My therapist told me the most important thing anything's ever anyone has ever told me. He goes, change happens when you become who you are. And so, until you get to that place in your life where you're living life on your terms, nothing is different, nothing is different. And so, you just gotta keep pushing into that every single day. And, you know, all these years later, all this time later, I look at my life and I'm like, I feel really good about who I am. I love my life. I can go look in that mirror and be happy, but the truth is I'm not even remotely close to who I want to be and that's not this thing about not having self-worth, it's about I know what I can do. And know what I'm capable of doing. And that's the thing that, when you come from a traumatic background that's taken from you, that's the thing that I hope we give back to people is recognizing like, I'm not special. People all the time will be like, oh, but you are special, no, I'm not. I'll know sh*t about nothing except that I don't know what I don't know. And so because of that, I'm willing to go and learn it, I'm willing to figure it, I'm willing to raise my hand and go and seek help and guidance. And I invest in myself, in my community. Dude, I do charitable work. I'm on boards, I volunteer all the time. I show up for other people. I got the podcast and the books and this isn't like me flexing. I wanna be clear. It's just laying out the differentiation between my life is only about me and then my life is about service and that's the difference, man. You know, so many of y'all are f*cking selfish, man, you're chilling, you're talking about I'm depressed playing video games all night. You're only thinking about yourself. You ain't thinking about nobody else. You're not going to be of service to your community. You're like, man, I have so much anxiety about the world. Well, what are you doing to go and make the world a better place? Y'all talking about, I'm a f*cking warrior for change, b*tch, you ain't done nothing but post on Facebook. What are you doing? Right? And like, that's the truth about this. You want to change the world, go change the f*cking world. But you have to change you first by recognizing that every single day that you're putting yourself down, you're living into those limiting beliefs, you're letting other people dictate what you're capable of it's gonna be the same in 10 years, that to me, is devastating. And that's my hope is that these kinds of conversations will change that narrative for people and just let 'em think about the truth for a minute. You're in the f*cking matrix.

Nick: Yeah. I couldn't agree more, mate. It's like I've seen that film. I think the first one I've seen about over a hundred times.

Michael: I'm right there with you. No joke.

Nick: And I think with anxiety, the thing that can often be in the way is that, we're telling it, we're sitting there thinking, thinking, thinking. But you just go and do something, do anything, do something small, it's instantly gives you that power back. And I love what you were saying before about being of service because the way I think about that is think about trying to help people in a selfish way in the sense that, you know, if I relate to public speaking when I'm going out and speaking at an organization or whatever it is, I'll feel amazing after doing it myself like that's what I'm getting. So, you're doing something that is giving someone else something, but you are also getting something massive out of yourself. I've never, out of any of these kinds of things, nothing's ever made me feel better than, whether it's a podcast, interview, the book, and the public speaking and hearing people, even if it's one person that actually got something life changing or a small change even out of it. And you should just try and then think, okay, that makes me feel good. I'm gonna look at it selfishly that I wanna do more of that cause I wanna feel good and that byproduct will help more people. And you know, that builds and it's really powerful.

Michael: Yeah. And look man, I love that you said that ‘cuz I believe in the same thing. I don't think there's anything wrong with knowing that you're boosting your ego by going and being a good person. And look, and people who are like, Mother Teresa was a saint, I bet she had more self-esteem than anybody you ever met in your life, dude. You know? Mother Teresa was flying around her f*cking private jets, speaking the king's, presidents eating at the finest restaurants in the world like, don't tell me that person didn't have, like, she was selfless. No, she wasn't. She was putting herself first by doing the thing that filled her cup. Don't ever forget that.

Nick: We're all human. You know, we've got these innate desires, innate things that we exactly, no one is sort of the idealism that, it's painted out to be, but we can try and be the best version of ourselves.

Michael: Yeah, a hundred percent. And look, I'll tell you the truth, I think the only way you can be the best version of yourself is by going and being of service because you'll find out that who you are isn't yet good enough. And on a long enough timeline, you will be able to help people in ways that you cannot help them today.

Nick: Yeah, absolutely. So what do you say to someone that is, lacking purpose, feeling stuck and just doesn't even know, not only doesn't know where to begin, just doesn't even know what they care about, you know, isn't able to access that? What's the first step they can take?

Michael: Turn off your f*cking TV, like for real. I'm not being crass for real. Get off of social media. Put your phone. Go for a walk. Dude, I dare you. Go for a walk without your phone. I dare you. Go exist in the world. Go sit on your bed for half an hour in silence and watch what you discover about yourself. You ain't gonna like it. You're not gonna like it. I'm gonna tell you right now, you're not gonna like it because you've been hiding from it. This is the same shit as like when you try to go to bed at night and you can't sleep and you're like, I wish my brain would turn off. Your brain won't turn off cuz you're lying to yourself every time. And it's like, yo, mother*cker, pay attention. You what you want the first step. Be honest with your f*cking self about your shit. Be honest about how you're not showing up in your life, how you're not taking care of your relationship, how you're bullshitting at work, how your only connection with human beings is going and drinking and watching the game, how all the time you lie to people, how you don't do the thing that you said you're gonna do and then you blame the world for it. Go get for real with yourself for a minute. Look, I'm gonna tell you right now, I know people are like that guy's an asshole. And ‘cuz I'm telling you the truth; my job is not to be your friend. I am your coach. I'm not here to cuddle you. I'm here to help you win a f*cking championship. And the only way you're gonna do that is you're gonna have to show up for yourself day in and day out. You're gonna have to put in the work, you're gonna have to learn, you're gonna have to reconcile the truth about who you are, and it ain't as good as you think, I promise. I believe that for me too in this moment, you know, one of my favorite things, Nick, man, when I get on a coaching call with my coach, and he's like, have you thought about this? About who you are? And I'm like, oh, that hurt. But I needed it. Thank you. Makes me a better person. And I'm willing to sit in that, in that moment and be like, God damn, he was f*cking right. I'm not good enough yet. Good. Now I have a direction to move. You gotta be unabashedly and nakedly honest with yourself all the time. ‘Cuz look, you can lie to the world, you can lie to your husband or your wife, you can lie to your coworkers, you can't lie to that mirror and people are always like, what's the first step? Shut the f*ck up and listen.

Nick: So powerful and so much harder to do in this day and age than ever with all the noise we have out there. So, people just take that plunge and looking at reframing how we see fear, look at fear as something that is a positive thing to confront. You know, fear is our vehicle to get to that next step. I think failure, like reframing failure, I wanna fail at things, come on, let's try and fail as many times as possible because then you are gonna face the fears and do it. And failure is not failure, it's learning. You know, you learn so much more from failure than, just getting your way all the time. So, I think if people can reframe all of those things and just live by that daily, things change so quickly.

Michael: Yeah. And I'll add to that, right? I think people also more importantly, need to understand that nobody gives a sh*t about you. They don't care. You're so caught up about what other people think they ain't thinking about you. They're not, Nick, were you thinking about me before this show two weeks ago before you messaged me? No, never. I never crossed your mind. Was I thinking about all the people who have interacted with in my life? Nope. Not until they crossed my path. Strangers on the street looking at me. I'm like, I don't know. Good luck. What did your opinion of me have to do with anything? You gotta be willing to let go of this idea that people are judging you and you hear this all the time, I'm not telling you shit. People ain't told you before, we're telling you this shit cuz it's right.

Nick: That's true. Yeah. No one cares. You know, it's like, it's so interesting, isn't it? Cuz we all think in our own head that everyone's gonna be hanging off every little thing we do and we're trying to what if this, what if that or worried about being judged and how on earth, even if you make the biggest fool of yourself possible. People aren't gonna sit there and think about that all day, every day, they're gonna probably, if they witness it, react to it in that moment and then go on to their own, thousand problems that they're not dealing with and we just don't have the bandwidth to sit there and worry about other people like that.

Michael: Yeah. And think about this too, man. Like even on social, yo, I get canceled all the time on social like for real. It's crazy. I've got hundreds of messages, I'm not stopping cuz you don't like me. I'm not. Look, that's the thing and that's not me being a crass person that's not me being hubris or egotistical. It's like, man, everybody's got an opinion about something these days. Your opinion means nothing to me. And that doesn't mean I don't love you or cherish you or value you. If you're in my circle and you tell me some shit I need to hear, I'm all for it. If I don't know you from Adam, I got nothing for you.

Nick: Exactly. It's so true. You just gotta cure out your own life and not be caught up in that, you know, but be able to have an open discussion but not need to have everyone, you know, validate your own opinion ‘cuz it's just not possible.

Michael: And the second you stop caring, I promise you, the second you stop caring about what people think about you, you'll walk through that door.

Nick: Yeah. And changing, you know, not thinking that there's some magical solution like even if you do achieve all these things that the life you're wanting to do, it's not about what the achievement is or you know, whatever. It's like what you were saying, you know, you've got the billionaires or these different people that they're still gonna have daily problems because, you know, I've got a mentor in Australia and the thing he said to me is worth, you know, $3 - $400 million and it always stuck in my head cuz he told me, I was telling him how, you know, get anxiety and you're wanting to do all these different things and it never stops and even when I get there, what's next? Blah, blah, blah. And he said when he was, you know, 19 and had no money, he didn't feel any different to what he feels right now when he's in his late sixties, you know, he is got all this money, he's doing all this amazing philanthropy work. He literally doesn't feel any better. And the all he learned was. Okay. My mind's never gonna change, that's how I'm wired. So I'm gonna keep being ambitious and keep living by that but whenever I get caught up in, you know, thinking that there's gonna be that next magical thing, I've gotta remind myself, no, this won't go away, this feeling, but it's not true. I'm just gonna enjoy the process and just keep going back to that. And really, it's pretty profound when you hear it from these people that are in these positions, it's sort of just what more reminders do we need to get it, you know, just living life right now. If we can't enjoy it right now, then you're never gonna enjoy it.

Michael: Yeah, a hundred percent.

Nick: So we've got five closing questions we end with these can be, don't have to be long answers, whatever comes to mind. And before that for our listeners, I'll put this in all the show notes when we put the episode out there, but where can we send them to learn more about you and what you're doing?

Michael: Yeah, man, I'm everywhere on social at Michael Unbroken. But I will tell you everything I teach is for literally everything is for free on my podcast. If you go to thinkunbrokenpodcast.com or just search, Think Unbroken.

Nick: Great. Awesome. And again, for anyone listening, we'll have all the links in the show notes. These final questions, the first one, I mean, you talked a lot about your childhood, so one of the first question we have here is, what's your best memory from your childhood?

Michael: You know, it is hard, man. I actually talked to my therapist about this one time. I was like, dude, I don't have any good memories from childhood, everything always felt like it was flooded with pain. And he goes, dude, that's the truth for some people. And I thought about he actually asked me that question one time, years and years ago, and I sat and I thought about it for a very, very, very long time. And it was like, you know what it was, it was on Saturdays even in the chaos of everything, every Saturday, my mom would put on Michael Jackson thriller and we would listen to the whole record start to finish. And for 45 minutes there was peace in our house.

Nick: Yeah, there you go. Wow. Oh, well, thank you for sharing that. What do you think currently is the biggest burden on mental health in society?

Michael: The fact that people act like their past doesn't impact their present. Childhood trauma is the biggest elephant in the room in a mental health care, nobody's talking about it, dude. Well, I'll give you a perfect example. I wrote this first book, Understanding and Overcoming Childhood Trauma like you see the title, I'm pulling this up only to show the wording. Do you think people wanna read this on the f*cking train? You know what I mean? No, they don't. And so, I've sold thousands and thousands and thousands and thousands of copies of that book, nobody sends me pictures of it. Nobody reviews it. You never see anybody talk. Why? Because it's the most shame filled f*cking thing that we are not responsible for on planet Earth.

Nick: Yeah. Well, I couldn't agree more. And it's like what I'm trying to do with Move Your Mind, my organization as well, it's like, how do we do more preventative action? How do we create, change that conversation? How do we make it acceptable for men to show vulnerability to do what we are doing here? Being open sharing stories, like, why the hell are we not doing it? It's the most important thing we can do. Why do we feel ashamed about it are we human? You know? It's crazy and it's so simple to fix, but it's so highly complicated because of the layers and layers and layers and layers of things to undo.

Michael: So, yeah. Well, we start to fix it right here, man.

Nick: Absolutely. We just can't have enough of these conversations. What's your personal definition of happiness?

Michael: Living life on my terms and going and looking in that mirror and being okay with the reflection on the other side.

Nick: Great answer. So I've got two more here, what are you most afraid of in life?

Michael: Regret simple. Number one thing that terrifies me is I'm gonna be on my deathbed and be like, I didn't go all the way, I want it all man. I want it all. I want love and relationship and happiness and fulfillment and community and a giant company and impact. I wanna be a New York Times bestselling author, have a helicopter, own land, give back, build a f*cking school like I wanna do everything, dude. I wanna foster kids. I wanna have a smoking hot, amazing relationship like I want it f*cking all dude. All of it, period. Right.

Nick: Great. And why can't you? Exactly. Why not? I love that and it's so true. Then, and people that get interviewed on their deathbed, that's the one thing they say, you know what would've you changed? It's regret. It's like, I wish I just tried this. Or why was I so worried about that? That's all you're gonna care about. It doesn't matter if you even get it or not at least if you know a hundred percent in your heart the things you really care about, that you've given everything, every ounce of energy you can put into it, then what more can we do then we can be, you know, at peace. But if you know there's something missing there, then you're gonna have regret. So, final one, what are you most proud of?

Michael: I mean, honestly, dude, just being who I am, deciding who I am and being that person. It's not the accomplishments, it's not the accolades, it's not the money, ain't the clothes. I mean, should I wear the same clothes every day? It's none of that. It's just me being happy with who I am. I'm good. You strip all this away from me, I'm still good, that's the game.

Nick: Yep. Remove everything else. And you still can do, you know, the things it's not reliant on permission from anyone, I'm doing it regardless take everything away. I still do it, you know, it's like such a great answer. Well, Michael, thank you so much, I mean, I could talk to you for hours about this, maybe we'll have to do another podcast episode just on the Matrix, I'd love to do that. I wanna make like a side podcast just on the matrix and get different people on there and that kind of thing. But yeah, thank you again for coming on, I know how busy you are and like, it's been incredible. I've like learned so much myself from this. I know our listeners will love what you're talking about. So, we really appreciate you offering your time and coming and doing this and it's been so great having this time to get to know you so really again, appreciate it.

Michael: Yeah, man, my pleasure and I got massive gratitude for you because you given me this platform and opportunity makes you a part of my mission and that makes you a part of the brotherhood and I appreciate you, my friend.

Nick: Thank you so much.