Transform Your Life: 10 Innovative Ideas with Gino Wickman

 Michael: What's up, Unbroken Nation! Hope you're doing well wherever you are in the world today. I'm very excited to be back with you with another episode with my friend Gino Wickman. Gino, my man, what is happening in your world today?

Gino: I am so looking forward to this, you are happening in my world today, Michael. So, I'm really looking forward to spending time and this might be one of the most unique podcasts I've done in terms of the world that I'm typically living in. And so, what's happening today is I feel like I will be stretched and I feel as though you and I are gonna have quite a conversation.

Michael: Man, that's certainly my hope. You know, and I've interviewed a lot of people over the years and when I listened to and did my research on you, because I always like, do your damn research. One of the things that really struck with me is you said something when you were like 32 years old, and this is where I want to have the jump off point of the conversation. Obviously, we have a huge background in entrepreneurs and building businesses and helping hundreds of thousands of businesses, and we'll get into that. But I wanna start this from the mental health aspect, cuz obviously that's the context of the show. And you were talking about how this idea at 32 is like you were afraid to be who you were, you were in this concrete wall and you were stuck. And man, I resonate with that so much because for me, at 26, that's where I was and I think many people listening to this have had that experience where they're like, I just don't understand how to me. How did you navigate that?

Gino: Well, I'm still navigating. I've never finished, but as I look back, you know, a couple key things right around that period of time, it was the book Celestine Prophecies that woke me up that like, whoa, man, I am pure energy and it was like, okay, I'm looking at this world a whole another way. I took the Landmark Forum program and that helped me realize how vulnerable I was not. And when you talk about the concrete wall, I describe it as like a 12-layer thick concrete wall I had built around myself to protect me from the world. And right around that time, I went from being a millionaire at 30 years old to $200,000 in debt by 33 years old so, I was slowly burning through all my and going broke, and so that was a very, very wild time. And so it was 30 though that I would say the awakening began and so for the last 25 years, I'm now 55 years old. I have been doing what I describe as shedding layers. So, to your point, you know, how did I do it? Well, I didn't do it, how am I doing it? I just tend to shed another layer at least once a year, a big layer and I always jokingly like to say, with every layer that is shed, there will be tears. So, I just keep getting closer and closer and closer and closer to my soul, that's my goal, is to just ultimately fully free my soul.

Michael: Yeah, I mean, that's the task, right? Like, you know, you sit, you think about it and it's like there's this reflection you have of yourself in the mirror every day. And we have the choice and the ability to be like, all right, is this really who I am. And I find myself frequently in that space where I just stand in and I go, what the fuck are you doing today? Who are you? And you always hear people say, like, do things that you would do if you were the person that you wanted to be. And I think there's some practicality to that, but I always think there's like, misnomer in it where it's like, but most people have no fucking clue who they want to be to begin with. And so, as you're going through that transition and now, you're in this place where, fuck, you've had all this money and now you lost all this money, it's gotta just mess with your head in this intense way. How did you start to reframe and create a framework of who it is that you did want to become that 20 something years later leads you to this conversation with me today?

Gino: Yeah. And on that, if you will humor me and just allow me like a three-to-four-minute riff in terms of answer that question ‘cuz I have to create context because it's really hard to give you like a one sentence answer to that. And what I would suggest and where I wanna start contextually, is, you know, I am simply a guy who is obsessed about helping entrepreneurs and so that's what I do. And I learned that I got the first glimpse of, that's why I'm here in my late twenties, and so that's the big picture context. Now, what I've done since then is I have spent my life helping entrepreneurs and I've created five pieces of content in the world that helps these entrepreneurs and it's everything from helping someone decide if they are and how to start a business to finding their perfect visionary integrator match to running a great business, to living what we call the EOS life. And this fifth piece of content, and the reason we're talking and why this timing is so unique is everything up until that piece of content was about external outer world success, helping that entrepreneur succeed by every imaginable outer world metric. They got the business, they got the people, they got the money, they got the stuff, they got the accolades. But what I realize is they get to the top of the mountain, as did I, and there's still feeling empty in other words, there's still something missing, there's a void. And the fifth piece of content, the 10 disciplines, is now going inside and doing the inner work. And so, for me it wasn't this, when you talk about people being the future person they want to be or knowing who they are, you know, I'm not so, so sure I know who I'm gonna be in 20 years. I have a pretty good idea what I was able to discover is that I'm here to help entrepreneurs. What's really cool about the timing with you and I in this conversation, in this inner world conversation, it is all about going to that trauma and that pain and realizing that we've got some stuff to clean up in there. And so, my point in all of that though, is I think we're always a work in progress, I think it keeps getting clearer and clearer. You know, at 23 years old, I was selling real estate, and here I am now having sold 2 million books, 180,000 entrepreneurs follow the system that I have helped and now I'm doing this crazy work of going inside and helping to heal trauma. Could I have predicted that 30 years ago? I don't think so. So, it's always a journey, and I'm just always moving forward and I'm always growing. So hopefully in that big picture context and story, there's a semblance of an answer to your question.

Michael: Yeah. And I think that sometimes, I don't know if this has been true for you, but I look at my life as I've really always been an entrepreneur. I started my first business when I was only eight years old, and in my twenties, I landed a job with a corporate company did super well was miserable though, dude. I fucking had to wear khakis to work. I'm like, I hate this life. And then I started my own thing and for the last 13 years I've been an entrepreneur and it is the only sense of true freedom that I feel like I can have as a human being. And secondarily, or probably even primarily, the one thing that I know about being an entrepreneur is like, you're gonna find out who the fuck you are like you're gonna really find out who you are and what you're made out of, not in this like in intense, aggressive way, even though it might sound like that coming out, but in those moments of solace and silence you like, whoa, there's a lot of heaviness here, there's a lot of pressure, and I think that a lot of people succumb to that. And as you may know, entrepreneurs and business owners take their lives at an exponential rate compared to people who work in most other industries. And I'm wondering what is it about the pressure that gets to people? Is it the expectation? Is it self-imposed? Is it society? Like, why are we losing so many of our compatriots right now?

Gino: Man, that is so good, and wow. I want to go in about eight different directions on that. And so, hold on, I'm focusing myself and I wanna whittle it down to about two or three things, because where I wanna start is, you know, again, I always like to create a little bit of context, but you know, your audience is certainly not all entrepreneurs, and so I always like to kind of manage expectations and making sure we're speaking to your audience but many of them are driven, okay? And what you're talking about is this driven DNA, this driven gene that is a blessing and a curse, it gets us in a lot of trouble, it gives us superhuman strength to accomplish a lot in the world, but there's a lot of pain and a black trail we tend to leave behind us with that incredible drive. So, I would start there.

Number two, for those that are entrepreneurs are thinking about it. My strong belief that I write in my book, entrepreneurial leap, is you have to have six essential traits to succeed as an entrepreneur.

Visionary, driven, passionate, problem solver, risk taker, responsible.

So, you must possess those six because it is so challenging and it is so brutal to be an entrepreneur because it's a series of getting knocked down every day, every week, every month, and most people are not built for getting knocked down like that. And now to jump forward to this where I am in terms of what I call, what's next naturally is the entrepreneur typically builds an empire on their trauma. In other words, that drive is so strong that they're able to push through all of that pain and literally use that pain as a fuel, what I'm now realizing is that you can heal that pain, you can heal that trauma. My biggest fear is when I did, I would lose the fuel, I would lose the drive, it's just the opposite. Your drive is magnified, your fuel is coming from a different place because it's coming from an inner force. And so, with that said, you know, the pain, the trauma, the drive, the getting knocked down, you know, as I'm sure you talk a lot about on your show, it stems from something that typically happened in our childhood and it's different for all of us, but we're always trying to protect that wound, hide that wound, and that's where the pain and the trauma is coming from. And when you heal that, and you realize we are all just balls of pure energy, some of us burn bright and some of us don't burn so bright. Well, we don't burn bright they're just energy blocks and when you'll just go inside and face the pain, face the blocks, face what you're talking about, what I have experienced is it dissipates not overnight, it's a journey, it's a process that's the shedding of the layers. But that's the best answer I have for you there when we could spend three hours on that question for what that for.

Michael: Yeah, totally. When you're on this place of shedding, was there or has there been a moment maybe you haven't shared so publicly that really transformed you, that has helped you really shed, because for me, when I look at this, one of the greatest moments of healing for me, I was in a men's group therapy and I was so adverse to do being anything combative with men, that to be emotionally vulnerable. I mean, I must have been in that group for, I don't know, six to nine months, somewhere in that window, 29, 30 years old, and just finally just broke down in tears. And dude, it's literally, it was so terrifying, it was so fucking scary but it changed my life forever because I was like, wait a second, you mean it's okay to be vulnerable with men and you don't have to always be combative or talk about money and hookups and cars and things that don't matter? And that moment actually changed my relationship with men entirely and led this to the place where I've been able to create brotherhood and create companionship and create really this entire thing that I'm building in this company because I was like, wait, I can be vulnerable and be like, I'm having a hard fucking day. Call my buddy, dude, what do I do? And so, I'm curious, has there been a moment as you've been shedding those layers through your entrepreneurship and endeavors and what you're building and creating in all of your systems where you're like, that changed my life?

Gino: Yeah. I would say a couple things to that. The first is I was blessed at a very young age in my late twenties to become a member of the Entrepreneur's Organization, be on a forum with other fellow entrepreneurs and start to get really vulnerable with them and them with me and so I got a taste very early, so those walls started to come down. Like I said, my landmark forum experience was very helpful in realizing how vulnerable I was not. And then I've had the blessing for the last 23 years of going to Boulder, Colorado with two of my closest friends we've done it every year and we go to shed a layer, and I'm the crybaby in the group because I end up crying for some reason on every single one of these trips because I shed a big layer on every trip. So, for me, I got introduced to that at an early age, and I was comfortable being vulnerable, but that wasn't necessarily solving all of my trauma. And so, the big aha moment for me in the last couple years and the book Untethered Soul, I think was the trigger for me, it was like it was always there, everything in that book is everything I've always known, but it like put it all together for me because the last couple years have been very profound for me in terms of the level of joy that I'm experiencing and the piece that I'm experiencing. But it was this, so when I talk about the layers of concrete that I built around myself to protect myself from those childhood wounds and trauma. In the book, he teaches this analogy or shares this analogy of how we built this like mechanical structure around us that protects us from hitting our thorn as he likes to describe it. Well, the way that I describe it is with those layers, we have masterfully built system around us, these layers around us, that when something comes at us that's about to hit that trauma we are so masterful, we've built such an amazing structure we can head it off at the past so that it won't hit our stuff, hit the trauma, hit the pain. And for me, in the last couple years, there was literally a moment when I so clearly saw my structure, that structure is your ego. So, your ego is masterful, it's so intelligent. And I saw it in vivid color, it was in a meditation and I literally broke down. I mean, I literally, everything just welled up and came pouring out ‘cuz I clearly saw this masterful concoction I built and I was living with for trying to do the math all kind of started when I was seven or eight years old. So, 47 years of this masterful structure and it all came crashing down and scared the shit outta me but that was very, very profound. But then the other thing that happens is every time I think I'd had the Aha Wawa moment, and I'm cured. I'm solved, I'm fixed, this has been going on for 25 years. All that does is it just opens another door, I like, I don't know if there were a scale okay, of zero to a hundred percent and like a hundred percent is when you're completely enlightened. I don't know if I'm at like, 1% or a hundred percent. I pray to God I'm at least halfway there, but like my biggest fear, and I think it's true, is I'm like barely at 1%. The point I'm making is I don't think you're ever there; I think it's a journey, I think it's a process and so that's the most recent aha, waha moment for me to your question, but I have a scary, funny, not even scary, I just love it so much now, but I have a funny feeling, you know, there's another one coming and another one coming, and another just every time I think I've got it figured, it goes deeper and it's endless.

Michael: Yeah, I think in that when you're shedding those layers, when I have shedded those layers, when I have been at my most vulnerable, I've tried to do it in this way, in which I'm like, don't judge yourself, don't beat yourself up. Let it be. Let it exist. And I have a little bit of a feeling that every single time I've done that, business has been better. Business has grown. Connections have become better. Relationships have become better. And a part of it is like just the letting go. We hold on so tightly everybody, I'm not even talking about just entrepreneurs, we white knuckle life constantly. You know, I don't know if you're familiar with Alex Hermo, but he is been talking about this idea that we all turn to dust. And it's been sitting with me in a retrospective way where I'm like, ever since I was a kid, I was like, none of this actually really matters, so why don't we just show up and live our life the best that we can? But you know, in doing that, what happens is you end up looking at your energy, and you talk about this idea, some people burn bright, some people don't. And it's like the people who maybe they don't as much as they want, they put even more pressure on themselves and they get stuck. And then they are in this place where all their visions don't come to fruition and they're really, I mean, when you break it down, they're in their own way. And I think actually, I know because I've been in this situation and in this predicament where I was trying to do everything in one. Right. I was trying to always do everything in one. Lemme just get it done. I'll change now. I'll heal today. I'll go to fucking eight therapies today, and then I'll go do ayahuasca and then everything will be fine. And then I realized like, actually that shit doesn't work, like it doesn't work. This is a life is linear, healing is not. But on a timeline, I think people think in one-year regiments and I think really you, you talk about this and I'm wanna go into it. I think when you shift into 10-year thinking, everything becomes different. And I know that happened to me ‘cuz if I look, dude, if I look at my fucking life when I was 27 years old compared to where it is now at 37, headed into 38, you would not even know I'm the same person. 300 pounds, still chain smoking, drinking myself to sleep, probably about 40 grand in debt around that time, just got had to pay my rent by borrowing money from my girlfriend like, life was very different a decade ago. Today, international speaker, bestselling author, Grant Cardone's become a business partner like my life is very different ‘cuz I just said, all right, I'll give myself as long as it takes. And so, I'm curious, why does 10 years thinking really matter to the people who are trying to change their life?

Gino: Yeah. Fantastic. Well, again, always context so now we're into that fifth piece of content to help entrepreneurs, but really anyone in life for that matter. But it's called the 10 Disciplines for Managing and Maximizing Your Energy. And what you're talking about is discipline number one, 10-year thinking. So, we are all balls of energy and each one of these disciplines helps to magnify, manage, grow your energy so you can burn bright. The reason 10-year thinking works so well is most of us driven people, we're focused on the now, now, now. We want it now; we want it today. We want it this week. We want it this month, worst case this year. Well, when you shift your thinking to 10-year thinking, and this isn't 10-year goal setting, although you can have lots of 10 year goals, this is 10 year thinking. This is seeing yourself in a 10-year timeframe. This is thinking in multi-decade terms. In other words, I plan on being around a lot more decades, and if a bus hits me tomorrow, was a good life man, but I'm planning on being around for many, many decades and so, I think of my life in that way. And what I find, I learned this at 35 when I shifted my thinking from that because I mean, I was a driven son of a gun from 18 to 35, but when I shifted my thinking to that, there was literally a calm that came over me, a peace, I literally started to think better. I made better decisions, and I literally got there faster. I got to where I wanted to go faster by just simply slowing myself down. So, you wanna talk about what that looks like with energy and trauma and pressure and all that stuff just kind of melts away. So best answer I have for you there.

Michael: I wanna rewind you go back to 35, 36, 37. So I'm 37, I've been fortunate enough to build a couple multimillion dollar businesses. I've also been fortunate enough to lose it all and be massively in debt. So, I know what it's like to be on both sides of that. When you were the age and look a part of this show was like, I wanna learn. Right? And so, when you're my age, rewind 20 years ago what were the things that you did that became the most practical shifts that you made in getting to where you are today? Because sometimes I get in this place, man, where I'm like, okay, I've done all these things and people go, you're super successful. And I'm like, I don't feel successful, I don't feel like I've really achieved the thing I'm trying to achieve. I don't feel like, many things in my life are what I want them to be of course. I'm always moving towards them. I'm always growing. Mentorship, coaching, guidance, education, execution, obviously being the greatest form of learning. And I'm wondering when you had that shift at 35 heading into the second half of your thirties, into your forties, into your fifties, what were the things that really transpired?

Gino: Yeah, for sure. Again, I'll go back to context on this if you'll humor me for three minutes. And I'm gonna give you a very specific answer because what's important on that question is again, I am and was an entrepreneur. And so in everything that I've written and I teach, it's all from experience and so with Entrepreneurial Leap, that book is all about helping someone who thinks they're an entrepreneur, start their business, know the right business, become a successful entrepreneur. Rocket Fuel is all about as a visionary, finding your perfect integrator match. Traction is all about helping you implement EOS in your business and run a great business. And then the EOS life is all about how to live your ideal life as an entrepreneur. So, I was doing all of that, I did all of that by 35, I was that successful entrepreneur who built something pretty incredible. The reason I'm saying all that is the answer to your question, ironically, is it was right around then 20 years ago that I started to live by these 10 disciplines. So, they all started between like 20 and 25 years ago. And so, what I wanna do is I want to quickly give you a real fast, high level of what the 10 disciplines are because these are the 10 things that I did to really magnify my energy, to really magnify my performance, my output, my productivity. And so, I'll go through 'em really fast, high level and then what I always like to do, you know your audience better than I do, but the one or two that maybe jump out at you, we can go a little deeper into.

10 DISCIPLINES FOR MANAGING AND MAXIMIZING YOUR ENERGY

1. 10-year Thinking
2. Take time off
3. Know thyself
4. Be still
5. Know your hundred percent.
6. Say no often
7. Don't do $25 an hour work
8. Prepare every night
9. Put everything in one place
10. Be humble

And so, to answer your question, those are the 10 things I started doing at 35 years old that were transformative in my life.

Michael: Now out of curiosity, are those in a particular order?

Gino: Okay. But I will tell you this, I obsessed about that and there's maybe two I might flip, but honest to God, they're in a pretty darn good order. I am thrilled with the order that they're in, but I didn't fully intend that but they're in the best order I could put him in after obsessing.

Michael: Yeah, thinking through it in like first order of principles and order of magnitude, that's where my brain went ‘cuz it's entrepreneurial like that. But the one that sticks out to me that I think personally I struggle with the most and anyone who knows me personally knows this. I don't take time off. And historically I have not taken time off. And in fact, I'll go three, four years and not actually like, do any significant, like, removing myself. And it's not for the purpose of like, I must drive, drive, drive, drive, drive. Dude, I get so freaking bored if you're like, let's just watch a movie and hang out or if you're like, let's just not do anything for a day. I'm like, my brain doesn't operate, and I think a lot of people do. Now, one of them that you said, number three, which is actually one of the same principles that I teach this audience all the time, know thyself. So, I know this about myself, so I don't beat myself up about not taking the time off but a lot of people do. So many people are like, man, I feel like I'm a loser if I take a vacation, blah, blah, that's not my mentality it just doesn't interest me just to be straight up. So I'm curious, how do you parlay know thyself into all of these areas of this? Because to me, I asked you about the order ‘cuz I feel like that feels predominantly number one, but I understand there's no particular order here. So how do you know thy self in a way that allots you the space to assess all these different areas?

Gino: Yeah, I love it. You know, and I can't help myself, but to spend 30 seconds, I'd take time off because I have to challenge you and I built EOS worldwide over 15 years, grew 40% a year for 15 years, taking 150 days off a year. Taking the month of August off every year, a monthly sabbatical. And what I learned from me, what it did is it literally made me more productive. I became more productive by turning because I was more creative, I was more clear, I was my output was better because I would take time to refresh and come back into the business, seeing things clear. Now, with that said, at the end of the day, if you work every day, and I'm assuming if you mean every day, you're talking about 365 days a year for somebody like you, I just urge you to try one day. You don't need to go take 150 days off a year you would implode, just try one day and just see what happens for you. But all I can tell you is for me, I was clearer, better, more creative, I was able to hit the reset button and just much more productive when I came into the business. And it just created space for me to also do this inner work that we're talking about. So, there's my impassion to plea for you, I'll back off and let's go to what you're describing as my favorite discipline, and that's know thyself. And I purposely put no thyself third because I think it starts with 10-year thinking where you need to start thinking about every aspect of your life in 10 years and taking time off to start to create space. But know thyself is once all 10 disciplines are in place and operating in your life, and these all work together like a puzzle, this creates space for you to really go deep into this one and know thyself. And like I said earlier, this is that zero to a hundred percent thing. I don't know where it ends in terms of you knowing myself, but the way I like to teach this and describe it is my goal for you. And what this discipline is all about is that you will be yourself 100% of the time in every situation that you're in, that's the goal. But to be yourself, you cannot do that until you fully know thy self and so, it starts with knowing myself.

And so, I was like to share a quick personal story.

When I was 30, my wife threw me 30th, surprise birthday party, and I walk into this room, I hear them yell, surprise, and I'm looking into a hundred sets of eyeballs from six factions of my life, and I look around this room and quoting myself in my mind, I looked around at these six factions and I went, holy shit, who in the fuck am I gonna be today? Because what I realized is I was literal six different people. There were my employees, there were my business partners, there were my high school buddies, there were my new friends, there was my family, there was my wife's family, and I was a different person for every single one of them. So, imagine what I was doing to my energy, I was twisting myself in a knot, I was being something I wasn't. And so that was the aha moment where I said to myself, I am going to be going forward and stop bending myself into a pretzel. So, know thyself, my goal for everyone is to, what I'd like to say, let your freak flag fly. Fully free your soul and be yourself in the world, and so, it's a process. So, for me, that was 30 years ago, here I am 25 years later. And I think I'm doing pretty darn good at being myself, but man, as I keep doing this work, I realize, whoa, there's another block, there's another thing I'm doing to myself where I'm not fully trusting myself. I'm not fully unconditionally loving myself, and so it's a journey, but I am whatever the percentage is, I am a hell a lot more myself today than I was 25 years ago at 30, and I fully expect that 25 years from now, I'm gonna be a hell a lot more myself and so it's a process, it's a journey, it's all part of that shedding, but doing the work to really understand who you are and just giving yourself permission to let your freak flag fly.

Michael: Yeah. And to go a level deeper just because that resonates with me so much, it's also not caring what other people think about that flag. And that to me is the hardest aspect of healing. So, one of the things that I am a huge proponent of is I'm like, being healed is standing up on your own two feet and saying, this is who I am. Go fuck yourself if you disagree or don't like it, or want me to change or judge me for it. Right. And that's not to demean people, it's just like you don't get to decide who people are and they don't and, and they don't get to decide who you are and you have to be willing to stand in that, which is terrifying because on this one hand, here you are, you're like, this is who I am, world like me, please. I grew up seeking attention, love, admiration, trust, hope, joy, all the things and for many of us, you don't get that. And what happens in turn, you'll find any way to find it as an adult – drugs, alcohol, sex, work, vacation, like whatever that thing is. And then you come to this realization, I came to this realization where I was like, all I ever do is pretend to be what everybody else wants me to be, in business, in relationships, in friendships, in my family I'm always this expectation. And shedding that, again, these layers we're talking about was incredibly difficult because I would do one thing and then I would revert back and I'd be like, why am I doing this again? Finally, like getting in the timeline of it all really, truly understanding it being able to create meaning in. And today I look at it very simply, like I believe entirely, like if you don't find the willingness to live life on your terms, a – you will never be healed. B – people will know you're full of shit cuz we can read each other's energy and c – you're going to die with regret which is a life unlived, and that's terrifying to me. You know, just a couple months ago, did our biggest conference of the year, 2,500 people for Unbroken Conference, right? And as I stood on stage, I just kept thinking to myself like, this is what I wanted to create. This is who I wanted to be. This is the person I am. And I'm gonna say fuck on stage and I'm gonna wear my hat and I'm going to talk in a certain way. And every person who doesn't like it or judge it has nothing to do with me. But there's two elements of that Gino that I think occur, and I'm wondering if this happened for you too. One is I realized that I had to start building my self-esteem intrinsically. And two, I realized that in becoming who I am, there was going to be collateral damage, unintentionally even. My intention has never been to hurt people by being me, but it happens, have you found that to be true for you as well?

Gino: Yeah. Oh man, there's so much I wanna say to that. So, once again, I'm whittling it down to just a handful, but I'll start with that point and then I'm gonna work backwards because this I will tell you; if you truly, fully be yourself in the world, you are not some of your friends are going away, some of your family's going away, people have hooks in you and you have hooks in them, quite frankly. But the day you are fully yourself, there are people that aren't gonna like it and so that's what scares us, and that's why we stop ourselves. I jokingly like to say, its people hanging onto your feet, man, you're trying to fly and these people are hanging onto your feet. So that's point one.

Point two is, you know, I'll share a personal story that happened for me because I thought I solved my fear and worry about people's judgment when I was like in my early twenties, so I started selling real estate in my early twenties, and my dad was a guru in the real estate industry, an incredible real estate salesperson who ultimately came a motivational speaker and built a training empire. And here I am, going into the freaking real estate industry with the same last name, there was a lot of pressure. So my dad suggested to me, I go get some therapy and I went and got therapy around it. And the conclusion, the therapist and I came to it is I just gotta say fuck 'em. I just gotta say fuck 'em. I was so worried about what everybody thought and I thought I solved it and so that was 23 years old. Well shoot forward in time, Oh. In the last five years, I clearly, it came so clear and a big part of it was seeing the structure, how much people's judgment affected me. I realized that every fucking decision I made since I was seven years old, I would think about everyone's reaction to it. And I was literally, oh my God, right up into my late forties, I'm still thinking about how they're gonna react. And so, when I saw that, it was incredibly freeing. So, I thought I solved it at 23 and I didn't solve it until at least 20, 25 years later.

And then the last two points I would say is, you know, I realized I spent my life trying to prove to myself that I was okay, you know? And so somewhere in my painter trauma, I just didn't feel worthy or enough, or I was okay. You know, again, it's all about this just processing and shedding those layers, facing that reality and then when that stuff comes clear and you finally shed it, all of a sudden you feel comfortable enough, you trust yourself, you realize you love yourself enough that you deserve to just be you and fuck him. I just didn't listen to that therapist advice at 23. He was right. I capable of applying his advice, but I also have learned, you know what? I'm not really fond of that approach of saying fuck em, because what I realized in the last probably five years is I just love them, all I do is I love them. I just love them. And that is so much less combative, it's so much more freeing. I just freaking love 'em. But listen man, I'm gonna be me and if you go away, go away and some of you, I want to go away ‘cuz you do nothing but drain my energy when I'm around you.

Michael: Yeah. And that can be really difficult, man, especially with family, you know, and everyone on this show knows this, but at 18 years old, I told my mother, I'll never talk to you again. And dude, I'm telling you, there's a 0% chance I'd be here with you today had I not made that decision. Right. And those decisions that we make, especially with the people in our lives matter so much and it's not fun. There's nothing about it, about sitting next to someone you care about or love or admire or it's been in your life for 20 years and being like, actually, I don't think we should be in contact anymore. It's not enjoyable, but it's a necessity because ultimately you end up settling. Right? And how do you become the person you're capable of being when you've settled? Because if you settle in one area, you settle in every area, and I truly believe that. And I've caught myself in moments in relations with humans and being like, I'm not letting this person live up to my standards because I've allowed them to be who they are and so that's actually on me to let them in my life. And it's not about blame or judging them, it's not, it's just about, you have to look at and assess like know thyself, what do you want? You want a business partner who shows up and takes actions and executes, but they don't do it, and you're still in the business relationship that's on you, that's not on them, that's your fault, it's the same thing as boundaries, right? So many people are like boundaries, boundaries, boundaries, but they don't understand boundaries. My boundaries aren't for you, Gino, they're for me. And I want people to leverage that and understand it and also understand that there is a massive amount of turmoil in the beginning of that shift. And it's kind of like one of your disciplines, which I agree with in a way that I cannot even fucking explain to you, is don't do $25 an hour work. And I'm telling you, we already lost people the second you said that, they're like, fuck these guys, we're out. Yeah. Respect. I get it. So, you're probably not hearing this anyway, but I believe that to be wholeheartedly, entirely true because you used this word, I love you said deserve. What do you deserve? Do you deserve 25 hours, a dollar an hour work? Because to me, I'm like, we live in 2023 today, inflations insane, $25 is basically $3. Are you sure that's good enough for you? Why did that become a discipline and maybe should that number now be $50 an hour? And how do people get out of that mindset? Because it's so deeply ingrained in us that you should be happy with $25 an hour, and I'm like, absolutely not.

Gino: Oh, hallelujah. I love that question. And I am wrestling with, do I need to bump that $25 up with inflation.

Michael: And I think you need to, man.

Gino: Well, it's coming, but I don't wanna lose this point. The point is, and this is the reason I come to the conclusion I'm not gonna change it, the important thing to understand is it is not looking down at $25 an hour work that is absolutely not what this has to do with, this is about energy. But I also say it's so important because when I say don't do $25 an hour work, I follow it up by saying if you wanna make six figures. And so, if you're sitting there in front of me saying, I wanna make six figures, a hundred grand, 200 grand, 500 grand million dollars a year, you can't do that doing $25 an hour work, that's the point. There are people on this planet that love making 50 grand a year and if everyone listening right now, would stop doing $25 an hour work and only do a hundred dollars an hour work and then hire somebody for 25 bucks an hour, we just literally single-handedly employed 30,000, $50,000 a year workers. And then to your point, yes, if you are gonna bump up to a hundred dollars an hour work now you can pay somebody $50, all it is simple math. I mean, I think where I am, I'm probably thousand or two or three or maybe $10,000 an hour work now in my life. So now I can pay somebody a thousand dollars an hour, $500 an hour, a hundred dollars an hour, so that the more you elevate yourself, the more you're gonna bring everyone else up. What it's saying is, what do you wanna earn? Tell me that number. And if it's 50 grand a year, then please do $25 an hour work that's what, $25 an hour is 50 grand a year. But if you wanna make 250, stop it. And you can't win this debate with me, and then you're gonna go employ somebody and hence that's how an economy is built and works. We need people making 20 grand, 50 grand, a hundred grand, a half a million, and a billion dollars a year, that's what makes the whole system.

Michael: Yeah. And I think you said something really important, it's like, are you happy? Because if you're happy and you make 30 grand a year you won, you won the game, it's over, doesn't matter. I saw my friend Tanner posted something he's been on the show Tanner Chidester. He posted something the other day and he said, I would rather be homeless than not make a million dollars a year working for someone else. And I was like, dude, respect, I get it because it's really about that thing about knowing, again, we're coming back to it again, know they self-live and work and have a career in something that brings you joy and fulfillment because if you don't. Man, it's a long life, you know, I go back, remember I worked for this Fortune 10 company at 20 years old, gave 'em five and a half years of my life, I cleared a lot of cash. In fact, I brought in over 25 million in revenue for that company on my own, and every day I was miserable. Dude, Gino, every day, I hated my fucking life and what was interesting about it at that age, ‘cuz I don't have a high school diploma and I don't have a college degree, everyone around me was like, don't leave this job, you'll never be this successful again. Don't do this. You need to stay here. You should be thanking your lucky stars. You even landed a multiple six figure position and from where you're from. And I let it seep in and seep in and seep in and seep in. And I'm like, here I'm wearing khakis to work with a fucking polo shirt on and talking water cooler talk, which makes me wanna fucking smash my head into a wall. And yet I was doing it because of the implications of what it would mean to face the fear of doing the unknown.

Gino: Yeah. I wanna add something, I'm just like burning to say, because, you know, I have four virtual assistants that work for me and they work about 30 hours a week, they make a little bit more than $25 an hour, but nonetheless, they are thrilled, they are staying home with their kids, they're raising their kids, they have very flexible hours, they're thrilled making, you know, less than a hundred grand a year this is my point, it's like you gotta decide what you want where you are, but please don't knock somebody making 50 grand a year. There are many very happy people making 50 grand a year, but if you want 250, you can't be doing two $25 an hour work, it's simple, simple, simple man.

Michael: Yeah. And more importantly, don't be miserable either way, cuz life is too short, you're gonna fucking die. And so, you should probably enjoy it a little bit more and let go of the pressure of all the things that really don't matter. You know, I'm curious man, because I've been thinking about this a lot lately like, it feels like so many of the things like in life just, they actually don't matter like if you really break it down, if you look at your friends and your family and they're healthy, and they're alive, and you're healthy and alive, which you probably are ‘cuz you're listening to this, the rest of itself will work itself out. Right?

Gino: Well, I think you have to be more specific on that because, you know, if I could give you like a thousand different examples and some of 'em are pretty extreme and some of 'em are really minor. So, the question for me is a hard one, and so if you can reframe it or re-ask it, maybe I can give you a more specific answer.

Michael: I'm curious with all the pressures of the world, looking at all the entrepreneurs you've worked with, looking at all the lives that you've impacted, you've been around, there has to be a separation between things that matter and things that don't. And I just feel like so many people think everything matters, how could be wrong, maybe everything does matter?

Gino: If everything mattered, there's like 16 trillion things, so then you got 16 trillion things to be worrying about. So, you are a hundred percent right. I'm just trying to, you know, I'm a very practical guy and I like to put things in a nutshell so people can process it and comprehend it.

Michael: Let me ask you this question, then I'll get more clear on it. How do you separate in your life, things that do matter and things that do not?

Gino: Apply the 10 Disciplines. So, let's just pull a couple things together because 10-year thinking tells you exactly what you want your life to look like, who you want to be, what it looks like, what it feels like you're taking the right amount of time off, you’re a hundred percent is knowing your work capacity. You know who you are, you're being still, when all of those things, literally every discipline is a boundary to your point. When you know your boundaries, you know who you are, your work time, your time off, all of those things, its crystal-clear what matters, it's like literally, I like to say when the first five disciplines are in place, the sixth discipline is say no, dot, dot, dot often. Well, when the first five disciplines are in place, what to say no to in your life is so crystal clear, it's like somebody asking you to eat a worm. You will so quickly say no to that question to that request that's how everything in your life will be. So yes, everything is not important, there's only a handful of things that are important, and only you can answer what's important. And so see the first five disciplines and you'll know exactly what's important for you.

Michael: I love that man. And that feels like such a framework of a funnel. You drop it in the top, let it come down, and it lands where it lands.

Gino: Bingo, man. And it filters out everything else, the 99.99999% that doesn't matter.

Michael: Yeah, I love that my friend. Gino, it's been amazing, amazing conversation brother, before I ask you my last question, can you please tell everyone where they can find you and learn more?

Gino: Fantastic. Well, I appreciate that opportunity for 10 disciplines, the website and the epicenter of all things there is the10disciplines.com. And what you'll find there is a FREE E-book I wrote that'll teach you these 10 disciplines, there's a talk I do every month called Inner Mastery if you really start doing the inner work. We offer group coaching if you wanna really go deep, but it's the10disciplines.com for all things, 10 disciplines. And then for the epicenter of everything I've created to understand everything that I do for entrepreneurs, it's ginowickman.com. And so those are the two places I would direct you to find out more about anything that piqued your interest.

Michael: Amazing and we'll put those on the show notes and guys, go to thinkunbrokenpodcast.com look up Gino's episode to download the 10Disciplines, we'll definitely put those links on the website for you. My last question for you, my friend, what does it mean to you to be unbroken?

Gino: Man, how much time do I have to answer? ‘Cuz I'm gonna put it in a nutshell, but I need my time limit.

Michael: As much time as you need.

Gino: All right, because this'll be the first time, I think I'm gonna try and articulate this and put it in a nutshell. Okay? And so, hopefully I do well.

So what it means to be unbroken to me starts with an awareness that again, we are made up of pure energy, every single one of us walking around, we are just simply balls of energy and some of us burn very bright. So, this is where we started this conversation and some of us don't burn so bright.

And so, what it means to be unbroken is when your energy is flowing completely freely through you, there are no blocks to your energy, all your stuff is gone. And I'm here to tell you, you can get rid of your stuff like literally, I'm getting chills right now because my energy is at a level. So, we all vibrated a different level and so what I wish for you is to vibrate high. Be pure energy, be pure light and love in the world, and that's unbroken because the only way to get there is to shed all of your shit, all of the dark energy in there. It's just the shit that happened to you in the past. And I don't mean to downplay it, but with all due love and respect, what I've realized is you just gotta sit with it. Certainly, go to therapy, certainly go do some plant medicine, certainly go do all these wonderful, there's a thousand things you can do if you need a sledgehammer to the head, but none just admit and acknowledge I got some dark shit in me. I got some blocks in me, and if you will just believe that you can process those things. I mentioned Untethered Soul, it's a great how-to manual for doing this, just understand your pure energy, it can burn bright, all of a sudden you'll realize, wow, there's a block here like even before I started this podcast, five minutes before I jumped down with you right here in my chest, there was a little block ‘cuz they keep coming up throughout your whole life. But what happens is you get really good at processing them and on average they process it 90 second once you clear all the old shit so, I don't know exactly what that is. The beauty is you never need to know, but I just sat with it. I cleared it. It was gone in like a minute, minute and a half, and I was all ready for you. So, unbroken to me means you are burning bright, your pure love and light, your energy is flowing freely and you've cleared out all of your blocks, whatever they are big ones, little ones. There's the best I can answer what that means to me.

Michael: Man, I love that answer and I could not agree more my friend.

Thank you so much for being here. Unbroken Nation, thank you so much for listening.

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