Truth About Modern Masculinity with | with Kaylor Betts

Michael Unbroken: Kaylor Betts. What's up brother. Welcome back to the podcast, man. It's been a while.

Kaylor Betts: Michael Unbroken, dude. I'll never forget our interview. I've done a lot at this point, a lot of interviews, been on a lot of podcasts, interviewed a lot of people. And it was, it's been a minute since we've connected, but you stood out and you always will, and I have not forgotten those connections we had a while ago, and I'm sure this one will be great as well, too.

Michael Unbroken: Yeah, thanks man. That's that means a lot. It's not often I, pick up the phone and I say, Hey, come back on the podcast. We need to go deeper. But you're 1 of those guys and have been for very long time that I follow on social. I watch what you do. Progressed and creating content here. A big part of the conversation that's been so near and dear to me is about the conversation around men and manhood and what it means to be a man today in 2024. In light of all of the chaos of the world right now. And there's a handful of guys that I look at and I go, man, they are. showing up in authenticity, being in themselves, regardless of any of the by product that social media wants to throw at them about their identity and who they should be. And they're standing on their own two feet and you're one of those guys. And so I want to just dive right into it. And the question that comes to mind immediately, in the consideration that, and this is my opinion, and you probably agree with me, but in consideration that it is dangerous just to be a man right now, how do you define manhood?

Kaylor Betts: Yeah, I think there's three ways in which we're conditioning men nowadays. There's the very, to me, obvious, obviously wrong idea of what a man is, which is trying to emasculate men and trying to demonize masculinity. And I would say that's just the very kind of woke agenda, the very highly left leaning, progressive ideological idea of what a man should be, which is essentially be less of a man, right? And don't be strong. Don't be healthy. Don't be bold. Don't try and conquer in this world. Don't try and go out and, do anything crazy, right? We need to dim your light because, women or minorities or whatever have been oppressed for so long. From men and we need to, essentially fight that by going in the opposite direction. Okay. So I think that is so evidently and obviously the wrong way to approach being a man. And quite honestly, I think that's a very fast path towards a man feeling very lost, hopeless, unfulfilled and depressed and anxious. We could put our kind of tinfoil hat on a little bit, which these days, if you do that often, you might actually be right and correct. And in many cases, it's pretty crazy. And we could talk about how there might be an agenda to keep men weak because, weak men are easily controlled. But that's a whole other conversation. So there's that camp. Then there's the one in kind of the middle, which I think is middle ground, which honestly, typically I often lead towards. I often think the answer is somewhere in the middle. I think there's like this narrative of yeah. Be strong, be masculine, be bold, be outspoken, go out and conquer, be on a mission show up, take action, build things and achieve things in the external world, which I think is a great way to define masculinity, but I think also to be really honest with you, and this is not going to be something that everyone agrees with, and I don't even know if you agree with but it's but let's also journal like every single day. Let's talk about our feelings. Let's like, let's really, get into a group of men and hold hands and sing Kumbaya, all day long and it's okay to cry in every single situation. And although I think there's a healthy dose of that, I do think it's actually being taken to a level that exceeds what I believe is going to be in a man's ear. Essence like it's gone to the point where on the threshold because there is a threshold of that I think that some even I would say men who are following the personal growth space and that kind of conventional narrative and Education right now. I would say that it's maybe a little bit skewed in the direction of like I see men I see it built, making them a little bit too feminine, honestly, and then I think there's the camp of what I believe is in a man's essence and exactly on that threshold of where I believe a man is going to ultimately be showing up and be living his highest quality of life and potential. Which is what I talked about, achieve things in the external world, have a mission, have a North Star, be aligned with it, go out and try and serve the world and conquer in, in that mission and be a dangerous man as Jordan Peterson would say, but work on learning how to manage that monster that you created within you, learn how to emotionally regulate, no question, learn how to keep your composure in every situation, learn how to have difficult conversations, learn how to protect, how to provide, how to build a Strong body and get in the gym and lift heavy things and put your feet on the ground and take care of yourself So that you because what do warriors take very good care of themselves because they know the better they take care of themselves The more energy and bandwidth they're gonna have that they could put out into this world There's a lot of that's and then yes, we do have to have a healthy amount of okay. It's okay to journal, okay, it is okay to hold hands with your brother sometimes And, saying Kumbaya, so to speak and what I really mean by that is, okay, talk about your emotions and go into the feminine. And sometimes you do have to go within. Sometimes you do have to flow. I think you have to acknowledge that your feelings are valid. But they're communicating things to you and you have to go out and you have to make sure that, as Viktor Frankl says, our freedom lies between stimulus and response. And I think that is so important for a man to identify that's where your freedom lies is stimulus is the emotion what's coming up within and then in between that stimulus and your response lies a space that you're able to emotionally regulate and make the decision that Aligns with your highest purpose and good. Okay, so I would say that one of the best pieces of advice any man can get is that, hey, your feelings are valid, but don't let those feelings dictate your behavior. Because that's where I think a lot of men are getting tripped up nowadays and just people in general as they're letting a lot of their feelings dictate their behavior. So, I throw it a lot there. I'm going to pause because yeah.

Michael Unbroken: So no. And that's why I wanted you to really go into those spaces because I have my own thoughts about it first. And I want to hit each one because I think that's going to be very beneficial. One, I do think there's a tremendous emasculation of men happening right now. I wrote a post recently probably about two months ago and it was titled the 25 things that all men need to do. And number one was don't be fat. And my story, Kaylor, I was 350 pounds. I was fat, like I was fat and I'm not afraid to admit that. And I had to get my Goggins on right before Goggins. There was just me and dealing with my own shit. And in that part of it, I also wrote is you have to be able to know how to protect yourself, do martial arts, know how to fire a firearm, know how to protect your family. And I had so much fucking pushback about that where people were like, Oh God, how dare you talk about firearms? And I'm like, what are you talking about? Live in the world that we live in, not in the fantasy of the world that you wish that we did. And so there, I do feel this big push to. overly feminized men in this way where it makes any element of masculinity be a bad thing. There were other things that I wrote about, learn how to tie your tie, learn how to budget your checkbook, learn how to change your fucking tire on your car, do these things. And it's not that again, moving into the second one, which you asked, you said, I don't know if I'll agree with you or not. I do agree with you. I think that we have over, analyze and over approach this idea of emotions, right? I always tell my clients, whoever controls their emotions, control their life. And I'm not saying like you, I preach journaling and emotions and crying when you have to cry as much as the next guy, you're probably not going to find me in a circle of men holding hands, crying all day long about the things that have happened in my life. Now that's not to say, that those moments haven't occurred. And I haven't sat in therapy or with my coach and explored that and been like, fuck dude, my life was killer. My life, dude, my life was so hard. I had to learn how to process those emotions. But the fact that we live in this overly emotional time has led to this place where people, they don't know how to react anymore. And they're told, every time something happens, freak out. And it's eh, probably not. The third pillar that you said is more of where I align with you. It's go, and be of service, be accountable, show up, be achievement oriented. If you got to cry. This isn't wipe your tears off and pick yourself off the ground. It's deal with the shit in front of you. And I think that's the area that we've really missed. The boat is people just dealing with their fucking life. It's yes, dude, life is hard. You're going to be emotional. And that's where I tend to live. You will see me. I'm what I like to refer to as a peaceful warrior, right? I know because I've practiced martial arts my whole life. I can kick your head off, but I can also hold your hand in solidarity and be like, brother, I got you. And that's the space that I think that we need more leadership of men. But I'm actually going to add a fourth tier one that maybe you might've been leaning towards, but we didn't get into. And that is the hyper masculinity, super red pill alpha male that I would talk about the pendulum swinging entirely the wrong direction beyond emasculation and into this place where now you have this collective of men who are completely avoidant of emotion. And human connection, and they're so driven by money and women and possession that they've missed the human element and that I tend to be seeing a lot recently, and to be honest with you, that might scare me a little bit more than the other side of the pendulum, because now. We are creating robots with no emotion. And as I see more of this red pill conversation, this super hyper masculine energy, dude, that actually freaks me out a little bit.

Kaylor Betts: Yeah, I couldn't agree with you more. I think that is a problem. I think that, you mentioned we're creating this like red pill, hyper masculine type of men out there who like don't have any emotions at all. I'm of the belief that everyone has emotions, right? I think that's a human experience. I think that these emotions are trying to communicate to us. I think that when you're angry or you're sad or you're feeling jealous or guilty or shame or whatever, it's basically your physiology, your nervous system, your psychology saying, Hey, you got a minute to chat. ‘Cause what we're doing ain't working right now, right? So you have to acknowledge and be present and be conscious of those emotions. You have to be able to tune into your body and understand like, where's my heart rate at right now? What state is my nervous system in right now? What are the narratives going on in my subconscious and psychology? That is part of being a man and then you have to learn how to regulate it. And this, I think the biggest problem with what you're talking about, this hyper masculine movement. And man, I hate to say it because. Because when I hate to use the term toxic masculine, it is the right term for it. But the reason why I hesitate to use that is because when you say toxic masculinity, most people have a totally different idea of what that is. Most people take caustic toxic masculinity as there's a problem with being masculine. Okay, so when I say toxic masculinity, what I would consider that to be is what you're saying. The hyper masculine where it's no, you don't even, have any space to acknowledge your feelings. And here's the thing, when you don't acknowledge your feelings at all, when you don't think they're valid, when you don't have that conversation with your body, your psychology, your nervous system, when it says, Hey, you got a minute to chat because what we're doing ain't working here when you don't take the time and the space to just listen. And tune in and acknowledge and validate the feelings. Then what happens is they get suppressed and guess what? I'm of the belief that eventually they're going to come out somehow. And that's where I think it turns ugly is eventually it might feel really good to be the hypermasculine and just no, I'm going to put my feelings on hold, but eventually they come up somehow. And that's where I think you end up reaching for the bottle when you're in a vulnerable moment. That's where I think you might end up punching your spouse, that's where you might end up punching a hole in the wall where you might end up. You know what I mean? So like I saw something not too long ago that was like, yeah, meditation is cool. But have you ever tried screaming into a pillow? Like sometimes crying it out and screaming into a pillow is really fucking healthy. It's a release. It's you acknowledging that okay, the emotions are there. I need a release for it. I think what it means to be a man is to have a healthy amount of that emotional content. Acknowledgement, creating space for it and then the release and what I deem that to be healthy, a healthy amount would be to recognize when you need to go scream in a pillow and just be like, babe, I just need a little moment right now. And you go scream in a pillow. And maybe you end up crying in front of your spouse, but it's like you own it, you're confident about it, you go fucking full force into it and you don't beat yourself up over it, you know it's a healthy release and then you pick yourself back up and say, babe, I got this. I just needed that for a little bit. Thank you for being there for me and I'm going to keep going and I'm going to keep protecting and providing and being the best version of the man that I can be so that I can protect and provide for this family.

Michael Unbroken: Yeah, and that's what you're talking about where sometimes you have to lean into that feminine energy and that's such a fucking scary thing killer for so many dudes. I didn't cry for 15 years. I literally thought I was a robot. And in fact, one time I was sitting with my therapist. I had so much processing to do from the worst childhood of all time. And it was like, I remember sitting with him and just being like, I think I'm a sociopath. Like I don't know how to cry. What's so funny what I uncovered in that was it wasn't that I don't know how to cry. It's that I've, I had turned it off because of so much shame associated with it. And when you look at shame, man, it's like the lowest vibrating frequency measurable by man. And what shame is, and I've really explored this and I know you have too. So I'm excited to get into this, but one of the things I've really explored in shame is coming to the recognition that what shame is it's this mind game that we play based on the association of the expectation other people place on us about who we should be. Cause it's really interesting. If you look at little boys, for instance, if they get hurt, they get upset, they have a moment, they will cry freely. And then we kind of strip that away from them and to some capacity, I'm going to, I'm going to say this lightly. I think you'll get it to some capacity. I think that's necessary because the world is fucking hard, but the, to the other side, it's like, we also have to allow the space for them to explore that. I think there's a delicate balance. I don't know what that is. ‘Cause (A) I'm not a father and (B) I'm not a little boy anymore, so I don't know. But what I think is really interesting is now in manhood, people have shame about so many things. And we can sit the element of crying for instance, in its own compartment. Guess what? Now you add all the other layers. You add about shame of self, about career, about finances, about the car they drive, the woman that they date the way that they think about being a man, their accolades, their achievements, the size of their body, the size of their dick, right? There's so much shame about everything around manhood where it's my thought is if as a individual person, you can remove the, inclination to believe that anyone else has any say in who the fuck you should be. You will find freedom. What are your thoughts about like, how do we navigate this conversation to shame? Cause I see you put shit on the internet and I'm like, that's fucking gangster. I can't believe you just did that. But I know like me, you don't give a fuck. And what I'm trying to solve for X is how do we get to the place where we can give other men permission to think the same way?

Kaylor Betts: Man, there's so much there. This is such a important topic when it comes to men in particular. So I don't, I wouldn't, I don't think we disagree. And if, by the way, if we do, that's totally fine. I'm sure we're going to get to a point at some point where we disagree on something, which I think is actually a beautiful part of the human experience. Yeah, but I would just explain the same thing in a little bit of a different way. So, I think that. I don't think shame is the lowest vibrational frequency. I think that I taught there, I think there's a healthy amount of shame and I'm of the belief that there's a toxic amount of shame. So the healthy amount of shame, like I don't, I know your story. I do not believe that you would have went from breakdown to breakthrough. I w I don't believe you would have, you mentioned, I love that list of the 25 things every man should do. I love that. And one of the things was don't be fat. I think if you didn't have a certain level of shame, you'd still be fat right now words are subjective. So maybe you would call it something else. But what I mean about shame is it's at some point having a deep discontent with where you're at and some of your shortcomings. Okay. And it's a deep realization that you can be better, okay. And that you should be better. And that may be even to go as far as to say it's your duty to be better. Okay, so I think it is healthy to have this deep discontent and really what it is it's and I talk about this all the time having fucking high standards for yourself. We talk all the time about romantic relationship standards, which are so important. It's what are you doing with Sally? You can do so much better, right? What about the standards for yourself? Like for me, I just look, I was 55 pounds heavier than I am now. I had a beer belly. I had very little muscle mass. My body composition wasn't great. I wasn't like, I don't have a story like you, but I totally let myself go. And I looked in the mirror one day when I was in a changing room in Australia, when I was trying on a shirt and I had this healthy amount of shame where I'm like, wow, I'm fucking better than that. And it, I use that shame. to then put it into going out and taking action to get better. And I believe that we live in a society that's trying to get totally rid of shame and say that it's all bad and that, you should just love your body and yourself no matter what. And it's I fundamentally reject that. vehemently because I think that makes us weak and broke and fat and sick and tired.

Michael Unbroken: So yeah we're saying the same with that now.

Kaylor Betts: And then let me say something controversial as well to the crying situation. So I think, again, I think masculinity is the, is it is a delicate. Intentional imbalance, but parts of both. It just needs to be intentional of the feminine and masculine. And I think that, we do hear women. I saw someone, I wish I could give them credit. I saw someone talk about this the other day and I really agreed. We hear women say all the time Oh, I want a man who can cry. And it's yes, okay. But do you at some point, yes, you have to own when you cry in front of your spouse. It's gonna happen, okay? And you should go all in with that. And I think that is part of being masculine. But there's, there is absolutely a level of shame you should have if this is happening on a regular basis. And I'm, cause why? I'm not saying I like that or that's good or bad. I'm indifferent. All I'm saying is that women don't want, women want a fucking man who has it figured out enough that they can basically say, babe, hop on this fucking rollercoaster ride with me. I got you. I'm driving the ship. You're going to have to help me guide it because you're actually probably in most cases better at the guiding, but I'm driving. Okay. And I got you. Okay. And you can feel safe coming on this. Roller coaster ride with me. And do you think they're really going to feel safe if you're crying in front of them all the time? No, they're going to get the idea. Does he really get, got this? I don't think he does. So I think that there's a healthy amount of shame. And I think that the crying, I think there is an aspect of you got to figure that shit out as a man yourself, go to your therapist, go talk to your friends, screaming to a pillow, crying in your room. And, but at some point you have to set an expiration date and then get out of it and start taking action. And just the last point, because I do want to make sure I answer your shame question, the toxic amount of shame to me is where you, this is where the vibrational frequency comes in. I think it's where you are. Living in that state of shame and that is taking the wheel. Okay, where most of your day you're living in that vibrational frequency. And look, you just can't get anything done because you need confidence. You need to be bold. You need to, you need energy, you need to take action. And when you're perpetually living in a state of shame, it just robs you of all those things that are necessary to go out and become a man.

Michael Unbroken: Yeah, so we don't disagree at all by the way yet.

Kaylor Betts: I figured.

Michael Unbroken: Yeah. What I think shame is too So I think there's because I want to stay in this for a minute because I think that there's two layers of shame, right? So there's two sides of this coin side One is that interdependent and that inherent shame that I think pulls you out of the chaos of your own life like I had to look at my life at 25 heading into 26, 350 pounds, smoking two packs a day, drinking myself to sleep, cheating on my girlfriend, brother doesn't talk to me, 50,000 in debt. It's you should feel some fucking shame. And that's the part of conversation that we're not having publicly, because I agree with you, the changing shirt in Australia, looking at your body and being like, really motherfucker, this is what you've allowed, dude, that's fuel. We have got to leverage that the other side of the shame, which is where I had started off was the shame about who you should be, which then trickles down into this path of like authenticity. So what I'm always thinking about when I'm working with people and I'm trying to help them heal trauma and overcome the places that they're stuck is ultimately the goal is to get to this place of self actualization, right? How do you get to the place where you are, right? Kaylor, I am Michael, you are you like, and that is within full authenticity, not in this veiled cloak and these masks of the idealization of the person that you think you should be, but freely standing as the person that you are. And, so many people will leverage these things that they see. ‘Cause people listen to us with massive frequency. You and I have a social responsibility in a lot of ways to continually to show up as ourselves, which there's that kind of pressure. And then there's the inherent pressure in which I'm like, I have to be authentic to me first, because I'd rather have people hate me for who I am than love me for who I'm not. And that took a long time to unravel within myself to get to the point where I'm like, yeah, I'm cool with me. You know that's and I think that will always be an evolution of work. I don't think that ever goes away. As Bishop T.D. Jakes says new levels, new devils. And I'm always just constantly playing the game. There's so much fear of an adequacy that men face about the idea of even being themselves. From the beginning and you have this reinforced and social now, especially from intimacy and dating standards where it's like, bro, you gotta be six foot tall, make six figures, have a six pack and a six inch dick. And that's you're talking about 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 1 percent of men. And brother, I hate to break it to you. You ain't that you, I'm sorry. You're just not the 0, 0, 0, 0, 1%. You might be the zero 1%, you might be the 10%. Hell, you might even be lucky enough to be in the top 30%, but the average man just is not. And I think that there's acknowledgement that has to happen in that. But in that acknowledgement, what I think keeps dudes stuck is they're so afraid to leverage and own the truth of who they are, because if you ask any woman, if you ask any real woman, what they want out of a man, the number one answer unequivocally is.

Kaylor Betts: Yeah.

Michael Unbroken: That's a fucking nothing to do with money. Nothing to do with your car. Nothing to do with your abs. How do I know? Cause when I was fat as fuck and I had a car repoed, I was having sex with women, like it was my job. And so now I look at my life and that's. Not even remotely close to how I navigate the world, but I live in a pure sense of authenticity. And so when I see you in your journey, (A) it's two part, like, how did you step deeper into Kayla, like living authentically as who you are? Which is ultimately self actualization and then (B) how the hell do we help other guys get to that place?

Kaylor Betts: So I think that again, I think it's very similar to the shame. I think we very much agree. I would just, I'm going to shift the way in which we explain. Authenticity or define would probably be the better word. So I think that a lot of people think that authenticity. So you asked me how I stepped into this. It was me really clarifying what authenticity is. And to me, the definition that I think serves us the most when it comes to authenticity is it's actually not to be who you really are. Because if I you, was who I really am, speak. All of the time. I would be an asshole a lot of the time. I give the example of stepping into an Uber. I get that. Stepping into an Uber, right? Dude, as much as I don't have a, you have a fucking, you have a Story that is in a book and you could have a hollywood movie made out of it. Like you have a pretty crazy story for a lack of a better way of putting it, mine's not as hollywood but I definitely have my shit. And it's complicated what I've been through experientially and just my environment in my upbringing. But when I get into an Uber and I'm running a little behind and I have something and I have a million things on my mind with business and everything, and he takes a wrong turn. And all of a sudden I see on the app that he just lost us a few minutes. I want to fucking lose it on this guy. That's who I truly am. I would want to just absolutely scream at this guy or if I'm in airport security and they want to do extensive, search on me and I'm, I have a phone call with someone on my team and I'm going to be a few minutes late and it's just, it's like, what are we doing here? I just want to, I want to ream them out. But guess what? That wouldn't be being authentic to me. That's not the noble. Definition of authenticity. If I were to just be who I truly am and what comes up for me. So, what do I think authenticity is? I think it is maybe self actualization is a part of it. I don't know if it's the best way to capture what I think it really is. What I think it really is. It's almost like self construction and then commitment to that self construction. So what I mean is it's not just being who you are. It's not finding who you really are. It's actually constructing The definition of who do you want to be in this fucking world and then aligning your behavior with it? So what are your commitments? What are your long term goals and visions? What are your values and principles? And then to me authenticity is aligning with those principles. So guess what for me? Why do I go on instagram and say shit that people are like, wow, I can't believe you said that guess what I've lost first off, I don't think you can lose anything that's not aligned in the first place, but let's just say it for lack of a better term, I've lost friend groups who don't even want to associate with me anymore because of what I say on Instagram. I've lost relationships, people who don't want to have anything to do with me, who are my cousins that I share Christmas dinner with. Every year I've had university professors go on media outlets and debunk my videos and write dissertations on why I'm a narcissist on social media. I'm not even kidding you. I've heard it all grab some popcorn and go to some of my polarizing posts and just look at the comments of like, how many people are trying to shame me and judge me and criticize me and reject me. Why do I do that? Despite all those things, because I am fucking committed to my overall long term values and commitments and my values and my principles I don't waver from those even if I get abandoned to the nth degree Even when there's consequences, that's what I'm committed to more than anything And yeah, it sucks sometimes, but to me, you just got to choose I'm more afraid of the consequences of not being aligned with my long term values and commitments than the consequences to, like you said, I'd rather be loved for who I am or sorry, hated for who I am than love for who I am not. I'm just more concerned with those consequences. To answer your question, that to me is what authenticity is. And we could also say to a large degree, that's what masculinity is. It's define who the fuck you want to be in this world and do not waver from it and make sure that your behavior aligns with it every single day. And guess what? The more committed you are to your values and principles, the more judgment, criticism, abandonment, shame, and rejection you're going to get. And part of being a man, especially in today's world is to have the courage to move through that and be committed through at all.

Michael Unbroken: Yeah, one of the, one of the things that comes to mind here, obviously you've had the benefit of interviewing Grant Cardone on your show. He invested in my company a few years ago. He's somebody I've, I think of quite often on a daily basis because he's if you're not pissing people off, you're not saying anything important. And I actually really believe that because there's something about trying to always play both sides of the coin that I think leaves you in a loss of, A zero sum game. There's no way you can win because you're never going to fully step into who it is that you are. And again, I think you and I are saying the same thing. We're just taking different paths to get there. Because when I think about authenticity, one of the cornerstones of everything that has been my life is raise your standards. It's something I think about on a daily basis where it's like, okay, if your life is a disaster, I can show you exactly why and the reason why unequivocally, by the way, because I've coached thousands of people over the years. Unequivocally, I can show you the reason why your life is a disaster. And it's because you are not holding yourself accountable to yourself. And people are like I want to become this here, this high echelon of a man. I want to have these, this kind of relationship. This kind of body, this kind of money. And it's bitch, you're smoking cigarettes and getting drunk every night. You see the thing that you're doing is you're playing this little game called, I lie to myself every day. And when you lie to yourself, it's effectively victim hood, right? Because the more that you lie to yourself, the more that you victimize yourself and. You play victim games, you get victim prizes. And it's so difficult to navigate that where we live in a society that tells you, you should feel good enough as you are. And I think one of the most polarizing things you mentioned, Jordan Peterson, one of the most polarizing things he's ever said is that you actually shouldn't. Feel good enough about who you are. You should take aim at becoming the greatest version of yourself that you can be. Once I, in the height of the controversy, I posted this quote from Jordan on my social, dude, I got ripped to fucking shreds. I didn't even say it. I just agreed with it. And I was like, I agree. Because if you want to be the status of human being man or otherwise, that is a value that creates the life that you want to have. Raising your standards is taking a simple look at your life and acknowledging that you are not trying hard enough. And that's so uncomfortable for people.

Kaylor Betts: And maybe it's to shift it from Am I trying my best because I don't think the universe really rewards us too much when we are focused on trying our best and you, you mentioned the Hormozi’s. I think they talk about this. It shifted to, am I doing what's required? What, one of the biggest differences I believe between men and women, because I think what we're talking about begs the question of okay but then how do men differ from women? I think one of the biggest differences is men heal. Primarily because you talked about cigarettes and alcohol. Like we do that because we're coping with, we're trying to cope. We're just reaching for something that will quickly regulate our nervous system because we have deep internal pain that we're dealing with. Wounding, all that stuff. I know, obviously, you know about that firsthand. You've been through incredible trauma wounding, like that all did a number on you. And people reach for those things because they're a way of attempting to regulate. Through the deep internal stuff that we're doing, but or that we're experiencing. But here's the thing is I think that men will heal primarily by achieving things and going out into the external world and like doing stuff. Okay, that's very masculine structure plan action going on and doing stuff. And then guess what? Through tolerable steps. Because when you were. In your darkest days, I'm assuming, and I'm sure you tried to go zero to 100. It probably didn't work sustainably, but like tolerable steps just getting out there. And that's what I would say to someone who's I'm smoking and drinking and all this stuff. And I'll be like, Hey, I'm not going to get you to go to zero to 100. through tolerable steps, we're going to slowly but surely get you to go out and take action. And every time, just like Alex Hormozi says, you build confidence by going out and building a stack of undeniable proof that you are who you say you are. So, let's identify who do you want to be in this world? Then let's through tolerable steps, take action. Every time you take action, it is going to be hard. You're going to be faced with all those inner demons, and we're going to teach you how to do that. despite what you feel inside, we're going to teach you how to acknowledge those things, release them, also take action and not let them dictate your behavior. And if you do that with enough consistency, slowly but surely you build the confidence you heal because the only way to heal a wound is to ultimately face it. It causes you to face all of those inner demons and slowly but surely and it takes time. You will get to a better place. The difference between men and women is women more so I think healed by going inwards. Okay, so like I would have completely different advice for women if I can be so bold to even have advice for women because I'm not a woman, but I, from everything I've observed, they heal more by if they go out and try and heal in the external world by accomplishing things, they just get burnt out because I don't think their cycles and their biology are aligned with that. I think women are more so going to heal by literally taking a break, journaling, holding hands and singing Kumbaya, getting in the sun, taking care of themselves, crying fucking all day long if they need to, and then slowly but surely getting out and doing what they're passionate about. They don't have to go out and conquer and have a, as much of a plan, take as much action, be boldly committed to day in and day out going out and making shit happen as much as men They need a little bit of that or a certain amount of that just like the masculine needs a little bit of the feminine It's just reversed and polarized in that regard.

Michael Unbroken: Yeah, no, you're spot on. And, I've coached as many women, if not slightly more than men in the last decade, almost, I've been doing this, I do not approach it the same way at all. Not even remotely close because what men need. And I think that you can agree with this. We must be challenged. Yes. Like we, there must be an obstacle placed in front of us that requires us raising up into the possibility of the man that we believe we can become, period point blank. I will sit across from a dude. I don't give a fuck how bad your childhood was. And you know me, I'm the trauma coach. You don't get that job because your shit was good growing up and I don't care how bad it was. I will lay a very stark challenge in front of you. When it comes to women, I approach that in the complete opposite trajectory. And I go, how do we get you back into who you are right now, both of them, what's odd, they're different paths that lead to the same place. But we have to acknowledge the reality that we are different. And this is where, and this is where I do get a lot of pushback, man. I always tell men, I'm like, you should not be being coached by women. And a big part of that is because I, and the same reason why I don't think that most women should even be coached by men, right? And it's subjective, let's be very clear. ‘Cause there's always the outliers in this, but if you look at our society and again, Kaylor I'm basing this on the world we live in, not the fiction that I wish we lived in most men grow up without fathers. Most men grow up without father figures. Most men are raised by women. Most men are feminized in childhood to be brother, husbands, and son, husbands, and they become the emotional leverage and support for the mother and single homes, 80 percent of divorces. Statistically, and this is something you can research, which you can prove. Most 80 percent of divorces are initiated by women. And we have this whole society of boys being raised in feminine energy and they don't know how to step into masculinity. And then they hear us and they go, fuck these guys. They're not in touch with their emotions. And it's dude, I know your journey. ‘Cause I know you, right? I know the shit that you've been through and the shit I've been through. And man, the other day I was watching this video where this dude's just like giving money to homeless people. And I'm like bawling bro. Cause I'm like, God damn, this is like such a human thing. And it's but at the same time I had just got back from Muay Thai practice. And so it's this really interesting dichotomy. And I think that men need to be led by men. And I know that's such a polarizing thing to say right now. And I respect my female friends who are coaches and men who go to them, but I just, I got to challenge that narrative, man, because we're in this moment right now. And I look at it and I cannot help but think if part of the problem that has led to the weakness of society has been men predominantly being raised by women, then why as a man, would you go learn to be a man from more women?

Kaylor Betts: Yeah, a hundred percent. But I will say this that as two coaches who coach a lot of women, cause I coach a lot of women as well too. I would just say, I a hundred percent agree with you. I would just say that what I'm more so concerned about is a woman who only gets coached by men. So I actually think both sexes should be coached by both. Yeah. So yes, for me, I actually do seek a woman mentor and coach for. The feminine side of things when it when I do need to step into that and not that they can't add any value masculine wise as well too. But then yes, I also very much need that masculine figure and mentor in my life. And I think women can benefit from both as well too. And that's why even in our program, like we have. We normally have a pretty consistent like woman figure authority in there to balance out my kind of more masculine approach. And then also just in our training we have a feminine approach as well to make sure that we really cover that base. But dude, oh man what was I going to say? I look, I agree with so much of what you're saying, and I think I lost my train of thought because I wanted to acknowledge that. But in summary, yes, like men need to go out and this is dude. This is why I appreciate your approach so much because you could so easily. There's a great quote by H. L. Mencken. He says, for every complex problem, there's a solution that is clear, simple, and wrong. And this is what I think is so prevalent in our society nowadays. This is where I think the woke agenda really comes from is they always jump to the clear, simple solution. It's Oh so there's a huge wage gap. There's a lot of poverty. Oh, just give poor people money. That's a clear, simple solution, right? Yeah, but it's wrong because when you look at the complexities and the nuance of that and what actually ends up being the result, it's not that simple, right? Oh, COVID and airborne virus here. Oh shut down the world, shut down all businesses, wear nine masks, use hand sanitizer, and let's literally pump the population full of a vaccine. which in no, not even remotely close has been tested to the extent that every other vaccine in history has been tested. Like that's the clear, simple solution. But when you look at the depths of it, it's wrong. So I would say the same thing about masculinity. You could so easily because of the trauma that you've been through. You could so easily succumb to what a lot of people I think in our space, a lot of men in our space have succumbed to in that telling men that like, you actually don't have to work. Wouldn't it just be easier if you just give them that and I would almost say, From a sales perspective, it's easier as well, too. It's Hey, we, you know what you actually, but it's not real back. Yeah. You need to take a step back and we need to hold hands and sing Kumbaya and you need to journal more and you don't succumb to the societal pressures of you going out and protecting and providing for, and that's just what a lot of coaches in our space, even coaches I respect and have even had on my podcast. I listened to, and again, But maybe I'm the one that's wrong. I don't know. I have the ability to know that I'm not always right, but it's my observation that I think they are stepping into what is just more convenient, a more convenient message in that, Hey men, cry, feel your emotion. And it's yeah. A little, yes, some of that a healthy amount of that, but I also had someone tell us the other day, my sales team reached out to me and, we're trying to, we're not, we're hungry to serve. So we're like we reach out to people if they have problems that we can solve in our academies. Like we reach out and we're like, Hey, get on a call. Let's chat about maybe you want to work with us. Maybe we can change the fucking game for you. And I'm not even kidding. I had a dude, there was one of my, someone on my sales team came to me and said that they had a dude who's been meaning to sign up for a call for a while cause he needs help and they followed up with him and they said, Hey is fucking Trudeau gonna resign before you sign up for this call? What's going on? Or let's talk. And his response was, and this was a few weeks ago, his response was. Yeah. Who that solar eclipse is really intense. I need a week to integrate

Michael Unbroken: Jesus Christ.

Kaylor Betts: That is the fucking problem with what I'm just talking about. We have way too many people in our space who are giving men the permission to think that they can't take any of this. Action because of the fucking solar eclipse and that they need to integrate. What the fuck does that even mean? I went through the same goddamn solar eclipse as everyone else did. And I feel on this fucking fire. I feel on fucking fire, Michael. I am. Why? Because I'm taking action. I'm not sitting there saying, Oh, I need to integrate. Sometimes, yeah. Again, there's a healthy amount of that, but my God, man, that's the problem with I think a lot of that moderate take on masculinity that we talked about in the beginning.

Michael Unbroken: Yeah, I was working during the solar eclipse and I had a bunch of texts and they're like, did you see it? I was like, no, I was working and it's I agree with you in there. Here's the thing, man, and this is what's so difficult because you're going to have to sit in the truth of this from, and we're again, we're having a conversation about men for men by men. This is a very men centric conversation. You show me your life and I will show you all the excuses you've been making. That has led you to where you are and that guy made an excuse. And what's so heartbreaking about that, dude, the reason why I serve so hard, thousands of podcasts, I give my books away for free speaking on stages. God knows how many posts and is because I want people to understand one unequivocal truth about life. And that is that if you make excuses, you will die with regret. And that guy, what breaks my heart about him and even in the moment of challenge, Hey, are you going to do this before Trudeau retires is he doesn't want it bad enough. And there's going to be this segmentation of the populace men, women alike. It doesn't matter who they are going to forever be a victim. And no matter how much content you and I put out, no matter how much we share our stories and our journeys, no matter how much we talk about the successes of the clients we've worked with, those people will walk to the edge and the fear of jumping in keeps them so trapped that the water could rise to their knee and they will still step back. And what's so devastating to me about that is they're undeniably going to create generational trauma and separation in their family that in seven generations from now is going to impact them in ways that you don't even understand because the energy spectrum that we live in is both forward facing into the future and reciprocal into the past. We are statistically, scientifically, you can prove this from DNA analysis. We carry seven generations of DNA in our physical being your decisions as a man today will impact seven generations of your lineage from this moment. And that thing, when that guy is on this call that drives me, that I think about on a daily basis, Taylor is I was that guy. I was that guy for a long time. And then I sat in coming back to the closing the loop on this, I sat in the shame of the man that I had chosen to become and until that dude takes a fucking look in the mirror and says, I chose this life, nothing will be different for him and that's what's devastating.

Kaylor Betts: And I hope he's listening and he's probably pissed off if he is. And it should be, but I want to make, yeah, I want to make him feel something and I want to make the men listening who are also in that boat who are making excuses. I want to make them feel something. I would rather make you feel angry than nothing at all. On this podcast, I'd rather tell you the cold fucking hard truth because that is to be leveraged. You can leverage that anger and instead of projecting it out onto us, which you can, by the way, I would just ask yourself, how much is that going to serve me? Of what use is that? Or is it better to take that anger and actually put it towards actually going out and getting your life together and getting your ducks in a row and doing something with your life? And look, I know it sounds probably like I'm shaming and judging I'm with you, Michael. I was that guy as well, too. It is bypassing at its finest. It is utilizing like excuses, like it's victim mentality. So, the solar eclipse is why you can't get your life together. Like the, is there any more victim mentality, defeatist mindset than the solar eclipse is preventing me from taking the action I need to go out. And to live my highest quality of life. I don't think so. So yeah, like not using excuses. And you know what, this is again why I love your work. And this is certainly aligned with what I do is I don't give especially men. I don't give them cop outs. I don't give them ways they can bypass. Again, I don't want to step into that hyper masculine toxic amount of suck it up and avoid feelings at all costs. That's not it. But I just give you the cold hard truth. And the cold hard truth is your feelings are valid. No question. We got to look at them and acknowledge them. What can we do to regulate through them and release them. But let's really focus on your behavior and slowly but surely by doing the tolerable steps, stepping into your biggest and greatest fears. And it ain't going to feel good. But if you do it with enough consistency, eventually you've got the evidence that holy fuck, I am who I say I am. I can have high standards for myself and I can execute and implement them and you're going to feel a lot better and you're going to become the man that you have absolutely dreamed of.

Michael Unbroken: Yeah, the phrase that sits in my mind every day. So when I created the change in my life, it was on the byproduct of just the most massive rock bottom. And I asked myself a question, I said, what are you willing to do to have the life that you want to have? And the answer was no excuses, just results. You walk in my bathroom right now in a dry erase marker giant on my mirror, it says, what are you willing to do to have the life that you want to have? And I read that every day. And I realized in the journey, and a lot of this came through the mentorship that I've had, the coaches I've worked with, the books I've read, the conversations like this, I realized ultimately confidence is only built through consistently doing incredibly uncomfortable things. That's it. That's the only way and it starts with one, and you pointed to it because like our mission, this conversation isn't to be like, Kaylor and I know more about manhood than you. ‘Cause we don't, we have coaches. You and I get mentored by a lot of the same men actually. And we're going down this path and we're just simply saying if we can do it, you can too. And I know that's like such a. thing that people say all the time Oh, I pulled myself up and you can't, but it's no, actually, because we know because we did it. We know because our clients are doing it. We know, because if you're willing to be 50 minutes into this conversation, listening to us and what you're not doing is being like, fuck these guys. The thing that you're going to take away from this is just a seed being planted. That's all this is just take the seed. Do something with it. And the timeline is negligible in a lot of ways, right? Because you and I both, one of the things that I think we have in common, we're nowhere remotely close to the life we want to have, not even remotely close. And we know that if we continue to take action on a long enough time, we can create that life. And my thesis has always been, if I don't get all my dreams until I'm 80 years old and the next day I die, at least I did it. And I think that's the mentality that men need to have, but they've spent so much time. In comparison in shame and guilt and trying to be what everyone else tells them to be where it's like real freedom is the moment that you put a line in the sand and you say, this is who I am and I'm not going to stop until I become that person.

Kaylor Betts: In sales. One of the things that a strategy that I think could be applicable here pertinent is instead of going out and trying to get yeses and conversions, just go out and try and get a certain amount of nose. So one of the things that I think, you asked me way earlier in the conversation, like, how have you stepped into this and been so fearless on instagram? First off, it didn't start overnight and I was incredibly scared. It didn't happen overnight. And I again, I looked for low risk opportunities, tolerable steps slowly but surely got myself out there. But I've honestly, I think one of the best things I've done is I like embrace the rejection. So, like I actually am more concerned when I'm not getting criticism. Like I could be so like, I could be so lucky really devoting my life to it and judge as grant and judge as grant if I can become like, if I can become, can become president, well off, it's just, you're so radically aligned and committed to your principles and values. And you don't waver on those that you're actually willing to get rejected and criticized. So, when I do get that hate, I like. I'll be honest, I wear it as like a badge of honor, at least that's how I view it. I'm like, man, I'm doing something and putting myself out there. And now I'm getting put in the camp of all the people I look up to the most because you can look at the movers and shakers out there right now the most elite of the elite, they get the most amount of hate. Look at history. Just look at the people you look up to in history. If they made a fucking impact on this world, they certainly got a ton of judgment and criticism. So, I think hate is privilege, if we're being really honest.

Michael Unbroken: Yeah, and I'll add this, the internet isn't real.

Kaylor Betts: Yeah.

Michael Unbroken: Social media isn't real. Dude, here's my thought, and this genuinely, and anyone is welcome to test this theory, by the way. I am six foot four, 220 pounds. I've done martial arts since I was 10 years old. I practice Muay Hai. I literally moved to Thailand to learn how to fight like ties, right? And I carry a gun. Just full disclosure, like I, I love my American rights and my amendments as a concealed carry member of this fine United States of America. The shit people tell me online, I swear to God killer. They will never tell me in person.

Kaylor Betts: Never. I've never had anyone say anything hateful to my face. I've never, I've had plenty of people come up to me and say, Oh, I follow your social media. I love your podcast and it's all good. I've had people nudge and point and you can tell they don't like me. No one has ever said anything to my face. Not once. In fact, I've had people that have said a lot of hate and I've seen it be acquaintances, they judge, they say something, and then I see them in person and they're like, Oh man, you're killing it. No, not even just crickets, the opposite. Oh man you're killing it. Whatever. What a lie. And I'm like, are we going to talk like, sorry. Are you going to tell me how you really feel? Are you going to be such a coward where you have the ability to say how you truly feel online, but yet you don't have the courage to say it to my face? That's how people are.

Michael Unbroken: And I was leading somewhere with that, so think about this for a second. If the reality of our lives is that people like you and I who get criticism quite, I get criticism every day. You're not, you didn't go to college. How dare you help people like whatever. And it's if we get that on a daily basis and yet we freely move about the world and no one challenges us in person, then why in the fuck are you so afraid to be yourself? Nobody cares, Kaylor. That's the reality of it. That's what I'm getting to. Cause I would love for these men who are listening to be able to do what we've done and just simply escape. That's it. We've just escaped the trappings of who it is that we're supposed to be because you and I both know we can freely move about the world and nobody gives a fuck that we even exist and there's freedom in that. And people are so stuck in the internet and obviously I wish we, we might need to extend this into a three hour conversation at some point, but I just, I want to end it here because I think this is really important. You and I and you can correct me if I'm wrong, but you and I are not men who are sitting here telling you this is the cold, hard fucking truth for any other reason that we know it's the cold, hard fucking truth because we have lived it. And we are living it. And we just want you to live it too. Because nothing is more sad to me than watching men be fucking victims.

Kaylor Betts: And men, we're not perfect. Like my, I don't have it all figured out or whatever. But again, it comes down to the fundamental principle of Are you aligning your behavior with your longterm values and principles and who you want to be in this world? That to me is like the audit that you can always do. And there's a yes or no answer. It's what am I, and the way in which I'm showing up is what I'm doing on a day-to-day basis is my actions and my decisions, are they bringing me closer to my highest quality of life? And highest potential or they distracted me farther away from my greatest good. That's really just the goal in question. And that's what you can always go back to. So we're not sitting here on our fucking high horse and being pretentious and looking down on other men and saying we have it all figured out. We're simply just saying, Hey, one thing we really have done really well that we think is fundamental to masculinity. And by the way, for most of our lives, we weren't doing this, but it's been just quite a few years that we have is to just get on that train of like actually showing up in this world in alignment with more so long term values and principles instead of showing up how we feel like showing up every day. And if we can get more men to come into that place, I think the world desperately needs stronger, healthier, masculine men who are doing what we're talking about. In fact, I actually think it might be an existential threat if we don't get more men to do that over the next few years.

Michael Unbroken: Agreed. And that's why I started this show, brother. Thank you so much for being here. I want people to be able to find you work with, they work with you if they need you. Where are you online? Where can they come and talk shit to you?

Kaylor Betts: Yeah, exactly. And you're welcome to, again, I embrace the hate.

Michael Unbroken: I'm trying to help you reach your goal. Exactly.

Kaylor Betts: So I'm at the Kaylor Betts on Instagram. We have other Instagram accounts, but like that's where you can find me, man. I got so much shit. To offer people, I'm just going to give my Instagram account. I'm going to keep it simple. Go to the Kaylor, K A Y L O R, Betts, B E T T S on Instagram.

You can check out that. You can check out the awaken winning podcast as well, too. It's on all platforms. Michael, we got to have you back on and we got to have another conversation about masculinity on my podcast. Cause dude, this was fucking epic.

Michael Unbroken: I'm more than happy to guys. Make sure you go check out Kaylor. This, what he does. is special and there's not a lot of outliers in a world full of clones. And so the reason why I wanted to have him on was so we could explore this together because we see the world in the same light. And even if you didn't see the world through the light that we do, doesn't mean you can't learn something. And I hope that you can shed that narrative that everyone has to think like you, for you to learn. Cause Lord knows I've learned some from people I do not like at all. And it has made my life. With that said, brothers, thank you for listening. Thank you for being here, Taylor. Thank you for showing up my friend.

And Until Next Time

Be Unbroken.

I'll See You Guys.